I am almost completely ignorant when it comes to Leica. But for quite a while now, I have been thinking about going back to a more simple photographic lifestyle (I have nostalgic memories of my early photo experiences w. my first camera: a Ricoh 500G ;-)).

Well, I came across a M2 w. Summicron 50/2 advertised as "Like new from the factory"(!?), at a price in my local currency would translate into aprox 950 USD. I have not seen the camera yet, and I would like to ask some experienced Leica users what questions I should ask the seller. I am an experienced amateur photographer myself, so I know the basics to look for when evaluating a camera/lens. I am primarily interested in your Leica/M2/Summicron specific suggestions. What should I ask before looking at the camera/lens? and what "strange" Leica/M2 specific things should I look for when physically examining the camera?

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated, since I have never held a Leica in my hands.

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), June 17, 2001

Answers

There's some good info here about the M2 a bit down the page, and there is a buyers checklist of sorts if you scroll way down past the M6 stuff. http://cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

Which 50mm Summicron is with the M2, the dual range, collapsing, rigid chrome, or is it a newer style with the tab?

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), June 17, 2001.

Andrew, Thanks for the link, it seems very useful.

I will have to ask the seller about the lens. I would expect the lens to be "contemporary" with the body, but I don't know. Are there any particular summicron that makes it a questionable deal?

I am really a wide angle person (but on a budget) and plan to buy a voigtlander for this purpose. As long as it is on par or better than my present Nikon I'll be happy.

Ofcourse I'd like to have an original Leitz lens, so the included lens is important. Maybe I can use it for a trade w. an Leica wide - I'll have to see what I can afford.

Another question pops up! From the Cameraquest page I can see that the M2 has framelines for down to 35mm and viewfinder magnification of 0.72. Is it correct to assume that the entire finder view outside the 35mm lines will approximate 28mm?

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), June 17, 2001.

Aside from checking the range/viewfinder and shutter and film transport mechanisms of second-hand Leicas, as described in various literature, I suggest looking with magnification through the *front* of the viewfinder window, at the upper and lower edges of what appears to be a triangular glass (it is the prism) receding toward the rear eyepiece (I wish I could describe it better, but you'll see it). If you can see "golden droplets" along the edges, this is evidence of the rangefinder prism begining to de-cement. It might stay forever, it might come completely decemented if the camera takes some kind of shock. Maybe moderate, maybe severe; one can't predict. If that happens the fix is a whole new rangefinder (about $500 in parts. Although there was a fellow who could resilver and recement them but the last time we spoke he said he needed a number of them to make doing it cost-effective, so the wait is lengthy.

With the 50/2, look into the front of the lens while shining a penlight from the rear. If it looks like it was rubbed with steel wool, this is due to the soft coatings on those lenses. It can be re- coated, but this is not inexpensive.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), June 17, 2001.

Erwin Puts includes a detailed discussion of the various generations of the Summicron here:

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/leicahome.html

The second version, which he calls "R" (for "rigid") represents a considerable improvement over the first ("C") collapsible version, itself not at all bad. The third ("N") formnulation he says has potential beyond the capabilities of available emulsions!

Version "R" is most contemporary with the M2. It shares with the "C" a soft front coating that commonly shows cleaning marks, and any lens made before 1966 is likely to need haze cleaned out, and have its helical lubed. I recently had a "C" vesion recoated, cleaned and lubed by John Van Stelten and the cost was $175.

Here in the U.S. these days the price you quote is about par for a good M2 without any lens at all!...........

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), June 17, 2001.

Niels: I have the collapsible, Dual Range and the one referenced as "N" in prior threads. If you are shooting transparencies, the collapsible is very warm compared to the others, almost yellowish in cast. Black and white the color temperature does not make as much difference. I do not like the collapsible. It is difficult to focus. I had a new rangefinder put in my M3 last year for $550.00 at Leica NJ. They also converted it from a double stroke to a single. Perhaps an M2 would be less. Some cleaning marks on the lens are acceptable to some, but scratches are another matter. Good luck and enjoy.

Mark J.

-- Mark A. Johnson (logic@gci.net), June 18, 2001.

I have a really mongrel M2 with a 70's black summicron. To give you an idea what to look for ,here are the faults mine has: Lens... Lens focus cam worn, does not align at infinity. Missing red dot. Friction change if you focus fast (feels like it slips but doesn't) Kind of loose aperture ring. Oil on aperture blades. A couple of flecks of paint inside are loose. Body.... Multiple drop wounds (top dented out where it has been dropped on rewind knob is the worst of 5 different decent dents). Dents in shutter speed dial from the wind lever. Wind lever a little wobbly. Leatherette falling off. One strap lug rotates. Worn lens length cam follower (a 35mm lens only just brings up it's frame line - lucky I don't have one :) Weak LH frame line. Dirty RF. Cloudy RF. All shutter speeds slow (at least 1/2 stop) Slow shutter speeds rather random.

As the lens glass is still clean, it takes the sharpest photo's of any camera I have ever owned. I keep meaning to have it CLA's, but the body probably isn't worth it. The M2 you are looking at sounds like it will last forever.

-- Mark Wrathall (wrathall@laudaair.com), June 18, 2001.

Niels, count a CLA as an immediate necessity on any older Leica. Sounds like Mark is several years overdue for one. :-)

Mark--Worn cam on the 50? Probably not--what you're seeing on the back is grinding to custom adjust the cam. There's a little runout mark past the infinity point because they didn't have any reason to grind any farther. Not to say that you're wrong about the lens not focusing right. I put a drop of superglue on my moving strap lug to make sure it didn't eventually grind its way through the body shell, making subsequent repair MUCH more expensive. A lot of your problems are simple adjustments or cleaning problems--such as the framelines and the shutter speeds, and the slip-stick feel in focusing is simply dry lubricant--not damage. . . not yet, but if you let it go a few more years. . . . . .

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), June 18, 2001.

Thanks for all your help.

I have now recieved pictures and serial numbers of the camera.
The camera does indeed appear to be in very good condition, "like new from the factory" is, as expected, probably an overstatement, but it appeas to be en exellent condition. It includes original leitz filter, Lens hood, lens cap, and leather case for the camera + a manual of some sort.
The camera is located not too far from where I live, so I'll have a chance to check it out next week before buying.

I have made a quick webpage where you can see the 3 images I recieved. I would appreciate any comment you may have.

The body has serial no: 1031226, so it is from 1961 according to the Cameraquest page.
The lens has serial no: 1832824. I can't seem to find lens numbers on the net, so I dont know production year. It is not collapsible, does it mean that it is the one called "ridig" like the one Erwin Puts tests on his page?

It appears on the images that the selftimer is not positioned entirely vertical, but is rather turned a few degrees inward towards the lens. Is it normal, a cause for consern, or am I too picky considering the less than 1000$ price tag?

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), June 20, 2001.