I am on the brink of purchasing my first Leica set-up. I have decided on the M6TTL, 0.85 camera in chrome. The lens will be the 50/2 or the 35/2 and I'll make that decision by Wednesday.

I plan on ordering from New York Camera & Video in Pennsylvania (www.nycv.com). The M6 is $1850 before rebate and is a Passport edition. Anyone have experience with them?

Because I am not sure that I will be completely enamoured with the RF system I want to protect it in case I need to re-sell it down the road. The M combination bag, small version looks like a nice option. Any thoughts on it? And what about the Leica (n)eveready case?

The price of the lenses are the same in black or chrome. I know that chrome weighs a little more. Any reason to pick one over the other besides cosmetics?

Any last minute bits of advice for me?

And finally, I would like to thank all of you on this site who have been very helpful by answering the many queries submitted. I have learned a lot. Thanks Tony!

-- Tim Kamke (tjkamke@excelimaging.com), June 04, 2001

Answers

When all is said and done, you probably shouldn't thank anyone; you should probably blame and ultimately loathe anyone who convinces you to spend so much money!! :-)

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@alaska.net), June 04, 2001.

I have two small bits of advice which of course you are free to ignore. First, I don't think that you can go wrong with either of the lenses that you are considering, both are my favorites. Pick one and live with it for awhile. It is easy to get caught up in the "newness" of another system and be swayed and enticed by advertiser's broachers, but you can get a lot of mileage out of either of those two lenses, so be patient and really get to know the one you choose. After a bit of time, you will know which lens to get next... because of YOUR experience, not other people's opinions.

Second, since this is a new type of camera for you, I recommend "total immersion" to get the operation down. Use only the Leica for awhile, and live with both the advantages as well as the limitations of a rangefinder camera, until it becomes second nature. I was in the military and when departing on yet another 1 year remote tour of an Asian country I left all of my Nikons in the U.S. and carried only a Leica M6 for one year. Upon my return, the SLRs were hard to use, and now years later the M6 is still the first camera I grab out of my cache of dozens of bodies.

Good luck in your pursuit of Leica satisfaction.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), June 04, 2001.

Al has just said it all about starting with a leica; be prepare to get adicted to it.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), June 04, 2001.

To your specific points: 1. Have you actually handled the 0.85 with a 35mm lens? The 35 framelines are quite difficult to see without glancing to and fro, and nearly impossible to use if you wear glasses. If you're only going to have one M body (hah!)I would strongly urge you to consider an 0.72. 2. There is very little variability in the price of new USA passport equipment so deal with a reputable store, perhaps locally if possible. 3. Re: the M Combi bag. Given the price, you may want to keep *it* protected, in another bag ; ) 4. Re: the ever-ready case. With the Leica's take-the-baseplate-off- and-hold-it-somewhere while you fiddle with loading it, the everready case is *especially* despiseable. You'll use it exactly once. 5. Chrome vs black lenses: cosmetics, nothing more. If you ever get a black body, you'll rue having bought chrome lenses. The reverse- combo somehow looks unesthetic.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), June 04, 2001.

Tim: Jay is, of course, right, as usual. For a one-body system, the .72 finder is the one to go with. The 35mm and 50mm are the two most popular on this forum, so the advice you get here will be split down the middle. Having said that, if I were to be told that I was going to be sent somewhere to take an important shot, but they wouldn't say where or what, and I could take only one lens, it would be the 35mm Summicron.

The outer metal shell of the chrome lenses are brass; for the black ones, aluminum. If you drop a brass one and distort the threaded part that receives filters, it can be tapped back into shape. I've seen aluminum (Nikon) lenses crack when that was tried. But what do I buy? Black, except for my vintage Summicrons. I just make it a point not to drop Leica gear. Enjoy!

Regards,

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), June 04, 2001.

New York Camera and Video of Quakertown, PA is a reliable and trustworthy dealer. I have bought two M6 cameras from them. I can't see how you would have a problem, from my own positive experiences. As for the issue of the case, I wouldn't buy an eveready case, or at least, if I did (and I have), I would use only the bottom part and leave the top part off, except for when the camera is packed away. Good alternatives in the way of this "half case' are available from Kameraleder of Los Angeles (www.kameraleder.com) and also from a dealer on ebay based in Rome (as in Italy). He sells on ebay under the name "umana" and he offers a very nice quality of half case in leather. Surprisingly, Leica's version--the half-case portion of their eveready case(s) is probably the cheapest. Keep in mind, a case tends to get in the way as much as protect the camera, and is particularly a nuisance when you are doing your film changing juggle in the field. I have just about stopped using mine altogether. As for chrome vs. black--I think they both look good-- your taste preference should decide, If weight and cost are not factors. Since you are buying a chrome body, a chrome lens looks nice. As for a bag, I recommend something not made by Leica or any other manufacturer with a reputation for theftworthy products. I use a Domke F6 in dull army-green canvas; it is about the size and shape of a cartridge case. Try a camping shop or a surplus store for a servicable but unobtrusive bag.

-- Christopher Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), June 04, 2001.

Hi,

If I were to get the 50/2 then I would get the 0.85; conversely, if I were to get the 35mm/2 ASPH, then I would opt for the 0.72. Personally, I like the .85 better (but not with the 35mm/2). To me the bag is irrelevant. As for last minute advice: (1) If they have an Abramson shutter release check it out. It cost around $10 and if an excellent option. (2) Initially loading the film can be a huge pain. A friend of mine who is a pro told me to make sure you load the first shot or two with the base plate off so you can see the film advancing, and then put the base plate back. You still get 36 shots on the roll. It helps. Obviously, you know if you have done in right if the re-wind crank turns went you advance to the next picture. (3) As for the lenses as far as I am concerned- the less weight the better. I would stay with the black. (4) Really watch out for backlit situations if you have not used the M6. It took me time to recognize it and open up the lens. Every now and then I make a stupid mistake and pay for it. (5) Leica lenses can take you to another level. You may only get a few great shots in your first few rolls. But it will "wow" you. The camera rewards your success and penalizes your error. It can be an expensive toy (addiction).

Best of luck,

Eddie

-- Edward Steinberg (es323@msn.com), June 04, 2001.

Isn't the internet great. Where else can you give and get free advise from total strangers on how to spend a months or more wages on a camera. My advise is very simple, try to handle the equipment before buying it. Too many first time Leica buyers here about the stuff on the web and buy it mail order without ever touching a camera. I personally didn't care for the .85 finder, and found it useless with 35mm lines and I don't even wear glasses.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), June 04, 2001.

I agree the .72 viewfinder version is more versitile.

Also, my very first roll with my M6 TTL was not wound correctly and I shot the entire roll with the film not advancing! Never made that mistake again. A good way to check is after loading the film, use the rewind crank to take up the film slack. You will feel the film wound in there. Also, when using the wind-on lever, look at the rewind knob. if it's turning, you know that the film is loaded correctly.

i've found the M loading system to be quite good really. it allows you to rewind the film with the leader out if you want to and then you can later load it up again and shoot through with the lenscap on to where you left off in the roll. this is handy if you want to change film mid roll, without wasting any frames. like if you want to switch from black and white film to color, or to a different speed, etc..Just be sure to mark the roll with a pen so you can remember where you left off, otherwise you may have some double exposures. I always go one extra frame too, just to be on the safe side!

-- tristan tom (tristan@tristantom.com), June 04, 2001.

Thanks for the great responses.

I have handled the different viewfinder M6's at a dealership in Chicago. Even shot three rolls in the parking lot area one Saturday.

I found the .85 vf much easier to work with, easier to keep both eyes open and easier to focus. Can I be sure after just a couple of hours? Probably not. But here is my reasoning on the 0.85; for me, 35mm lenses are either too short or too long and so I've decided on the 50. A great all around length, especially as I spend alot of time getting used to the M6.

I found the 0.85 with a 50 attached just about right. Enough area outside the lines without too much waste.

I've stopped kidding myself that I'll ever enjoy or be good at street photography. I don't like pointing cameras at strangers about town. But I thoroughly enjoy family/friend gatherings which allows for more posed shots with the ability for me to move about finding the right framing etc. At the same time, a small, quick and quiet camera still comes in very handy during unposed moments.

So while the 35 on the M6 may be the ultimate street camera, the 50 works best for my use.

If I find that I really use and enjoy this setup enough to warrant another lens purchase it would be one of the 90's, which again, I found worked best on the 0.85. After that probably a 28 with an accessory finder. This would leave me with a 28-50-90 combo which feels right to me.

If I could find a store or person that would rent a system to me I would certainly take that route first. Short of that I will rely on the input of the people here as they have much more experience with this Leica stuff than anybody I know.

Thanks again.

-- Tim Kamke (tjkamke@excelimaging.com), June 04, 2001.

Not to contradict anyone here, but the absolute best advice I've seen for loading an M-Leica is posted at the following (along with lots of other good ideas):

http://www.nemeng.com/leica/index.shtml

As a relatively new user myself, I can tell you that at the start I had weeks of frustration with loading. Loading itself wasn't that difficult, but it seemed like every 2nd roll "came off the rails" after 2-3 frames, or I left the swing-open back outside the bottom plate like an untucked shirt-tail, or something else. I tried holding the film in with a finger while winding, and bending over the tip of the film leader and all kinds of stuff, and the more I tried to make it work, the worse it got.

Since I ran across this advice and started using it I've loaded 30+ rolls without a bobble. The Leica really is the EASIEST camera in the world to load, not the hardest - unless you TRY too hard.

Think of it as the Zen of film loading - there is no film, there is no swing-open back, there is no effort. Above all, DON'T wind while the bottom is off - it's the best way to make sure the film is INCORRECTLY positioned.

Otherwise - agreement Pick your body based on your prime lens (and vice versa) .85 = 50mm .72 = 35mm. Black lenses look good on any body - chrome ones only look good on chrome bodies. Leica cases are too stiff and compartmented for me - plus they scream LEICA! on the outside. I prefer the tiny domke belt bag/shoulder bag for a single camera & lens - the F301 satchel or F6 'little bit smaller' bag if you're going to expand with several lenses/bodies.

..and have fun!!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), June 05, 2001.

Good to hear you've checked out the cameras first hand - very smart thing to do. Sounds like you know at this point what you'll be purchasing. I also use my camera mostly for family and friends, and I probably take 90% of my rangefinder shots with either the 50 on my M3 or the 40 "normal" lens on my CLE.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), June 05, 2001.

You're not taking the plunge - more like a warm bath in champagne !

Both the 35mm and the 50mm Summicrons are first class lenses so don't worry about a lens only comparison. As for focal length you will get used to either. I tried to use the 35mm as my standard lens but felt I was having to get just too close to people in particular. I have now reverted to the 50mm and have no qualms. Only occasionally can I not get back far enough to get the full picture. But this is only my view. Our club had an analysis of lens use and over 80% were taken with a 50mm lens even though most members had 35s and 90s. Good luck - it's a fabulous camera.

-- Tony Brookes (gdz00@lineone.net), June 05, 2001.

For 35 and 50mm lenses, i find the .72x finder ideal rather than the .85x. Your eyes may vary.

Total immersion? nonsense. Just buy the camera and a lens, use it exclusively for a few weeks. If it doesn't disappear in your hands, let you see your subject the way you want to, it's probably not the right thing for you. Not everyone's shooting style is best achieved with a Leica M. If you find you'd rather grab something else most of the time, why waste the money on Leica M equipment?

Godfrey

-- Godfrey DiGiorgi (ramarren@bayarea.net), June 05, 2001.

Camera/lens combinations are just too subjective. You have to see how it works with your style of photography. I use the 0.58 finder with a 35mm. I wear glasses. This combination fits my style and I am very comfortable with it. Focusing with the shorter rangefinder base seems accurate. Perhaps the DOF of the lens makes up for the shorter RF base. Enjoy your new camera. Jeff

-- Jeff Schraeder (jeff@engineperformance.com), June 05, 2001.

Ordered a chrome 0.72 and 50 f/2 this morning. Thanks for all of the input.

-- Tim Kamke (tjkamke@excelimaging.com), June 07, 2001.