Here's a good one for you... The more I get into this country living/homestead mentality the more I begin to see ways to cut costs and do and make things for myself(ourselves). Only been countrified two years now so I still got lots to learn. My dog(German Shepard) will clean up around the stantion eating the feed the sloppy goats knock out of the bowl while we milk. It's a shell corn-oat-molasses mix. I buy 50# bags of high protein noname brand dog chow at Fleet Farm and mix in an egg at least for one feeding. He also gets tables scraps and disgusts everyone by snacking on goat pearls and an occasional cowpie (he picks out the corn in the cowpies). I was wondering if I could get something mixed at the mill that would meet his needs. Is it so important that he get meat(I assume there is some in that stuff I get) or is it just that he get the protein? He seems to like the goat feed and at 5 centavos a pound I would be way ahead. Call me cheap but I prefer to think of myself as thrifty.

-- Paul (pbray@tds.net), April 12, 2001

Answers

I am interseted in seeing what folks say about making your own. I will say, L-cheapo dog food brands have no meats, just corn, soy and meat by-products (fats and blood, i suppose). Mostly corn. However... corn is not good to feed to a "working" dog lie a sled dog or herding dog- even if its just and ingredient in dog food. It apparently gets into intestine and cuts into intestine walls while dog is doing strenous work. Can cause massive bleeding, from what I heard in Gary Paulson's Woodsong (good book, by the way)

-- Kevin in NC (vantravlrs@aol.com), April 13, 2001.

A canine's natural food is other animals.

Here's a taste of what's in commercial dog food

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), April 13, 2001.

My hubby works at a purina mill. I can attest that the stuff mentioned in Earthmamma link is NOT the case with purina (BTW, purina makes many of the 'store' brands). There are obviously various qualities of dog food on the market, but most of the purina stuff is grains, fats, and REAL meats. Some of the meat might be beef hearts, but that's fine in my book. Heck, I know people who eat plenty of organ meats. Other meats used are lamb quarters & whole fish (cat food). My hubby has NEVER seen bloody sawdust or hides used & the mill has a serious rodent & bug control program. If grains come in "buggy" the entire truckload is refused. I'm not saying that everyone should feed commercial food, but I am saying that these blanket statements about commercial dog foods are very misleading.

-- elle (eagle-quest@juno.com), April 13, 2001.

Of course what people choose to feed their animals or themselves is entirely their own business, but the fact remains there is much evidence and journalistic enquirey to display that commercial pet food is by and large not good food. Its basis is cheap grains, which is not what dogs' systems are biologically designed to metabolize. The remainder is mainly cheap animal by-products, and I don't mean just 'hearts', which would be an excellent food. Some of those by- products are certainly acceptable in their natural state,(raw and fresh), but like people food, the many steps involved in creating dry kibble (processed food) depletes entirely the life force the food had in the first place. Manufactured 'nutrients' are then added to attempt to make it appear from laboratory analysis that it is a 'complete diet'.

Companion animals have from half to three quarters as long a life as they did two to three decades ago, when people stopped feeding real food and starting feeding almost exclusively with commercial pet food. Veterinarians now consider skin problems commonplace, and a myriad of diseases/conditions are rampantly causing animal and owners agony and expense. (like people food, cheap food is not really cheap after all) Could be a coincidence I suppose......

For those interested, read from THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF NATURAL PET CARE, or FOODS PETS DIE FOR.... available here:

Books

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), April 13, 2001.

I have some friends that swear they have no problems and their dogs are vegetarians. I don't subscribe to that, though.

Grams fed her dogs and cats cooked 'leftovers' from butchering, plus let them have run of the barn for the grain and such. They did ok...

I have always made 'doggie bisquits' at home, with meat and broth, I suppose you could do that, too, but it would be a ton and a half of work. At least it is the way I make the bisquits.... Everything gets pureed together. Quite a pain.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), April 13, 2001.

As a breeder of great danes, we are on other forums about great danes and feeding is one of the things frequently discussed. One of the popular feeding regimens is known as BARF which stands for bones and raw food. People who feed their dogs this, give them RAW chicken, bones and all. It is the cooking of the bones that give dogs problems with choking and slicing their insides. The premise is that this is what food wild dogs and coyotes and wolves eat in the wild. They catch a rabbit or a mouse or whatever and they eat them bones and all. They also supplement this with raw beef, raw turkey necks and some vegetables as well. Most of the programs alternate meat days with veggie days or feed primarily meat and give a little veggies once or twice a week. One of the people that bought a puppy from us feeds her dog this diet and swears by it. Her dog is healthy so I can't complain. He loves his food and is never finicky about eating. He also has beautiful white teeth because chomping on the cartilage and bones as he eats them keeps his teeth "brushed". To find out more about this feeding program, just type in BARF on the internet and I know you will find lots of info. I have to say that I do like the idea of feeding this way. It makes sense to me. If I can convince hubby to do this we may convert but since he is the one that feeds our eight great danes I don't think I should insist on how they are fed because the work would be his to prepare their food. For those of you that raise your own chickens you may find that this is more cost effective then feeding them prepared dog foods.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), April 13, 2001.

We have 5 dogs, from 4yr. to 13yr., three of them are in the 80 to 120 lb. range, the two little ones around 50lbs. I'm extremely pleased to read elle's post re: Purina foods, because we do feed them Purina One when we're out of meat or just feeling lazy. But for the most part they get the raw stuff, chicken, beef, venison and vegies and fruits. They love raw meat, bones and all. Our Cane Corso (that's a small mastiff breed) will BEG for bananas and apples.

None of them ever needs teeth cleaning, munching the bones takes care of that. The 13yr. old Collie/Shepherd mix acts like he's 2 most of the time, although in the last year he has begun to slow down a bit.

Most vets will tell you the raw diet is a death sentence, but I have met a few who endorse it. Our experience has been:

Take the dogs to the vet for their check-up. Vet claims they're in excellent health, great teeth, no problem. We tell the vet what they eat and he/she freaks and tells us how awful it is. Then why are they so healthy??? The most common response is, so far we've just been lucky. I don't buy that. Now we finally have a vet who says if our critters are this healthy, we must be doing something right.

Kinda strayed from answering the question, didn't I? For us, this way of feeding is pretty cheap because we live in the boonies and can get plenty of cheap meat and bones for them. And that's for 5 dogs. With just one German Shedhair, you should be able to get away really cheap, especially since your goats are so helpful. :-)

-- Jorja Hernandez (jorja@color-country.net), April 13, 2001.

I have always fed scraps to my dogs,feed dry dog food to but they get leftovers every night to. My shelti lived to almost 18 when her kidneys gave out, our 100lb american stafashire is almost 14 which is old for a dog of her size, and my moms dog [ she cooked dinner for him every night from the day he turned 10]lived to 21 when she had him put to sleep.pet food is like pre packaged food, loses some nutrition and a varied diet helps make up for that.Just my opinion.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), April 13, 2001.

I BARF and swear by it! but I know that some people don't like the idea of feeding raw bones and vegetables/fruit to their dogs, including all guts and heads of butchered animals.

If you are considering making your own and do not want to feed raw, pressure cook all your bones until they are mush, add ground grains (wheat, corn etc.) and to up the protien add soy flour or pellets. Throw in fruit and vegetables, including pumpkin or squash of some kind, mix together and feed :) if you prefer to feed a dry kibble, then smear this concoction on a cookie sheet and bake in a slow oven until dry, crumble.

Since each dog breed has its own special requirements, you need to do some research.

My dogs favorite is Poosert! I find him under the rabbit cages dinning away!

-- westbrook (westbrook@qnet.com), April 13, 2001.

As someone else said, what you do is your business, but consider a few things first. 1) A healthy animal is better able to respond to illnesses and to fight them off. 2) How well do you digest corn and other grains? If you're like most people, they have a laxative effect that sometimes doesn't quite complete the course of digestive processes it's supposed to... 3) Take a good look at your dog's bowel movements and you'll see a lot of the grain coming out almost intact. This means that no nutritional value is being derived from the food. Let's face it a dog's system was designed to handle "meat" and "meat by-products". Like any other living organism peak health and performance are dependent on correct nutrition. 4) I'd like to believe that back to homesteading people realize that a dog is more than a warm floor rug that the kids pet now and then.

-- Donna M. Davis-Prusik (Seven9erkilo@knoxcomm.net), April 16, 2001.

You would be surprised what meat lockers pitch into the bin for the rendering truck to take!! Most rural lockers are DELIGHTED to see local people drive up and take the scraps for their pets. My locker people are actually disappointed when I get there right after the truck leaves. I haven't yet got an arrangement to "save" scraps--but I'm not so sure they would do that... (MAKE NOTE TO SELF: "Donna: Check locker to see if they will save meat.") The first time I went they hauled about eight pounds of liver, kidney, etc. out of the cast off barrel and kept dumping it into a plastic bag that was almost impossible for me to carry out (I have to walk with elbow crutches so I already had my hands full!). My husband HAD A COW when I got home! Hates liver--can't even be in the house when it's cooking (you should have heard his comments when he smelled my homemade Worchestshire sauce cooking on the stove! But now he won't touch the bottled stuff!). I cleaned the innards and cut off as much fat as I could then dumped it all in my 6 Quart crockpot (By the way, I use my large crock pot for canning too!) and it smelled the house up all day and night--the dogs became my rapt audience. When it had cooked to almost a mush I smashed it more with a hand masher, cooled it down and added a little extra broth to cook up added rice and oats. Removed it after all cooked up and cooled to handling temperature. Then I mixed in masa harina, wheat flour, plain flour. Then added powdered garlic and crumbled Brewers yeast and garlic tablets (flea and tick repelling qualities),home picked/dried carrot greens and mint leaves (breath freshener, etc.), and half a bottle of linoleic acid (extra vitamins and coat conditioning),and powdered milk. After it was a large manageable but unwieldly dough I stored it in the fridge and each day rolled and cut batches out and made over two months worth of dog treats... I wouldn't recommend doing this---although you could--- to make dog kibble. You have lots of other things to do. But meat scraps from a locker are a boon! The last time I went I just missed the truck, and the locker attendant brought out FREE, wrapped packages of liver, tongue and heart that were slaughter parts their last customer refused to take! I crock-potted the heart (too much raw cholesterol for my husband and I), and when it was done I drained the meat added some water, a healthy dose of red-wine vinegar, quantity of salt and leftover Greek seasoning salt I was trying to get rid of and cooked it for about another 6 hours. When I drained the juice and the heart cooled, I cut it into strips and laid them on a cooky rack on top of the stove. The next day they were almost totally dried. The dogs love them as special treats--and I admit that they are pretty tasty.

-- Donna M. Davis-Prusik (Seven9erkilo@knoxcomm.net), April 16, 2001.