Allison' s funny.

But seriously, what do y'all think about unmarried couples living together?

Have you done it? Are you doing it now? Will you never do it?

Whatcha y'all think. . . .

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Answers

Al, if you've never heard the Paul Thorn song "Living in Sin," you should go and find yourself a copy.

Seriously, though? I wish I could live in sin with my honey. I'd settle for sinning in the same state.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

I will be living in sin w/my sweetie in just 5 short weeks. I can't wait. We've spent our entire relationship apart (I in Toronto, he in England), seeing each other every 8 weeks or so, and we are so very ready to live together. So, uh, I don't have a problem with living in SIN.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Every eight weeks? How long did y'all do the LD thing? Who's moving? (If you don't mind me being all Nosey Noserton.)

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Yay for Sophie! No sinning like transatlantic sinning.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Risky business is what I think! Of course, I am old and cautious. When I was your age(s), I was just a sinner - I did not actually formally LIVE in sin. I prefer just sinning to living in it. I see no reason to have to live in it to know if "He is the one". A preacher I once knew told his flock "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it IS one" You don't have to LIVE with it to know that! Sinning with it should be sufficient.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

So......I'm a duck?

Quack.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Hey Allison - when's your birthday? For reals.

I have this really witty [piece of home decor] that says "Living in Sin" that I got when I was, well, living in sin with my ex. I bought it at one of those precious urban gift shops - you know, precious as in, if your Aunt Dottie visiting from Waxahachie walked through, she'd eye everything over the bifocals and snarkily say "well, they're really proud of this, aren't they?" and yet you must buy that journal of handmade paper and the Kiehl's lotion anyway?

Only I never unwrapped it, because we were about to move to a new apartment, and then we did but broke up. And now I'm not Living In Sin and don't ever plan to again. So, I think I should share this adorable [surprise thing] with someone that can appreciate it, and that would be yall.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

I don't mind you being all nosey, Hannah. Yeah, every 8 weeks or so. Sometimes longer. We've been together (hah! together -- that's a good one. Hee. Yeah, if by "together," we mean "separated only by 3500 miles of ocean.") 11 months, known each other about 15 months. Mr. Boy is coming here for 6 months on a tourist visa to be a man of leisure & houseboy while I slave away at school & work, then he's going back to Ye Merry Olde Englande for a while and then, presumably, coming to the US with me after I finish my librarianship degree and then we'll probably get married. So this fall & winter, we'll have all the fun of sinning and fighting over the covers, and all the weighty deciding if it's Meant To Be. I'll be sure to keep y'all posted. (Side note: is it ok for me to say "y'all"? I was born in Texas, but raised in South Jersey. Nevermind. I'm going to post that question in the Etiquette thread.)

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Sophie,

I was born and raised in South Jersey and lived in Texas, and I say "y'all" all the time. So if a Jersey boy can get away with, I figure it fine for you as well.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

We've been living in sin for almost 2 years. And even though he proposed, I don't plan on becoming an honest woman any time soon. I've been married. Living in sin is better.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

ROBYN! Why didn't you tell me he proposed? Details!

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Is it considered Living In Sin if you move in together after getting engaged? Because I know people who have done this and gotten different responses from their families.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

I think it depends on the situation, but yeah, I've seen that - where the engaged couple are just "being practical, setting up their eventual home, etc.", but the non-engaged couple are Godless heathens.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

First of all, Jo Ann, you rock, as we used to say, like Bob. My mother can barely bring herself to say my boyfriend's name, let alone contemplate the possibility of me sinning with him (or anyone else, for that matter).

[rant]I'm not kidding about the name thing. With previous boyfriends she'd at least throw in a "And how's ___?" every once in a while. She does not mention The Smoker, ever. If I mention him, there's a tiny little pause and she changes the subject, or she says, "Uh-huh," and changes the subject. Because it is such a horrible thing that her independent, Phi Beta Kappa, healthy, happy, respectable-job- holding daughter be with a man who, God forbid, left college a semester before he should have. And it wasn't an Ivy League college, either -- the horror![/rant]

Anyway. Living in sin is fine, long as you own the house of ill repute, so you can kick his ass out if he decides to sin with someone else.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Most of the people I know who disagree with it don't give much credence to a rock on your finger.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Here is a true story for y'all.

After my grandmother died (my father's mother), my grandfather decided to move in with his dead best friend's widow. Everone agreed this was a good idea. They were both getting on in years, not in the best of health, and, quite frankly, I'm not sure my grandfather could have gotten on very well living by himself.

But, being of the generation that they were, they had to get married as to not be accused of Living in Sin. People, they were 70 years old!

So the wedding comes along and my father informs his father that he can't make the wedding. Basically, it would have involved some drastic changes in plans, schedules, money, etc. And since this was more of a formality than anything else, my father didn't think it would be a big deal.

Wrong.

My grandfather refused to speak to my father for 6 YEARS.

So, apparently, trying to not live in sin can cause just as many bad feelings as living in sin. At least I think that's the point of the story.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Most of the people I know who disagree with it don't give much credence to a rock on your finger.

My parents did. I know this because every time my mother would come over, she'd sort of look around and sigh and say, "Well...at least you're engaged."

Also, before we were engaged, if she called early in the morning and ask if Master V were there, and I told her yes, she'd say, "Oh! That's nice, he came over for coffee?"

Denial is a powerful tool, y'all.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

I swear I thought I told you, Hannah. Bad friend, sorry.

I have no cutesy story, no ring-in-my-food, no trick, nothing. We were sitting in our living room reading and listening to CDs. When our song came on, he got on his knees in front of me and said all the right things, and then proposed. It was only after I said yes that he pulled his hand from behind his back and gave me the ring.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

WriterGirl, my Mom and your Mom must have gone to the same School of Inflexible, Slightly Bigoted Expectations of Boyfriend Qualifications. All too frequently, my signficant others have been referred to as "whatsisname." She knew perfectly well what his name was, but no way was that name going to pass her lips. She seems to be over the worst of it, though, since she actually refers to Mr. Boy by name, and even inquires after him once in a while. Progress is possible!

Anyway. I'm not telling my Texas grandparents about the upcoming sinful living. I'm not going to lie about it if they ask me, but I don't plan on including that information in any of my regular letters to them, either. When my parents lived in sin (both pre- and post-engagement), my grandmother went on a months-long bender. She's been sober abot 10 years now, but I see no reason to tell her things she doesn't want to know. Who am I to take away her plausible deniability?

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

As far as I know, my parents did not live in sin, at any point; they spent the year of their engagement apart (my father clerking in Atlanta, my mother clerking in NYC). In fact, I'm not entirely sure they're doing anything sinful now, after 25 years of marriage. (Another rant for another time . . . )

My mother is just not happy with the idea of sinning, even non-sinful sinning, if you get my drift. With my little brother she just doesn't worry about it, and with me . . . well.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Hi people. Columbusite here posting for the first time. Woohoo! Go me! Kidding.

Anyway, living together? Did that post college and it was a bad, bad mistake for us. My parents weren't thrilled and his parents weren't thrilled and I moved into his place and it never stopped being his place. Ugh. Bad scene. We eventually broke up after living together for 10 months.

Fast forward five years to today and my current (wonderful/in love/ going to marry this guy) situation. We picked out a house and are making an offer on Saturday. He's buying it and moving in immediately. I'll come down on weekends and do fix em up stuff (house is in Lebanon....1 1/2 hrs from Columbus) and move in after we get married. I think the ring and proposal are forthcoming...he won't tell me when he's going to pop the question, but I guess before the end of the year.

I don't want to live together with anyone again. I want it to be official and all. But that's just me and I see nothing wrong with it. At all. My two cents.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Hey, y'all. Remember when I said a forum was a crappy idea? Yeah.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

C, I hope you are every bit the duck she thinks you are!

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

HAAAAhaahahahahahaaaaah!

Ahem. Excuse me.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

Lebanon! I can *spit* on Lebanon!

So I've been living in sin for three years now, and no one in my family has said anything untoward about it, but they recognize I am an adult with my own children to deal with.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

My parents would consider living with the Rabbit from the Get In The Closet thread living in sin, even.

My grandmother claims my parents lived together briefly before they got married, but none of us kids buy that for a minute.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

"Is it considered Living In Sin if you move in together after getting engaged?"

We're engaged, we're living in sin, and I'm in complete denial. We haven't told our parents. Thankfully (I think), our parents all come from the Don't Ask, Don't Tell school. My parents know that I spend all my time over here, they know that I don't have many worldly possessions (I recently gave all my kitchen stuff and my chest of drawers to my younger sister for her new apartment), they only call me on my cell phone, and even though they know that my former roommate is about to start law school, and she lives in a different city, they haven't asked me how my unemployed ass plans on paying rent for a two-bedroom apartment, or what I plan on doing about a roommate.

So yeah, I think they know that we're living together. Regardless, I don't think it will ever come up for discussion at the dinner table.

What gets me, though, is that my (younger) brother lived with his girlfriend for several years, they didn't bat an eye.

About the denial part, y'all, I have more or less been living here since November. My bedroom furniture moved here (to the guest room) in February. For several months, I paid my roommate rent even though the only thing in my bedroom was a few packed boxes of stuff, my books, and my winter clothes. People would ask me where I live, and I would say, "Oh, Virginia-Highlands" even though I only left Vinings to pick up my mail. And now, my mail is forwarded to Vinings by the USPS.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

WG, do not be too harsh on your Mother. She just wants the best for her baby girl. I pretty much have to practice the "Serenity Prayer" when it comes to some things. Otherwise, my fears would cause me to go into meltdown and there would just be a big greasy spot of me in front of the computer cabinet!

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

To be honest, I don't know anyone who even considers the moral aspect of living in sin - apart from parents, and in my experience even they tend to be fine about it. I've never lived with a boyfriend, but my elder sister lived with her last one and is currently shacked up (ahem) with her pararmour of four years. My parents, like the good liberal Catholics they are, are pretty much fine with it - although when any of us stay in their house with boyfriends, it's seperate beds. Which I suppose is pretty hypocritical, but I can't really blame them for getting a bit icked at the thought of their kids getting it on in the next room.

The one thing that would stop me from moving in with my wonderful boyfriend is the awfulness if we broke up. I know it sounds evil and cynical, but my boyfriend lived with his ex for five years, and they were, in our social circle, the perfect couple. So after they broke up, and I saw how awful it was for both of them, it kind of put me off. They were living in a house with other friends and both had to leave because they couldn't cover the rent, and it took ages and it was just dreadful. I felt 'Jesus, if it can happen to them.... (this was a long time before me and him got together, by the way)

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

I wonder, is there a North/South difference when it comes to parental concerns about Living In Sin?

Or, is general parental concern universal, but in the South, even though people cite moral concerns, it's actually society's opinion that our parents are concerned about, rather than the God's?

I say this because many of our parents (from my experience, at least) are appalled when their daughters live with their significant others, but when their sons live with their girlfriends, it's really not a big deal. What do y'all think?

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

I say this because many of our parents (from my experience, at least) are appalled when their daughters live with their significant others, but when their sons live with their girlfriends, it's really not a big deal. What do y'all think?

I don't think it's quite as simple as all that. I think with our brothers especially T. There's a lot more going on than just gender inequity.

I know it ripped my mother UP when my brother was living with his girlfriend. But she never said anything to him because he's a grown man and he knew how she felt about it. But if I were to do it? I'd hear it. But that's also because of our relationship is different and my mom would "expect" more from me.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

On the "sinning" part, as opposed to the "living in" part, my mother has openly admitted she has a double standard when it comes to me and my (younger) brother. Which I also resent.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

oh yes. My brother did it, and no-one batted an eye.

(Where does that saying come from? "batted an eye"? am I saying it wrong? I need coffee.) For my family, absolutely it is the societal and not moral problem. We have enough black sheep and enough skeletons that the moral questions went right out the window decades ago. But, yes, "what will the ladies in the civic club think?" is very much present. So, the lesson is "do whatever you like, but don't tell us, we won't ask, and don't tell anyone else either." Just like T mentioned with her parents.

hee. You don't have a job and they can't figure out how you pay rent? they only call your cell phone? that cracks me up. Classic parent denial.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

See, Jo Ann, I know my mother loves me and I shouldn't be too hard on her because she's had a rough time this past year (taking care of my grandfather). But sometimes it feels like she has this image of me in her head, and anything that deviates from the image (such as my being happy with The Smoker) she doesn't want to know about.

The other part is that I hate censoring myself when I'm on the phone with her, and even little things such as "Oh, I was on the phone with The Smoker when . . . " become "I was on the phone when . . . " And it's just sad. A while ago (December) I said to her, "I'm happy, and I wish you were happy for me," and she hesitated before saying, "Not yet. Maybe someday." And "someday" obviously isn't going to be any time soon.

I could go on about this for ages (and have, as anyone else here can tell you). Maybe I'll understand better when I have kids.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

T -- about the North/South thing -- I think you're on to something. Or else I fear I'm just Not Your Kind, Dear (TM Pineapple). When reading the journals of you Southerners, I was really surprised at the big deal you guys made of living in sin. My parents and my husband's parents (both sets of which have been married for 30+ years) strongly encouraged us to live together before we married (which we did, for a year and a half). In fact, when my cousin announced his engagement, his parents' reaction was, "I wish they would just live together instead of getting married." Is it a religious thing? A cultural thing? People up here live in sin, have children out of wedlock, get divorced, declare bankruptcy, and nobody bats an eye. Are we crazed heathens?

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

Yay! Nobody batted an eye for Aidan either.

And, whoaaaaa. I can't believe I just got (TM)ed. That's the coolest thing I've seen all day.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

I don't think it's entirely a Southern thing, as my mother is from NY. I mean, if it were up solely to my dad, I don't think he'd be thrilled, but I don't think he'd care enough to run out and rescue his daughter from a Den of Depravity.

I think also that people who lived together themselves before marriage, or knew others who lived together before marriage, are more likely to encourage their kids. My parents both moved in pretty conservative circles (even for the early '70s -- hell, especially for the early '70s) when they were dating and getting married.

And finally, your age is a factor. If I'm 28, still not married, and shacking up with a guy, it would be a little different than if I were to do it now, at 22. (My mother is also terrified that I'll get married younger than she did -- she was 26.)

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

I'm from an entirely southern lineage, and no one cared that I was living in sin. But my partner-in-sin (Pennsylvanian) was working himself into an ulcer over what some of his family would think. I don't think it's a North/South thing.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

Pineapple -- you deserve it, baby. ;)

I'm appalled that your brothers can get away with it, but the standards for DAUGHTERS are so much higher. What the heck is that about? Why do those morals and ethics only apply to the females of the species? How do your parents feel about your brothers' sin-living girlfriends? Do they approve of these girls and hope they become a part of the family someday? Or are they just glad their son isn't marrying that hussy? (Which, come to think of it, might have been their problem with my cousin's fiancee.)

Pardon my French but I think that double standard is a load of horse shit. The age thing, I can see, but the gender thing seems creepy to me.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

Aidan: when my mother found out that several of my brother's friends and their prom dates were participating in a coed sleepover, she asked, appalled, "Where are their mothers?" Meaning the girls' mothers. She's very consistent in her double standard.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

Hee, Aidan said "Pardon my french". That shit cracks me up.

-- Anonymous, August 08, 2001

Is this a christian forum? Did i just click onto the 700 club by accident? The last time i thought the concept of living together was even an issue was back in the fall of 1984.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

It's not an issue to me at all. I think it's unwise to live with someone you don't plan on marrying (because breaking up and moving out is supercrappy), but I certainly don't think it's (cue the hankie-wavers) impropah.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

Heh. My mom used to watch the 700 Club, back in the day.

That was before she realized she, and her children, were evil to the core, and it wasn't going to help.

Hi, Nekono. Welcome to MATH + 1, where we sin and like it.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

I've been praying for all of you, actually.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001