Went to a Leica Day in Denver Saturday (8/4)

News from the Leica rep: Digital backs to fit existing M6 and R8 bodies within 12-18 months - may not be compatable with pre-M6 M-bodies due to design changes in the back made when the M6 was introduced (ISO contacts? - my guess). Sounds like a 'digital film' sensor using the built-in mechanical shutters. No word on size, resolution, power source, storage media, capacity, etc. - just that it WOULD be coming and it WOULD NOT be/require a separate, new body (unless you don't already HAVE an R8/M6 - 8^) )

The 90 APO/ASPH Summicron WILL be introduced in R-mount within a year - too many people prefer it to the 100 macro and miss the f/2 aperture. She also re-confirmed the Leica-designed 15mm rectilinear and a 21-to-something (she couldn't confirm longest length as 35) zoom in R mount. No word on 'porting' the R-design 50 Summilux to M-mount.

Her numbers: the R8 outsells the R6.2 10-to-1 now, but the 6.2 is NOT out of production. Yet.

Got to try all the good stuff not normally on dealers shelves - both APO-180s, the APO 105-280 and 70-180, the 80-200 f/4 (which the rep bad-mouthed as 'not up to' the APOs), 35 & 80 f/1.4 R, the Noct, 21 ASPH-M, 75 'lux. No new M-winder or 28 f/2 (sold out!)

No film back yet, but the 70-180 f/2.8 looked real good in the finder. But after hoisting all that R-glass on an R8, the 75 f/1.4 felt and focused like a featherweight!! What ARE you guys complaining about?! =:-> .

Now I've got to go process my first-ever NOCT negatives! Cheers!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), August 05, 2001

Answers

I would love to see some scans of your first ever Noct images. This is a lens I really want but am not sure how much I would use it.

-- David Enzel (dhenzel@vei.net), August 05, 2001.

I hope your Leica rep wasn't drugged or something. The availablility of digital for the M is a dream come true. Especially if it is a full frame adaptation!!!!!! I can hardly wait. Thanks for sharing this info with us.

Kirk

-- kirk r. tuck (kirktuck@kirktuck.com), August 05, 2001.

One guy from Australia a few threads back says their Leica Rep told him there's 2 new R bodies coming and the R8 will be cleared out. Now the Denver Leica Rep says there'll be a digital back for it. Seems like Leica Reps are into rumor-mongering big-time...they probably wouldn't risk getting fired, so Leica must be ok with it. Is the R8 outselling the 6.2 10:1? Not if you base your opinion on the second-hand prices and availability of the 2 models. Is the 6.2 out of production? What difference does it make...like the Nikon F3, Leica would be silly to actually discontinue it until their stocks were nearly empty, and equally silly to continue building them if they've got a substantial inventory. Personally I think if Leica doesn't have a compact mechanical body they're shooting themselves in the [other]foot.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), August 05, 2001.

No one has yet given any useful info on the upcoming so called "digital m6 conversion", and that makes me suspicious. Leica is not known for its cutting edge electronics, and is also not known for getting the best outside source to help them. I fear an expensive 2 to 3 meg 1/2 film size pickup which would be nearly useless to me.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), August 05, 2001.

Personally I would be astonished if Leica offered a digital back for either the M6 or R8. If the digital SLRs from Nikon and Canon have not opted for the digital back approach it is undoubtedly not because it wasn't considered. Unlike a Hasselblad, it would not be convenient to switch from digital to film and back in mid(film)roll, and that would be the only reason a pro (or amateur with the $$ to buy Leica) would be interested. Otherwise why not just have 2 bodies? Also, the exposure and other controls needed for a digital back are not the same as that for conventional film, so there would need to be software conversions, or lockouts of the R8's CPUs when using the digital back, and that would be much more complicated and costly than a dedicated digital body. If the digital back couldn't be sold for less than a digital body, why on earth would Leica produce it or anyone buy it? As for the M, by the time the necessary hardware was hung onto it, the M6 would no longer be the same small, unobtrusive gem...ever seen one with the previous motor-winder? A hollowed-out M6 with all-digital innards would be more practical and likely to sell. I think most of us are more concerned with seeing our investment in Leica glass find a home in the digital age, and would be fine with buying a digital body versus an add-on, and Leica must be aware of that. The whole spiel from that Leica rep sounds like blowing smoke to me.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), August 05, 2001.

Jay, your POV makes me certain that it's exactly the sort of thing that Leica management will do. Groan!!!

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), August 05, 2001.

Digital backs would be nice, but how do you get the "back" off an M6? I thought that the Leica CEO said that the digital camera would be built from scratch.

The Leica CEO also said in the chat session, I think, that there would be a smaller R camera body. If you see R8 special prices or rebates in September/October, then you can bet the current R8 is on the way out. Now whether that means that the R8 shape is finished, who knows. I was told that the R8 did not succeed in Asia partly because it's size (not weight)was not easily manageable in (generally) smaller Asian hands. This comment is not my observation, but was made to me.

It would be nice if Leica put out some definitive information rather than have different reps making "factual" statements which are contradictory.

-- wayne murphy (wayne.murphy@ publicworks.qld.gov.au), August 05, 2001.

The whole affair smells rotten. As if they're trying too hard to convince us that the R system is alive and kicking. Why? To get us to keep buying their overstock? Other than the long-delayed Motor- Drive-R8, does anyone know what and when the last piece of new R gear made it's debut? If Leica has invested R&D and plans to introduce new product to the R line, they'd better do it quickly, or at least give us more than vague rumors, or there might not be an audience when the curtain finally rises.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), August 05, 2001.

The last peice of gear I know of that was introduced by Leica for the R Series was the 50 Summilux. The new 8 element version. And if you've shot with it you know that they haven't abandoned the R's. That lens is remarkable. Light years ahead of every other 50 out. If you don't believe me would you at least do us the courtesy of trying one before flaming me? I'm so tired of opinionated list rats making pronouncements without proofs........

-- kirk r. tuck (kirktuck@kirktuck.com), August 05, 2001.

Wayne Murphy: The fold-up portion of the back on an M body can be removed at the hinges by sliding a little pin inside the hinge at the corner by the eyepiece. (Query: is this just to make servicing easier or has there ever been an accesory that actually made use of this feature?) Anyway it can be removed to allow the sensor chip to fit on the film rails.

I have no idea how big a decent digital back needs to be what with batteries and storage media - maybe it'll attach like a back but also connect to a motor-sized module under the body that holds the extra stuff - look at the original Nikon/Canon/Kodak pro digital cameras (c. 1993) - they used existing N8008s and EOS bodies and then added a motor-sized module underneath for batteries and storage cards etc.

As others have pointed out, Leica already has the S1 large-format scanning camera and the Fuji-built Digilux point-and-shoot digital as stand-alone cameras. Maybe these digital backs are the first love-child of the newly-announced relationship with Panasonic (??!!)

As to the numbers and other info - sure, I've heard conflicting information from many sources on R sales, upcoming lenses, digital, etc. I just thought I'd add this source to the mix.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), August 06, 2001.

A item nobody mentioned and could well be used and adapted is a digital ccd unit from Silicone Technologies.It resembles a film cartridge with a piece of film sticking out.Could fit any film-camera. It is still in testing but go to their site,use the name and search... I still find film easier and cheaper.To get digital a lot of machines are reqd...I have used digital,recently as a week ago.Downloaded and saw proofs in seconds but only one shot out of more than 100 was worth looking at.So much for point and shoot digital.Using my Leica I know I have at leat 4/5 good keepers on 24 roll.

-- jason gold (leeu72@hotmail.com), August 11, 2001.