Hope someone has some ideas for me!! Reader's Digest Condensed version of problem:

Mom kidded twins and that was where her involvment appeared to end. Will have absolutely nothing to so with the kids so - milking Mom and bottle feeding kids; one twin does great but the other will not suck; will swallow if milk squirted into mouth via bottle or dropper; instead of sucking, grinds teeth against the nipple. We are now at day 4, only managing 1-2 ounces every couple of hours along with a miserable fight to do so. Does it get any better? If anyone has experienced this problem before or has an idea, please let me know.

-- Kari Preston (wildcatt@telusplanet.net), July 21, 2001

Answers

Response to Help getting kid to nurse from bottle

They do not have to take a bottle have you tried putting it in a shallow pan ? Gently put its mouth in it , it may take several tries.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), July 21, 2001.

Response to Help getting kid to nurse from bottle

If the kid is not putting on weight and is not eating enough, you may have to tube feed. Have the vet show you how. We have had kids that I swear were brain damaged at birth that took a week or more to train to take the bottle. Just be persistent and more stubborn than they are. They'll get it eventually. Hold the neck of the bottle between index finger and thumb, insert nipple in mouth and wrap your other fingers and palm around the muzzle so the kid can't push the nipple out. Hold the back of its head with the other hand and gently massage the head and neck. Keep doing this until it gets the idea to suck. Normally they get it within the first two days, but the stupid ones can take much longer. It helps to hold the kid between your knees while kneeling so it can't squirm away. For refusing to eat, they can sure be strong.

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), July 21, 2001.

Response to Help getting kid to nurse from bottle

I found it helps if you cover the kid's eyes with a cupped hand as you try to feed it. (This is while you have it on your lap, you understand.) There's some instinctive thing in kids that necessitates it being darker than normal to feed---like under their mother's belly.

If that doesn't work, check the kid's temperature. It could be ill.

Good luck!

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), July 21, 2001.

Response to Help getting kid to nurse from bottle

At four days and she is still not drinking, something needs to be done very soon. What part of the country do you live in and what is the selenium status there? A selenium deficiency can cause kids to be born with no desire to suck. Often they also have trouble walking for a few hours or even several days. Their feet look crooked but straighten out with time. It can be remedied with a BO-SE shot, which is not expensive. I would force the milk down her until the shot can be gotten. How is she doing otherwise? Is she strong, lively, running around and bleating?

-- Rebekah (daniel@itss.net), July 21, 2001.

Response to Help getting kid to nurse from bottle

I guess that could well account for Mum not wanting to nurse. If it starts so early, it's likely an inherited trait - don't breed from the kid if it lives, think about alternatives to the mother.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), July 21, 2001.

Response to Help getting kid to nurse from bottle

I got one of my kids to suck by putting honey on my finger. Once she got the hang of it, I put the honey on the nipple and held her up under the chin as explained earlier. I also used a plastic bottle and squeezed out some milk to get the taste going.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), July 21, 2001.

Response to Help getting kid to nurse from bottle

To each one of you - thanks for the input. I am a fairly new goat lady and this is the first trouble that I have run into with kids. Prior to kidding, moms are given tasvex; after kidding, kids are given A and E, Bimotrim and Hemostan (1 cc of each). Yes, we are selenium poor but the moms have goat blocks with the necessary ingredients to compensate for the lack of some of the minerals that they probably need. (We live in Northern Alberta, Canada). The kid fights well (!), has good vocal capacity, motors around to some extent (not like the sister does, however) and but just fights nursing every drop of the way.

Sure good to have a place to turn for info as goats are still relatively new to this area and the vets are pretty much at a loss - great for horses and cattle, etc.

Thanks again for all the help. Will try each and every one of the suggestions to see if anything is going to work.

-- Kari (wildcatt@telusplanet.net), July 21, 2001.

Response to Help getting kid to nurse from bottle

You might want to try different temperatures for your feedings. Most kids like the milk warm, but I've had kids that won't drink well if the milk isn't a bit warmer or cooler than usual.

-- Sheryl in ME (radams@sacoriver.net), July 21, 2001.

Kari, the selenium in the salt blocks is not enough. It's better than nothing, but if it were me, I'd try giving the kid a Bo-Se shot. I have been feeding my goats a special loose salt with extra selenium in it, and they still were having kids that were deficient, giving the shot made all the difference.

-- Rebekah (daniel@itss.net), July 22, 2001.

FINALLY! Making just a teeny tiny bit of headway. I have determined that the interest or ability to suck just is not there - period! Won't suck on finger or anything else. However, did make a little headway in lapping milk from a dish and also, using a small syringe and squirting into mouth also works, at least the kid will swallow with no hesitation. Can only hope that I can get enough into him to keep him going. Tried the honey thing; what a face he made lol; will also get the bo-se tomorrow when the farm supply opens. THANK YOU all for all the great ideas. I sure was at a loss on this one.

Kari

If anyone else has some clues as to why this situation is, please let me know.

-- Kari (wildcatt@telusplanet.net), July 22, 2001.

I would also worry about your selenium, copper and E in your adult does. Kids born with this type of problem with no others is just a huge red flag. No goat is going to get any minerals in any adequate dosage from licking a big block that could last a year. If the same weight of loose minerals were put out they would be gone in a week. Loose cattle minerals with their higher copper and selenium is what we use. saanendoah.com has a great new article on colostrum. Did you know that even though small amounts of selenium are passed onto the kid via the placenta no E does. And you need E for the selenium to work, so we give our kids 300 IU E capsules at birth. I just snip the ends and squish the contents into the mouth, since it floats in the milk. I also boost the E in my does ration, via Horse Health in Jeffersequine.com, before breeding and during the last 50 days of pregnancy. Him lapping up milk and squirting it in with a syringe is really a huge catch 22. He needs calories to gain his strength, he should be eating at this point.......rule of thumb....if he wieghs 10 pounds than he should be eating 10 ounces 3 times a day.....20 pounds 20 ounces 3 times a day. Put the amount into a measuring cup and see how long it is really going to take to drip this into his mouth. Without enough calories he is cold, he is weak and he can't suck because he doesn't have the energy. Learn to tube. At this point just do it! A trick is once you get the tube down into him, measure it on the side of his body and leave extra tube (aquarium tubing is fine) so you can hold it above his head and graivity feed the milk in) but put this end into some water, if you have bubbles than take it out and try again it is in the lung. If you blow into it you can see the stomach rise also, you can also sometimes, smell stomach contents. Sometimes tubing just once 10 ounces of warm milk and the E will do the trick, give him enough energy so that his sucking reflex miraculously comes back. Good luck. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 22, 2001.

Thanks to everyone again - it would appear that I am winning the battle. Today seemed like a whole new life for the little one - is actually seeking nourishment - bunting, sucking, etc. Not like his twin but certainly is much better. Weighs 7 pounds and is taking most of the recommended amount. Still living in my porch but soon (if it ever quits raining and being so horribly damp, can get back to their pen. Am really grateful for all the input - is nice to know that folks really care about the "little people" and their not so smart caregivers.

-- kari (wildcatt@telusplanet.net), July 24, 2001.