Curiosity killed the cat I know...But how many of you have work horses at your place? And why? Or why not? I love 'em but will probably never get any myself. Seems cheaper to get a tractor and implements (which I already have) than to get started in horses.

Just would like to hear your responses. John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), October 03, 2001

Answers

Know a couple of people that had them. Reasons why you would want them could be... What if the availability of gas/oil was in question? Or even just the supply chain? What if parts were scarce? What if you didn't want to buy a new tractor and couldn't find enough parts for the old one? What if your field was not big enough to pay for the tractor, but could possibly pay for a horse? If you want to go in debt, how far do you want to go? You can always grow your own feed. They are beautiful animals. However, they require more attention than your tractor on most days. :o) Both require up keep.

-- notnow (notnow05@yahoo.com), October 03, 2001.

Hey John! Lil Dumplin has a work horse-----ME and OLE CALVIN! We don't eat much [yeah right] and are quiet [right again] and are easy keepers.

Now, if I may be serious [ ALMOST impossible for me] I would much prefer a work horse than a tractor. Those tractors are alright but--- -own'n a draft horse is really neat. Those old dudes are real good company with personalalities of their own! When was the last time ya'll saw a tractor like that?

Ya'll need to come have a "look see" at Jeeps old mule---Jake! Yup-- he's still alive at about 44 yrs or so. We lost count.

Old hoot. Matt.24:44

-- old hoot gibson (hoot@pcinetwork.com), October 03, 2001.

No work horses..too expensive an upkeep.Neighbors here who have horses were telling us the other day that they are paying $25 for a large rolled bale of hay. Next door fellow just bought 300 bales for his horses for the Winter!!!!!! We are talking about getting a pair of mules though. Tractors are way too expensive, we have enough land for mules and goats (8 acres) and a hay field. There is an ad in the local paper here for a mule team, tack and wagon for $2500. Not bad. Still too expensive for us, but we will keep an eye out for a bargain.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), October 03, 2001.

No work horses yet, but we've been considering getting either two horses or a pair of calves to raise for oxen. Oxen can be cheaper to get started with, as yokes are a lot cheaper than harness for horses. If we get horses they will probably be BLM mustangs, so would be small work horses rather than big draft breeds, and wouldn't need as much feed. We don't have enough land to justify the big horses.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 04, 2001.

Thanks all. I've had a hankerin' for work horses for a long time that I've successfully repressed till lately. Have had a subscription to Small farmers journal-practical horse farming for quite awhile on & off. Great publication BTW.

After going to Horse Progress Days this year, I've been thinking more and more about it. We rented out our small pasture area to a woman for her 2 horses earlier this Summer and I was amazed how my youngest son took up w/ them. No fear. He had them competing for his attention in only 2-3 days. Besides, it looked right to look out the kitchen window and see horses.

I don't know where this will lead to, probably nowhere, but I wanted to hear from any and all here. Keep it coming. Thanks again, John

-- Joh in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), October 04, 2001.

I have a young Belgian stud .I am not sure if he will ever do any work but I fell in love with him.He is broke to harness and ride.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), October 05, 2001.

John,

Years ago I used to work a 60 acre place in rugged, mountainous country and I was too poor to pay attention. I'm a lousy mechanic, so I got the whiz bang idea to get some horses to plow and snake logs off the mountainsides. I bought a retired barrel racer mare and a Belgian/Percheron stud colt. I got some harness, a single stock plow, and a double shovel at trade day.

Without telling you all the wild adventures horse farming can give you, let me simply say that a tractor is THE ONLY WAY TO GO!

Horses require constant DAILY attention in order to keep them in good working condition. Working with horses is DANGEROUS (they can pop out of neutral real easy). Unless your ground is soft and you never take them on the road, work horses need SHOES, and big shoes at that.

I could go on and on, and you may in fact be uniquely suited for draft horses. If you like horses, draft horses are nice big slow calm stupid horses. But any way you look at it, they are p-ss poor substitutes for tractors.

-- Rags (RaggedReb@aol.com), October 05, 2001.

We have horses, but are not using them for farming, yet. They are not draft, but they can still do some work. We are going to always have horses anyway, might as well harness the horsepower. My dreamhorse is a haflinger for work and trail. Short, wide, calm and my butt will never be bigger than hers. Not all workhorses have to be monster size animals. There are many small draft animals. Even a team of shetlands can do an incredible amount of work.

I was reading Small Farmers Journal at the library and subscribed as soon as I got home. Its a very exciting magazine! I am especially interested in the horse-powered treadmill power plant type stuff. I need an engineer for that!

For those of us who get along better with critters than greasy buckets of bolts, draft animals are the way to go. They mow the lawn and fertilize it, too when they are not working. Some folks, like my Dad, claim they don't want a tractor that burns fuel while its parked. To each his own.

-- Laura (ladybugwrangler@hotmail.com), October 05, 2001.

Our Molly

Molly - our big, beautiful Belgian, age nine, plows, eat corn shucks from my hand, has dinner plate feet, is 2000 lbs, rides one or two or sometimes three at a time, neighs when I drive up from work, is awesome pulling logs, and dainty when pulling a wagon, is up before dawn and never stalls even in cold weather, is quiet when working, has deep brown pools for eyes and she genuinely warms our hearts by being. Yes her harness is heavy and I have to stand on a stepstool to put it on her, but she waits patiently until I give her the word to go. She's not greedy when eating, Ever gentle, she steps so carefully around my son who feeds her, very careful to look first then step up to the trough. A work horse and a friend, a babysitter when pulling the rock boat, and ever so calm and trusting. You might say well that's a broke horse, but then we'd say how did she teach us the first time we harnessed her, that we did it wrong? She didn't move when asked, that's how. So we studied the harness and found our mistake and then she stepped forward. Molly has taught us that logs should move a certain way up hill, and if the rock boat is too heavy she stands still. We take a few off and she moves forward, less wear and tear on her I suppose. She's taught us patience and given us the chance to listen to the birds and the squirrels in the woods. Most of all, she taught us to slow down and enjoy our farm. Expensive, it's all relative, do you get out of the tractor what we get out of our Molly. That's why we bought a work horse instead of a tractor.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), October 05, 2001.

That was BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! Thanks so much for sharing that. The quiet working and the communion with nature is what is most appealing about animals. When I lived in LA it struck me that God didn't create anything that polluted. Sure we cause problems through over crowding and turning life into a factory venture, but I think you all get my drift.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 05, 2001.

Well I'm getting what I asked for. I guess Rags and Molly give valid reasons, pro & con, from both ends of the spectrum.

I don't really have the extra dough right now to invest in horses but..... after\listening to this, it makes me think a guy should maybe have horses AND a tractor if he could swing it.

With the size of my little place I could get by w/o either tractor or horses. I guess I like 'em both for different reasons. I'll have to stick w/ the old farmall for now. I have come up w/ money to fence almost the whole place from this recent contract job I just finished. That's a start and it more than doubles (probably triples) the pasture availability I now have.

Thanks for sharing all of you. Please feel free to add any more as I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested in this this subject.

-- john (jsmengel@hotmail.com), October 05, 2001.

John, in reference to Rags, anyone who takes a retired race-horse and a young stud colt and puts them in harness together, deserves what they get!! Don't be mislead -- horses are big animals and deserve respect, and they do need to be watched because they can jump in unexpected directions if startled, but if you get a good well-trained team, and get some training yourself, you'll be happy with them.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 06, 2001.

Been around alot of different kinds of horses in my life. Owned a couple of Arabians and a Thoroughbred years back. Used to watch the Amish use Quarter horses as well as Belgian mares to plow their fields. Horses have as many different personalities as people..some actually seem to like pulling plows, others put up such a fuss it's just not worth it. Farrier and vet bills differ from place to place, so where having a horse in one part of the country can be quite expensive, other areas are no more $$$$$ than maintaining a tractor. My Amish neighbors had buddies who made horseshoes and did their own general vet work, as well as made tack. The more time and expertise that a person has around horses, the cheaper they are to have..but I would never go so far as to say they are "inexpensive" in the long run. Although, it would take alot of horse to work up to the price of a new tractor worth its' salt! My advice would be to seek out "horse people" in your area. Learn,if you wish, how to do your own foot care and harness repair and simple general health measures. Then price those nifty tractors as well as replacement parts for them. I'd rather smell fresh manure than tractor exhaust anyday, but that's easy for me to say..no money for a tractor if I wanted one, and too darned old and broken to start handling horses again on a daily basis....oh, one more thing...you can drive a tractor into the shed/barn and go out of town for two weeks on a visit..it won't complain, kick the barn wall or need to be fed and groomed and exercised in the dead of Winter. On the other hand, you just cannot snuggle up against a tractor at the end of a working day in the fields. God bless.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), October 06, 2001.

The only real drag about horses is they lack PTO.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 06, 2001.

I don't know about that, Doreen. The mare I am training now has quite the Power Take Off!

-- Laura (ladybugwrangler@hotmail.com), October 07, 2001.

Kathleen,

I didn't work a "race horse" with a "colt". I had a single set of harness and worked them singly. I raised the Belgian, greenbroke him to harness, and only pulled light loads with him until he was a 2300 pound adult. A barrel racer is a strong fast horse, usually a quarter horse; my mare was old and trained to a cart and the plow before I bought her.

If women knew as much as they act like they do, they would be dangerous, instead of just spiteful and arrogant.

-- Rags (RaggedReb@aol.com), October 08, 2001.

Rags without women where would you be ? oops nowhere .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), October 08, 2001.

Rags, how was I supposed to know that? Re-read your first post, and see what it sounded like? I've been around race horses and retired race horses, and unbroke colts, and I do know what I'm talking about, you just didn't make yourself clear. And grow up and don't call names!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 09, 2001.

Rags,

Your first post did seem to indicate that you used these horses as a team. Race horses can be Quarter horses, TB, Arabian, or Paint-there are approved races for all those breeds. Barrel horses are generally Quarter or Quarter crosses but my barrel horse is a Morab.

Your colt really topped out at 2300 lbs? How many hands was he? That's big for a Belgian they're usually middle of the road with Percherons being smaller and Shires being bigger.

I would love a draft horse...and I'm working on it (grin) I've just about got hubby thinking it's his idea to get one. I think all we'd need is one for now- just to pull a small stone boat, and pull cut logs in the woods.

I am dangerous, Rags. I don't claim to know everything about horses but I do have 30+ years of experience teaching, training, and just plain riding.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), October 09, 2001.

John,

I love looking outside and seeing our three grazing in the pasture. I don't mind feeding, and cleaning either- it's a labor of love for me.

I love all horses but drafts have a special place in my heart because of their (usually) gentle nature.

I'd whole heartedly tell you to get some horses--you won't regret it.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), October 09, 2001.

Thanks everyone. Hang in there Rags! It'll be ok. You girls give 'em a break and remember he's a guy and can't help it.

I really don't have the dough right now to get a horse/horses even tho I would love to. To many priorities ahead of that.

I had an old horse as a boy that probably had some draft horse in 'em judging from how he was built. He was smarter than I was and taught me a bunch. I had a lot of fun for a lot of years w/ him. We made a "harness" from an old tire to pull us around in the snow one winter. I didn't know any of the proper commands for him, but we did alright, cause he knew what I wanted maybe. I never used a saddle or bridle when riding him once I got to know him well. We did the paper route and everything together for 8-9 years. He would go anywhere and do anything I ever asked him to. Me being a knucklehead kid, that maybe wasn't always good for ol' Major. He was old (18 or so) when we got him, and like I said he & I had 8-9 years together before my Dad sold him.

Yeah, I'd like to have some horses and a new tractor! John

-- John (jsmengel@hotmail.com), October 10, 2001.

I work with logging horses and there one thing to remember.A good horse is worth his weight in gold.Abad one can kill you real quick.

-- rob (horses wild like 2002@yahoo.com), November 10, 2002.

3 but i have a question how many kinds of horses are there?

-- shelly taylor (shellytaylor321@hotmail.com), June 09, 2003.

I choose tractor all the way, not that I don't like horses, I love them and have a few, but they are pricey. Grain, hay, tack, vet bills and farriers (blacksmith) add up quick. Where as with a tractor you just put in gas and oil and go, of course you have your occasional break down but the cost is no where near as when your horse "breaks down" I'd love to own a draft but simply can't afford one. Take the cost of a "regular" sized horse and double it. But of course drafts are easy to work with, tend to have great temperments. And rags, if you think a draft is a slow, stupid animal your dead wrong. They can move, I have a neighbor down the road that raises Shires, the largest breed of horse on earth and they just tear up the pasture. They could out run a tractor, since most tractors only go about 25mph top speed and horses average about 35mph. Kathleen, Don't want to sound rude or all knowing but Mustangs don't make very good work horses, maybe they could pull a small wagon or sleigh but as far as farm work not the best way to go. They're a light breed, not built to pull. Try a Morgan, if you want pulling power or even Haflingers. (pony size with belgian power)Both also make great saddle horses. But if you just want to ride, Mustangs are great, fast learners, and easily tamed as long as you've got the experience. There are also a lot of great retired Standardbreds (harness racers) out there looking for a home. most come "pre-trained." The Amish usually choose them because they are great wagon horses. There are probably about 200 horse breeds out there. Quarter horse, Palomino, Thoroughbred, Friesian,Apaloosa, Andalusion, Belgian, Shire, Gyspy-Vanner (though not quite considered a breed yet), Lipp Paso Fino, Fabella (miniature horse) Welsh, Clydesdale, Well, ect ect... Check out http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/ a good sight to find out more about horses.

-- Angie Clark (Briar_rose2713@yahoo.com), November 21, 2003.

Check out EBAY for horse equipment deals. I bought a horse drawn mower, rake, plow, cultivator, harrow and planter, that cost me a total of less than $400.00 (including parts). Also, look at B.W. Macknair's equipment forsale (www.macknair.com) and Farmer Brown's Plow Shop (www.farmerbrownsplowshop.com). If you want horse deals, check out (www.pmu.ca) for adopting drafts. It would be a labor of love but what an investment. I prefer horses to tractors. Maybe even oxen(www.berrybrookoxsupply.com). I have worked both on and off the farm. You will find no greater friend or faithful companion, that is willing to give their all to you, then animals. Lastly, I agree with the women about rags first posting. Uffdah Mag!

-- Cort Bernier (corpuppy@yahoo.com), January 31, 2004.

I wouldn't want to log any other way. This is the most rewarding way to work there is. Some people site cost as a reason for not using horses. If you can't make it with horses,you simply can't make it. It is a low volume way to get your logs,but you have no outragous skidder payment either.I love it and will never change.

-- Don Foley (dfoley01@twcny.rr.com), February 21, 2004.

We own 1 TB and 2 drafts (Percherons) Maybe a tractor is easier, not really sure about that, but I have never come out to the barn and found a baby tractor. My tractor has never comes when I call, nor follows me across the field. I can show my horse where to hook up and after that, he will keep doing it until I stop him, my tractor just never gets the idea. My tractor poops out fumes, my horses poops out fertilizer. They spread their fertilizer on the fields, my tractor dumps oil that I have to take somewhere to get rid of. I pay $11.00 per big round bale (1200 lbs) delivered, and I get anywhere from $750 to $2000 for foals. My horse runs on what I grow, the darned ole tractor makes me go to town and buy fuel. My tractor never acts like its happy to see me in the morning, it just sits there. My horses let me know when someone they know comes in the yard, and they let me know when someone they don't know is there. My tractor just doesn't care if some dog is killing my sheep. My horse always starts on a cold morning, my tractor (and sometimes my truck) doesn't do that. My horses use American made fuel, my tractor has some kind of personal relationship with Bin Laden (imported fuel from countries that hate our guts (Maybe my tractor thinks it is an Arab). Nobody wants to borrow my horses - everyone wants to borrow the tractor. (have you ever noticed that if you own a tractor, all your neighbors think they have a tractor) My horses can plow snow, plow fields, plant stuff, lift stuff, drag stuff, AND, they load themselves in the trailer when we want to go somewhere. And, what I really like, is that we can go places where motorized vehicles are not allowed. I just can't imagine taking my tractor camping, hunting or fishing. They don't allow my tractor on the game lands, (or my truck or ATV, either), but when I get there, and if I should happen to get hurt, I get a ride back out to the truck. Can you tell, we really love our horses.

-- Beth Decker (oroblanco@yahoo.com), April 19, 2004.

My family raises Shires. We have for about 15 years now. Currently we have 12 horses on the farm. We train, show, plow with, breed, and work these horses on a daily basis. Yes, tractors are easier (more idiot-proof) and more economical; but horse-farming is a dying tradition that is worth holding on to. These amazing animals go out there and give us their all every time. Many times, they can get to places a tractor couldn't. They can do amazing amounts of work and still have energy to carry the kids around at the end of the day. They are sweet, big-hearted animals and will give back 10x what they get. Draft horses are expensive. Not only do you deal with the prices of food, shoes, vet-bills, equipment, etc; but there is also the incredible amount of time required for the care and training of these animals. For our family, it is a labor of love. We're not in it for the money or because it's easier. We're in it because we love what we do and we love the rewards of our labor. Big, beautiful, intelligent, animals that do more than their share of work around our farm. If you are going to get into the draft horse business, do it right. Don't be afraid to spend money. Buy quality animals, quality equiment/food, and make sure you find someone who knows what they're doing to help you through the process.

-- Sara Van Dyke (sara_vandyke@ddouglas.k12.or.us), May 06, 2004.

Drafts are the ultimate ATV!!!

-- Elizabeth Gillibrand (Elizabeth@blackfoot.net), May 27, 2004.

I know little about horses other than having taught horsebackriding at a YMCA ranch camp years ago. I have the most fond memory of being at the ranch when the campers were at an outpost. I needed to get back to the outpost and all that was available were some work horses. I bridled one, with no saddle and at about 6 in the morning on a crisp June morning rode this gentle giant who just seemed to want to please me to the outpost. The body of the horse kept me warm as I made my trek. The sun was coming up and I passed the corn fields on way. The large strides taken easily one by one was so much in rhythm with that world. And I felt in rhythm with the world. What a glorious feeling!!!

I just happened upon this site and very much enjoyed all the stories that all of you told, and just wanted to share this. This is GREAT stuff!!

-- Vireau (gvirant@1st.net), June 24, 2004.

I JUST MOVED TO KENTUCKY,FROM CALIF. WE OWN A BEAUTIFUL 5 ACRE RANCH. I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT DRAFT HORSES FOR ABOUT A YEAR. WE HAVE 25 MILE'S OF RIDING TRAILS HERE,AND 3 EMPTY PADDOCKS. WE HAVE A HUGE BARN,BUT THERE ARE NO STALLS IN YET. BEING FROM CA,WE ALWAYS HAVE SUNSHINE. IWOULD NEVER WORRY ABOUT HORSES THERE. WHAT DO YOU DO IN THE WINTER BIG STORME'S LIGHTENING TORNADOES ETC... DO YOU JUST TAKE YOUR CHANCES? I JUST HEARD OF SOMEONE LOSING THERE BARN,WITH THER PET POTBELLY PIG INSIDE, IS THERE ANYONE IN OLDHAM COUNTY,KENTUCKY THAT OWN'S DRAFT HORSES? I HAVE ALSO LOOKED AT PMU HORSES. I JUST LOVE THEM ,AND WOULD JUST USE THEM AS TRAIL HORSES. I LOVE THERE TEMPERMENT. ANYBODY HEAVE PMU HORSES IN KENTUCKY CLOSR TO LOUISVILLE? LOVE THIS SITE KRISTY AND KRIS

-- Kristy and Kris (lindebrekke@bellsouth.net), August 13, 2004.