I'm wondering what pocket cameras other Leica M photographers are using. I recently took a family vacation and brought along my wife's Olympus Stylus together with my Leica M gear. I ended up using the Olympus more than I expected and found that it came in really handy. My favorite photos (of my family at the beach) were actually taken with the Olypmus, although the quality doesn't even come close to that of my Leica M w/ 35 'cron.

Now I'm thinking of getting another pocket camera, but with a better quality lens than we have on our Olympus Stylus. The Contax T3 is a viable choice, based on lens quality alone. The Yashica T4 is another option. I've also heard that the lens on the Olympus Stylus Epic has 2 aspherical elements, but don't know if its lens is any better than with the previous model Stylus we already have. I'm not anxious to have a zoom model, as I prefer the smaller size of non-zoom cameras.

So, I'm looking forward to hearing comments from other Leica M photographers about which pocket cameras you are using and can recommend, as well cameras you don't recommend due to problems. Thanks in advance.

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@att.net), July 22, 2001

Answers

Here's an excerpt from Erwins Put's Newsletter. I hope he doesn't mind....

"I bought myself a new Minilux 2.4/40mm. First results show incredible performance even at full aperture."

We also have a Minilux and like not only it's lens but it's relatively powerful flash, pre-focus, control, accurate focusing and exposure. The only thing wrong with this camera is that it's heavy for a P&S.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), July 22, 2001.

Wow Ken, I can't help you here, because my M with the tri-elmar IS my pocket camera ;-)

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), July 22, 2001.

Wow Ken, I can't help you here because my M with the tri-elmar IS my pocket camera ;-)

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), July 22, 2001.

For me, same as Jack - I have the M4-2/35mm over my shoulder, a 90 TE in one POCKET, and 2 rolls of film in the other POCKET. Pocket camera!!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), July 23, 2001.

Or - the advertising slogan they never used in the '60's (and can't, now)

Leitz, camera, action!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), July 23, 2001.

My pocket camera (until the shutter jammed--CLA time) was a Kodak Retina IIIc. With the 50/f2 Schneider Xenon, it folds into a small, slim enough package to easily fit in a jacket pocket. Built-in meter, great little lens, nicely constructed, good looking, fairly cheap to replace--the only disadvantage is the weight.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), July 23, 2001.

KL Prager,

My M6 fits in my winter pockets, but not my summer ones. I suppose a CL with 40mm would be a good answer if a non-Leica is unthinkable. But since you mentioned the Olympus Stylus, I'll tell you this much. My fiancee has one. She brought it on a canoe ride we took last summer. Neither one of us knew a wole lot about canoeing. Well, she said she did. Needless to say, we capsized on a submerged tree. The Olympus went into the drink, floating in a non-waterproof cloth bag. When we got ashore, she took the film out (soaked) and pitched it. I drained the camera, holding it at various angles. We dried it in the sun a few minutes. When we got home, the next day, I did some more draining. I noted the lens and viewfinder were filled with droplets and mist. It didn't look pretty. The next day I took it to a camera repair place. They said it would cost more to fix it than to buy a new one. The flash arm was hanging out like the tongue of a dead dog. So I took it home and sealed it in a ziplock bag along with four of those little dessicant silica gel packs that say "do not eat this" on them. Then I forgot about it. For a year.

Tomorrow she is going on a business trip and wanted to take a camera. I opened the ziplock bag and popped in a new battery. The Stylus made a series of promising clicks and whirs. The flash arm snapped back into closed position. I blew out the interior with compressed air and loaded a film. It wound it. I shot a couple pictures. It worked, flash, zoom lens drive, and all.

So she's taking it along. I'll let you know how the pictures turn out. So far, I'm impressed.

Regards,

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), July 23, 2001.

The T3 is an exceptionally compact high quality camera cabable of images as good as the best 35mm cameras made. The only thing I can fault mine about is that because of its fairly high cost ($699), you want to be careful how you treat it. I would often toss the Yashica T4 in the side pocket of the car, or inside a jacket pocket without its case. With the T3, because it is such a precision made camera, I am more careful how I handle it, and in one way that takes away from part of the fun of shooting with a P&S. That said, I wouldn't trade mine for any compact camera ever made. You can not believe how good that lens is,even wide open, and the high shutter speeds, super close focusing (13 inches) and easy user over-rides make the camera very capable under many situaions that other P&S are useless. Only P&S I have ever used that does not have a vignetting problem at any speed or F stop. Great low light camera. Fast response on the AF, great finder, very quiet, and about 2/3 the size and weight of the Minilux.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), July 23, 2001.

Buy a Minox TLX - the quality is increadible and it is more handy than any of the so-called pocket cameras. Minox is even owned (still?) by Leica.

-- mark (mramra@qwest.net), July 23, 2001.

CONTAX T2 Great little camera , better than every thing pre T3. I have not used on of these yet. What i liked about the T2 was that it had a fast lens[the reason the zoom cameras don't work for me] and the flash doesn't overpower the ambient light.

-- Tim (timphoto@ihug.com.au), July 23, 2001.

I'd go for the Yashica T4 with its Carl Zeiss T* 35mm f/3.5 lens. The Yashica's $169 price is much better value than the Contax T3 at $699. I would be less nervous about handing over the Yashica to a stranger to take family snap shots for me when on vacation, compared to a Contax or Minilux. I also don't have to worry too much about the Yashica's 35mm focal length making me look fatter than I already am in my family photos--especially when I am asking a stranger to compose for me. I would avoid any compact with a wider lens than 35mm. Strangers, and myself, almost never bother with the zoom function so I'd avoid that. I also wouldn't get much use out of the T3's aperature priority, manual focusing, or even the f/2.8 etc. Sometimes I just want a high quality point and shoot camera to supplement my M when traveling. I'd only go for the T3 if it was half price though. The Yashica T4 is really good value. My 2 pennies.

-- Bill Lee (Bill_Lee@telus.net), July 23, 2001.

At different times, I've used the following "pocket[able]" cameras: Minox GT; Minox ML; Rollei 35SE (although a little heavy, still one of my all-time favorites); Olympus XA; Contax T* (the original; 3 weeks after I bought it I dropped it into the Aegean while on vacation); Olympus Stylus; Olympus Epic (my current Leica M6 companion). As soon as I can find it, the new, all-black Contax T3 (anyone got any leads??).

For the money, the Epic is one helluva pocket point-n-shoot. The only thing I'm not crazy about is its dependence on batteries and the shutter lag time. When I take the Rollei SE along with me, I use it pretty much set on hyperfocal distance and fire away. The compromise 40mm lens is amazingly sharp and the in-the-viewfinder LED light meter is a bonus, too. I use the Minox the same way. I equip both the Rollei and the Minox with lens hoods and either yellow, orange, or red (Heliopan) filters on sunny days--just the lenshades without filters on others. Except for the Epic which I load 50% of the time with color negative film, I always shoot Tri-X (@ EI 200) in the others (I don't think I've ever shot any color in any of the other cameras). When I shoot Tri-X in the Epic I override the DX Coding so that the EI is also 200. I have all my film processed commercially at a lab that's been doing custom processing for me for over 15 years. The results I get are exceptionally consistent since the lab follows my preferences for developers and development times when I request something other than D-76 1:1 with a dash of Benzotriazole. The negatives sizzle.

-- Cosmo Genovese (cosmo@rome.com), July 23, 2001.

I have to second Jack and others above. My M6 (TTL+2/35ASPH or 2/50) is also my pocket camera, and that's why I bought it. It even fits in a light jacket pocket e.g. when I'm at the Philharmonie here, where photography is absolutely forbidden.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), July 23, 2001.

If you want the ultimate pocket camera, then the best choice is MINOX CLX

It has a super sharp lens, shutter from 8 sec to 1/2000, focus range from 8 inch to infinity, with parallax corrected viewfinder, built in UV filter, ND filter and lens hood, weight only 5 oz.

A good choice for pocket 35mm is Minox GT-E, very sharp Leitz designed Minoxar multicoated 35mm/2.8 lens, shutter from 1/500 to 20 minutes or longer, great for night shots. Much quieter than Leica M. 7 oz only

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), July 23, 2001.

My pocket camera is my IIIg with collapsible 50 Elmar. But, my glovebox camera is a Konica Big Mini. Not the zoom, but the older one with a 35 F2.8. Though I tend to carry the Leica whenever I 'go' anywhere, I often fail to do so when popping over to the local store or some such thing. A few days ago I went to get some bread first thing in the morning at our local bakery. They have a couple of small tables set up where you can order fresh buns and an espresso. A man and woman, both older than dirt, he in an ancient black suit. Perfect Leica...ur Konica moment. At 8X10 (B&W) it looks 'Leica' to me.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), July 23, 2001.

I was using an Olympus XA, which was a clam shell type camera with plenty of controls, aperture priority, manual focus via a rangefinder, and manual ISO (ASA back then) which allows you to fool the meter for good slides in tricky light. This camera died and was no longer available, so I bought a Minox ML (in 1986), which is still going strong.

It is the size of a pack of cigarettes, allows manual aperture and ISO settings, uses scale focusing via traditional depth of field markings. The lens is at least as good as a Summaron, aperture for aperture, very sharp and plenty of contrast. It is in my pocket even when my Leica isn't, and at the end of a trip, the Minox is responsible for many of my successful shots.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), July 23, 2001.

The Leica CL is worthy of consideration - although you need a largish pocket. The trouble with most pocket cameras is they involve a compromise: usually you have to give up some capability such as cable release, parallax compensation, long shutter speeds - nice viewfinder. The good thing about the CL is that you give up nothing with it. In terms of pleasure though the best pocket camera I found was a Minox GT-E - very light and fun to use and suitably controllable to produce good results. But I found mine tended to scratch the film so I give it up - maybe this trait has been fixed. Also of course guess focus is not so good if you are used to Leica sharpness. The Rollei 35 is nice, but a 40mm lens is even harder to guess focus than a 35mm.

I gave up on the Contax T2 when the lens jammed in one time and it made a horrible whirring noise. There were also metering quirks. Maybe the T3 is better?

I am a slide shooter so the exposure system needs to be good and at least controllable, so most point and shoots (T4, Epic, Stylus etc.) are out.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), July 23, 2001.

My pocket camera is Canon G1 digital camera. The shutter lag is 'forever' if I don't do it in two steps. It is good companion to my Leica M6+50 'cron. Often just carry these two for a day shots. I also like Olympus Stylus Epic. It has very good design, lens. I think it is best value for the money.

-- kenny chiu (amchiu@worldnet.att.net), July 23, 2001.

To answer your question, yes the Olympus Infinity Stylus Epic f:2.8 lens is much, much better than the previous model. Try it, you'll like it.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), July 23, 2001.

I figure if you're not going to bring the relatively compact M with a lens or two, you'd better be getting a lot in convenience and portability in a P&S, which is why I have been long intrigued by the Ricoh GR-1s. It's super small, almost slimmer than a roll of film, Mg body, sports a 28/2.8 (?), that, recently, I read is a Leica lens. It captures focus first, has manual override, etc.

Does anyone know about this camera and its connection with Leica optics?

I have the Yash T4, which is a fine camera for the money. It's the camera I'd take rock climbing or sea kayaking, but for back country camping I was willing to schlept around my SLR and 2 lenses.

BTW, here's one eb*y ad for the GR-1s

while

this ad seems to claim a Leica lens.

Finally, some info from Ricoh UK.

-- Tse-Sung Wu (tsesung@yahoo.com), July 23, 2001.

The GR1 has a "Leica quality lens" according to those users and sellers who like it. Personally, I am sceptical, but it is probably pretty good. Still, no connection with Leica Camera GMBH.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), July 23, 2001.

My "car" camera is an original Leica Mini. Purchased it about 5 years ago from a store that was closing it out. I probably only put a roll through it a year, but my wife loves using it. The photos turn out surprisingly good with the right film. I've discovered that camera prefers Kodak Gold 200 (which also happens to be one of my favorite films for my M4P.

-- Eric Platt (ericplatt@aol.com), July 23, 2001.

My wife has a Pentax UC-1 in her purse. It's a really nice little clamshell p&s, but I think it's discontinued. My pocket camera is a llf with an elmar 50/3.5, fairly light and really flat. Of course, my tight jeans days are over.

-- John Fleetwood (johnfleetwood@hotmail.com), July 23, 2001.

I am totally frustrated with P&S cameras that have no manual controls. My pocket camera is a Rollei 35S. It is also the camera I stash in my luggage (when I'm carrying 35mm gear) in case some disaster befalls my main system. The 40mm lens is a good compromise between wide and standard, and it's built like a tank. Aperture settable in 1/2 stops from 2.8-22, shutter 1-1/500 with X sync at all speeds. There is no rangefinder but I have a Leitz rangefinder that fits in the flash shoe, if I think I'll need to shoot wider than 5.6.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), July 23, 2001.

I use the Ricoh GR1. Sharp, fastish lens, contrasty, small. Only drawbacks are price ($400), a badly designed on/off button, and a weak flash (which doesn't bother me much since I regularly keep 400 film in it). No matter what that E-bay listing is trying to claim, the GR1 doesn't have a Leica lens. Although Ricoh did make the Gr1 lens in a LTM mount for some ammount of time.

If I was going to buy another one, I'd probably go for the T4 though. At $150 you can worry a lot less about what happens to it. Although the Canon G1 digital option is very tempting, though it's on the big side of pocketable. I would stay away from the psuedo-manual pocket cameras. Because in my mind, a pocket camera is for the times you don't have the time/need/want to have to think too much about shooting. That's why they are called "point and shoot".

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), July 23, 2001.

I'm continually amazed at the quality of the Olympus Stylus Epic. My film & processing bill is a much higher price than the $89.00 that this camera costs. Go here to see a grab shot I made with it in Paris, using Agfa Scala film. It loses some in the scanning...the slide is amazingly sharp.

-- Jim Tardio (jimtardio@earthlink.net), July 23, 2001.

Sorry...poor html on my part...try this.

-- snack (jimtardio@earthlink.net), July 23, 2001.

The latest issue of Shutterbug has a good review of the Contax T3. Only negative is the flash, a range of only 3-4 feet. I would have bought one except for this as I am looking for a good shirt pocket camera.

-- C. W. Satterfield (cwsat@istate.net), July 23, 2001.

What ever happened to brand loyalty in this group? Support your habit and buy Leica. The minilux zoom is the way to go IMHO. Decent controllable flash with good range, nice lens, excellent ergos etc... a very nice pocket camera especially for grab shots. Expensive lens caps though ;)

-- Brooks (bvonarx@home.com), July 23, 2001.

Now, I know that you talking about very small cameras. I really haven't had one since the untimely death of my IIIf. A number of years back, I did get a point and shoot. My idea was to get the absolute opposite of my M series cameras. I wanted something that could be used to make 4 x 6's for people at regular functions, when they just wanted stuff to pass around or put up each year to remind them what last year was like. Some of it goes on web sites.

I got an Olympus ISO-10. It has a 28 to 110 mm ASPH zoom. It has always reminded me of a ZX300 that I looked at once before getting a BMW. The car had a sticker on the window that said the dash has 187 separate controls. This camera is this way.

I have figured out what I need and what I don't. I like the spot meter option and the auto fill flash. I haven't tested the lens quality and only use print film to 4 x 6. I know that, even on the web, the quality is much better than what I get from the $5000 or so Nikon digital that I use at work. I like the camera, but it isn't pocket size.

Still, I tend to haul around the Leica M or Nikon F2. When you have backpacked an 8 x 10 a few times, they seem small. Of course, I don't do the kind of street photography that many of you do.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), July 23, 2001.

Nice going, Jim. My favorite is the strolling muscian at Montmartre. HCB can eat his heart out.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), July 23, 2001.

Jim, Many of your pictures are wonderful examples of using wide angle lenses. Were the buildings taken with a PC lens, corrected in printing, or just carefully held level?

-- Wilhelm (bmitch@home.com), July 23, 2001.

No, I don't have a PC lens. I always try to hold the camera level, and I'm greatly aided by the use of a grid screen in my slr.

Thanks for taking a look.

-- Jim Tardio (jimtardio@earthlink.net), July 23, 2001.

Mine is a Canon ixus adventurer (or thereabouts). It is an APS, The main good points are:-

-light weight -waterproof, can go underwater -smallness, round, size of flat tennisball. -relatively good pics. -tough -cheap

-- Yip (koklok@krdl.org.sg), July 23, 2001.

Thanks to everyone for all the comments! There's been a really great number of responses, which and serves as yet another example of what a wonderful forum this is!!!

It's obvious that there's lots of personal favorites as far as pocket cameras goes, including many who view their Leica M's as their 'pocket' cameras. I'm still undecided between the Olympus Stylus Epic and the Contax T3. I like the price and weather proofing of the Olympus, but the quality and option for overrides of the T3. In any event, the numerous responses will serve as good 'food for thought'. And, if Leica comes out with a new (smaller & lighter) model Minilux...

Cosmo: A local dealer advises that his Contax rep claims the black T 3's are on their way and should be here in another month. Let's not hold our breath though...By the way, how do you override the DX coding in your Olympus Epic to shoot Tri-X at 200?

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@att.net), July 24, 2001.

Just before you do rush out and get a Oly or a Contax, just another plug for the Leica minilux which has a fine lens and really is not that big. Another choice, if you can find one, is the Leica mini 3. A truly tiny camera and simplicity itself to use. I got one for $100. My wife loves it and it produces fine results.

-- David Killick (Dalex@inet.net.nz), July 24, 2001.

Another good "pocket" camera is the Minolta AF-C : Great 2.8/35 mm Rokkor lens, rear lens AF (!), minimum focus app. 2 feet, small and lightweight (Minox 35 like), clam shell body, i.e. no case needed, cheap at ebay ... and it uses two SR 44 batteries instead of expensive Li-cells due to thumb wheel film advance. You can mount the tiny EF-C flash (GN 14) on the camera´s left side ... or not if you use fast film.

Carsten

-- Carsten P. Manske (manske@schuberth.de), July 24, 2001.

I've owned the original Yashica T4 and was extremely pleased. Sharp, sharp lens. One of the few P+S's without exposure compensation that could correctly expose chromes. Sad day when it got stolen.

Replaced it with 1stGen. Olympus Stylus Epic. This too was great and even more compact and weather resistent. It's programmed to shoot everything wide open at F2.8. Not so good for scenics, but great indoors. Had a bunch as I destroyed a few in my snowboarding adventures. Please note the later versions made in Singapore, as opposed to Japan, never seemed quite as sharp.

Currently proud owner of a Ricoh GR1-s. A tiny, beautifully made, magnesium bodied, full control compensation controlled aperature priority auto, excellent viewfinder with shutterspeed information, auto parallax correction, 3 point autofocus, spot focus/meter, a special hyperfocal mode. Best of all is all features have a "lock". Once selected the camera stays in this mode even when turned off.

The best are the analogue dials for exposure comp., aperature and the flash mode.

Excellent, excellent 28F2.8 aspheric lens. Has a seperate hood and provison for filters too.

My main gripe? A lot more distortion than I like. Always a hint of the "egg" head syndrome on the periphery. Also the passive infarred autofocus hunts a bit on the 3 point settings.

Cheers.

-- Simon Wong (drsimonwong@hotmail.com), July 24, 2001.

The trouble with a 28mm as a standard lens is that it is not easy to take good portraits with it and this seems to me what most people use these cameras for. A 28mm is great for interiors, but it is most defintely not a "standard" lens, so I see a Ricoh GR1-s would not be much use to me as P&S. Still, many people disagree I know.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), July 24, 2001.

If you are really a Leica Fans, Minilux 40mm F2.4 is the only choice to continue your Leica fantasy. I own one. I use it more often than my Leica M and R. Its optical quality is perfect!

-- W Andrew (andrew_photo@sinaman.com), July 24, 2001.

Four cameras come to mind:

Rollei 35S - All manual, supeb Zeiss Sonnar lens. Minox 35GT-E - All manual but with aperture-priority AE exposure system, another excellent lens. Leica Minilux - Modern, high-end PnS with user controllability. Contax T3 - Even nicer modern, high-end PnS with user controllability. Of these latter two, I'd take the Contax T3 over the Minilux due to its improved features, better ergonomics, smaller size, and what I feel is a marginally better lens. (I have a fifth, the Contax Tix, which is APS format but of the same order as the T3 in quality and features ... it takes superb pix.)

I stick to cameras that have a 35-40mm lens and adequate user controllability. I don't like the simpler, all automated PnS models with no override capability.

godfrey

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), July 24, 2001.

I agree with the comments made about 28mm being too wide for a fixed lens camera, at least for my purposes, which are mostly family photos.

I tried the Minilux when it first came out and wasn't that satisfied with its ergonomics, although that was just running a roll through it outside of a local dealer's shop. I also prefer the smaller size and some of the features of the Contax T3 anyway. Take a look at the black body T3's that are supposedly on their way here at this site. http://www.kyocera.co.jp/news/2001/0104/0402-e.asp

I'd really love it if Leica (or even Cosina) come out with an updated CL (w/ a modernized and reliable meter), so that it could double as 'pocket' camera and second M body at the same time. If they could bring this out with a 40mm for $1000 they'd probably sell very well. Of course, the key word here is "if"...The idea of paying a bundle for a used CL with an unreliable meter is just not very appealing. Leica might actually be smarter bringing out an updated CL, than an M7, but that's another story...

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@att.net), July 25, 2001.

I just don't think Leica will do a "new CL". This was what almost destroyed the company in the 70s (coupled with discontinuing the M4) it sucks away sales from their premium cameras which offer the best margin for the company. The consumer range which includes the MInilux does not compete with the M line and this works well for them. Not that I disagree with you that a new CL would not be a good idea. I just don't think Leica will produce one. \ By the way the CL meter is just fine - they just need to be properly fixed - cameras that are now almost 30 years old usually need some repairs - this is not unreasonable. People buy a never touched CL and expect to work the same as it did in 1973. An M4 might, but not the CL which will probably need a new CDS cell. At least one can be obtained still from Leica. I think this is quite impressive in these days of planned obsolescence.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), July 25, 2001.

At the risk of being pegged as a Konica spokesperson, here's a vote for the Hexar (original). It's not tiny, but in black it is unobtrusive- and, in silent mode, quieter than the M, I think. The lens is just superb, AE/AF, but there is manual everything (manual focus is set by selecting distances), spot meter, as well as A and P (aperture biased). It has an excellent focusing aid so you know where it's focusing. I've never had a single mis-focused shot, in 100s of frames. It's lighter than an M6, but feels a bit clunkier. But with cameras everywhere these days, maybe small isn't as important.

photo.net reviews

One thought- the Yash. T4 has a WL finder, I believe.

-- Tse-Sung Wu (tsesung@yahoo.com), July 25, 2001.

Olympic stylus epic! Quality to price ratio quite high. High precision 1:2.8 lens. About $89.00 at B & H. You cannot go wrong with it.

-- Jean-David borges (jdborges@home.com), July 25, 2001.

KL Prager,

I attempted to send you an answer to your subsequent question about how to override the DX coding on the Epic to shoot Tri-X @ EI 200, but I received a "Failure Notice" (fatal error) for your address, "www.pragerproperties@att.net".

-- Cosmo Genovese (cosmo@rome.com), July 25, 2001.

Robin,

You're probably right that Leica is unlikely to bring out an updated CL. I suppose it's just 'wishful thinking' on my part...I'm glad to hear that the meter's on the original ones are repairable anyway.

Cosmo,

I did receive your e-mail. Thank you!

Ken

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@att.net), July 25, 2001.

All these answers are good answers. But there is no perfect answer. I have been baffled by the same question for years. I have an M6 TTL with collapsible 50mm and an ASPH 35mm, both quite small but still weighs like a brick in any pocket. And I don't want to be bothered with a flash. So, I have tried a Rollie 35, an old Minox 35 (no flash), a Pentax UC-1, and a cheap Fuji with dual focus lens as a "second" camera. Image quality of the Minox is best but has no rangefinder and only a detachable flash almost 2/3 the size of the little camera. The Rollei tears the end of the film strip as it keeps winding after you have reached the last frame and is hard to load. The Pentax is great but the auto rewind sometimes kicks in at mid roll, giving me a half exposed roll.

My opinion is, a pocketable second camera to you Leica M should offer, in addition to small size and ease of use, a built-in FLASH!

My current solution? A Kodak digital! Why? All the features of a film point-and-shoot and macro focusing, and gives me digital pictures to supplement my Leica. Also it does not give me another set of films that would confuse me after a trip.

What does everyone think--am I crazy?

Kenneth

-- Kenneth (kpai@netzero.net), July 26, 2001.

my pocket camera is Tri Elmar and HexarRF, the 3 focal of the 3E and AE of the Hexar make the best PS camera $$$ can buy.

-- Mitchell Li (mitchli@pacbell.net), July 27, 2001.

My pocket cameras are: Leica IIF, IIIF, and favourite III in black, with an Elmar 50mm/F3.5, a Summicron 35mm/F2.0 LTM, a tiny Summaron 28mm/F5.6, and a Russar 20mm/F5.6. The IIIF is equipped with a titanium curtains that allows me to shoot when it's very frostily.

-- Victor Randin (ved@enran.com.ua), July 27, 2001.

My shirt pocket camera: Minox EC

Weight 2 oz

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), July 27, 2001.

Hi Kenneth,

I don't think your solution of using a digicam as your 'pocket' camera is crazy. Although the idea has crossed my mind several times also,I'm still happy with film. However, sometimes I do get Kodak's Picture CD's (color only)and I plan to get a film scanner later. Anyway, if a Kodak digicam serves your purposes then that's great too.

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@att.net), July 28, 2001.

My jacket pocket camera is a Leica IIIf with 50mm f3.5 Elmar. My shirt pocket camera is a Minox IIIs. All manual, excellent optics, great results.

Joe

-- Joe Buechler (jbuechler@toad.net), July 28, 2001.

I recommend the Minox GT-E as a P&S camera for Leica users. Al’s answer covers me 100%.

«It is the size of a pack of cigarettes, allows manual aperture and ISO settings, uses scale focusing via traditional depth of field markings. The lens is at least as good as a Summaron, aperture for aperture, very sharp and plenty of contrast. It is in my pocket even when my Leica isn't, and at the end of a trip, the Minox is responsible for many of my successful shots.» Al Smith

Street Photography by Dimitris Kioseoglou

-- Dimitris Kioseoglou (kosefoto@otenet.gr), July 28, 2001.

I'm beginning to think that it'll be the coolpix 995 or the Camedia C4040. R.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), July 28, 2001.

Hey you Minox GT-E guys, how difficult is it focusing by estimate? What about when shooting wide open at f2.8? It must be tuff, no?

One more thing. Is there anyway to take off that silly "skylight" filter on the lens? What is it's purpose anyway? It no doubt adds flare and if "protects" the lens, then why can't you change it? And if you can't, then surely you need to protect that too! So what is the logic???

I am thinking of getting this camera...

-- Mike Foster (mike567@acgecorp.com), July 28, 2001.

Not one mention of the Canon Elph in 55 replies. I guess it must not be too good.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), July 29, 2001.

Mike,

I have been using the Minox ML since 1986, and as you have stated, zone focusing wide open is not fun. One of the reasons I might have high regard for the lens is that when possible I always try to use it at f/5.6, which is pretty close to the best aperture. I do use it wide open when necessary, but I have arrived at a technique that works for me. Instead of looking at the subject, guessing the distance, setting the distance manually on the lens, all of which take too much time... I do the following. I set the distance I want to use on the lens, then move up to that place. I remember this is a point and shoot, not a precise camera for the utmost control in composition. I will set the lens for say 4 feet, look for an appropriate subject (candids work great for this), walk up until I am 4 feet from the subject and shoot... sometimes without even lifting the camera to my eye.

The 35mm lens has a very unique feature. The long side of the negative is equal to the distance from the subject. This knowledge allows you to "compose" with your eye. That lens set for 4 feet, held vertically will capture 4 feet of a person. Held horizontally, you can get two or three people standing together. I love my Leicas, but some of my best candid street shot were made with the tiny Minox used this way. When palmed, it is truly invisible.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), July 29, 2001.

I'm sure the Stylus Epic is quite good for the money, but I've never tried one. And those premium P&S cameras, such as the new Contax T3, almost seem to defeat their own purpose, since they are too expensive (at least for me) to leave bouncing around in a coat pocket, bottom of a purse or briefcase, and for use at the beach and in the rain.

I recommend the Yashica T4 Super. My first one is about 5 years old, has been thoroughly abused (drenched, dropped, etc.), has exposed at least 100 rolls of film, and has always produced nicely exposed, sharply focussed shots that easily hold their own next to shots made with my "serious" cameras. I love it so much that I just bought a second one, in case #1 ever dies, since I heard that they are being discontinued.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), August 06, 2001.

It is almost impossible to find a satisfactory a P&S camera after shooting with Leica optics. I have owned and used two Yashica T4s, two Olympus Stylus Epic, a Leica Minilux, a Rollei QZ35T and a Ricoh GR1 for the past four years. Out of these mentioned, my favorite is the GR1. It is very small and light with excellent lens. The only down side is the 28mm focal length is two wide for a general purpose P&S. Both T4 and Stylus Epic (the samples that I have had) had very average performance – I was very disappointed. The optics on the Minilux is very good. But the weight, size and ergonomics are much less desirable. The Rollei QZ doesn’t fit the pocket P&S category at all since the weight and size is about the same as an M6 with a Tri- Elmar, although Rollei has a fantastic lens.

I will definitely tried the new Contax T3 if you want a small pocket P&S.

-- Cing-Dao Kan (cdkan@yahoo.com), August 06, 2001.

A footnote to my earlier post concerning the dunked Olympus Stylus. It survived the river dunking. My girlfriend came back from New Mexico with good pictures. This is one tough camera, which can be highly recommended for applications that risk exposure to water. It worked well (slight glitch with not wanting to takeup the film leader on one roll, but this was corrected) and the pictures looked as good as ever. Though I think we'll take a single use camera on future canoe trips. Or at least a ziplock bag.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), August 06, 2001.

My favourite pocket camera are Minox 35ML and Minox C--- ie, they are more often in my pockets than T2, and Canon Elph 370z. Elph is fun, in particular the paranomic But the Minox lens is sharper.

As for focusing MInox at f2.8, there is no problem, I used my two eyes as rangefinder, and can focus as accurately as M6

For more on Minox and technique : Minox FAQ

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), August 07, 2001.

The old LUSENET Minox forum is at Minox Photography; Moved due to lack of SEARCH and too many fake emails

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), August 07, 2001.

I bought my wife a Rollei Prego 125 when Camera World in Portland had no Minilux Zoom units in stock. Frankly, I'm astounded at the great results she gets. Naturally, when approaching the higher telephoto range, the lens is getting into an f 11 area so shutter speed and sharpness decline. The trick is to use 400 or 800 speed film to keep shutter speed in a faster zone. Pictures between 38mm and 55mm are tack- sharp thanks to the great films (color negative) we have ava

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), September 13, 2001.

I've owned an M2 since 1970 and currently have the latest 35mm and 50mm Summicrons.

While I carry the M2 with one of these lenses many places, I also often carry a Nikon TI with the 35mm f/2.8 lens. Wide open the lens is as good as my Zeiss SLR lenses but not up to Summicron quality (what is?). Exposure compensation is +/- two stops. One very nice is scale focusing that locks into place--unlike the Contax T2 or T3 which have rotating wheels that easily dislog. I can set the focusing dial at 15 feet and the aperature at f/8 and shoot all day long in the street without having to do anything except compose and press the shutter release. Shutter lag is considerable more than the M2. One thing I hate is that (like most P/S) there is only one camera strap lug.

Bob Gordon

-- Robert Gordon (rgordon@sienahts.edu), September 16, 2001.

Ken, you've had a lot of good suggestions, but there is one more camera to consider: the Contax T. It has a 38mm/f2.8 Zeiss Sonnar lens that is very sharp, pretty fast, and works in low light and bright light. It's very tough; I take mine hiking. boating, fishing. I even dropped it in the water once, pulled it apart and it dried out fine (this is not recommended, I just got lucky). This is NOT an autofocus, which, as a Leica user, I think you'll appreciate. It is aperture priority, and the fastest shutter speed is 1/500. You can find these on Ebay occasionally for $300-400. The other autofocus Contax P&Ss are good, but this one is really better. It's also the size of an APS camera and designed by F. Porsche. Try it out!

-- Tony (aknapp9@home.com), September 18, 2001.

I decided to jump in on this. Why not an M6 with the Elmar-M 50mm/f2.8? Easily fits into a small waist pouch and provides outstanding quality. (I use a Lowepro $19 "Waist Pouch.") Which makes it really easy to carry, even in the middle of summer, with only running shorts and a tee shirt on. Of course this is the only camera/lens combination I use right now, and because of it's outstanding quality and compact size, it goes everywhere (loaded with T-Max 400!) I mean, if I'm going to take a photo, then it's something serious, I believe in. Plus in 35mm history, a Lecia RF and a 50mm collapsable lens combination have taken more great pictures than anything else (in my opinion, so I don't get flamed.)

-- Leicaddict (leicaddict@hotmail.com), September 19, 2001.

"Why not an M6 with the Elmar-M 50mm/f2.8?" That's a great recommendation!...............

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), September 25, 2001.

I'll offer my 2cents. I use the Minilux Zoom (MLZ) and like it a lot though it has its drawbacks. The basic Minilux (ML) probably has a sharper lens, but not by much. The ML lens is 1 stop faster (relative to the MLZ at 35mm which is close to 40mm). The ML allows aperture priority shutter control and has a top shutter speed of 1/400 instead of the MLZ's 1/250.

So why the MLZ? It's zoom lens (35mm-70mm) more or less covers my basic M setup of 35mm, 50mm, 90mm thus generally handling indoors and landscapes through portraits. The MLZ also has an outboard flash which I use all the time for either flash or fill flash. The outboard flash's greater distance from the lens axis virtually eliminates redeye without the very annoying pre-flash. A GN of 20@ASA100 vs. 13@ASA100 is also nice.

The ML seemed too close to an M with a 35mm. I keep the CF flash and MLZ in a little two pocket Tamrac P&S bag which is my mini people and place camera system when I don't want to pull out the big guns and look like a "serious photographer." Since most of what I want a P&S camera to do is shoot people this seemed like a good choice. Your requirements may be different.

-- Greg More (gregmore@earthlink.net), October 06, 2001.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), October 07, 2001.

Tessina is a high quality spy camera made in Switzerland. Unlike Minox, which uses special film, Tessina uses 35mm film

Tessina is a favourite pocket camera of many Leicaphiles

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), November 17, 2001.