Hi,

I'm considering a lightweight 90. Either the original 90 Elmarit or the Canadian 90TE for photography in the snow/mountains.

Which would have the better flare control? Logic would dictate the newer coatings on the TE, but Erwin Puts rates the older Elmarit as a slightly superior lens overall.

Any real world experiences regarding flare control?

Cheers

-- Simon Wong (drsimonwong@hotmail.com), June 16, 2001

Answers

The original 90 Elmarit is a good lens and works well if you use the very deep hood. It isn't that compact of a lens, however. Many of the old chrome lenses also have some fog internally by now and will need cleaning or then they will flare like crazy. Make sure to do the "shine the flashlight inside trick" to make sure the lens is clear before purchasing. There a lot of threads here in the files about common problems of TE 90 with element seperation. I had one and yes it went bad on me--I can't recommend that lens to anyone. I'd consider the Voigtlander 90 that just came out, as it has modern multicoatings and APO glass, as well as being very compact and affordable. Initial reports on it are its the best screw mount 90 ever made by a large margin.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), June 16, 2001.

Andrew, Where did you find the reports on the new Voigtlander APO 90 Lanther? I'd be interested in reading these too. Ken

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), June 17, 2001.

Why not consider a 90/2.8 Elmarit-M. Prices are very low right now with everyone selling their current 90s to buy the 90/2AA. You can buy a mint 90/2.8 Elmarit-M for $800US and less for roughed up examples. The performance of this lens is STUNNING (even wide open). I have had NO flare problems whatsoever. I had a 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit-M and found flare to be a significant problem even with the 12575 hood mounted. The 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit-M also seems to have a great deal of sample variation with some peolple swearing by and others swearing at their lenses.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), June 17, 2001.

I had a late model Tele-Elmarit-M, and while it didn't exhibit any separation or hazing of the elements, it flared badly in backlit situations. In addition, the close up performance wasn't very impressive - it tended to soften quite a bit between one and two meters, especially at 4 and 2.8. The current Elmarit-M is a heavier lens, but is significantly better in all respects.

If you're looking for a light 90, the Voigtlander might be worth considering. I've been wondering about getting one as a travel lens when I don't want to lug along the 90 AA. I haven't seen any reviews of it - I saw the the comment about "maybe the best yet" on Stephen Gandy's site, but there wasn't any testing or data to back it up.

-- Paul Chefurka (chefurka@home.com), June 17, 2001.

I've had just about all the 90's, currently own a late-production thin T-E and a current 90/2.8. Yes the T-E is smaller in volume but not if you add on the hood. It is significantly lighter in the hand but we're talking ounces, not pounds (grams not kilos, for our non-US readers). I have shot side-by-side comparisons between a late 90/4 LTM, both versions of the T-E, 90/2 pre-APO, and current 90/2.8 and from f/4-f/11 I really could not detect any significant difference. I have not experienced the flare problem with the thin T-E, but again mine is late-production Canadian (just before the move to Solms)so perhaps the coating is improved. The throw of the focus ring is half as much on the later lenses, so perhaps other changes were made as well. I do use my T-E for backpacking or to take to a dinner party in a coat pocket, but if I didn't already have it I'd go for the latest 90/2.8. They're a bargain today second-hand, in the $600-700 range for perfect glass/mechanics which is all I really demand.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), June 17, 2001.

I just dug through several publications, and I can't find where I read the report of the 90 f3.5 Voigtlander-I may have seen it online. I do remember them saying it was extremely good even wide open. If I find the report, or remember where I saw it online, I'll let you know.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), June 17, 2001.

I have a late-70's 'thin' TE. It definitely has a tad less contrast at all apertures and in all light than my 1989 90 Summicron - where the 'cron gives me negatives with absolutely clear shadow areas, the TE always has a little density. Clip-on lens hood makes no difference unless I'm shooting within 60° of the sun where it helps for maybe another 20°. Without the shade in strong backlight no shadow area is darker than zone 4-5 (!!)

I still like the TE. It is sharper than the 'cron from wide open down to at least f/8. The contrast difference is not always apparent, especially once I've made a print (but sometimes it is glaring!) Frankly even the TE still occasionally has too MUCH contrast in hard light with slide film.

The anti-flare ridges machined inside the lens tube and focusing cam tube of the TE end about a mm from the back edges, leaving lustrous rims that catch light from light sources just outside the frame and reflect it towards the film - I think this is the source of most of the veiling flare.

I' ve had no rear element problems, but do have some corrosion speckles in the coating of one of the front elements - they are only visible with strong backlighting through the lens, so heed Andrew's advice about testing with a flashlight.

I think most folks are right that you can find the current version 90 2.8 used now for prices almost as low as the early Elmarit and TE. For some reason I've never had a lot of luck with the new lens, but since everybody else has wonderful praise for it, and the charts confirm its quality, I guess it's just me (?!?)

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), June 17, 2001.

Hi, why doesnīt anyone concider the 90 from Konica. Itīs supposed to be a very good lens, prices are low too.

-- Rene Fix (renefix@gmx.net), June 18, 2001.

Re the Konica 90, I bet the reason no-one has suggested it is simple lack of familiarity. It's not getting the same kind of advertising as the Voigt 90, and not as many dealers sell it. But you're right, for an inexpensive but light and high-quality 90, it's an obvious choice. IIRC, Pop Photo did a review of it and gave it top marks.

-- Paul Chefurka (paul_chefurka@pmc-sierra.com), June 18, 2001.

FWIW, Photodo rates the Konica 90 f/2.8 at 3.8, while the Leica 90 f/2.8 is rated at 4.5. B&H sells the Konica lens for $600, but with the Leica lens priced approximately the same right now (mint used), I would probably go that route.

-- Bob (robljones@home.com), June 18, 2001.

Well at PHOTODO the 90/2 summicron is rated 4.3; any coments on this?; also a lens with great reputation the Nikon 85/1.4 is rated 4.4 and the 85/1.8 from Nikos is 4.2. elmarit and summicron both got great marks but the summicron is usualy so badly review.I have never use the Elmarit but Iīm sure is a top lens.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), June 18, 2001.

Photodo's rating is for the old pre-APO Asph 90 Simmicron. The 90 f/2.8 Elmarit-M has long been known for being sharper than the old 90 Summicron. I would bet, though, that the new 90 APO Asph is at least as good as the 90 Elmarit-M. At least it is according to Mr. Puts.

-- Bob (robljones@home.com), June 18, 2001.

I have been concerned how some of the Leica 90's have faired with time so I have decided upon the Voigtlander APO 90. Someone off here sent me a pdf file copy of a review done by a UK photo magazing and its superb. My only complaint about the Voigtlander 90 are those ugly coloured rings at the front, they dont suit the older classic barrel design of the lents itself. But at the end of the day I want the best for my money and at no more than 400 dollars US its excellent value.

-- James Cooke (james.c@mis.net.au), July 15, 2001.

If you can locate the August 2001 issue of "Shutterbug" magazine, there is a review of the 90mm V'lander. It is reviewed by Roger Hicks, who uses Leicas for photojournalism, and is more "results" based than "test graphs" based. He says the wide open performance is good, but not great, and the optimum aperture is f/8. He may be biased in that he is comparing it to a Leica 90, but I would bet that my Elmarit M is optimum by f/4.0, and requires stopping down only for more DOF. The Elmarit might be too sharp, even wide open, unless your model has flawless skin, so a bit of softness wide open with the V'lander might not be a bad thing.

BTW... the three lines of multiple colors (red, green and blue) are suppose to represent the "APO" nature of the lens, bringing all three wave lengths of light together to the same point. I'm not an optical expert, but I wonder how much APO correction is really needed for such a slow moderate lens. My Elmarit M is sharp enough to cut myself on, and is a simple conventional design.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), July 15, 2001.