Can a puppy be "bad" before age 8 weeks? I mean bad-aggressive. I have a little rescue guy here (shepherd mix) and he is truly snarly and bitey, going for the face & everything. Yes, he came from losers who did Lord-knows-what to him before he was rescued, but now we've had him for several days, being nothing but gentle and nice, and he still lunges and bites in a serious way. We know about training and correcting naughty puppy behavior, but I wonder if any of you have had a pup that had temperament problems from the start, and how it turned out. I'm no where near ready to give up on him, but I'm starting to wonder if there are some dogs who are just born with a pre-disposition to this type of behavior, and what I can do to minimize it...

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), July 29, 2001

Answers

I would hold the muzzle of the puppy with one hand and with the other hand grab onto the scruff of his neck and pin the puppy to the ground with a very firm 'NO'. Continue to hold him there until he gives up fighting, you should feel the body relax. At that time let him up, praise him, and pet him particularly around the head area. If he snarls or bites again do the same procedure. It is not uncommon to hold them for up to 15 minutes the first time. You should see decreased occurance and duration of hold soon. If no progress is being made I would put the dog down before you have a lawsuit against you. I would also have the vet check the puppy over to rule out any medical problems that might be causing this.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), July 29, 2001.

Agree with Leslie about having the vet look at him. Ear infection, anything at all that may be causing him pain. But.... Friends who have long moved away from here, raised pitbulls, these pups acted just like the parents from day one. Actually the most aggressive pups were kept as breeders with the shy or timid pups sold off. If you grab a pup by the base of the tail, not to hurt him but to get ahold and not let him move, if he turns around an snaps than they were deemed fit and aggressive enough :( Yes I do believe with folks breeding animals with no idea what they are doing you could have a mean pup that probably needs to be put down. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), July 29, 2001.

Yes, some dogs are born with an aggressive personality. While an experienced handler may be able to train this dog, it may never be safe around people in an uncontrolled setting. To discover if this is the case, do a personaliity test on the puppy. The test can be found in The Intelligence of Dogs by Stanley Coren, a book I recommend to any breeder or rescuer. We routinely do these tests on all pups we raise and it is surprising how acurate they are. From the sounds of it, I would agree with the earlier advise of humanely putting the dog down before any animals or people are injured.

-- Nancy Bakke-McGonigle MN. Sunset (dmcgonig@smig.net), July 29, 2001.

They didn't teach him to be nice. You are being too nice too. I always teach my pups to be nice. If I didn't they would do that too. They are used to playing rough with the other pups, and you are actually just another dog in the pack to them. Another dog would bite him back. You must get mean.

Pick him up. Hold him by the skin on the back of the neck so he can't reach your face. Make him sit in your lap. When he tries to bite, pull back on the skin and say HERE or NO very loud right in his face. You are the boss dog, not him, mean it. Do not let him down untill he settles and accepts the authority you have. Make him sit there a long time, so he knows he isn't in charge, you are. And you say sit there and sit still. Remember it's for his own good.

You can also put him on his back on the floor when he comes at you running and biting. Flip him over, hold him down tight, and do the loud voice again in his face. It's harder when they are that old, but it's worth a try. Don't let any kids wrestle with him, I would keep him separate untill he settles down and listens. The kids playing just un-does all your training if they are not as forcefull as you. Do not allow any mean behavior from him. Give him socks and toys to play with and pull on and praise him allot for being sweet.

Every time I pick up my new pup Bo, he is so excited to see me he forgets his manners. But it dosen't take but a reminder for him to settle down.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), July 29, 2001.

When my dog was a pup you could not pet or even touch him. Yes he did come from a not so nice place, but with alot of patience and time he is one of the best friends I have ever had. He is protective of our family. He will play with our cat no matter how how rowdy the cat gets. He will lay on the lawn and our ducks and their babys can set next to him and he never hurts them. I guess it all depends on how you raise them.

-- Dan (hoppingator321@yahoo.com), July 29, 2001.

I've seen two pups that bad at that age. One was a rescue chow-shepherd mix, the other was a papered and pampered shepherd. Both had to be put down for trying to kill children by the time they were 3 months old. Sometimes the genes for aggression cannot be overcome. Sometimes it's not exactly aggression, it's more like uncontrollable exciteability and inappropriate response. You should consider carefully whether or not children will be coming into contact with the puppy over the course of its entire life. I would put the puppy down if a vet rules out painful medical conditions and the pup simply won't calm down. They usually don't grow out of it, they just get big enough to do damage to people.

-- helen (this_a_real_address@yahoo.com), July 29, 2001.

I have a friend who raises Siberian Huskies for sledding. These are working dogs, not pets. He deals with their agressive and unacceptable behavior by being the dominant dog in the pack. He picks them up by the scruff of the neck (adults!!) and bites their lips or ears - HARD! They respect him and do what he says! Once they learn, all is takes is a growl from him and they shape up. They are no good for companionship or patrolling the homestead. They are only good for pulling sleds. If this is what it takes to control the dog, then put it down. Eight weeks old may be a little young to make that decision though. Use the techniques that others have described above and give him some time to change or prove that his character is bad.

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), July 29, 2001.

Yes, they can be genetically predisposed to have a bad temperament. That is what happens when people breed without a bit of knowledge about appropriate temperament, or when they do it to purposefully produce a mean dog. Shepherds can be fine dogs, but they are one of the most popular and that leaves them wide open for indescriminate people to just breed any kind of dogs. Be sure it is not just puppy behavior and also that there is no medical reason...vet can make both assessments. If this is just a badly bred puppy, the outlook may be more than you want to deal with. Would take lots of training by someone experienced with this problem and even then....no guarantees. Sorry, have lots of experience with dogs and it is maddening that people just produce with no thought to results.

-- Kathy in Va (VaUSMCwf@home.com), July 30, 2001.

It would be really sad to see your pup get put down but its better to do it sooner. I agree with Leslie and most of the other responses. You have to remember its a puppy and when you watch other puppies and dogs play with eachother they're not exacyly nice. To him your another dog in his new "pack" and he might be trying to rid you of the top dog position. You've tryed the nice way so now be firm and let hom know who's boss.With a firm voice say NO and either hold his muzzle or tap him firmly on the nose then walk away and let him know you're mad at him, if he's going to want anything to do with you at all then he might act sad. Since he probably didn't come from a loving home remember to praise him up whenever he is being gentle. Find a treat that he likes but that might create another problem so don't let him gobble. I'd also take him to the vet but it doesn't sound like the vet would be able to do anything but guess like your doing. Has he had his 6-in-one shots? It sounds like you've rescued before but there's one trick that might help you choose a puppy in the future. When you go to a breeder, humane society or where ever pick the puppy up and turn the dog over on its back and craddle it in your arms if the pup doesn't struggle then there's a good chance that it will be a good trusting dog. GOOD LUCK !

-- Michelle in Oregon (holbrook@terragon.com), July 30, 2001.

The first dog I ever had fell into that category. I took him to the best trainer I could find and we spent a tremendous amount of time working with her. In the final analysis, the veteran trainer told me, "I can train your dog and have it doing virtually anything on command. What I can't do is change the dog's personality. If she were mine I'd put her down before she hurts someone."

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), July 30, 2001.

I had a Shepard Shelty mix who was like that when I got her as a pup, she was never good around kids. She just barely tolarated them. I always told every one it's not the pitbull [Gracie, sweetest dog alive] who will bite, it's the Sheltie mix. When she was a pup, I tried to take an ear of corn from her and she bit me, so I smacked her and went for it again and she bit again. I finally realized the people who then owned her weren't feeding her, and when they got kicked out I took her in. My other dog Toby taught her manners and she was totally devoted to me for 18 years until I had to put her to sleep [kidneys failed]. She did bite my son once but it wasn't hard and she got in trouble, but he learned a good lesson. With a mixed breed you shouldn't get too much aggression, as it's not bred down a line of dogs. You do see genetic glitchs in pure breeds [and some mixed breeds bred for fighting,like Presa Carnos], but they are usually few and far between [except for the idiots breeding for fighting]. In my opinion you have a dominant type puppy [leader of the litter?] and it will need a strong personality to train it [guy's dog]. Nuetering will help, too.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), August 01, 2001.

Yes a puppy can have behavior problems by 8 weeks of age. You do not mention if the puppy is just too agressive or biting from a fear response. I purchased a Rat Terrier from the flea market about 6 years ago(I know'not a good idea).She is very afraid of people. The vet had to mussle her to give her puppy shots. We were told she needed more socializing and we should take her on aleash to the flea market to get her used to people.This just traumatised her more.She loves my husband and Me.We could not ask for a more loving pet but she does not trust anyone else at all.We have to shut her in a bedroom any time we have company.She is so small and cute people want to try to pet her with her barking and growling at them. She will attack anyone but us, but she bites from fear and not anger.This dog would not be agood pet for anyone elses home and your puppy may never be either You will have to decide this for yourself.But if the dog is afraid you should try tender loving care first.

-- Carla Sloan (twosloans@texoma.net), August 04, 2001.