I haven't posted in a while but I was wondering how you guys felt about this particular subject. We have a situation here that is very bad. One of our nephews had an eight year old stepson murdered by his mother's boyfriend last thursday night early friday morning. This child has been in our family since he was three months old. His biological father gave up all parental rights after he was born, didn't want anything to do with him. My nephew became his father, the only one he ever wanted according to the boy. He seen his real father every once in a while so he knew who he was and called him by his first name. Our nephew and this child's mother never married but they had a little girl who this child loved, they even let him name her. She's three now. He was her bubba. Eventually our nephew and their mother split up and she got custody of the little girl but she spent most of the time with her father and us relatives. Whenever she came to stay with any of us her brother came to. Mom had to go, get this, to a relatives funeral somewhere in Pennsylvania. She let the little girl stay with her father meanwhile the little boy stayed with her boyfriend to go to school. When word reached everyone we of course all gathered together to grieve. When mom finally got back she stayed away from all of us. We have heard through the gapevine that her family dosen't want any of us at the funeral because we weren't related including our nephew. To make matters worse Child Protective Services came and got his daughter yesterday. Pending an investigation on whether or not he or her mother is fit to raise her. Now back to my original question. Would it or does it matter to any of you out there whether he was blood related or not? I mean i'm sure some of you out there has similar relations. Would it hurt that the blood relatives dosen't think it should matter to us? Are we the only ones that care? I'm sorry but I'm angry and upset. My husband and I haven't been able to go to work because of this.

-- Vicky Mcclain (polarghost101@msn.com), October 09, 2001

Answers

Go to the funeral. Realize that these people obviously are idiots - and yes it does hurt. You were family to this little boy during his short life. I would definitely help the nephew get a lawyer to get that little girl back though.

I am blessed because my mom has 25 grandkids - true some are step's, halves, etc. but she has always said that they are ALL her grandkids and has treated them all equally and they all adore her for this. On the other hand my MIL would be like the family you are dealing with.

I probably don't have words to comfort you, but I am certainly thinking of you and your family.

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), October 09, 2001.

Do what isinyour heart and fight like hell to get this baby back where it belongs .It sends chills up my spine reading your post .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), October 09, 2001.

What a sad situation. We have 4 sons..only 2 are "homemade". The younger 2 came from awful situations and we love them just like the others. I can't imagine it mattering whether you were blood related or not...you guys are family!! Sometimes the legal stuff really gets to me. The kids have to go through so much...supposedly "in the best interest of the children" Yeah, right. I will pray for you, and hope you all go to that funeral. This is not right!!

-- Jenny (auntjenny6@aol.com), October 09, 2001.

I am sorry for your loss. The biological family will probably make a scene if you go to the funeral. People so ignorant usually do. I would suggest you call the funeral home to ask for a private viewing for you and your nephew's family. You could have a memorial service elsewhere for your family to share your grief. It may not be the most desireable situation but at least you wouldn't have to have a confrontation with the bio family. It may not be a healthy situation for your nephew's little girl. If your family tries to avoid conflict in this situation it may be taken into account when Child Protective Services makes their report. Getting her back is the goal now.

-- Jo (mamamia2kids@msn.com), October 09, 2001.

Go to the funeral as a group even if it means mustering at a nearby location so as to then all arrive at the same time. Sign the book, make a contribution for the favored charity and conduct yourselves in an appropriate manner regardless of what else happens.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), October 09, 2001.

Vicky, I am so sorry this happened. The emotional response I have right off the bat is go to the funeral, but in truth I think Jo, who posted before me, has exactly the right idea: do everything you do with Child Protective Services in mind with the idea to get the girl back. He loved his sister, let that be his memorial, getting her back to a good home. My thoughts are with you. (((hugs)))

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), October 09, 2001.

I echo beckie's thoughts exactly. . . PARENTS are the people or person who RAISE the child, not necessarily the people who conceived him.

The mother's reaction is no doubt due to guilt over the realization that she was unable to see that her boyfriend was not to be trusted in taking care of the child. I'm very sorry for your family's grief, and pray that all of your wounds will be healed eventually.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), October 09, 2001.

I have 4 children 2 of which are from my womb and 2 who are from my heart, but we as a family make no differances between the two. How can people think that just because you didn't give physical birth to these children they somehow become lesser. How rude of them.

I would go as a family arrive all together and conduct yourself as family members and loving people should.

Blessings, Sally

-- sally stanton (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), October 09, 2001.

My thoughts are with you. Follow your heart and go to the funeral if that is what you feel you should do. But most of all help get your nephew the best lawyer he can afford and get his daughter away from the mother. If the mother is still with the boyfriend--even if he is locked up--does not mean he won't be back sometime or she could choose another man like that and be putting the daughter in danger.

-- (stephanie.wilkerson@experian.com), October 09, 2001.

Dear Vicky,

I'm so sorry you and your family have suffered such a loss. IMHO, it's what's in your hearts that count. I have friends that are no blood-relation that mean as much to me as blood-related family members. You loved this child regardless of his blood. Keep him in your heart forever.

Wishing you enough.

-- Trevilians (aka Dianne in Mass) (Trevilians@mediaone.net), October 09, 2001.

Vicky, my deepest sympathies for you and the families in this horrible situation. Love is love, blood relationship doesn't matter.

I don't know what would be best to do. It does occur to me to wonder if ONLY blood relatives are expected at the funeral? What, no friends allowed? Why would anyone who loved the child be barred, regardless of relationship? If you do go, follow the suggestions already given you. If prayer is a part of your life, I suggest you include the little boy's family in your prayers. If you can do it, I'd even suggest approaching the mother to give her your sympathy and a hug if you can. For your own peace of mind, try to forgive them.

Having said all that, I agree that your nephew should attempt to get custody of his daughter. Feeling sorrow for the mother and her family doesn't mean that they are the best guardians of the daughter.

-- Joy F [in So. Wisconsin] (CatFlunky@excite.com), October 09, 2001.

Vicky, Please know that you are in my prayers. I would have a memorial service for the child at my church with flowers and pictures. You can send the flowers to the grave site afterwards. Getting into a big fight with these pathetic excuses for humans is not in anyone's best interest. Please know that this little boy knows who loved him and he will understand. Since your nephew is the natural father, he has a very good chance of getting custody of his daughter and she needs to be in a safe loving home. Put all your energies into saving her. Ask the SRS if she can attend the memorial services with her dad. You have to love those related to you by blood, you get to love all those who are not blood related. You are obviously warm loving people who brought love into this little boys life. God bless you for that. Remeber saving the little girl from a similar fate is your first priority. Peace and Love karen

-- karen in kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), October 09, 2001.

I've got quite a few cousins who were adopted - they're still my family. I've got a niece who was there before my brother met her mother - she's still my niece, my sons still love their "cuz". Family is who loves you, and at another level who raises you and "parents" you.

I WOULD BE VERY CAREFUL HERE. It can be easy to feel confrontational, and act confrontational. This is NOT a good idea. By all means go to the funeral, but DON'T turn up "en masse" - just trickle in as individuals, and pay your respects as individual family members, not as something which could be perceived as a gang fronting up all together. Also, please recognise that the woman (as always in these cases) is almost certain to get custody. Since that IS going to happen, then fighting it will only create friction. Instead, take one step back and go for as much paternal access as you (the father, the family, the nephew, whatever) can get. This way, your family is always there if things break down, and you can then get custody. If you create a confrontational situation, then the child will be indoctrinated against your side of her family, and if the situation arises where she needs to enter her father's care, she will refuse because she's been propagandised against him (I know whereof I speak).

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), October 09, 2001.

My heart goes out to you, I've been a step-mother to boys I loved as my own, we are currently raising my oldest step-sons daughter, she's 7 now, had her since she was 2, she's just like my own. Your nephew needs to hire a lawyer, and attend the 14 day hearing, the lawyer needs to ask for the child back that day, the judge may or may not grant it, if he doesn't, he needs to ask for visitation and do everything CPS ask him to do, to get his daughter back, if he can't then the Grandparents need to do this. He's that little girls legal parent and he gets visitation but sometime they won't tell you, you can have it till you ask. OUr Grandaughter spent 9 mos in foster care due to the mother not wanting her to live with us, we were the only law abiding family she had. The foster family was great and she still visits them today, but that was all uneccesary due to the Mother's spite against us. Make sure your nephew understands and his parents they need to attend every visitation they give him, do what they ask of him also. Call them, get a repore going with the caseworker in charge.

-- Carol in Tx (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), October 09, 2001.

As the mother of an adoptive little boy (now 5 yrs old - simular situation), I can tell you that genetics does not a parent make. A parent is the one who kiss the boo boos, who stay up all night when the child is sick, the one who gives the hugs and tucks them in at night, and the one who makes them feel loved and safe!

Some idiots just think you have to be "blood" to be family. We even have them in our family -- the ones who think unless you are blood your are not "really" family.

In cases like yours they fail to see that your position should be even more special. That child was "choosen" to be part of your family. Not many people can open thier hearts for that responsibility and take it with all the genetic traits, family problems, etc. It is easy to create a child -- it takes a big heart to love a child not created by you and give take on that responsibility of going the right thing -- for the child. That child was loved into a family and your family it is!

Go to the funeral. You go with a clear conscience and clear heart. If anyone else has a problem, then it is their problem! You all did a good thing and God will bless you for it!

Best Wishes!

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), October 09, 2001.

I must confess that I have merely scanned the foregoing responses. In my unusual opinion, I must tell you that funerals are only for those who survive, not for the decedent. I must also tell you that as a Deist, I strongly believe in God, although I do not know His or Her proper name. Do as you think proper, whether that action is or is not approved by others. I do not "do" funerals, as I consider the process to be largely hype for the consumption and benefit of others, mostly religious fanatics with whom I disagree. I personally commune with the soul of the departed in my own way, and hope that the aforementioned will do his or her best to help me navigate the uncertain waters of this life. I believe there is a God. I personally cannot discerne whether the "true" God is Jesus, Mohammed, Buddah, the Dali Lama, or Jesse Jackson. But He or She exists. Worship your particular God. Allow everyone else to do the same! Believe in your God. Do not dismiss the Others!

Brad the Weird!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), October 09, 2001.

Vicky, I am sorry and saddened of your loss.

I have never married and have no children of my own. I do have a "Foster Son" (former girlfriend's son) that lived with me on and off for nearly 4 years when he did not get along with his new StepDad. I think he sometimes felt he had been pawned off on me and would often ask me why I cared for him when their was no way he could pay me back for the things I did and I would tell him to keep out of trouble and go to school was all I asked. We went through many trying times and I often felt ike throwing my hands up in defeat but I stuck it out and gave him all the Love I could. When he was 17 he decided he wanted to move up North with his Biological Father and left. I have had a few break ups with Girlfriends before but I was never so devestated as when he left. I did not hear from him for over 2 years, his Mom would not give me any info as to his wherabouts. Than about a year ago he called me and said he had moved back to Florida and would like to see me and he wanted me to meet his Girlfriend. We worked things out between us and renewed our friendship. But one of my happist days was when he called and asked me to be his Best Man at his wedding, I don't think I ever felt so happy and honored. Well 2 weekends ago I went to visit Him and his Wife's new Baby and when he introduced me to his Son as "Grandpa Mark" I had tears in my eyes. I don't know how much love a "Blood" Dad feels for his children but if its more than the Love I feel in my "Heart" for him it must be incredible! To me their is no difference between blood and what one feels in their heart!

Sorry to babble on but I wanted to share with you my thoughts about being Related by Love.

May you and your Family find peace in your heart in these difficult times.

-- Mark in N.C. Fla. (deadgoatman@webtv.net), October 09, 2001.

Mark what a great story ,sharing the same blood does not make you a dad .Being there and loving the child thru good and bad times does .You must be a great guy and any woman should feel lucky to have you .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), October 09, 2001.

Patty, SHHHHH!!! Don't say that to loud I enjoy my single life!

-- Mark in N.C. Fla. (deadgoatman@webtv.net), October 09, 2001.

Heart matters much more than blood. I'm adopted and I could not possibly love my folks any more than I already do. I always told people that my (adoptive) parents weren't my biological parents, but they were my REAL parents. Squirting a kid out of your body in no way makes a person a parent.I greatly respect my birth mother for giving me up for adoption. It is the best possible choice she could have made for me.

-- debra in ks (windfish@toto.net), October 09, 2001.

This is so very tragic and heartaching..Ultimately the funeral arrangements will be the mothers and the funeral home will adhear to her wishes. Perhaps you could contact the funeral director and possibly make arrangements for a visitation..or hope for an intermediary to help you resolve this with the mother..grief affects people so differently..my sympathy to you and yours.

-- Lynn(MO) (mscratch1@semo.net), October 09, 2001.

Vicky, Cant say what to do on funeral as you have to do what your hearts tell you. But on custody prepare your nephew as it is very hard for a father to get custody away from a mother!Probably the best he can hope for is 50/50 custody. Get a good lawyer [ ask around].Belive me I know what is a head,My husband finaly got custody of his girls 10 years ago but even after there biolocical mom dumped them off out in the boonies and drove away it took us 2 years of fighting in court before we finaly got custody and we wouldnt have got it then except she kept flunking her drug tests.Its a long hard battle but its worth it.Good luck.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), October 10, 2001.

Thanks to everyone out there that responded to my post. I just wanted to let everyone know how things were going. I printed your posts and spread them out among the relatives the day before the viewing. After reading them everone agreed they felt better for knowing we were'nt alone out there. Yes we did take everone's advice and stayed cool. We all gathered outside in the parking lot and trickled in a few at a time. The only problem was that the mother of the little boy had put a restraining order on our nephew so he wasn't allowed to go to the viewing and the funeral. But we all agreed that if there was any chance at all for him to get his daughter back we all had to stay calm. That child was definitely loved. Between his biological father, his relatives, his mother's relatives, us and friends there was over 150 people there. When we were in the procession to the cemetery we were towards the front and my husband told me to look behind us, I was amazed, the line was about two miles long. I've never been to that large of a funeral before. According to the CPS caseworker they are finding out some things from our niece that we did'nt know about. CPS will be recomending that our niece be placed with her father next Friday. We have been told that they are looking into maybe pressing criminal charges against the mother. We don't have any details but it must be pretty bad. I'll keep everyone posted. And again thanks for your support.

-- Vicky Mcclain (polarghost101@msn.com), October 13, 2001.

Vicky- Thanks for letting us know how things are working out for your family. Something that your nephew might want to consider for his daughter once she is back with him is grief counseling. My sister died unexpectedly, of natural causes when her boys were 3 1/2 and 7 years old. The boys' father is a completely irresponsible, self- centered, narcistic jerk who could not meet even their most basic needs, so although he retained legal custody my parents and I shared physical custody of the kids for over 4 years. We did everything we could think of to help the boys and provide a stable, loving, caring, and nurturing environment for them, and I think we did pretty well by them. However, the one thing that was recommended by their teachers, members of their church, and the county social workers that we could not provide was grief counseling (because the father, who maybe saw his kids every couple of weeks, thought it was unnecessary and would not give his required permission). Finally, a year after their mother's death, the principal of their school, (who has known our family for 20 years) agreed to having them attend grief counseling sessions (these are offerred in the school by Hospice volunteers in our county) with their grandmother's consent, even though this was not strictly legal. Both boys benefitted from it and attended the weekly sessions for two school years, until the older one decided that it was cutting into his music class time and felt he wanted the music more than the counseling! The point is that even at her age the daughter may have needs that are either not recognized or not dealt with by family members. In our case, my entire family was in shock for well over a year, and we were all faced with a situation that we were completely unprepared to deal with. We learned a lot from the experience, but in retrospect I somtimes wish that we had focused a little more on getting prfessional help for the kids at the time. I doubt that they suffered any permanent harm from our oversight- when I look at them today and see how happy, intelligent, and well adjusted they are I know that we did a lot of things right, but it might have helped them and saved them some of the pain and fear and confusion that they faced at the time if we had pushed harder for counseling, particularly with the 3 year old, because he was so little and it was so hard for him to understand what was happening at the time. He spent many nights awake crying for his mother, and I wonder if we could have made it easier for him with some help. In your nephew's case, his daughter is facing a double whammy- both the loss of her brother and possibly the loss of her mother if the mother loses custody and/or winds up in jail. Best wishes to all of you.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), October 13, 2001.

Elizabeth, Our nephew was told that in order to be even considered for even temporary custody that he and his daughter would have to attend counciling together. He had no hesitation. Whatever his daughter needs he's prepared to do.

-- Vicky Mcclain (polarghost101@msn.com), October 13, 2001.

Yes, thanks for the update, Vicky. I'd imagine that your CPS couldn't just act on the unsupported word of a three-year old - that opens up possibilities I don't even want to speculate about, but if that's the way they're tending then it sounds like what happened may have released her from a living hell. It may even be the way her loving brother would have decided, had he been given the opportunity, in order to release her.

I'd still not be certain that your nephew will get permanent custody of his daughter though - while there are many good people in welfare organisations, there are some idiots in management positions who got there because they got warped break-up-the-family old-fashioned- Marxist higher "education" degrees. Please keep us informed. We care.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), October 13, 2001.

Whoops - your short post got in while I was composing mine.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), October 13, 2001.

Vicky, good luck - love her and do all you can for her. My nephew lost his fiance' on New Year's Eve, 1999 in a car wreck, and one year and three weeks later, on January 20, 2001, lost his new girlfriend also to a car wreck. We were all devestated, but not nearly like he was. He will never be the same, but the strength of the young, whether 3 or 21 is amazing. I pray she will be left with her father for her sake and your family's. Let us know as things progress, please.

-- Christine in OK (cljford@aol.com), October 14, 2001.

Vicky, Think about it ...none of us are related to our spouses and yes it is very much like a "blood bond". My wife had 5 children when I married her 10 years ago we dated for 8 years before that. Some of the younger children (3) were still at home. Anyway, we have done the proms , homecomings , weddings , divorces , births and deaths. I am the pa-pa to 10 grandchildren and I love them all , I think of them as "mine" because they are ... and I am theirs. I send prayers and blessings for you and your family. Stay close and by all means do what is best for the little girl. You need to support your nephew ... many so called "men" would have turned tail and ran ! To him and you I say BRAVO !!!

-- Ralph Rice (Roadapple@suite224.net), October 18, 2001.