I was recently having a discussion on femininity(not feminism). Seems a lot different for homesteaders than city folk. What are your thoughts? Men and women both, please.

-- Cindy (S.E.IN) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), August 15, 2001

Answers

Hi Cindy since ive not found a woman who can dig worms,clean fish and split wood. Femininity is kinda short supply around here.lol the debil after me again. Bob se,ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@hit.net), August 15, 2001.

I'm not often thought of as being very feminine, so maybe I'm the wrong one to ask! When I was growing up, I thought being feminine meant things such as: giggling incessantly about nothing in particular, wearing light pink clothes and keeping them that way, playing with barbie dolls, crying easily, being a good girl, wearing high heels and makeup, carrying a purse, never exerting oneself, always asking a boy or man to do anything that you might not be strong enough or 'smart' enough to do yourself. Unfeminine behavior included: wearing pants, climbing trees, rough housing with boys, catching frogs, building stuff, learning about things which were supposedly male territory. I was a tomboy and resented being forced into the so-called feminine behavior.

Now I wonder who defined what was feminine and what is not and why? Is it really to a woman's advantage to be so helpless and incompetant that she cannot split her own firewood if she needs to or even carry it in from the woodpile? To never try her own strength and skills to see what she is really capable of, instead preferring to admire the men who do these things and rave about how handsome and strong they are? Why should the man be our identity, isn't that putting a heavy burden on him? Why are we taught that high heels that cripple us from moving quickly or running, nylons that have to be worn carefully so they won't run, delicate clothes that cannot be worked in, are all feminine? I was taught that the Bible was the basis for girls and women being ladylike, yet when I read Proverbs 31, an entirely different picture emerges.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), August 15, 2001.

IMHO a woman can be very feminin and easily be a homesteader. I guess to me its the having the soft lines and good personality instead of a grumpy hardliner. I read once that the women miners in W.VA once had one of their own in a beauty padgent ..she came in second. Its kinda a state of mind and a projection. Shoot why did you go and ask me a question like that. I know in my mind, but can't explain it on screen.

:o)

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), August 15, 2001.

Yup Ken it's hard to put in words [my thoughts] also boco your right....their in dam short supply around here.....way to many sheeple that don't count.......

-- Jim-mi (hartalteng@voyager.net), August 15, 2001.

I'm with Rebekah almost exactly on this. BUT I will tell you this, from personal experience....Most men are very threatened by a woman who CAN do for herself the things that are generally reserved for the man. They might like the idea, but the real life fact makes them feel unnecessary, even though that isn't at all the case. It's sad, but guys, tell me...isn't that the truth? I wouldn't mind admiring some nice strong man (he'd need to have a nice strong brain as well!) splitting the wood for me. Sometimes it would be nice to just have a bubble bath with flowers while someone else did the smelly work. :}.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), August 15, 2001.

I can do almost anything a man can , I sometimes just don't want to .I can run a chainsaw , split wood , hay a field , pull a calf ,castrate one too ! I can build new fence or a porch , how about those new calf pens ? did them too .I can shoot an apple off a mans head {hehe} or the skunk in the barn without thinking twice.I cwn also put on a pretty dress and heels , curl my hair and maybe a little makeup and go out on the town , I can keep up with the talk at the auction yard or with the ladies at the company party .It's my choice what I would like to do and thank God I live in a country where I can choose.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), August 16, 2001.

Let's face it, men and women are different, thank God! I don't see any harm in women doing some of the things men do but there is a limit, at least for me. I'm not that strong. My husband and I did build our house working together side by side but he did the heavier things. I don't go around in dresses and lace. Definitely jeans around the farm but I do like to dress up now and then, but that is usually only for church and funerals. We just are not party people. I think you can wear jeans and still be feminine and I'm not talking sexy! I do feel there are definite roles for men and women and there is too much unisex right now. If my husband wanted a husband, he would have married a man!!! Interesting question, Cindy.

-- Barb (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), August 16, 2001.

I think Ken described it pretty well. And I agree it is hard to "write down" those traits that encompass femininty. In much the same way that all women are not ladies, the same holds true for femininity. But, when you encounter a feminine lady, you know it. Even if you cannot define it.

And lest someone think to be feminine equals weakness, I suggest the exact opposite to be true. Indeed, rather than rejecting the God- given ideals & nature of Woman, to accept and embrace those traits brings with it a certain "power". And the use of the word "power" here does not imply "throwing over" or " to usurp." But rather a natural cementing of position, if you will. And truly something set in cemment is secure indeed. And this need not be manipulative, as I am sure someone is thinking (LOL), but rather a joyful embrace! To embrace the very characteristics that set us (women)apart from men.

Some of the traits Rebekah described above bring to my mind a vision of a silly little school girl, not femininity. I also think that the view a woman holds of men is fundamental to femininity. Are they the enemy, the means to an end, the obstacle? Or rather, are they the friend, the ally, the provision? Now, now don't get excited about the useage of the word provision. I use it in the broadest sense of the word. As in Man, by divine providence, endowed with those characteristics that provide for a society. For the safety, well-being, guardianship of principles and ideals that make life worth living. On a different level, the value a man brings to the family.

So, in essence, femininity is the reveling in the distinctive differences between woman and man. Even while partaking, or participating in those area's more inclined towards the "masculine" model.

As Ken stated, beyond the obvious "curve" difference, it is an attitude. A worldview. A foundation on which, I believe, societies stand or fall on. Needless to say, I think this is a VERY important question. But, the question needs to be asked, to complete the answer, what makes a masculine man? Because in much the same way femininity has become derided, masculinity has suffered the same fate. And it is almost impossible to have one without the other.

Great question Cindy!

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), August 16, 2001.

Other than a too large of bustline, not alot of feminity going on here :) And I actually like it that my husband admires me for all my feminist natzi ways (he actually does call me that). I am very proud that I can not only Martha Stewart anybody into the ground but could very likely arm wrestle most guys and win :) I have been milking goats for 15 years!! LOL I have lots of helpless women friends, young and old, I simply find it repulsive to NEED a mans help, now being smart enough to get someone to help you or do it for you is another story! Also, finanically independant enough to pay a man to do a job for you. I think it makes for a much more equal/happy marriage when the women not only has her own money, but that a man isn't NEEDED but wanted. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), August 16, 2001.

I have to agree with Vickie. Being feminine does not equal being weak. I do feel there are definite differences between men and women besides the obvious and there is a reason God made us that way. I have been divorced (happily remarried now for 26 years) and during that time I became very idependent. The feeling of "power" was good but I do not feel that is what God wants for a married woman. The husband is to be the head of the house and he is to love and care for his wife as God loves and cares for His bride, the church. A good husband will not abuse the position of being head of the house and a good wife will not go against his wishes even if they are different from her own. Can you tell I'm a Southern Baptist? This is not to say a woman should be some "bimbo" and play stupid and silly but she should be proud of her feminity.

-- Barb (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), August 16, 2001.

Oops! sorry, Vicki! I meant I agree with Wendy!! Hope you don't take offense.

-- Barb (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), August 16, 2001.

I agree with quite a few of the answers here . . . feminine does not necessarily mean weak! When my future wife and I were dating, she was maintaining her mothers cattle on 10 acres. Although she pressed me for help in putting bales up and the real 'grunt' work, she worked circles around me when it came to fence repairing.

When we were building our home, she did lots of construction work, most of it better than I could (he said with head hung low). She has an ability to see someone doing it, then she can do it almost as well. I use brute force; she 'finesses' the job. Both of us are hard headed so makes for some pretty good arguments. Luckily, we both realize that pooling our resources make us a pretty good couple that will last.

Femininity to me means being gracious without defering to someone because of a perceived weakness. It means being able to raise a family without losing sight of your own needs. Femininity is the ability to communicate with both men and women on their respective brain lengths.

Damn hard to define out loud; I agree with Kenneth. I'll shut up now and let the next have his/her turn. Good question Cindy.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), August 16, 2001.

I love being feminine but you will rarely see me in a dress, my aversion to pantyhose and pumps limit that. I love jeans, tennis shoes, and country living. But I'm feminine. I love to work in my garden, I don't mind callused hands, or dirt under my fingernails, but I love my bubble baths of lavender, lilac, vanilla, hyacinth... oh boy, so many lovely choices! I love to wear pretty clothes, even pastels, but that won't keep me off the tractor. I hate worms, but I'll still dig them up for fishing. I'll scream if startled by a snake but it doesn't keep me from walking in a beautiful field of wildflowers. I can hold toads, frogs, and lizards for my son, and still want to be gently held by my husband. I'll go horse back riding, but I'll have make-up on. Mostly, being feminine to me, is who I am on the inside, the way I comport myself, how I hold a conversation & respond to others. I love being a woman...a strong, capable, and yes, feminine woman.

-- Lenore (archambo@winco.net), August 16, 2001.

I think whether masculine or feminine there's one thought that pretty well sums it up. We should all be strong enough to bend, the tree in the country song. And what's more wondeful than a tree.

-- Cindy (S.E.IN) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), August 16, 2001.

What an interesting discussion, and a tough one too!

The roots of the word "feminine" is in the Greek words for faithless, first referring to Eve, who believed the serpent over God. History and Godly worldview pretty much supports this definition of feminine, as does our feminist movement.

In my first marriage, my spouse wanted me to be feminine, but next to him, I had to be a spineless idiot to appear feminine. What a nightmare trying to appear weak and faithless next to a weak man! I was very happy to go back to being a strong single woman.

Now I am a strong married woman, with a husband who is strong in faith and strong in character. We do not adhere to society's gender roles but we do adhere to God's plan for us. He appreciates that I can negotiate my way through "guy stuff" and trusts me to run a small farm, homeschool the kids, run a small business and turn to him and God when I need help with things. I appreciate that he can do his own laundry, iron clothes, do dishes and be a great dad and husband and turn to God and me when he needs help.

I think it is a treat for both of us to wash off the dirt and sweat, put our nice clothes on and have a romantic evening enjoying our differences.

-- Laura (LadybugWrangler@hotmail.com), August 19, 2001.

Thank you people i had to write an essay on defining femininism you guys helped peace

-- Hello (srn3@lehigh.edu), October 01, 2001.