What's a good second body to go with and M6...don't say another leica because I don't have the money for it....so any other RF that i could either use with a wide or a 90mm. And a recomendation on a wide angle would be appreciated too...i'm looking to spend no more than $1300 on the body and lens. Used is good too. eric

-- eric (grigoriane@yahoo.com), May 13, 2001

Answers

Used is pretty much the only way you can go. Two models come to mind that will satisfy your criteria: Leica or Minolta CL (same camera) and the Leica M4-2. The CL in good working order but user cosmetics will run you around $400-500 (higher figure for one with "Leica" nameplate); a good-user M4-2 around $700-750. A black Canadian 35/2 Summicron or a Voigtlander Cosina 35/1.7 would be decent choices in a wide-angle (you didn't specify how wide), and the "thin" 90 Tele- Elmarit-M in a 90mm (note the Elmar-C for the CL will not focus accurately on your M6). You should be able to stay within your budget with the M4-2 (no meter but same rangefinder and body shell as the M6)and either of those lenses with careful shopping. The CL might let you get both lenses, so that's a consideration.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 13, 2001.

Eric:

You might want to wait for the Bessa T... It is supposed to be out later this year, and is essentially a Bessa R with the M mount. The Voightlander lenses are supposed to be coming out with the M mount at the same time.

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), May 13, 2001.

Don't forget that the Bessa T has no finder, limiting its appeal a great deal in my opinion. I can't imagine going out for a shoot with 3 or 4 (expensive) finders to go with my 3 or 4 lenses, and the fussing required to get all set up after each lens change. Voigtlander COULD make the absolute perfect budget second body for Leica M users if they choose to, but as of now, that camera does not exist yet. Maybe a used Konica could be had for your budget or a Minolta CLE + lens might be in your range. The main problem with the CLE is basically no parts these days. The CL doesn't work that great with a 90mm, and has no finder for a wide.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), May 13, 2001.

Yes, I don't get the Bessa T at all (and I won't be getting one!). Not only do you need to focus and view through separate finders but you have to meter using the LEDs on the body. 3 separate operations in 3 separate areas. Well, they came out with the (IMO) silly Bessa L and then followed with the R, so perhaps the T will be followed by the Bessa M or some such clever designation for the M-version of the Bessa R, which (again IMO) they should have started and ended with, I think they'd have sold twice as many as all their other models together. Drop in the AE/electronic shutter from their (Nikon FE-10) other SLR, and they'd have a killer lineup.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 14, 2001.

If you need a diferent propose camera, a SLR with a several X´s zoom and macro capability, will make a nice diferent camera, but if you need something like a leica but not so expensive, well you already have a M6 with ligth meter, so a M3 for the 90 or a M4P that is very similar in their finder to the M6 can make a good choice, used Leicas cameras and lenses are for sure a good investment as working equipment. Good luck chossing.

-- R Watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), May 14, 2001.

For the money you mention, a M3 plus the lens seems to be the best choice (for me, at least). Now regarding the wide lens, I think that the previous advises are sound enough for a guide. Only that you didn't say how wide . . . And though you stated "don't say another Leica" most of us seem to think that you do have the money for it, given the amount you say you plan to expend. I hope it will work. Best luck and regards, Eric.

-Iván

-- Ivan Barrientos (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), May 14, 2001.

I looked at the leica CL today...nice camera...and i would definetly consider it. But the guy at store wanted $1,350 for the Leica CL and a 35 2.8. I notice it sells much cheaper on ebay, and i also wanted something wider. 24 or a 28. But considering i want to buy something in the next two days i won't be able to take a look at ebay. Another camera like you guys have said is the voigtlander R. It definetly is no leica but it sure is cheap. too bad the new 28mm won't be out before i plan on buying it. So i think these two are what i'm considering. thanks for all the advice. eric

-- eric (grigoriane@yahoo.com), May 15, 2001.

Hi Eric

Did you consider the Minolta CLE? A very nice small & light camera - With a little luck they can be optained very resonable, (I bought a really nice one with 28/40/90/flash for US 1200. ) The finder is really nice for the 28 mm, and OK for the 90mm. And TTL flash and AE is handsome some times

This complete outfit can "disaper" in a jackets pockets

-- Kaj Froling (saluki@mail.tele.dk), May 15, 2001.

I recommend a Minox GT-E

It is a very light weight viewfinder camera, with super sharp 35mm/f2.8 multicoated Leitz designed Minoxar lens.

Minox GmbH is a subsidiary of Leica Camera Group of Solm

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), May 15, 2001.

It seems there really is only a Leica CL and or a Minolta CLE that will accept M-lenses. The CL with a 35mm/40mm/50mm or 90mm works fine and the body should be about $600-700. With the 40mm Rokkor it should be less than $1000. The 40mm Rokkors are superb and go for only $200-300. The CLE is a great camera too, but usually goes for more and it has an electronic shutter - you might have a difficulty maintaining it in the future. Otherwise you could get a Minilux or a Minox (which is REALLY small) if you want something different. For about the same price as the CL with Rokkor you could get a nice Bessa-R with another Voigtlander lens - you can put the Bessa-R lenses on your M if you have an adapter, but not vice versa.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), May 15, 2001.

An M4-P or M4-2 body are about the most approachable on the used market for a second. The CL is more compact and quite nice if you can deal with the somewhat funky film loading setup. A good user M4-2/P can be found for $600 sometimes.

The Bessa T is a wacky beast but could be an alternative. As much as I like the Minolta CLE, parts are non-existent and most of the people I know who've had them have had troubles with the electronics in recent years. A Konica Hexar-RF body might be just barely findable at the top of the price range you are looking for.

-- Godfrey DiGiorgi (ramarren@bayarea.net), May 15, 2001.

BTW: Minox is no longer under Leica control. Leica still owns a substantial portion of Minox, but Minox is an independent company again, purchased largely through the agency of a wealthy investor who is also a Minox enthusiast.

Godfrey

-- Godfrey DiGiorgi (ramarren@bayarea.net), May 15, 2001.

I'd get a used Leica M body (an M2, M2-4, M3, M4, or M4-P) (or a used Hexar RF if you can find one at the right price) and add a used Leica or new Voigtlander screw mount 35mm lens. You should be able to find an M4-2 and lens for $1,300.

I'd avoid investing the money on any components that are not fully interchangeable (eg. a fixed lens subcompact, or body that won't) accept your existing M len) until you fill out your M system.

Good luck!

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@att.net), May 15, 2001.

I think it was Mr. Prager who suggested I check out www.keh.com

A very good idea.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), May 16, 2001.

THE KONICA HEXAR RF.

-- Richard BROWN (rubyvalentine@earthlink.net), August 03, 2001.

Screw mount Leicas, Leica clones, and the Bessa-R make pretty good second bodies, thats how I do it. Lenses are upward compatible, and you don't need to have every lens in your stable mount on the second body to make it work. My "core" set of interchangeable lenses (LTM) include the Voigtlander 15mm Heliar, Kobalux 28mm, and the current 50mm Summicron in screw mount. This gives me enough interchangeability to make the IIIf work as a second body, but I'm seriously considering a Bessa-R for this role.

I wish I had something a bit better than the Kobalux for 28mm, though. Whenever I want this focal length on the M6, I always find myself mounting the Tri Elmar.

-- Joe Buechler (jbuechler@toad.net), August 03, 2001.