What are good breeds for the homestead for both meat and milk?

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 15, 2001

Answers

Response to Dual (meat + milk) breeds

most cows are a good deal, unless your talking about something smaller

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), October 15, 2001.

Response to Dual (meat + milk) breeds

Sorry--I meant goats. I chose the goats general topic but forgot that doesn't show.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 15, 2001.

Response to Dual (meat + milk) breeds

Ann, I vote for the old fashioned Nubian. But if you want more meat a Boer/Nubian cross might be the best bet.

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), October 15, 2001.

Response to Dual (meat + milk) breeds

what about kinders? though the kids grow slwoer if you want a good sized animal for butchering...they seem to do really well for the easter markets around here...

pLus they milk in abundance and are prolific! they are a cross between pygmy and nubian...

Sarah

-- sarah (heartsongacres@juno.com), October 15, 2001.

Response to Dual (meat + milk) breeds

I vote for Kinders also. Very hardy, great temperments and all around nice goats. Good for milk also!

-- Trisha-MN (tank@Linkup.net), October 15, 2001.

Response to Dual (meat + milk) breeds

I have Boer/Toggenberg (50/50) cross does and find that their milk is very rich. Second year milkers gave me 3/4 gallon per day each. I bred to a full Boer buck last year and had big, beefy kids in 3 months. In March I'll learn how the 3/4 Boer doe performs in the dairy barn. But if I were to start with a single breed, I'd go for Kinder, too.

-- Danni Warburton (IMDT@hotmail.com), October 15, 2001.

Thanks. I wasn't expecting the crosses offered--doesn't that make it tricky to keep the right combination? or do you just cross the kinder ( or other 1/2 and 1/2) to same? (Sorry, really a nubie here)

What is the prevailing wisdom about having registered, pure stock? Is that an avantage to the homesteader--does it open more income possibilities as a breeder?

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 15, 2001.

Absolutely Ann, purebred registered stock with paperwork, and not "yep she is a pure Nubian nanny" :) is a perfect small farm business. If you are going to have the goats anyway, a purebred doe giving you very sellable kids milks the same, and most of the time more than an unregistered goat. It is the difference between selling your extra kids for 25 to 50 dollars and 150$ minimum to much much more. Breed them Boer and you are once again back to the minimum amounts. Now there is quite a market right now for the mini type animals, but I really think it is a fad, unless once again you are going for pure Nigerian Dwarves etc. The best dual purpose, meat and milk goat is a LaMancha. They have more meat to bone than Nubians, are smaller so they eat less, and out produce even my best Nubians on pounds of milk given over the whole lactation. Equal in butterfat in a few also. When East Texas summers hit and the Nubians are laying under the oaks, barely millking 6 pounds, LaMancha's milk each and every day, even sometimes being tough to dry when very bred. They are easier on the ears, the only problem with them comes at sale, they are very hard to get rid of, because you either hate or love the LaMancha! We rarely get an export for LaMancha's. My favorite cross is Togg/Nubian, though like you said do you then breed Nubian or then breed Togg. Boer's are fine for nice fast growing meat breeds, but unless you know what to look for there are alot of really poor Boers around. The extra teat thing is a biggy, unless you are going to eat all your kids, they also have, on a whole very poor feet and legs, making hoof trimming a nitemare for the newbie. The very best thing to do is visit farms. Not a reason in the world to purchase Oberhali's from 3 states away when a perfectly lovely Saanen herd lives in the next town. You need help, you need their experience, you need the use of their bucks in the beginning. Send me your state and I will put you in touch with goat clubs in your area, visit, find out what is going on in your area, and visit visit visit! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), October 15, 2001.

I am in middle Tennessee. Thanks. Your favorite goat links?

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

I think I have my husband just about agreed to goats in general. But it will be a stretch to get him to see the need for a $150 goat. That might have to be my christmas/birthday/anniversary present (for a couple years!)ha,ha.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

I really love my kinder doe,but had to breed to a pygmy this year since was unable to locate a kinder buck. Anybody know of any in the southwest arkansas area? Just have two goats so really don't want to keep a buck.

-- VickiP. (countrymous@webtv.net), October 16, 2001.

Lots of good answers. I was "talked into" goats by my farrier. He raises Alpines. Lots of Alpines (50-70+ animals). He said I needed several for brush control and to have. I never thought I would want smelly, nasty, gross goats. Just three years later I have traded my Alpines back to the breeder for his Oberhasli sports he keeps getting from his Alpines (he bred to an Oberhasli buck to get a dark brown Alpine and keeps getting Obers off and on.) I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to dabble in goats to see if you will like them, find a reliable person and purchase an INEXPENSIVE goat - I got my first Ober doe from this guy for $25. She was one of five babies from an Alpine doe and very small. At the same time I got a bred Alpine doe for $75. I now am breeding three Grade (yeah, I know I am horsey...) Obers to a registered Ober buck. Working on making a small herd of registered Obers. Anyway. Get an inexpensive animal (if $150 seems like a lot to invest in maybe not liking goats) and see how you get along. MAKE SURE your person you buy from will work with you. Mine has been outstanding. He's a great guy. Visit farms. Take the hubby and let him tell YOU what he wants. Mebbe he likes those silly brown goats over spotty goats. If you let him pick them out you may like the outcome better. Good Luck!

-- Gailann Schrader (gtschrader@aol.com), October 16, 2001.

So you want me to reveal my Favorites folder? You really want to know the depth of this obcession of mine? :) No really....you should be VERY afraid! I hope this doesn't paste as a garbled mess!

http://content.communities.msn.com/TheGoatShed/ Vist my goats on the Photo Album! http://www.farminfo.org/goats/goats.htm http://www.khimairafarm.com/ http://home.stny.rr.com/rgs/goatlnk.html http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/2178/worms.html http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8815/wsucae.html http://www.ravencrest.net/dir/goat.html

Maryland Small Ruminant Page http://www.intercom.net/user/sschoen/sheep.html 7M Farm & Herbals http://www.7mfarm.com Bar None Meat Goats http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/2178/index.html Raising Goats http://www.farminfo.org/goats/goats.htm Tri-Quest Boer Goats http://www.triquestboergoats.com/ Irvine Mesa Charros 4-H Club Goat Information Page: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~pazzani/4H/GoatsHome.html MacGoats http://www.psyber.com/~macgoats/#Developmental Mauldin's Boer Goat Site: http://www.jackmauldin.com/default.htm Basic Goat Primer http://home.earthlink.net/~lureynolds/ Breeders' World Goat Forum http://www.breedersworld.com/phorum/list.php3?num=4 Cybergoats http://www.cybergoat.com/ Saanendoah Goat Information Page http://www.saanendoah.com/goatss.html Dairygoat.com http://www.dairygoats.com/ Fias Co Farm Prenatal Goat care http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/prenatalcare.html Goat Kingdom http://members.tripod.com/duhgoatman/goatkingdom.htm Goat Market.com http://www.goatmarket.com/ Inside the Web Goat Message Board http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb199161&TL= GoatSearch http://members.aol.com/GoatSearch/content/help.html#link GoatWorld http://www.goatworld.com/ Great Goats Dehorning goats http://www.greatgoats.com/dehorning.html HOMELITE Goat Search Web Board http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb207470 Merkel Livestock Links http://members.tripod.com/~BradBanner/livestock.html Stockmaster for Goats http://www.stockmaster.co.uk/site/herdmaster/goats/intro.htm Boer Goats.com http://www.boergoats.com/ http://www.skybusiness.com/goatscanada/index91.html http://www.greatgoats.com/management.html http://www.nwinfo.net/~milkmaid/

University Sites and Research Sites: http://texaserc.tamu.edu/

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/lenoir/ Texas A&M University at Ulvalde: http://uvalde.tamu.edu/ Clemson University (Feeding Programs for Meat Goats) http://goats.clemson.edu/NC%20Handbook/feeding.htm Texas A&M University Internet Resources on Goats http://sanangelo.tamu.edu/ded/goat/goat.htm Mississippi State Univ. Extension Service (Meat Goat Selection and Care) http://ext.msstate.edu/pubs/pub2177.htm University of Florida Extension Service (Meat Goat Herd Mgt) http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/scripts/htmlgen.exe?DOCUMENT_VM005 Northern California State University Extension Service http://www.cals.ncsu.edu:8050/an_sci/extension/ Texas A&M University at San Angelo Extension Center http://sanangelo.tamu.edu/ Oklahoma State Breeds of Goats http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/BREEDS/GOATS/ Colorado State Vet Extension Service http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/dlab/webdocs/ext_vet/cleon.html NC State University Extension Service http://lenoir.ces.state.nc.us/staff/jnix/Ag/Goat/dis.html

Equipment & Supplies: http://www.unitedcaprinenews.com/ http://www.cheesemaking.com/ http://goatsupplies.netfirms.com/ Alphine Haus Goats Online http://alpinehs.com/ Caprine Supply http://www.caprinesupply.com/shop/ D-S Livestock Equipment http://www.intercom.net/user/sschoen/D-S.html Register Sheep & Goat Supply http://goatsupplies.netfirms.com/ Running RR Ranch Equipment http://www.angelfire.com/mo/runningrrranch/equprices.html Sydell Equipment http://www.sydell.com/ Circle J Sheep Equipment http://www.case- agworld.com/cAw.circleJ.home.html Colorado Serum Company http://www.colorado-serum.com/ Modern Farm Merchantile http://www.modfarm.com/ Nasco http://www.enasco.com/prod/Home Co-op Animal Health Catalog http://www.ucoophealth.com/ Jeffers http://www.1800jeffers.com/ssc/ KV Master Vet Supply http://www.kvvet.com/ Pipestone Veterinary Supply http://www.pipevet.com/ Omaha Vaccine Company http://omahavaccine.com/ Valley Vet Supply http://www.valleyvet.com/ Alternate Solutions Ranch Equipment http://www.buyfarmstuff.com/ Farm On Line Trading Post http://www.farm-online.com/ Preifert http://www.priefert.com/ http://www.leeners.com/cheese.html

Magazines & Publications: Caprine Supply http://www.unitedcaprinenews.com/ Goat Farmer http://www.caprine.co.nz/main_page.html Goat Rancher http://www.goatrancher.com/ The GOAT Magazine http://www.goatmagazine.com/ Ranch & Rural Living Magazine http://www.ranchmagazine.com/ Meat Goat Monthly http://www.ranchmagazine.com/mgn.html Purple Circle Magazine http://www.purplecircle.com/

Associations: American Meat Goat Association http://www.beageek.net/ranchmag/AMGA.html Central Texas Meat Goat Association http://www.boerbreeders.com/centraltexas/ South Texas Meat Goat Association http://www.geocities.com/rwalters2000/ East Texas Goat Raisers Association http://www.etgra.com/Page_1x.html Junior Meat Goat Show Circuit http://www.jmgsc.com/ American Boer Goat Association http://www.abga.org/ International Boer Goat Association http://www.ibga.com/ The IBGA http://www.theibga.org/ Texas Sheep & Goat Raisers Association http://www.tsgra.com/

Tennesse goat clubs: Maury County Goat Club Elaine Knight 931-583-2784 Smokey Mountain DGC Anne-Marie Begley abegley@esper.com Tennesse DGA Joyce Miller 901-872-6573 Tennesse Valley Goat Vedra Proaps 865-945-5190

Surely one of the above knows someone in your area to visit! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

Wow Vicki! Loads of good sites.Glad I have a year to search.Thanks.

-- VickiP (countrymous@webtv.net), October 16, 2001.

Hi Ann,

Something to keep in mind when purchasing is being able to milk her and the taste of the milk from each goat. I have a Saanen goat and I don't like her milk, but I do like the milk from the Oberhasli goats that I have. I don't hold it against my Saanen, she can't help it:) There is a different amount of butterfat in each doe's milk that would alter the taste and their diet is very important too. If a goat doesn't eat a healthy diet, you can't expect her to give the healthiest milk. We are what we eat. It is extremely important to have clean milking equipment. There's nothing worse than the smell of spoiled milk to make you lose your appetite.

Please don't buy the first goat you see because it's "a good deal". Remember that it costs just as much to feed and maintain a registered goat as it does to feed a "scrub" goat. Personally, I have found that registered animals are usually from breeders that have a reputation to protect. Most will continue to help you after your purchase. When purchasing this way, you can also observe the goat's dam and sire (if not frozen:). When an animal is sold at an auction barn, it's usually being culled there for a reason; ill health, bad milker, nasty temperment, over crowding, etc. Please understand, I'm not saying that this pertains to all animals, I'm just trying to caution you. Each goat has a different personality, and some fit into the herd (and our family)and some never do. Why don't you attend some goat shows at local fairs or 4H shows. This gives you a chance to see different breeds and meet breeders. Most are happy to talk about their goats!!That's how we started.

-- Charleen in WNY (harperhill@eznet.net), October 16, 2001.

Thanks. As I speak I am drinking hot chocolate from goat's milk. I didn't notice any difference from cow when cold but a little when warm. Very good though.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

Hi Ann, The $150 minimum for a decent goat is the smallest cost of the animal. Feed for one year will cost you more, but then you will get lots of delicious milk in return, plus kids to sell. As Vicki said, you will get more money for the kids, and likely more milk from the doe, if you start with a good-quality registered animal. Plus, I like the thought that my kids are going to good homes (I'm a softie), and again, that's more likely if they are valuable animals. I don't want to sell to someone who will say, Oh, the vet will be $60 minimum. The goat's not worth much more than that, so let's let her suffer and die.

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), October 18, 2001.

Ann, I used to live in Tennessee around Gainesboro, Jackson County. There a lots of goat there. Greg Murphy lives south and east of Nashville and is a ADGA judge now. He is a good person and has very nice goats, I think he use to have LaManchas and French Alpines. I am trying to think of the man with the nice Nubians who is also a ADGA judge now. I need my ADGA membership book and I am at work. Benz Farms by Bell Buckle, Tennessee has very good quality Boers too. You are in a great location for getting some good quality goats and tell your husband that you get what you pay for. Stay away from the auctions there too, a lot of culls and a lot of diseases.

-- karen in kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), October 19, 2001.

i got my saanens for 10.00 each from a dairy farmer who was getting out of goats , because the local dairy no longer took goat milk , my only regret now is that i wish i had purchased more to begin with , i am in the process of getting them inspected and registered , they are NOA,

if you look you can find them , good luck and good goats!!

-- Beth Van Stiphout (willosnake@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.