Damn. Bad stuff, that

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2001

Answers

I mean good for her doing what she needs to do but still it sucks for the rest of us. I just meant she will be missed.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2001

I agree on both counts, Sarah. I'm secretly hoping that the fact that she took down the archives means that she's going to rework her whole journal into a book, though.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2001

Damn. I just started reading her stuff. I hope she becomes a big shot writer so we can all read/see her work again.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2001

And if another one of those idiots on Metafilter calls her site a 'blog', I will have to unleash my vicious kung-fu upon them.

Over time, I've begun to see the reactions to sites shutting down as, well, a bit over the top. I mean, I get it - I do, and there are sites I still miss and long for. But, when you consider that there's a whole population of personal sites yet to be discovered, there's not much time to waste with the being sad. For the people who harbored envy and jealousy of Pamie's (groan) 'popularity', well, now's the time, mes amis! Step up and claim the crown for yourselves! Time's a-wastin'!

In any event, vaya con dios, Pamie.com.

-- Anonymous, June 29, 2001

dizzamb gabbster. I had to read that twice, but yep, you was talkin' some shit. I'm impressed. Talk that shit grrrl.

-- Anonymous, July 01, 2001

Pamie couldn't make money off her site anymore so she quit. That's a legitimate decision, I suppose, but it certainly shows how she really feels about her readers, doesn't it?

This also made me think about the diarist awards. Is it right that a money making site done by a professional writer wins? Perhaps the diarist awards should be restricted to non-profit sites.

-- Anonymous, July 03, 2001

Uh, whatever... Pamie was making enough money to cover her server expenses, and now she won't be. Why should she pay to entertain you?

And it seems a bit silly to rule out good writing from the diarist awards because the writer happens to make a little money from it.

And why the hell am I responding to some silly troll? Oops.

-- Anonymous, July 03, 2001

Dave, even if the Diarist awards were restricted to non-paying sites, you still wouldn't win one. Because you don't have a journal. So tell me again why you care?

-- Anonymous, July 03, 2001

Hmmm. What makes you think it was me? Okay, okay, I admit it, I was pretending to be a disgruntled Pamie reader. But I only did it because there aren't any. And it's a little disturbing.

I mean, remember back when you quit and so many people were pissed off? Here Pamie quits and everybody is blowing sunshine. Is nobody going to admit the truth?

First of all, if you don't mind banner ads (and Pamie obviously doesn't) there are plenty of free hosting sites available. So the "I can't afford it" excuse is completely bogus. Plus chickclick obviously offered to renew her contract but at less money. I can't see how it wouldn't be enough to cover hosting.

The second lame excuse was "this story is over." No it isn't. Not even close. She still needs to find love, fame, and fortune.

And what about wanting her privacy back? That has got to be a prime motivator, yet she doesn't even mention it. No need to offend her readers with the truth, I suppose.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

People get mad at me when I quit because I'm such a bitch when I do it. Or so they tell me.

I don't think Pamie is obligated to give anyone anything other than what she's given them. She wasn't even obligated to give them that.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

Some of us aren't mad that Pamie quit, we're disappointed to see her go because we enjoy her, and the forum she offers. There's nothing to be mad about, she doesn't owe her readers squat. I don't pay her, so I can't cop an attitude with her because she's not going to be there for my entertainment anymore. That goes for most of the dailies I read, including this one, and the same can be said for my journal.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

I wasn't a regular Pamie reader, although I met her at Jcon last year and liked her very much. However, I think Dave has a point ... I read her farewell entry, and I can buy that she's simply no longer interested in journaling, that it takes time and energy away from other things she wants to do, and I'll even buy the "the story is over" line, if she simply means that the piece of the story she wants to tell is over. All that's valid.

But the money part, which was her first stated reason, gave me a "WTF" moment too. Most journalers I know don't make money from their sites, not even to cover expenses. There are free hosts, and there are low-cost hosts, and the expense of simply hosting a journal isn't that much. If Pamie wanted to keep the journal itself going, even if there are other parts of the site to divest, I don't see how not making money should factor in. I think she wanted to quit for a number of reasons, most of them the perfectly normal and ordinary reasons that anyone offers for choosing to not continue. I just didn't get how the money factors in.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

You guys have to remember that in Pamie's case, there are a lot of people who will miss the forum even more than they'll miss the journal -- I've been reading comments in various places from people who say they only follow the forum, they don't actually read the journal.

Pamie's forum costs a huge amount of money. It pretty much has to pay for itself, or I don't know how (or why) she could keep it going.

That good-bye wasn't just for journal readers; it was also for the people who count on her forum as a community. Presumably she wanted to quit both gigs for various reasons, but she was giving her reasons for quitting both, not just the journal.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

A "huge" amount of money? Didn't you say it could be done for $40 per month? Surely the chickclick revenue would exceed that? Let me ask you something; what was the bandwidth used by 3WA like?

I have to say, the words "I can't afford it" are a pet peeve of mine. People use that as an excuse when what they really mean is "I don't want to afford it." So why don't they say they don't want to instead of hiding behind a flimsy excuse?

I wasn't arguing that Pamie was obligated to continue her journal, by the way. I was only commenting on the marked disparity in reactions between your quitting (and others as well) and hers. I thought about this on the drive to work actually, and I think it comes down to something I have to repeatedly remind myself of: the packaging matters far more than the product. I mean, the end result is the same: "I quit." And really, when it comes right down to it, the reasons are going to be similar as well. It all comes down to how you package it.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

jeezum crow.

I can only speak as myself, a writer and occasional reader of pamie.com.

If she says her story is over it means her story is over. Maybe it means that she feels like she's writing the same shit over and over and over. Maybe it means that she wants to do other types of writing and she can't seem to do it and do her journal as well. maybe it means she ran out of words.

Honestly, aside from the lotion and the basket, I don't think Pamie has been nearly as entertaining for the past year as she was before that. Allow me to clarify... I don't think her stuff has been overall as entertaining to me as it had been previously. Maybe she's not as entertained by her journal as she used to be, and wants to stop writing before she starts sucking.

In the end, who gives a rat's ass?

Same thing with her not being able to afford it. As far as I can tell from my reading of her journal, she's still unemployed in LA. As far as I can tell UBB is a disgustingly inefficient piece of bloatware that isn't going to fit on some free banner-host. Maybe the site just isn't worth the effort of finding a new host, a better bulletin board, etc. Maybe she can't afford to spend the time on the site it takes to make it really good, because she has to spend her time pitching stories or going to auditions or whatever.

Maybe she didn't say anything about her "privacy" because that's not the issue. Unless Ray is giving her a ton of shit for letting the world know that he's terrified of spiders, I can't see where the privacy issue would even come into play.

In all honesty, I think Pamie has a big enough following that she could turn her site into a pay site (say, pay to read entries less than 90 days old and pay to post on the forum, but browse the forum and read archives for free) and make enough money to cover her costs, maybe even live off it. Advertising is ridiculously inefficient and we've all seen the end of it coming for a while. Right now we all have to spend hundreds of dollars on makeup and dude where's my car DVDs in order for Pamie to get a small kickback from those companies (ok, it's an oversimplification but that's the general structure of an advertising based model). It *would* be much better for all involved if we just gave ten or twenty or whatever right to Ms. Ribon directly. We pay less than we would on shit we don't need, and Pamie makes more than she would.

but you know what? it's not my decision. i'll miss Pamie's column (it's still good, even if I don't find it quite as good as I did last year) but as many other's have said, she doesn't owe me shit.

I can't even believe I spent fifteen minutes typing this. Pamie's last post speaks for itself, she doesn't need me to defend her actions, especially to the likes of Dave Van who's only playing devil's advocate for attention (as usual).

Jesus Christ, Dave, you *really* need to find a hobby or get laid or sit there and have a cream soda or do some fuckin' thing. Seriously.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

What malarky.

You yourself brought up a negative issue, the fat-Elvis syndrome that seemed to be affecting Pamie. Are you "playing devil's advocate for attention," or what? Why does that description apply to me and not to you?

I mean, come on, that charge is grossly unfair. I will state for the record that I rarely play devil's advocate (arguing a position I don't hold) (in the last year, anyway), and I never argue for attention. Sheesh. (Perhaps further discussion about me could be taken to email.)

Somebody started a topic about Pamie's quitting. Did you really want yet another thread filled with platitudes? Or can we feel free to discuss some of the harder issues?

Here's another thought:

On March 5, Pamie posted pictures of a fire near her place. These pictures were such that she may as well have posted her street address. (A word of advice to diarists: Don't. Do. That. I know it's tempting to tell the world about it when something remarkable happens right next door, but it is not a good idea. There's a good chance there are people who live in your area who might use that information to make you feel uncomfortable. It has happened.) On March 14 Pamie posted a bunch of stuff about her privacy and hinted at some unhealthy attention. Were these events related? I sure thought so. Geez I wish I could link the entry, but it's gone. Here's an excerpt:

I've lost friendships. I've been hurt. And through it all I'm thinking, "This is only a webpage." And my audience, really, is small. What happens if the audience gets larger? Do I lose even more privacy? Do I write less about myself and more about coffee and cigarettes? Do I shelter my own life to protect myself? I'm feeling a bit vulnerable these days and I feel like sometimes this webpage is an easy way to take advantage of me.

And then a few months later she quits. You're going to tell me it wasn't a factor?

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

I am biting my tongue so hard, I do believe I shall have a speech impediment for the rest of the week...

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

Rob if you get a scar from that, you can go make another post in my thread.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

Here's the deal - we all read what Pamie wanted to tell her readers, about quitting. That is all we will ever know about why she is quitting, and the speculation about her costs, her privacy, her 'hidden' reasons is just ugly and pathetic gossip.

I am very, very sorry to see her site close down, but at the same time, I respect her for doing it, because the time and effort she put in to it can now be better applied to writing that will further her career.

And Dave? The reason why you aren't seeing many Pamie detractors out there is because she has been nothing but gracious in her time online - she doesn't haunt forums, stirring up shite, and she doesn't post meta entries that contain not so thinly veiled insults to other online people. She doesn't enter flame wars, or start them, or do any other stupid 'meta' bitching - all of which makes her unlike most other online journalers. She answers her email from fans, and she takes the high road when people try to stir up shite about her.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

Kristin: I am well aware of the techniques Pamie used to gain and maintain her popularity. So what? In suggesting she is above reproach you are sounding every bit like a rabid, unthinking Kaycee fan.

Remember them?

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

I agree with Kristin. Pamie went out, as she went in, with style, and she doesn't owe us any further explanations. Believe it or not, Dave, I felt the same way when you quit your journal---that you can quit when you want, and one doesn't have to search for "hidden" explanations, but one is allowed to feel sorry that one can no longer read an entertaining journal.--Al of NOVA NOTES.

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

Man. Can I ask what the fuck the point is, speculating about Pam's reasons and factors and whatever else? Let it go. She's pulling down the journal and forum, and spending that time and money offline on other things more important to her.

I'll miss the journal, everyone will miss the journal. We wish her the very best, we move on.

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

Dave, I don't believe Pamie behaved the way she did online because she wanted to 'gain and maintain popularity'. I think she did it because she's a decent person.

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

No, I don't think Pamie is above reproach, because nobody is, really - not you, not me, not anybody. But I haven't ever seen her do anything, online, to be reproached for - have you?

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

Just like to say that true bitchiness is kinda like an art form. In some women, it is their only redeeming quality while in others, it's just icing on the cake.

People get mad at me when I quit because I'm such a bitch when I do it...

Maybe Pamie being so nice was the reason I didn't read her. Now, where oh where was that Jackie Collins journal...

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

The point, Jen, would be that I am interested in the truth. Not just pretty truths, but any truth.

Jackie: pamie.com was a performance. All it proves is that Pamie is a good performer. A talented and classy performer too, it you want. But if you think you know the real Pamie you're sadly mistaken. Of course she's a decent person, but so is everybody else (except me, of course).

And Kristin, I have already pointed out that Pamie's "I can't afford it" flies in the face of free sites like geocities and greenspun. Is it really so hard to accept that Pamie was wrong?

(And I would like to point out that I made a mistake above, in associating chickclick revenue and $40 hosting. It is my understanding that chickclick requires more expensive hosting.)

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

Dave, you know I love you like Angelina loves her brother, but how can Pamie be 'wrong' about her own reasons for quitting?

And Geocities is just not an option - according to their terms of service, they not only limit disk space, but also reserve the right to limit message board posting, the number of times that you, or other people, access your site, the amount of email you can send or recieve. And you have to affilate yourself with Yahoo, who some say has a TOS that is unclear as to exactly who owns the copyright on the pages hosted by them. There is currently no option to increase disk space on geocities, and the basic package isn't enough to host a large site, much less a large site with a UBB. I couldn't host everything on my own site on geocities - they do not provide enough space for that.

Also, on the money theme - it isn't just what it costs for a server and domain name - but in how much one's time is worth. When someone puts up a personal webpage, they are working for free. At some point, we all have to evaluate whether or not it is worth it to us to do that much work for free - maintaining a huge forum is a big time suck, as is providing content of high caliber. And for writers, the question has to be, why am i providing for free the same product that I can be paid for?

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

Kristin, you know I love you like Oedipus loved his mother, but it seems rather clear to me that Pamie could be wrong about her reasons for quitting if it turned out that she wasn't right.

Doncha think? Maybe?

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

And all of this matters because why?

Jesus fucking CHRIST, some people need to leave the house more often.

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

Gabby, we can always count on you to look on the bright side.

Yes, with Pamie gone, and hence one less top-notch site on the world wide web, some people will no doubt leave the house more often.

In fact, I clearly remember that day last month when my wife said, "Dave, will you get your ass outside and see what those kids are up to?"

"Sorry, hon. Pamie has a new entry up," was my sheepish reply.

Because, let's face it: when there was new content from Pamie available for our joyous perusal there was no leaving the house.

And now, sadly, there exists a giant void, with practically nothing left to keep me, and thousands of others, in our respective houses.

We will surely get out of the house more often.

And when we do, perhaps we'll think of Pamie. And laugh -- not cry -- because we know she'd want it that way.

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

Damn. Here I was, making my ban list, checking it twice, and then Dave had to go and make me laugh. "Think of Pamie." Okay, that was pretty good.

(I admit it, I was a General Hospital fan in the eighties, but I wouldn't have taken you for one, Dave.)

-- Anonymous, July 05, 2001

Well, that was a #1 single as well.

So, I was wondering if there would be any copycat quitters and it seems Sara Astruc has followed suit. Not much of a surprise, either, I suppose.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Dave, I'm not even finding Astruc's domain. What's the story? Did she make some announcement? I'm not finding anything on 3WA. . . .

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Err, sorry, missed the General Hospital antecedent of "Think of Pamie." Was it a Rick Springfield song? Please, honor my past as an addict and tell me what I missed.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

It was a very bad song called "Think of Laura," recorded by that guy (Christopher Cross, maybe?) who did the theme from Arthur, and it was about Laura of Luke and Laura fame. I can't remember if it was from the time when she disappeared (to do bad evening soaps; see Bare Essence) or if it was from when she came back. Whichever it was, they played it incessantly on the show.

And I can say with no offense whatsoever intended to Pamie that changing the lyrics to "Think of Pamie" makes me laugh every time I think of it. I think the only lyrics in the entire song are the ones Dave quoted: "Think of Laura/but laugh, don't cry;/I know she'd want it that way./When you think of Laura/laugh, don't cry;/I know she'd want it that way." That's it. The whole damn song, except for some weirdly muttered verses that are unintelligible, anyway.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

And of course I'm wrong -- there are THOUSANDS of lyrics to this song! It's so rich in meaning, we could discuss it for weeks!

Every once in a while I'd see her smile
And she'd turn my day around
A girl with those eyes
Could stare through the lies
And see what your heart was saying

Chorus:
Think of Laura but laugh don't cry
I know she'd want it that way
When you think of Laura laugh don't cry
I know she'd want it that way

A friend of a friend
A friend to the end
That's the kind of girl she was
Taken away so young
Taken away without a warning

[Chorus]

I know you and you're here
In every day we live
I know her and she's here
I can feel her when I sing

Hey Laura, where are you now
Are you far away from here
I don't think so
I think you're here
Taking our tears away

[Chorus]

And yes, it's by Christopher Cross.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

No news of Astruc? C'mon, somebody clue me in, here.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Sara's site is still there and has an explanation for why she's quitting for now.

Hmm ... "Think of Sara" works, too. Or "Think of Astruc," which is funnier but less poignant.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

Could not get in all morning. I see it now.

I have another contender, for those of you who remember the Chad & Jeremy hit "Zanzibar Sunset" (1983):

So I'll sit and watch the Perfect Way sunset/ disappear behind the trees With nothing to do until morning/ and only myself for company.

-- Anonymous, July 11, 2001

beth: last man standing
online journals fall like rain
bad hair days rolls on

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

I fergot about the spacing issue on Greenspun. That was my lame attempt at haiku.

It was beautiful! -- B.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Sara: [clap clap clap clap clap]

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

I was thinking about it yesterday, and I realized it would never work to put "Think of Xeney" into that song. ("Beth" doesn't have the right number of syllables, of course.) That's because when I quit, I don't want you to laugh. I want you to cry, really hard. I want your life to be without meaning. I'd especially like it if a few of you would check yourselves into a mental hospital from sheer despair.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

When you quit "If You See Her Say Hello," I went out, bought a case of scotch, and went on a three-day bender. I still have enough scotch left for you to quit once or twice more.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

"I want you to cry, really hard. I want your life to be without meaning. I'd especially like it if a few of you would check yourselves into a mental hospital from sheer despair."

Um.

If we did that every time you quit, Beth, we'd be going in and out of mental hospitals quite often....

Instead, judging from the past, our response would be, Give it time---she'll be back in a few days.

Al of NOVA NOTES.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Just do what I did Al and make the mental ward your home. the food ain't so bad, they let you sit and watch tv all day and there's this one girl who'll do it with anybody for a cigarette.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Shut up, Rudeboy, I told you I quit smoking.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

I don't care if you all think I'm lame. If I were with Beth in real life I'd be laughing my head off so, I'm gonna post it...

LOL!

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Cory, that's motherfucking genius, right there.

Although I could do without the imagery of Beth in a schoolgirl outfit. I mean, you know what those outfits do to red-blooded American guys. I don't think of her that way and certainly have no desire to start.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

If the part of "Sonny" hasn't been cast yet, I'd like to throw my thespian hat into the ring.

You may remember me from a brief stint on a (quickly canceled) series of 7-11 commercials... I played the part of "background child #3" who was putting relish on my hot dog/72 hr. aged sausage.

Yes, yes, I know it's quite disconcerting to find yourself in the midst of greatness, but, if you are able to look past my glamourous aura of stardom, you will see raw, classically trained, Shakespearian talent, something that the bastards at Disney missed in my audition for "Flight of the Navigator."

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Putting relish on the ol' hot dog, eh Morheus? Is that anything like "punching the mayor?"

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Oh, I wish it were genius - just a smattering of minor adjustments to the lyrics of the original song and plot, and add Beth's words, and voilą, I still couldn't escape the copyright lawyers on this one.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Ok. That's it. We need to start a new thread for "Punching the Mayor" euphemisms. Poor Pamie, I hope she doesn't see what her topic evolved into...

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Sniff!

"Think of Pamie," y'all. Remember?

Ah, fuck it. I'll never beat Beth in a school girl outfit.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

Pamie's Panties? Rocked!
And Squishy? Most Excellent!
Dude - where's our Pamie?

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

I saw "dude where's my car" this weekend. Worse movie ever. So bad I can't even use it as a humorous reference any more the way I can with Weekend at Bernies or Teen Wolf 2.

the stupidity I could handle, but the part at the end where their reward for saving the world is that their girlfriends breast grow just really bothered me.

-- Anonymous, July 12, 2001

I saw that. It was like a Bill & Ted movie without the intelligence.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

Never saw it. So, I guess I can keep using it as a humorous reference. (not that I think there will be much call for it) I think "Freddy Got Fingered" got worse reviews in totality. Haven't seen that either though.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

She is working on a book. She posted it in an note on the forum before it shut down.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

I just like that we can all use "Freddie Got Fingered" for any sort of punchline forever.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

Don't forget "Disrespecting the 'Bing."

Also, someone in my office is attempting to coin the phrase "Sleeping with Samantha" as in the Sex in the City co-star. My co-worker uses it when someone is "fucking themselves" with something they're doing... (i.e. shooting themselves in the foot.)

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

Maybe you should coin "Freddie Got Fingered" in the office Morph. You can use it when someone almost fucks themselves but backs off just in time ... as in "Morpheus Got Fingered" or "Beth Got Fingered" of "Maharishe Jen Got Fingered" or Jen W. or CoryGlen or Keli or Kristin or Melissa or Lynda B. or Al or Kaela or Sarah or Pamie or gabby or David G. or Micheal H. or Jackie C. or Lisa H. Jessie or Jennifer or Curtis or Slickery or Lizze or jen popbomb ...

(this is my substitute for the Forum Love thread.)

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

I'm just sad that "Varsity Blues" hasn't had staying power as a funny reference. It only works if people remember the oversaturation ad campaign with the huge forehead guy saying, "I don't want your life" in his supposably Texas accent.

Oh wait, wasn't this thread about Pamie at one point.

I wish she'd make her cats talk some more.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

"the huge forehead guy saying, "I don't want your life" in his supposably Texas accent. "

Dude! Did you just use the word 'supposably' in a sentence - in the PamieLove thread? That is so sublime!

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

Did Pamie use that word? I never noticed.

My old buddy Jay and I say that, based on some Friends episode that neither of us had seen but a friend was telling us about once.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

Pamie wrote a very funny entry and had an even funnier forum topic about misused words.

Hey! It's on her old Greenspun forum, so I can still link to it! Here it is.

Pamie, please please please put that entry in the book.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

Patrick quit.

Thought you all would want to know.

Al of NOVA NOTES.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

Oh, now I thought him bringing up a huge forehead was the big shout- out.

But I still scream "I don't want! Your life!" at times, so I don't think the Beek's work is fading away.

-- Anonymous, July 13, 2001

When that movie came out one of my friends drew a one-panel cartoon for the Rhode Island School of Design newspaper that featured Destro turning to Cobra Commander and saying, "I don't want your life."

I nearly pissed myself when I saw it.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2001