Has anybody use the Konica Hexar yet? Are lens really 100% compatible? I was thinking if I am going to spend $650 on the new M winder. I might as well spend additional $600 to get the Konica Hexar which has the motor winder with all the extra features and is compatible with "all"??? the M lens.

Please comment,

Thanks,

James L.

-- James L. (sigpe57@yahoo.com), April 24, 2001

Answers

Had mine for about a year now. Wonderful camera. The M7. Complete compatibility with Leica lenses with same exceptions as M6, including screw-mount with adaptors, and any other lens in LTM with adaptors. (some of the bodies can be found with rangefinders "off" at infinity, or vertically misaligned, but this is irrespective of which brand of lens is used). Definite "buy signal" on this one, but get just the body and skip the "kit".

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), April 24, 2001.

Bought the kit and sold the lens, making my net cost pretty low. No focusing problems with mine. I second Jay's buy signal.

-- Bob (robljones@home.com), April 24, 2001.

James:

Thanks for the post! I am currently consternating over the same issue, so I'll be interested in what you decide and why! Here is my difficulty: The hexar w/motor is cheaper, smaller, lighter, loads faster and has AE capability, higher synch speed and higher shutter speed -- advantages Hexar. BUT, you cannot advance w/o the motor, it has a smaller rf window, not as bright of finder, takes a unique battery so camera and winder will not operate w/o power, and many units seem to ship with the rangefinders out of adjustment (which begs the question does it bump out during shipment - and hence, during normal use as well - or is Konica's QA so bad that it left the factory that way?) -- all advantages for the M w/motor. So it seems to me it boils down to "reliability and stealth" vs "cost and some really nice features"... I'd sure like to know from others how their Hexar holds up when used hard.

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), April 24, 2001.

My thoughts on some of these issues:

you cannot advance w/o the motor

True, but there isn't much reason to, either. I've never missed manual-wind on my F5, for instance. This isn't a silent camera though; if you need silence in any given situation you'll do better with your M.

it has a smaller rf window, not as bright of finder

It has less magnification, certainly, but this is a good thing if you wear glasses. I used to have a really rough time with glasses and my M4P, but so far no problems with the Hexar at all.

I wouldn't worry about finder brightness. I've heard from those that own both that the finder is about as bright as the M3. I haven't had any problems in low light, but then, the Hexar finder isn't prone to flare the way the M6 is...

takes a unique battery so camera and winder will not operate w/o power

It actually takes two unique batteries. They're lithium, and seem to have a life of something like 10 years at a cost of $11 for the pair (Office Max). They're supposed to last for 140 rolls of film. This could be an issue, which is why I bought an extra pair that live in my camera bag, but overall I'm not concerned. I'm used to my F5 though, which is not only battery-bound, it's a battery hog!

many units seem to ship with the rangefinders out of adjustment

This strikes me as a more serious concern, as I discovered this problem with my camera after buying it on eBay for an incredible price (note: "full warranty" doesn't mean the same thing as "full US warranty" -- mine could have been sent back to the manufacturer for repair only, apparently). I had to spend $175 for a CLA which included fixing the infinity focus and aligning the RF image vertically. Worst case: budget it in to the purchase price -- I did, and I still got the kit for over $300 less than B&H sells them for, after factoring in the repair.

Note that Jay offered some great instructions on fixing the RF problems yourself. They almost worked for me, but I decided to spend the money rather than risk damaging the RF...

I'm loving mine, but when I can afford it I'll buy an M6 to keep it company -- it's hard to beat a silent all-manual camera for some jobs.

Of course, all this is IMHO. YMMV. And all that. -- Derek Zeanah

-- Derek Zeanah (derek@zeanah.com), April 24, 2001.

The eccentric that adjusts the infinity point in the Leica rangefinder is *very* tight, you really need to get a leveraged grip on a driver to move it. The Hexar's adjustment is much easier, and so I would think (through logic, not experience) more susceptible to getting out of whack. When I bought my Hexar body (used) the RF was off at infinity, and after the 10-minute task of recalibrating it, I placed one drop of clear nail polish (*not crazy glue*!!!!)where the adjuster wheel meets the anchor bracket. Neither the Leica nor the Hexar's infinity adjustment is likely to be affected by moderate bumps and shocks, only by constant vibration such as in an airplane. My Hexar has now been on 4 transatlantic flights in the Domke F5XB inside my Kelty rucksack, in the overhead bin, and the RF is still dead-on. The vertical alignment is another issue altogether. Many have reported of Leicas dropped on their heads getting bumped out of vertical alignment (as well as some M6TTLs coming out of the box that way)and I wouldn't suspect the Hexar would be better in that regard. But the Leica rangefinder follower pivot-point is hole through a solid plate that forms the "roof" of the shutter box, whereas the Hexar shutter box roof has a cut-out area and the rangefinder pivot- point is somewhere up inside the top plate, allowing any upward or downward pressure on the follower wheel/arm to lever the whole assembly. It is possible to look through the viewfinder, with the lens off, and push up on the follower wheel and watch the rangefinder images displace vertically (not so with a Leica). My Hexar had a very tiny bit of vertical misaligment and I cured it with a little "massage" to the follower arm, but I wouldn't advise anyone to do that, it was a foolish thing to try and that it worked and didn't break anything was just dumb luck. "Used hard" is a subjective notion; my Hexar hasn't been dropped off the Eiffel Tower or dragged behind a bus by its strap, but it hasn'y been pampered either. It feels just as durable as an M6...take that any way you want. I wouldn't want to face off either of those against a Nikon F in a beater contest.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), April 24, 2001.

What's a good price as of 4/24/01 in the U.S? Both U.S. or import model.

Thanks,

James L.

-- James L. (sigpe57@yahoo.com), April 24, 2001.

What's a good price as of 4/24/01 in the U.S? Both U.S. or import model.

That depends on how much of a risk-taker you are. I bought mine (the kit with body, 50mm lens, and flash) on eBay 2-3 weeks ago for $1,150 using the "buy it now" option. It was new, but with a questionable history: the box indicated that it was both a Demo and refurbished camera. The story was that Konica sold all returned Demo cameras as refurbished -- whether that's true or not I don't know.

I asked later and learned the guy I bought it from bought it from Kenmore Camera for his own personal use, then decided to sell it instead. This is part of why I found the deal I did. Search on eBay for current offerings (the best deals seem to be listed as "buy it now" options, and can disappear quickly).

When deciding whether to go this route or not, consider that my camera had a "worldwide warranty," which means you can get it serviced out of the USA if you bought it outside of the USA, otherwise you can send it to Japan for warranty repair. I chose to pay $175 for a CLA in Atlanta, instead.

Next best option (or better option, depending) is B&H Photo: kit costs $1599, body alone is $1199. The lens that comes with the kit actually seems quite good, so if you don't already own a 50mm Summicron...

-- Derek Zeanah

-- Derek Zeanah (derek@zeanah.com), April 24, 2001.

By the way, James, the camera shop Man Shing Photo Supples in Hong Kong sells the Leica Motor M (non-gray item) for HK$ 3,600, which is about US$ 460.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), April 25, 2001.

James, this is relevant to your question: http://www.nemeng. com/leica/index.shtml#033b.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), April 25, 2001.

I've owned my Hexar RF for over a year and I love it. People look at my photos and gasp. That's the payoff. They didn't do that with my EOS and now my EOS is a paperweight. I don't miss the auto-everything-TTL Flash-zoom lens world I was living in one bit. Honestly, I even like the mistakes I make. It took a while to get used to the Range Finder, but as for the Konica vs. Leica debate I think it's instructive to find out what you can buy with the nearly $1000 you'll save by going with Konica. You could buy a great Leica lens in pretty good used condition. I did. I bought the 28mm f2.8 Elmarit and it's simply stunning. I also have a 90mm Leica (skinny) f2.8 tele and I recently bought a Voightlander 15mm heliar. The 50mm Konica lens is very, very good. The one missing piece is a 35mm f1.4 Summilux pre-ASPH and I'm looking on Ebay for one nearly everyday. The biggest beef I have with the Konica is the flash. Konica stopped short of making a true Leica killer here. If they can make great lenses...it just doesn't make sense to me that they couldn't get Metz or someone to do a killer M compatible flash that would be as intelligent as the camera itself.

Don't get me wrong, the flash is adequate. It's a decent fill flash unit, but the batteries die alarmingly fast...there's no tilt function and about 20% of the flash photos I take seem to be over or under exposed. I've taken to using my P&S Yashica T4 Super in heavy flash situations. It's more consistent.

Ruggedness. I've taken my camera all over the U.S. in my Motorcycle and it looks new. I've shot what seem like hundreds of rolls and I'm still on the first battery. I've changed lenses hundreds of times and they all still snap on smartly. Even the 15mm one with the adapter.

The pictures never belie a 'Konica-ness' . They look like Leica shots. Especially with the Leica glass. I'm hooked.

Film loading, rewinding and focusing are as easy as they should be. I would love to have a Leica, but every now and then I need full auto. I also do use a motor drive occasionally. I recently shot a friend's wedding and I was glad not to have rewind manually and I could reload quickly. I have no trouble focusing in low light.

Also, I have a Kameraleder everyday case and I love it.

I recently went shopping for a used M. I like the M6 and the M3 and I thought they might make great second cameras. I wish Leica would come out with an M7...I bet they're working on a digital one...or one with AF...or one with both...but until then the M6 is just too antiquated for my taste. Example: I recently used the 1/4000th shutter. The M6 has a little better feel overall, but to me nothing feels better than a Konica RF with a Leica lens that I'm essentially getting as a bonus.

Happy shooting.

-tt

-- Troy Torrison (ttorrison@kb.com), April 25, 2001.

How does the Hexar-lenses compare to their Leica equivalent 28 mm Elmarit 2.8, the Summicron 50 mm 2.0 and the 90 mm Elmarit 2.8? A tricky question (real heresy), but bevare I havn't mentioned the new Summicrons as standard of comparison.

-- Hans Sode-Madsen (sode@image.dk), June 26, 2001.

On another note... Has anyone tried to add the new Leica 1.25x magnifier to the Konica Hexar RF? It would be pretty neat if it worked. Focusing accuracy would definitely go up with longer lenses.

Sven

-- Sven S. (ssampson@inreach.com), November 16, 2001.

The Hexar is a must have, if you want only one body. I have no problem coupling any M lens with it, and the Konica 50 mm lens is still sitting in its plastic. The M Body, however, is a fine instrument that is silent, tight, and foolproof. Also, the TTL flash feature tips the scales towards having both. I have found the metering to be equally accurate when comparing both cameras.

-- Leland Deane (lmdmd@att.net), December 24, 2001.

James,

I looked at a Hexar RF but decided not to buy, mostly because I have too many M cameras already. In its favor, the Hexar RF has some neat features missing in the M6 TTL, including: top shutter speed 1/4000 sec, top flash sync speed 1/125 sec, aperture priority AE, and of course a built-in mini-motor. If you're an M user, you will note that the Hexar RF is considerably noisier than any Leica M. The Hexar RF does NOT have TTL flash metering as does the M6 TTL if that's of any importance to you.

These features were almost enough to tempt me, but not quite (may with 1/250 sec sync speed I might have gone for it). As far as the putative incompatibility of the Hexar RF with Leica M lenses, you can read about it in Erwin Puts website (see the section on non-Leica lenses). Apparently to flange to film distance of the Hexar is about 0.09 mm (if I remember correctly) different from that of the Leica M models, which he says could lead to a slight focussing error.

Many people dispute him and say this difference, even if it exists, is inconsequential. I think you can read his report and the comments of others and make up your own mind. In addition, Leica is apparently coming out with the M6AE (or some such name), you can read about on another thread in the Leica usenet. It may have some of the features of the Konica Hexar RF, if you can wait.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), December 24, 2001.

Apparently to flange to film distance of the Hexar is about 0.09 mm (if I remember correctly) different from that of the Leica M models, which he says could lead to a slight focussing error.

I gave a reference on another thread, it turns out that this measured difference is the result of a difference in how the film sits on the pressure plate. If measured with the film in place, it is the same. If measured to the pressure plate, it is different.

Also, it was always interesting that despite the reported difference, no-one ever saw a difference with Leica lenses on the Hexar RF.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), December 24, 2001.

Jeff

Erwin did see a difference, when he looked carefully. This is the relevant section from his report. You may choose to believe it or not, but this is what he says.

FROM ERWIN'S WEBSITE "But you cannot use the Hexanon lens on a Leica body: a collimator check showed that the Hexanon lens has a focus plane that differs from the Leica lens by 0.09mm. Is that important?

The discussion on the Lug about the Hexar body/Leica lens compatibility dismissed small differenes in the area of less that half a mm as irrelevant, because some uses could not detect any difference when comparing different lens/body combinations.

The truth is this: a did a test on the bench and focussed carefully on maximum image quality. Then I used a micrometer to defocus by 0.03mm (which is quite small). In the image the loss of contrast was very evident, but resolution at least at the lower frequencies (around 40 lp/mm) did not suffer. What did suffer was the edge sharpness.

If you were to do your own testing and looking at the negatives with an 8-times magnifier, you would not se any drop in resolution (beyond the detection capability of the eye at that magnification). But at a larger magnification you begin to see it quite clearly."

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), December 24, 2001.

Well given that some recent reports have shown that when properly measured (taking into account the difference in where the film itself lies rather than the pressure plate) there is no difference, I can't see how this could be true. And the fact that no users have found anything significant in testing, it seems that there is some discrepancy with Puts' report.

Speaking from personal experience and thousands of negatives, I haven't seen any discrepancy using Leica lenses on the Hexar RF. But I'm a photographer, not a marketing guy or tester, so hey, what do I know?

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), December 24, 2001.

Jeff. You could be right. I'm not arguing the merits of Erwin's analysis. I'm not a tester either (and I'm certainly not a marketer). I decided not to buy a Hexar-RF mainly because of the noise. It had nothing to do with the "0.09 mm".

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), December 24, 2001.

People mentioned about the infinity tab on the lens not alingning correctly. But does this affect the sharpness of the picture? Or is it just the barrel reading error?

-- Chee KC (kcchee@flashmail.com), April 08, 2002.

Hi there

I bought an ex demo RF kit about 18 months ago and have been very pleased with it. I also have a M6 and M3 with various Leitz lens and some of the excellent Voigtlander/cosina lens in M adaptors.

I have had no problems with focus errors and my slides and negatives cannot be distinguished from each other. Slides show even illumination , except the 15 mm which has a degree of vignetting and are very sharp all the way across.

I have not done any tests as I believe that providing the results are acceptable , who cares if there is some slight softening around the edges. at the end of the day the object is to take pictures and mine really stand out compared with the modern SLR pics I have taken.

My advice is go for it The hexar is a real gem. The batteries last very well , I have heard that the battery life of the M7 is abysmal!

The .6 viewfinder is in some ways better than the .72 of my M6. I can use my 24 mm lens without an additional finder as the edge of the frame is about equal to the 24 mm angle of view. With the 28 mm on the hexar you get a good sight picture but with the same lens on the M6 the frame edges can be difficult to spot if your eye is off centre.

I like Leica, am a big fan having owned used and abused thier products over the years and I can happily recommend the Hexar as a camera thats in the same class , with style, relaibility, quality etc.

Dont hesitate go for it you wont be disappointed !!

John Gadsby ( UK)

-- John Gadsby (Thegadsby@aol.com), September 16, 2002.

The only thing that really annoys me in the Hexar is the longer time lag between pressing the shutter button and the actual exposure, compared with my old Leicas. It is the same problem of the Hasselblad XPan(I think they must share same parts).The viewfinder is great for me - I'm a glasses-wearer. But... I always use the Noctilux on the Leicas...

-- António Pedro Ferreira (apf_57@hotmail.com), September 26, 2002.

Heck-

I wound up selling my M2 and M6 Classic. Kept the Leica glass... guess what body I'm using.. yep, the Hexar RF.

I'm a wedding shooter- the faster reloading, 1/4000th shutter speed (I typically load Delta 3200 in it and can even shoot on a sunny day!), auto rewind, and AE lock are really my big 'likes' on this camera.

My only big dislike is that there is no pc sync socket on it... so if I have a flash in the hot shoe I can't use my pocketwizards and remote lights. (I typically double light everything).

I also find the rangefinder is "delicate" compared to an 'M'... I dropped the RF about 2-3 feet onto grass and the rangefinder was WAY off... Cost $173 to fix. Sigh. I DO miss the 'Passport' ;)

But, this is the body I use with a 35 Summilux (pre-Asph), 50/1.4 Canon LTM, 90 Tele-Elmarit, 15 Voigtlander, and 20/5.6 Russar. As well as other mixed LTM lenses/adapters.

-- Bob Keene/Keene Vision Photography (kabob3@attbi.com), November 21, 2002.