I have had Nubians for 3 years, and have had successes and failures with cheesemaking. I can't find any commercial source to help me diagnose the problem, either they don't work with hobbiests, or they don't know or don't want to tell. Sounds like a job for Countryside forum. First year, made mozzerella and chevre with great success. Only had 5% failure rate with mozzerella (curds too soft to take form) Second year, 0% success with mozzerella. Never could get curds to form, or if formed, too soft to take shape. Tried every recipe in the world, no change. Tried more rennett, less rennet, more citric acid, less, tried more culture, less, tried longer/warmer/cooler/shorter holdingtime for the curds to set up. Only success was with commercial cow's milk, which we can't stand to use due to hormonal sabotage of our food supply by dairy farmers. But the cheese worked great with cow's milk, so I don't thinkit was the cultures or recipes. Does anyone know how to test pH in milk, what is ideal for mozzerella making, where to buy tests(Cheaply if possible), how to check for and eliminate other factors, etc.? These were the same does, milked the same way by the same person, fed the same grain from the same source, and the same hay from the same source.

What gives here?????????????

-- Pat Stone (patjstones@scican.net), July 05, 2001

Answers

Pat, one thing you didn't mention was the AGE of your rennet. I tryed to hold mine over for use the second year and had one failure after another until I bought new rennet. Were you using the liquid or the tablets?? The liquid is very unperdictable after 6 months to a year. I now change mine every six months. Just a thought......as far as the ph testing, never have done it.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), July 05, 2001.

Goat Milk is so fragile to work with when it comes to making cheese, everything has to be almost exact. i have to go milk, but in the meantime, try this website, it has good help and lots of graphic pics on how to make goa tmilk cheese, the guy who did the website is a chemist. http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Blue_Cheese/Blue_Cheese.ht m

I saved it to the blue Cheese link because i want to try making Blue cheese. But go to the bottom of the page, and to his homepage. hope this helps. i'll re read your post and see if i can help figure it out when i get done milking. take care.

Bernice

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), July 05, 2001.

Besides Bernice's link they also have Cheesemaking lists from real artisians over at Yahoo groups, just put cheese into the search engine. There archives are chock full of every recipe you can imagine. Mary Jane Toth has great books and will answer your recipe questions also. I love feta, especially stored in herbed oils, to make the recipe I use turn out exactly the same each time, I have to pasturise the milk. I also am careful to keep all yeast products out of my kitchen from my bread yeast in bulk, my sour dough bread crock, and my Diamond V Yeast, all spores which will affect your cheese. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 05, 2001.

It could be a problem with your Doe's milk. It could be the grain or hay they are getting. Or due to the heat. I have found that My Nigerian Milk sets up better then My LaMancha milk. I can't make a good Feta with the Lamancha milk. But the Nigerians milk makes wonderful Feta every time!Are you cooling it the same way? Have you changed any of you handling prosses? There are many things that can efect the milk, hence the cheese! Good luck kepp trying.

-- Robin (Bluemoonacres@aol.com), July 05, 2001.

Mozzarella can be a trial to make sometimes, since acid development is at the crux of its success. All cheeses hinge on acid development, but in Mozz it is critical, and when you don't get that right, nothing works.

For Mozz to stretch properly, the curds must have a ph of 5.3 or so at the stretching stage. More than that and you start losing butterfat into the whey, and if acidity becomes excessive early on, you begin to see very fragile curd such as you are describing.

The tricky thing is that acid in Mozz comes from many different places, depending on the recipe you're using. Once source is the starter culture, another from adding citric acid, and a third from the natural lactic bacteria in raw milk. If any of these sources contribute too much acid, you'll get soft, very tender curd that doesn't hold together long enough to stretch.

So look at your make procedure. Are you adding too much starter, or letting the cheesemilk culture too long? Are you adding too much citric acid? And are you failing to cool your milk well enough, storing it at too high a temp, or slacking on basic sanitation issues? All these things will contribute to too high acidity.

And bear it in mind that all this varies with the stage of lactation your goats are at---high butterfat, high solids milk (like that produced at late lactation) require more rennet and more starter. High somatic cell count milk (like in subclinical mastitis) has a dramatic (& negative) effect on cheesemaking. Early lactation milk like that at the beginning of a lactation requires less rennet and starter, but the cheese yield is way down. Cheesemaking is a bit like surfing. You have to pay attention to the littlest things, and be ready to change your procedure quickly at need.

This surprises a lot of people since they're not used to thinking of milk as a product that varies over time, but let me assure you that is does, and dramatically.

As for determining acidity in cheese, traditionally cheesemakers use an acidometer. This is usually a burette, NaOh and uses phenolphthalein as an indicator. You can buy them at most cheesemaking supply houses, but the winemaking supply houses sell them cheaper. They're about $40.

pH meters are used by commercial cheesemakers, and have advantages over acidometers, but the particular probe that's needed for cheese is *very* expensive and puts the unit in the range of $250.

Unfortunately, pH strips are usually not accurate enough to be much use to cheesemakers.

In time you won't need any of these tools, as you learn over time how the milk and curd react to the changes inherent in cheesemaking, but until then, and lacking an experienced cheesemaker to guide you through the complexities, an acidometer is almost the only way to follow the cheesemaking process.

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), July 06, 2001.

I have a book titled Goat Cheese by the Mont-Laurier Benedictine Nuns I have never made a bad batch of cheese using it as a guide. I also have Raising Goats the Modern Way and that has served me well in cheese making and goat care. Both books are available through Hoegger Goat Supplies. Linda in Indy

-- Linda in Indy (peacefulvalley3@yahoo.com), July 06, 2001.

Vickie had the same idea I did. I know someone who makes goat cheese & she said she can't make bread because the yeast gets into the air & then into the cheese. She's planning a separate cheese room so she can make bread again.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), July 07, 2001.

I've had difficulty from things such as temperature and/or humidity fluctuating during the curdsetting process. A new 'favorite' plant is another possibility, if there are herbs that can be used to curdle milk, I don't see why there wouldn't be plants that could interfere with the same process, and they would have no problem coming through in the milk. I did an experiment last year, trying to get some good out of milk that had been tainted by the cow's discovery of wild garlic. It made decent onion butter, but would NOT set up for cheese. I don't know if it was the plant, some other factor, or a combination of several reasons. For obvious reasons, I have no idea if it would have cooperated as yogurt. = - )

-- Connie (Connie@lunehaven.com), July 10, 2001.