Is anyone maintaining a sourdough starter that didn't start from commercial yeast? I have a book by Nancy Silverton called "Breads from La Brea Bakery". It is wonderful and gives instructions for making a starter from scratch with no commercial yeast. The wild yeast is harvested from the air. It starts out with flour, water and grapes. Anyway, I am on day 15 and I still don't see any activity. The mixture smells sort of yeasty but not much. Can anyone help?

-- Ria in Ky (MinMin45@aol.com), August 10, 2001

Answers

Ria, with a start from somebody else, even dried, will give you excellent results much quicker than starting from scratch on your own. It takes several months of using, and if you don't use it, take some out and feed the septic, refreshing it. The idea with sourdough is to capture natural yeast in the air, the reason why it is not good to keep it in the fridge. When starting from scratch you have to use yeast if you don't have someone elses or store purchased starter. You can go to a local bakery and ask for some of theirs! You can also capture bad yeast, I use Diamond V Yeast in my goats rations winters, you do not want this in your house with your sourdough or your cheese! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 10, 2001.

Yes, I have baked bread for years the traditional way, using either a starter that began with commercial yeast and with the dry yeast. This is just a book that someone gave me and I thought it would be something interesting to try. So far, I am not sure I am succeeding. LOL..Each day I compared mine with the photos in the book and it always looked right til about 4 days ago. It does smell like a starter but it lacks the little bubbles or activity it should. I may try it as it does smell yeasty. But I am begining to think the traditioinal way maybe better.

-- Ria in Ky (MinMIn45@aol.com), August 10, 2001.

You don't even need grapes to catch wild starters. This website is very good for showing how it's done, and has great pictures.

http://www.wanderingspoon.com/story-sourdough/ sourdough_starter_journal.html

Another good site is the Sourdough Doctor--anything you'd ever want to know.... http://www.faqs.org/faqs/food/sourdough/starters/

I keep losing this message when I go to copy this next one, but it is at I think www.culinarycafe.com and they had an article on home drying starters in their sourdough section.

Basically you spread it very thinly (an offset spatula, like you'd use for icing makes this easier) on plastic wrap, let it dry then crumble or powder it in a blender or food processor. Nice if you want to give some to friends or are moving and don't want to worry about sourdough I also read somewhere that sourdough starter makes a pretty good glue/ paste. lol

Hope these help you out.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), August 10, 2001.

I meant, "don't want to worry about sourdough spilling..."

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/source.html

This is a source for sourdough starter, check out the home page. As I read it, it is free or for a small donation.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), August 10, 2001.

Ria,

Yes perhaps I can help. I have had yeast that I started with nothing more then flour, water and sugar sitting on my counter for about 4 years.

There are several ways of getting the yeasties into your mix, one is from the Air, another is from any dark skinned fruit such as grapes, plumbs, elderberries and so on (the yeast can be seen in the white film that covers the fruit), getting a start from someone else and of course store bought yeast.

It should have started to bubble and smelled sort of yucky after about the third day. Then in a week it starts to smell like the familiar yeast we are so accustomed to smelling. If is sort of smells yestie and no real activity is going on...give it sugar or honey. Yeast needs food. Pour out half of what you have, adding more flour and sugar or honey (which ever you are using) and water to a pancake batter consistency. By tomorrow the yeast will have multiplied and started to really bubble and get yeastie smelling and in 2 days or 3 you will have to give your yeast a name! Take the grape out if it is still in there as I said earlier that was to give it some yeast to start with. Keep your yeast covered so the bugs stay out but not with a tight lid. I use fabric over my crock.

If you have any Rye flour available, use that in your starter to help give it that really sour dough flavor.

Refrigeration is to slow down the yeasties division but you must take it out of the refrigerator about once a month, let it warm up, pour out half and feed it again with more flour, water and sugar. Placing it back into the refrigerator.

To share your yeast, smear some on a piece of muslin or wax paper, letting it dry out. Then when you share it give instructions on how to start it. (Flour, water and sugar and the dried yeast you sent), In a dark cool space your dried yeast will last 6 months (but I have been able to revive it at 1 year)

Great gift is, basket with home made bread, butter and jelly along with some dried yeast started and instructions.

If you are making cheese and bread, you need to let your kitchen air out about 3 days before making one or the other as the yeasts are different and one will contaminate the other.

If you have a really great starter from someone and you leave it on your counter eventually it will be taken over by the wild yeast in your area and it will change the flavor (why most keep it in the refrigerator to maintain the yeast they desire). Wild yeast is different in different parts of the world, so my wild yeast starter will taste different then your wild yeast starter. This is why many people have 5 or 6 different starters in their refrigerators.

Wanting an outside kitchen to bake bread cause it 105 today and I still have to can peaches and apples today.

Name your Yeasties!!! they are alive.

westbrook

-- westbrook (westbrook_farms@yahoo.com), August 10, 2001.

Great stuff, Westbrook! I put a too-stretched-out-for-ponytail covered rubber band over some plastic wrap over my jar, and just keep it in the fridge between bread baking (around once a week). I stir in the flour and water to feed it, and stick it right back in. I just use it straight from the fridge a la the Tightwad Gazette Book recipe (although I started with one of those San Francisco sourdough starters) and just let the dough rise longer.

There are a lot of sourdough websites out there if you're interested.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), August 10, 2001.

Thanks to all of you. I knew that this was the place to ask such a question. O.K. The book says to feed 3 times a day doubling the amount of flour and water to accomodate the extra starter that has been produced. Is this right? Also, do I have to bake everyday? I would rather bake maybe twice a week or something. I know I am supposed to feed it everyday, but how much per cup of starter. The book never mentioned sugar or honey and said that it would feed on flour? Sounded wierd to my experience. The grapes are out. It has bubbles on top and smells yeasty and is the consistency of pancake batter but after it sits a while it will seperate with the batter part on the bottom, a clear liquid, then the frothy bubbles. Is this right? I also noticed that the amount of clear liquid has gotten less with each day. Also, I have it in a gallon glass jar with a lid, and kept in a pantry because the book said that air-conditioning was not good for it and the pantry was warmer. Should I switch to a cloth lid and if so would that also be used in the fridge? I know I am full of questions on this...I really want to do this...My grandmother used to bake the most wonderful bread. Before she died, my mother and her sisters tried to make a recipe by watching her, but they substituted dry yeast and it was nothing good. When she went into a nursing home they threw out what she called her yeast cake. What a loss! I can only try to create my own..Thanks to all of you

-- Ria in Ky (MinMin45@aol.com), August 10, 2001.

Ria you doin't have to bake every day but do feed and take some out and every 3 days or so. Put a cheese cloth on top of the jar. Keep in warm place either put frog in jar or keep stired {just kidden]. I feed mine with 1cup flour whole wheat sometimes rye 1 cup warm water and sugar or honey stir so important. If it gets lazy add 1/4 potatoe for a day or so then take out. I have made many starters for my chuck wagon but the one I have now is over 80years and came from England. Hope this helps! Coaltrain

-- coaltrain (prairierose91@hotmail.com), August 10, 2001.

Hi again Ria,

here is what I did, some of this (flour) some of that (sugar) add water and mix :) pretty easy huh! stir it every day for 3 days don't add anything else and then on day 4, pour out half and add more of this and that and water! you are feeding your new found yeasties! yes you can start it without sugar/honey the yeast will feed off the natural sugar (carbs) in the flour. Sugar I think, just helps it get going.

If a pinkish color forms on top, throw out and start over. Or if it really stinks...though I have had some smell like vomit by day 3 and turn out to be great yeast.

You don't have to bake everyday but you might have to feed everyday! (why people put it in refrigerator...slows down the growth). In cooler temps on the counter the yeast will slow down and in hot temps it really grows like crazy. The faster it multiplies the more it eats the more often you have to feed it. As to how much? some of this and some of that and water!

The separation is called "hooch" it is the by-product of the yeast. Ok, carbon dioxide is also a by-product which is what gives the bread its bubbles, but what remains in the container is alcohol 'hooch' (just don't let anyone catching you drinking it ) you can stir it back in and it won't hurt a think. If the hooch is becoming less it needs feeding because you are starving you little yeasties! oh my! (hummm, wondering if one could get in trouble for yeastie abuse!?)

If you have a lid on that is fine, but do not tighten the lid down if it is in a warm place, you see when the yeast grows it gives off carbon dioxide and it has to go somewhere...if the lid is tight, I don't want be around when you open it up!!! KaPlowie!!!!!!!! Remember the A/C (lucky you that you have A/C) just slows down the process which if you are not baking bread every day that is great! If you put it in the refrigerator, it greatly slows down its growth rate so yes you can put the lid on tight. When you go to use, take it out, pour out half or just feed it if you have space in the jar, or pour half into another container, then feed it, put it in a warm place and make bread.

Baking bread with this kind of yeast is very slow to rise, make at night before going to bed, let rise (sometimes this can take 12 hours to rise), in the morning, punch down, form and let rise again and bake!

-- westbrook (westbrook_farms@yahoo.com), August 10, 2001.

Coaltrain,

What an outstanding Idea!!!!! a frog to keep things stirred up!!!! slaps self on head..now why didn't I think of that!!!

ROFLM...well you know!!!!!

-- westbrook (westbrook_farms@yahoo.com), August 10, 2001.

ERROR..ERROR...

Correction....

you can stir it back in and it won't hurt a think

I didn't mean think...it should have been thing!!!!!

it won't hurt a thing!!!!!

that is what I get for 'thinking' the wrong finger hitting the wrong thing!!!!

-- westbrook (westbrook_farms@yahoo.com), August 10, 2001.

Flour

If you are using freshly ground wheat flour you need to add ascorbic acid to it. Ascorbic acid (crushed Vit. C tablet) conditions the flour and helps make the dough rise. I am sure some of you have tried homemade bread and had it not rise with the big air bubbles rather it was heavy and tiny holes. The flour wasn't conditioned (aged).

Another way to condition the wheat is to grind it and let it sit for about 30 days to age. Try it!

I have never researched the process of separating the bran from the flour after grinding mostly because I knew I that would be a fairly sophisticated process and another gadget on my counter I did not need! I shift as best as I can and then let the flour sit. (save the bran to bake muffins and make cereal with)

If I put the flour in sacks and let the sun get to it, in time the flour will turn white! The sun bleaches out the color!!! Now they found this out when the flour was shipped from the mills to its final destination it had the bran removed. Transporting milled flour could take months by the mode of transportation available during the 19th century. Not everyone could afford to buy already ground flour and when it arrived at the homestead it was whiter then what was being ground fresh. Then they found that is rose higher and was more tender and fluffy because it had aged.

-- westbrook (westbrook@yahoo.com), August 10, 2001.

Easiest recipe I know for sourdough bread is the one in the Tightwad Gazette Book, (probably at your library) which uses all purpose flour, and tastes just fine. I don't even use my breadmaker anymore, so will donate it somewhere locally. I keep my starter in the fridge all the time, and have even left it for 2 weeks or more without using it/ feeding it. Starters have been known to go poof! even in the fridge, so mine is loosely covered, as I mentioned above.

The "hootch" is normal, I stir it right back in. Once there was a bit of something growing on it (the hootch), I just spooned it out and the starter was fine (of course, if there'd been a lot, I would have chucked it).

My little tourist sourdough (Gold Rush, I think) packet (not commercial yeast, but a dried starter), made about 2 1/2 cups of starter (including bubbles, lol), which gives me 2 cups for breadmaking, and about 1/2 cup left to be fed. 1 1/2 cups each water (non-chlorinated-- let sit out for a day if possible) and flour, and back it goes in the fridge. Plenty for our family, and a manageable amount of starter that doesn't take up too much room in the fridge.

If you have some extra starter (or sluggish starter) you can always make sourdough pancakes. To one cup of starter, add 1 teaspoon sugar and 1/2 teaspoon EACH salt and baking soda. Whisk thoroughly. Cook on the griddle. No eggs, no fat, so you can pile on the trimmings!

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), August 11, 2001.

WOW WOW...WOW...WOW...I DID IT !!!! I just baked my first (2) loaves with the starter and it is FANTASTIC!!! I was so excited!! When I cut into it for the first time I was shocked. I could have cried and even called my mother half way across the country to tell her..It is so close to my Grandmothers it is so unbelieveable!! A major THANK YOU to all of you who posted. This may seem trivial to some but this is a mojor accomplishment for me personally. No more little packets of dry yeast here....Thanks again for all of your support....

-- Ria in Ky (MinMin45@aol.com), August 15, 2001.