I heard this morning that in Florida, the fella who died from Anthrax (pray for his family); well, the authorities took samples of his workplace and fellow employees, and found anthrax. Sent everyone home and closed the building. Hmmmmm. Also, just read an article that the Chinese are coming into the picture to fight against the U.S. and Russia....doesn't it tell us this in the Scriptures, that they would do that? Hmmmm, again. My Sweet Husband is really nervous. Never seen the man on his knees as much as this time! Praise the Lord!!! Keeps looking at me strangely and asks me where all the calmness is coming from, aren't I worried? I keep speaking to him about the "Peace of God that surpasses all understanding"....what a wonderful time to witness to our neighbors, families and friends. Use this time that satan would have us forget the Father, and use it to draw others to Him instead. Our redemption draweth nigh. In His Grace, Sissy

-- Sissy Sylvester-Barth (iblong2Him@ilovejesus.net), October 08, 2001

Answers

Where did you find the article on China's involvement into the conflict? I'd like to read it.

-- StevenB (thicketyrowfarm@aol.com), October 08, 2001.

I checked the CNN and all the networks web sites for any word about the Chinese..zero. Today on CNN I heard that China has joined Indonesian and Phillipine government leaders in supporting the military actions of the US and Great Britain as long as targets were geared towards military objectives VS civilains at large (bomb airports but now cities full of people on pupose).The Chinese also announced on Sunday that they would gladly share any intelligence information they have with NATO regarding terrorist activities. Where did you read otherwise???????????????????

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), October 08, 2001.

China Moves Forces into Afghanistan 6 October: Before even the launching of the major US military offensive in Afghanistan, long Chinese convoys were carrying armed Chinese Muslim servicemen through northwest China into Afghanistan, according to DEBKAfile’s intelligence experts. They were sent in to fight alongside the ruling Taliban and Osama Bin Laden’s Al Qaeda. Their number is estimated roughly between 5000 and 15,000. Our sources report another three convoys are behind the first 3000, who crossed the frontier Friday, October 5. They are entering Afghanistan along the ancient Krakoram Road to the Afghan-Pakistani border, through the Kulik Pass of Little Pamir, which is situated in one of the highest and most remote regions of the world. Beijing is deploying this force in two places: A. Whakyir, the Kirgyz tribal encampment near the Little Pamir-Tadjik frontier, opposite the swelling concentration of US and Russian Special Forces and air strength The Chinese have brought with them Kirgyz fundamentalist militants from the Ferghana Valley of Central Asia, as interpreters. From Whakyir, the Chinese generals believe, with Bin Laden’s and the Taliban’s tacticians, they will be able to block off the movement of the US-led force from its rallying point in Dzhartygumbez, Tadjikistan, no more than 35 miles from Little Pamir, into the mountains of Hindu Kush. B. Jalalabad in north Afghanistan, at the foot of the Hindu Kush range. DEBKAfile’s Chinese sources reveal that, immediately after the terrorist strikes in the United States on September 11, the Chinese intelligence service, MSS, handed in to the defense ministry in Beijing their estimation that the United States would go to war to overthrow the Taliban regime, for the sake of which it would sign a pact with Russia. The Chinese leadership viewed this eventuality as the most significant shift in the global balance since the 1962 Chinese-Russian feud, with dangerous implications for China’s world standing and its interests in Central and Southwest Asia. They decided it must be counteracted. The only satisfactory outcome of the Bin Laden crisis in Chinese eyes is the redeployment of Japanese-based US troops to the Persian Gulf, when the Kitty Hawk carrier moved the 3rd Marines Division out of Okinawa last week. Chinese intelligence did not miss the absence of fighters and reconnaissance craft on her decks. The planes stayed behind, but the very fact that the Kitty Hawk is no longer within operational range of the Straits of Taiwan leaves the disputed island with diminished protection. Beijing also took note of additional US military movements, including the Army’s 10th Mountain Division based at Fort Drum, New York and that of another formerly Pacific-based unit, the 25th Infantry Division, out of Hawaii to the Persian Gulf. According to DEBKAfile ’s Far East experts, the removal of substantial US military strength from the Pacific Rim opened the way for Chinese intervention in Afghanistan and its effort to slow down the US-Russian advance. _____________________________

-- (no@no.no), October 09, 2001.

I found this on the Hallindseyoracale.com sissy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Editor's note: DEBKAfile's electronic news publication is a news-cum- analysis live wire, online round the clock seven days a week. A weekly edition, DEBKA-Net-Weekly, is now available through WorldNetDaily.com. Drawing on DEBKAfile's unique sources, analytical talents and forward-looking insights, it is presented as a compact, intelligence-angled weekly package. It is available as a direct e- mail feed or via the Internet.

© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Long Chinese convoys were carrying armed Chinese Muslim servicemen through northwest China into Afghanistan to support the Taliban militia prior to today's U.S. offensive, according to the intelligence sources of DEBKA-Net-Weekly.

The DEBKA sources report the troop strength of the Chinese columns at between 5,000 and 15,000. The first troops reportedly crossed the border Friday.

The troop movements are reported along the ancient Krakoram Road to the Afghan-Pakistani border, through the Kulik Pass of Little Pamir, which is situated in one of the highest and most remote regions of the world.

Beijing is reportedly deploying this force in two places:

1. Whakyir, the Kirgyz tribal encampment near the Little Pamir-Tadjik frontier, opposite the swelling concentration of U.S. and Russian Special Forces and air strength. The Chinese have brought with them Kirgyz fundamentalist militants from the Ferghana Valley of Central Asia, as interpreters. From Whakyir, the Chinese generals believe, with bin Laden's and the Taliban's tacticians, they will be able to block off the movement of the U.S.-led force from its rallying point in Dzhartygumbez, Tadjikistan, no more than 35 miles from Little Pamir, into the mountains of Hindu Kush.

2. Jalalabad in north Afghanistan, at the foot of the Hindu Kush range. DEBKA's Chinese sources say that, immediately after the terrorist strikes in the United States Sept. 11, the Chinese intelligence service, MSS, handed in to the defense ministry in Beijing its estimation that the U.S. would go to war to overthrow the Taliban regime, for the sake of which it would sign a pact with Russia. The Chinese leadership viewed this eventuality as the most significant shift in the global balance since the 1962 Chinese- Russian feud, with dangerous implications for China's world standing and its interests in Central and Southwest Asia. Beijing reportedly concluded such an alliance must be counteracted.

Subscribe to DEBKA-Net-Weekly.

-- Sissy Sylvester=Barth (iblong2Him@ilovejesus.net), October 09, 2001.

As citizens of a country at war I think we have an obligation to each other to quote proven, reliable sources. Misinformation is a form of terrorism and will lead us all to fears beyond what the situation warrants.

I would imagine there would be some elements of truth in the report of movement within China but it is important to have ALL the facts when evaluating what that means. China has been having trouble with the Islamic fundimentists within their own border. Given their stance on ALL religions, IMHO there are most likely people who feel loyal to bin Lauden and would move to fight with him. That does not mean that it is sanctioned by the Chinese by any means, as they are already having problems with them.

Given the sensationalism of this story, I can not imagine that it would not have been picked up by the mainstream media, or even the proven underground media.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), October 09, 2001.

agree with diane 100%..half-truths are sometimes more interesting, but do nothing but muddy the water.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), October 09, 2001.

Now c'mon. Half truths are terrorism!!!??????!!!!That, my friend, is a load of hooey....and just the kind of slinging around of a catch phrase that gets innocent people imprisoned for the treason of questioning the government.

Besides the above story was on World Net Daily which is a proven alternative to NBABFCBS. How about the recant on the second case of anthrax now proven? Which I first saw on WND then when I went back----- -nothing there.Hmmm. Speaking for myself, I prefer the truth as opposed to state run media.

We all better check our sources, but it sure as heck isn't terroism not to. Stupid maybe, but not terrorism. I've seen variations on the above text at three other reputable news sites. We'll know soon enough.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 09, 2001.

Doreen, I was not indicating that I thought anyone here was being a terrorist!!! Or that quoted news source was. Just asking that we watch our sources. Sure was not intended to offend you or anyone here. sheesh, are we touchy or what!!!!!!!!!!! I guess if everyone wants to go around thinking China is going to fight us....go for it.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), October 09, 2001.

"Misinformation is a form of terrorism....." That sure sounds like a foundation upon which to lay the grounds to prove some poor fool as a terrorist.

I DO agree that we have to be careful what we bandy about as there is a ton of mis and dis information out there, but I contend that any source beyond CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, NPR and to a lesser degree Fox is generally closer to accurrate.

And YES, I am touchy. On September 15th I first saw they sky loaded with chemtrails here. Tonight it was even more loaded. It has freaked me out because although I have heard of them, I have never seen them before and they were everywhere. I don't like it as I have no idea what the heck is being dispersed, nor by whom.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 09, 2001.

How do you tell the difference between a "chem-trail" and the normal vapor trail from a jet?

I was listening to NPR and the guest(name??) said China has an interest in supporting US, Russia efforts in squashing the Taliban because they have their own population of extreme Muslims also and they'd be concerned the Taliban poison would spread to their own soil.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), October 09, 2001.

I cannot vouch for the rest of this site, but these photos are similar to what has occurred here lately.Chem Trails I counted no less than 15 of these trails with what looked like tendrils drifting down from them on my way home from work. Having grown up around aviation I can tell you that a normal contrail actually evaporates fairly quickly and doesn't expand to cover a huge area... and jets do not constantly run grid patterns over airspace that is not usually in their flight paths. The ones here were more prevalent than any of these photos. It was in a grid pattern covering the entire sky that I could see. The earlier siting I had only had five or so and it wasn't nearly as dense as tonight. Frankly, it's creepy.

As for China, I heard reports tonight that China has been having a lot of trouble controlling their Muslim population in the southern areas. Also that they have reportedly closed borders with Afghanistan. *I* don't know what the deal is there, but again, I think we will know before too long.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 09, 2001.

Misinformation is a form of terrorism....." That sure sounds like a foundation upon which to lay the grounds to prove some poor fool as a terrorist.

Sounded like a statement of a fact to me, but then I am not going to continue to argue with people that would prefer to be frightened and upset. These are trying times and I was simply trying to point out a fact...........terrorists will use all sorts of unsuspecting people to spread fear. If you chose to believe I thought it was someone here, I can not more change your mind about that than I can change your bent toward hysteria. We have certainly not always agreed on issues Doreen but I thought you knew I had some degree of fair play in me. I guess I thought wrong. God bless you and give you peace.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), October 10, 2001.

IMHO if I were going to get upset over the griding you are seeing it would be because I am seriously wondering WHY the AWAC's are so intent on making their presence known. It, if I understand correctly, is only done when they want to intimidate or warn. Otherwise you would never even know that they were there. All the media yesterday was talking about the huge number that are here from all over the world protecting our borders. I am really trying to find that reasurring.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), October 10, 2001.

Diane, I think you are taking this much too much to heart, my friend. It is a matter of semantics. Terrorism as misinformation ~could~ possibly fit the bill, at a serious stretch and in the form of controlled propaganda, but not as simple hearsay or a flawed news article. And I never implied that you were accusing anyone here of being a terrist, I said that kind of talking and loose use of terms could bring that "suspicion" about. Yes, we disagree a lot, but I don't think you are unfair, we just seem to speak a different language. I also want to clarify to you that I am not afraid of this situation at all. Of course, I would like to know what the deal is with these chemtrails, and I know I thought it was ludicrous the first time I heard of them, but when you actually see it, well....it's a bit more real then.

I do think that this war is extremely dangerous and unwinnable and that we will garner more enemies because the exit strategy is non existant and the attacks will be seen by those being attacked as unjustified and only engender more fighting until the last person with strong views is subjugated.

Now people are saying that if you ask any questions you aren't a patriot, if you don't get in lock step with the admisitration you are a traitor, if you don't think this is a good war, you need to leave this country and all manner of ridiculous foolishness. I think we need to answer the attacks, I think it needs to be the US that does the answering. If it is to take out the Al Qaida, then that should be what we do, if it's to rid the world of terrorism, it's like saying we are going to rid the world of greed...impossible without creating a world wide police state and killing a ton of people terrorizing the populace along the way. I think that we ought not to have German and French troops patrolling our skies and guarding our borders, I think that our involvements in other countries business is a large part of why we even had an attack, and now have a need to answer these attacks. If those are the rantings of a frightened lunatic, then so be it. But if that's the road we all want to take, then that's just the way it goes....and I just count it as one day closer to the greatest Truth of all being revealed.;}.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 10, 2001.

Thanks for the clarification Doreen. I always find it amusing that you and I can be saying essentially the same thing in very different ways. My husband and I are trying to appreciate the times that we are living in, and I think you are going along in much the same vein that we are. Sorry for the misunderstanding; we are so much more in agreement than not. I really do tend to take things too much to heart. My whole being cries for peace; the peace that obviously will only come with the end of humanity as we know it. We will all have to find a peace that surpasses understanding with our creator in these very trying times.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), October 10, 2001.

I haven't seen the chemtrails myself, but have been in touch with several people who have. It isn't AWACS planes that are doing the chemtrails, consensus seems to be that it's usually C-130's which are a large cargo/troop transport plane (I think!). AWACS planes have a large upside-down dish mounted above the body of the plane which makes them very recognizable, and they normally fly so high that a person on the ground would have trouble even seeing them.

The people who've seen chemtrails being laid in the last few days have said that this time, unlike in the past, the planes were flying very low, and the stuff from the chemtrails was actually falling onto the ground. It was described as drops of sticky liquid. I never heard of them before a few days ago, but have to say that the people reporting them seem to be otherwise sensible, normal, people, not wackos off the deep end. There have been a number of surmises as to the purpose. One was that TPTB may be attempting somehow to innoculate the population against biologicals -- if so, I appreciate the thought, but wish they wouldn't use the civilian population as guinea pigs for their little experiments! The fact that they were doing the chemtrails in areas not too far from the anthrax outbreaks MAY lend some credence to that theory. Other theories include the one that they are spraying something to make the population get sick and die, as one way to reduce the population of the United States -- that one does seem a little odd, when you consider they are primarily spraying over rural areas. Oh, well, maybe someday we'll find out what it was really all about -- maybe!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 10, 2001.

I looked at a couple of photos of those 'chem trails' and although I am no expert they certainly look like chemicals to me. Almost certainly in my opinion they ARE CHEMICAL! Probably consisting of hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and carbon and a little bit of kerosene as well.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), October 10, 2001.

Yeah, John. Sure. Maybe you need to come up and take a big ole whiff to make sure? Please explain away the grid patterns of jets over a non typical flight area. Please explain why in all my life I have been looking at the sky and just missed that there are trails in the sky that have tendrils falling down from them. And why do they turn to a darkish shade of brown after they have been there for several hous? Maybe the kerosene??? I'm sure jets fly real well on kerosene, that's why they spend so much money and time refining jet fuel.;)

-- Doreen (okay@Ibelieve.you), October 10, 2001.

Like I said, I am no expert! :-) However I do believe jet fuel is kerosene. Does anyone remember when tractors ran on 'power kerosene', which for some reason became unavailable once jet turbine engines came on the scene?

If I were to hazard a guess about the grid patterns I would say they might be related to the news stories I read that say the USA now has jet fighters patrolling domestic airspace and I guess the grid pattern is just because the boys are tired of going around in circles.

Granted however, the reports of 'tendrils' is quite puzzling but I wonder about the vortices etc that might be different if the aircraft are just stooging around at minimum speed and maybe not at optimal altitude for efficient buring of the fuel etc. Just a few thoughts.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), October 11, 2001.

Hi John, sorry I don't recall such a fuel, but I am not a fuel expert by -any- means.

I haven't had time to really look into these things to try to find photos that are truly representative of what I saw here, but if you looked at the link for the Art Bell site off of the one above the first picture there shows the tendril aspect that I saw very well. Then the second series of pics is almost a good density example, but what I saw was more dense. Seemed like if I had to put a distance on it the trails would be about 1/3 of a mile apart and then the crossing would be about the same. Some went off at tangents.

It sure wasn't fighter planes. My friend at work and I watched one lay down a crossing trail, and it appeared to be the size of a commercial jet, but it was actually pretty low for the distance from the airports that we are at here.

I'm going to see if my Dad has any friends that might be able to check in with the FAA to see what flights were over this county at a given hour. We are under severe restrcitions on flights here. If you are a recreational or samll plane pilot you must file a flight plan with the regional FAA or they will pull your tag. They issued notices that unidentified small craft may be shot down if they fail to identify or can't be identified thru flight plans. That scares the heck out of crop dusters because they don't usually have radios.

Who knows.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 11, 2001.

I feel so left out here! Cannot get my computer to click onto that "chemtrail" thing. Nothing but beautiful blue skies here in Alabama..nobody dropping anything here except birds and acorns! Maybe my mother was right when she said in her best imitation of Ted Kennedy, "I cawnt imagine why anyone with hawf a brain would actually opt to live in Alabama." I guess neither the government nor the terrorists know we are here! Yeehaw!!!!

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), October 12, 2001.

Well I have never been to Alabama, but from the photos I have seen it looks beautiful! Glad you haven't seen any weird stuff in they sky, Lesley. If you want to have a look at stuff similar to what I saw you can click on the following...it's a bit more out in the open!

More like what I saw

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 12, 2001.

WOW! those are cool pictures! How interesting! UFOs finally coming in for a formal visit? USAF engaged in a mass conspiracy to subdue the citizenry of rural America? Those photos would make Fox Muldor sit up straight and pay attention alright. Hey, there were even ones taken from Birmingham, so our covert operations here in AL must have been detected..shucks. All kidding aside, I really wish I could get as excited as the rest of you about these things, I really do. To me, it just looks like the Air Force up there playing with their toys. Maybe the National Guard guys get bored and play a sort of sky version of tic tac toe or something. I watched a military jet zoom along waaaaay up there last week and leave a gorgeous amount of nice wavy white trail behind it, exactly like the ones I have watched for 53 years. It's cool to see the tiny speck of silver airplane leading this wide swath of white "clouds" way up in the sky. well, guess I am going to have to have Neil move my porch chair out onto the lawn so I can monitor this latest government secret thing you all are talking about. Who knows, perhaps if they are spraying chemicals on us hayseeds, it will cure my neuro disease. God bless.

-- lesley (martchs@bellsouth.net), October 12, 2001.

As far as chemtrails, I think we need a meteorologist to explain how the atmospheric conditions allow contrials to hang in the air for hours. I understand it, but I cannot explain it today. (brain cramp) There has been a LARGE increase of air traffic over the past 18 months so contrails are going to be seen in areas that previously didn't have them. All of our aircraft are coming out of mothballs and are being used for military training and exercises. We've been seeing some real vintage craft doing aerobatic maneuvers over our place not to mention the underfunded experimentals that pilots need to practice with.

Now I am NOT trying to debunk the chemtrail theories because those are some very valid risks of this kind of activity. California has been sprayed with Malathion in this manner. Many of our forests ar also sprayed like this. I believe along the eastern seaboard has had this type of spraying for mosquitos carrying West Nile Virus.

You never know what will come out of airplanes. Yesterday, my hubby found what appeared to be chunks of jellyfish on the windshield of his car. It reminded me of the cartoon at ARTBELL called Plegmtrails. I was teasing him about that not being rain out there, but "ocean spray". Because of the hazzard of getting too close to things that fall out of the sky, I didn't sniff this jelly to identify it, but I think there is the possiblility that it was napalm released during flight exercises.... ....which leads me to another topic............ I am not comfortable AT ALL being protected by NATO. It ain't there Mom and Pop on the ground depending on them for security. In my mind it is the same as being under the protection and sovereignity of the UN!!!!! Oh yeah, like they care about MY constitutional rights!

Then there is China speaking out of both faces.....Admiral Thomas Moorer has been warning us for years about the Chinese military build- up with OUR money and technology, the Chinese aquiring important strategic ports and holdings in our hemisphere. His newest press release is foretelling that we will be at war with China by 2003.

-- Skywatcher (LadybugWrangler@hotmail.com), October 12, 2001.

Speaking of the Chinese, I printed off a map that shows where the Chinese commercial shipping facilities in North America are. Keep in mind that Chinese facilities, commercial or not, are all also *military* facilities -- I can't believe our own government could have been so STUPID!!!! And if they ever use those facilities to attack us, Clinton and his ilk had better be cowering in one of those caves in Afghanistan if they want to survive the wrath of betrayed Americans.

Here is a list of where those facilities are, as best as I can tell (it's one of those maps that shows topographical features, but no cities). There are five up the Pacific coast, one looks like it's at San Diego, then the next one must be Los Angeles. The next one up might be San Francisco, or it might be a little farther north -- but I don't know if there are any good deep-water ports between there and Portland, and the symbol on the map doesn't appear to be that far north. Then the last one must be at Seattle.

There are three symbols down around the Panama Canal, which doesn't surprise me, as we knew the Chinese had installations there.

There's another symbol on the map amongst the little islands north of Cuba, then one that must be at Miami or very close to it. Next one north appears to be at Jacksonville, then perhaps South Carolina? The next one looks like it's around New York, then there appears to be one in Maine, and one in Nova Scotia.

Back to the Gulf Coast, there are three there. It looks like they are approximately at Pensacola, New Orleans, and Brownsville.

So there are a total of 18 Chinese commercial shipping facilities in North America, recieving literally thousands of shipping containers every month, and a U.S. Customs official says, quote, "Ships are subject to random searches and shippers must submit documents listing ship and container contents. But there are thousands of containers which come into the ports each month. We cannot inspect each and every container - we have to accept what is on the documents as a true representation of what is in that cargo." (This was from the Orange County Register, 3/15/97)

Also speaking of the Chinese, they have been *saying* that they would use nuclear weapons on us -- and I don't believe their support for us now has changed that determination. Do you remember (I don't because I wasn't born then, but I've read about it! LOL!!) that when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, there was a Japanese ambassador or something in Washington D.C. who'd been having talks with our officials? I think the Chinese are being just as treacherous now as the Japanese were then -- and I hope our government isn't being as treacherous now as our government was then.

http://www.ki4u.com/unthinkable.htm

Here is the url for a page that talks about all this in a whole lot more detail -- it's very long, but the most recent stuff is near the bottom. If what's been happening in this country isn't already giving you the total heeby-jeebies, I just about guarantee this site will. Time to build bomb shelters, perhaps, instead of stocking up on antibiotics and gas masks? Or maybe we need all of them? But I do know it's definitely a time to make sure you've made things right with the Lord.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 12, 2001.

In essence China has us surrounded. They think much more long term than we do...

I talked with my Dad, and here's what he could tell me:

1) Jet Fuel is kerosene based and he said itt's basically "jacked-up kerosene"

2) A friend of theirs in Wisconsin had called him two years ago all freaked out about these trails and he did a bit of research...she had some oily/coal like condensation on her car and buildings. He said this could be jettisoned fuel or engine troubles causing an incomplete burn that would lead to an early landing

3) He said that depending on the altitude the chemtrails could be ice particles attached to incomplete burn, which may explain the tendril aspects....but he thought that was iffy if you could actually see the plane as opposed to that siler flash you sometimes can see when a craft is at 32,ooo feet or more. If you can see the plane it is closer to twenty thousand which is low for a jet.

4) The letter he received in response to his request of their congressman came from a "bird colonel lady", she said they were doing experiments with benign agents to track drift patterns in different levels of the artmosphere in case of biological or chemical attacks.

5) He wrote back and asked if they were benign what were the agents being used and why was the military "even dicking" around with it. To this he received no reply.

6) "Well, whatever there is that's being sprayed...IF it is, there is nothing you can do it anyway....especially now. Keep your chin up and your powder dry."

There ya go. Wisdom from da Dad. And John was right about the fuel!!!!

Back to China, then, and sorry for the massive thread drift, Sissy!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), October 13, 2001.