I READ ON ANOTHER MESSAGE BOARD THAT IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO BUILD MY OWN LCD PROJECTION SYSTEM, SIMILAR TO THE ONES I WOULD PAY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR. I ALSO READ THAT FOR A COUPLE OF HUNDRED DOLLARS, I MAY BE ABLE TO GET AN EXCELLENT QUALITY PROJECTED IMAGE. IF ANYONE HAS ANY INFORMATION ON THE PROCESS PLEASE POST IT HERE. THIS MESSAGE BOARD WILL BE DEDICATED TO THOSE WHO REACH FOR THE STARS ON A LIMITED BUDGET.

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@AOL.COM), October 15, 2001

Answers

SORRY THAT THIS MESSAGE BOARD GOT CANCELLED, BUT PEOPLE JUST WEREN'T CONTRIBUTING ANY LONGER. IF YOU HAPPEN UPON THIS THREAD AND HAVE UPDATED INFO ON THIS SUBJECT, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. EMAIL ME. THANKS, CHANCE ......DATE 10/06/2005

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@AOL.COM), April 02, 2004.

THANKS FOR GIVING UP TIME TO READ/POST HERE. IT MAY TAKE A WHILE FOR OTHERS TO MIGRATE OVER TO THIS TOPIC. LETS ALL BE PATIENT AND UNDERSTANDING. I WILL BE POSTING FROM TIME TO TIME ON THE 100" TV BOARD. I LIKE TO WATCH COMMENTS FROM OTHERS OVER THERE, BECAUSE IT MAY SPAWN AN IDEA FOR THIS PROJECT. ALSO IT IS KINDA COOL HELPING OTHERS WHO HAVE JUST STUMBLED UPON THE 100" TV IDEA. WE ALL KNOW HOW MUCH TIME IT TAKES TO READ THROUGH ALL THE PREVIOUS POSTINGS, JUST TO MAKE SURE SOMEONE DIDN'T COME UP WITH A PRIZE WINNING IDEA TWO MONTHS AGO. A LOT OF BUSINESSES DEPEND ON WORD OF MOUTH ADVERTISEMENT TO PROMOTE A PRODUCT OR AN IDEA. LETS GET PEOPLE TALKING AND THINKING, AND OTHERS WILL WANT TO SEE WHAT THIS IDEA IS ALL ABOUT. I DON'T WANT TO SCARE OTHERS OFF BECAUSE THEY CANNOT UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE CONCEPTS BEING POSTED HERE. I ALSO WOULD LIKE THOSE WITH SOME INTELLECT TO BE ABLE TO POST HERE AND FEEL AT HOME. SO TO GET THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS LETS TRY TO FOLLOW THIS FORMAT- THEORY- APPLICATION. IN OTHER WORDS IF YOU WISH TO EXPLAIN THE HOW'S AND WHY'S OF AN IDEA YOU ARE SHARING, PLEASE TRY TO DO SO FIRST. THEN TRY TO SPELL IT OUT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T WANT TO GRASP THE CONCEPTS, BUT JUST WANT A DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF WHAT TO DO. I NOTICED FROM THE 100" TV SIGHT THERE WERE SOME BRIGHT PEOPLE AND SOME VERY DIM PEOPLE. I WANT EVERYONE TO BENEFIT FROM THIS. THANKS. ALL SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME, AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A DUMB QUESTION. WELL, THERE IS, BUT ASK ANYWAY WE WONT LAUGH.

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@AOL.COM), October 18, 2001.

I'm very interested in the home made LCD. I am trying to construct a lrge physical screen with a low resolution lcd panel. How can I actually build a larger liquid crystal pixel ( 2cm square) to build a low resolution screen? Can anyone advise where i can buy individual liquid crystal panels, or how i might make one, please?

-- Gabby Shawcross (gabbyshawcross@yahoo.com), October 27, 2003.

Would this work as a lcd?.CITIZEN M-329. It is not that expensive and you can connect video signal straight to it. Please let me know.

-- Abu2000 (alough@fibertel.com.ar), August 01, 2003.

Hey Shawn -

There are some decent pics at:

http://people.eecs.ku.edu/~astaples/projector/main.htm

The guy also has links to purchase most of the equipment you need as well. Good luck!

-- Troy (nsanebrain@yahoo.com), May 03, 2003.

Does anyone have a link to a site with diagrams and pictures? Also, do you guys use some sort of lens along with the LCD?

Thanks

-- Shawn (flames292@hotmail.com), February 24, 2003.

guys wanting info on the Playstation LCD: i've torn apart the one made by sony for the psone, and it can be used for this project, just have to flip the driver board up so it's horizontal and out of your way.

don't know if anyone ever successfully did the game gear.

troy

-- troy (nsanebrain@yahoo.com), February 07, 2003.

SHAWN -

two ways you can go with the LCD panels: you can buy LCD's in monitors, playstation screens, etc. and dismantle them, or you can buy LCD projection panels that have no backlight. i've done both successfully. if you want a panel ready to go without worrying about screwing things up taking it apart, search for an nView Spectra or Sharp brands.

resolution is relative. you can project images of less resolution than the panel, and you can project images with more resolution than the panel (DVD). but the picture you see will only be whatever your max resolution is.

can use big or small LCD's, i've used both 4 and 5 inch in mine. the ideal set up is with a 2 or 2.3 inch LCD and the optics from slide projectors (cheap at thrift stores). we tossed it around months ago on this board, and i think i saw where someone recently mentioned doing the same. only concern is seeing schematics of the little LCD before you buy it, so you can be assured you can get the circuit board out of the way of your light.

DOUG - here's a simple diagram: bright light in box LCD panel lens screen

you can build it 5,000 different ways, and that's half the fun. you mention the 100 inch TV project, if you haven't yet, build one just to get an idea of how you want to do an LCD project. the wall of my living room has an 8 x 9 foot screen (flat paneling with bright white ceiling paint) that works good for reflecting images.

good idea on the potentiometer, too!

keep it up guys!

troy

-- troy (nsanebrain@yahoo.com), February 06, 2003.

I found a web site and a guy built a lcd projector. He mounted it in a slide projector and used a 2inch lcd which is the size of a slide which makes it more simple I would think. My system is all set to go all I need to do is make one of these. There are lots of good ideas here. I am going to start working on my unit.

-- Mike Dillon (iam@mikedillon.com), February 06, 2003.

Hi, I am new to the whole LCD projection DIY thing, but I have read most of the thread and have a some basic questions that are incredibly naive, I apologize, but if someone could take one sec to bring me into this century, it would be great.

a) am I to assume that everybody is removing the backing of the LCD panels they accquire and shining very powerful lights thru them? LCD panels have backlight source already (hence that's how we can see them) right?

b) do the panels have to be 640 X 480? And do they have to be small, or can I use 10 or 12 inch panels? Does a 1152 (H) x 234 (V) panel work, or will you just see big pixels?

Thanks, SHAWN

-- shawn mac (mirror_imaging@sympatico.ca), January 29, 2003.

WARNING: LCD display dismantling is extremely risky!

I once took the TFT LCD screen of my IBM ThinkPad 760EL laptop apart because there was a grey line (with always half brightness) at the lower screen rim. This LCD panel has multiple very fragile foil connectors with integrated(!) demultiplexer ICs at its rim those may very easily crack off the glass screen. When I tried to re-assemble it, I got only graphics mess (vertical bars like on a crashed Atari VCS2600) and it took my about 5 further attempts of taking it apart and re-assembling it to get it to work again. Apparently the lower part (with backlight and PCBs) communicates with some kind of additional press-on contacts with the LCD itself, and these contacts must be aligned correctly by 1/100mm or so to make proper contact.

After the display worked again, I noticed that lots of dust particles were fallen between LCD and backlight, causing tons of pseudo-dead dark pixels. Thus I had to buy a fluff-free micro-fiber cloth and take the LCD apart again to remove the dust. Afterward I needed about 8 attempts of re-assembling to get the display to work again. (It look fine now,but the grey line is still there - likely a burned out transistor in one of those demultiplexer ICs welded into the foil connectors).

MAY THE SOFTWARE BE WITH YOU!

*============================================================================* I CYBERYOGI Christian Oliver(=CO=) Windler I I (teachmaster of LOGOLOGIE - the first cyberage-religion!) I I ! I *=============================ABANDON=THE=BRUTALITY==========================* {http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/e_index.html}

-- CYBERYOGI Christian Oliver(=CO=) Windler (windle_c@informatik.fh-hamburg.de), December 18, 2002.

I have an idea and Im sorry I havent read the entire forum geeez its long. And I also have not seen any kind of plan about this lcd projection project? Im not even sure if its even that? kind of confused to what this is about?? But any here is an idea: If someone has found a great light to use for the project but it is too bright see if you can use one of those light dimmer switchs or make a potentiometer -5 spelling. if you dont know what that is a adjustable resistor. PLEASE SOME ONE SEND ME THE A SIMPLE KIND OF DIAGRAM OF THIS PROJECT, AND ARE USING THESE LCD'S TO PROJECT IT ON WALL IN A BOX OR BOTH!! THANKS I LOVE THIS STUFF AND I HAVE POSTED SEVERAL ON THE 100 TV FORUM AND THIS THE 1ST DAY FOR ME HERE IN BOTH PLACES

THANKS AGAIN

-- Doug Simpson (Dasimpsons69@cs.com), December 17, 2002.

Just to let every one know im first in the uk so prices a little different.

I have bought a 15 inch TFT monitor which with in 2 hours was taken apart for the TFT (cost £180), I have made a case that is 50cm height and the width and lenght of the TFT. My light source is a 500W security light (cost £7.99 including the halogen light) I am using a 14" fan to cool the whole thing (I do mean cool), from a ex army store I have bought a projector arm and head with the lens (£2.50) that was a bargin. So far everything foucus realy well, I just think I need to get a frensil due to the spotlight being a little focused but hay for a total investment of £250 ish and a XGA monitor resolution im not complaining.

-- Neil Thorpe (neil.thorpe@mlmmessaging.com), December 16, 2002.

I have been looking into making a lcd projector for a few weeks now within my first 3 days I couldnt help myself and quickly purchased a overhead projector,$30's, from ebay and a 5" lcd,$100's, from www.partsexpress.com. I took apart the lcd which was acctually VERY easy...you just have to be careful with the ribbon wire....they are very delicate. I then just cut a whole the size of the lcd screen in a piece of cardboard and simply laid it on of the projector. I cant tell you how amazed I was at the picture quality I had made with an hours worth of work. I first projected the image about 70 inches....picture was nice but you could see the pixels of the lcd, also known as the "screen door" effect. I reduced the image down to 40" and I had a awesome sharp bright picture...I would compare the quality to a 40" rear projection TV... not bad for 150$. Although my setup is just a preliminary test the results, in my opinion, where outstanding!

What I learned with my current setup? 1. A bigger LCD with higher Resolution is a must 2. Make as little ambient light as possible, the darker you can get the room the less washed out your picture looks. 3. Using the LCD I currently have would be perfect for a homade rear projection TV using a DELTA rear projection lens.

My next project objectives? I want a big, bright, crisp, and sharp image.

How do I plan to do this? I plan to do this using an old computer and and a cheap,$300, 15" LCD monitor. You can find cheap lcd monitors here http://pcworld.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib.php/page_id=37/sortby=pr iceA/ut=418950c4431f013d/

Your probably asking well how can he view a movie using a computer and a LCD monitor with no TV tuner. Well my prares were answered when I found a product made by ViewSonic. The VB50HRTV TV tuner module,$99. It can be found here http://www.viewsonic.com/products/video_box_vb50hrtv.htm This product is AWESOME, it will turn a cable feed into 1024 x 768 FULL SCREEN. You can also plug in s-video and composite video...I'll let you read about it on there site.

For my light source I am going to use a 200-400 watt Metal Halide bulb. Im going to buy a condenser lens to focus all the light from the bulb to pretty much the exact size of the LCD screen. Condenser lens can be purchased here http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/Objective_Lenses.html

For the other lenses im just going rip out ones in the over head projector I purchased on Ebay. Can be changed later in needed.

I then plan to mount all of it in a custom case. Im not even going to try to make it compact all im looking for now is quality. The final project will probably be pretty big. About 4ft long...I think.

I know this method isnt a super cheap way to go, but like they say you cant get something for nothing...its just not possible. Also if you compare the cost of what my project will cost me to what a manufactured LCD projector cost the differance is HUGE...not to mention what you save on bulb cost. Those bulbs in the LCD projectors cost on average $300-500.00!!! and do not last very long either. Sure you can get the 5" LCD screen and project it to 70..even 100 inches but the picture quality no matter what you do is going to be very poor.

Anyway It's going to be a while till I get the setup I'm talking about but i will post my progress as soon as I get started. Hope this information is helpful :)

-- Sean fitzpatrick (iammystique@hotmail.com), August 29, 2002.

I have updated my site with links and such. More to come soon. www.diylcd.com

-- Doug (dwalls32@tampabay.rr.com), August 28, 2002.

Hey guys, I`m new here. Really excited about this project. I had an idea. I`m in the middle of fixing up my attic, and I`m going to build a built-in-TV (the kind you see in home theator pics) Is it possible if I wanted only a 50-60 inch TV, to buy a rear- projection Da-lite screen, stick my LCD or 13" flat screen directly behind the Da-lite screen with the afore-mentioned lens and stuff, and make a good quality TV. It seems to me like this would work because the closer the projector is to the Projector screen, the better the quality. And if I stuck it about 2 feet away...WOW! I`ve added up the cost and I can buy the Da-lite rear-projector screen for US$320, the LCD monitor for $130, or a Flat Screen TV for $190. Seems a cheap alternative.

Toodles! Mitch

-- Mitch M (shaggybill@hotmail.com), July 28, 2002.

Has anyone considered using two LCD screens instead of one? This may provide the additional brightness needed for the projected display without creating the washed out look.

-- Wayne Whitworth (amtech@sprynet.com), July 20, 2002.

Great forum that you all have here. I'm looking forward to building my own LCD projector sometime soon! What I can contribute here is a wealth of knowledge about some mini-pcs, PAL/NTSC conversion and PC tuner cards. Currently I own an SV24 mini-pc from shuttle. (www.spacewalker.com or www.shuttle.com). There are dozens of new mini-pcs about to hit the market this fall from various manufacturers and they are great for viewing DVDs, video, PAL conversion, etc. My SV24 has SVHS and composite video as well as SVGA outputs. The onboard video does an excellent job of descaling the DVD video played from my DVD-CD-RW 5.25" combo-drive that I have installed in it. Basically, throw the DVD in, it starts automatically and scales the output. The DVD quality is very good! If you want better - then invest in an ATI card or Geforce 4 to get better output. You can also install a soundblaster live 5.1 or audigy soundcard to get the 5.1 speaker output or digital audio from your DVDs. Another thing I have is a Winfast TV2000XP TV tuner card installed. It comes with a remote control and you use it just like you would for you DVD player, VCR or for changing channels. Its sweet! You can even program one of the keys to power down the system from the remote control. The capture/tuner card can capture TV to MPEG files and do it just like a VCR - with scheduling when you are not at home. If you are serious about saving cash on video converers, then know that this PC automatically can output either PAL or NTSC. I receive PAL TV here in Belgium but output thru my computer to my NTSC 62" projector TV. Very nice. You can also invert the video output using those cheap little freeware DOS screen utilities all over the web. Great for those of you with inversion problems. Another goodie with the tuner card is that it captures video, which allows you to route other video sources thru it and also gives you the ability to have picture in picture too! :0) There are million and one things to do with this PC (playing Dungeon Siege or Quake 3 big screen is killer) - add a wireless mouse and keyboard with controllers (from intel - uses usb) and it's a great game machine too. You can pick the original SV24 boxes up on Ebay now for $150 without guts (CPU and RAM or HDD), but for just around $350 you have the ultimate entertainment machine.

I hope you all found this interesting...

- Roger

PS - did I mention that the 40GB hard disk makes an excellent MP3 player and with the software I get cool screen effects to boot? :0) I burn video CDs and MP3 cds and use them during my parties! Like I said - the sky's the limit...

-- Roger Thomas (rogeraususa@web.de), July 15, 2002.

I was wondering if anyone who has tried using a game gear lcd was successful yet. Some one said they stated a site (http://www.cgocable.net/~kenner/Game%20Gear/), but I got an error. So, has anyone unlocked the mystery of the game gear lcd?

-- Voitt Norse (wien_df_@hotmail.com), June 20, 2002.

what type of playstation lcd display you used ?

what is the resolution?

detachable driver boards ?

inputs (vga, rgb composite)?

thanks

-- me (sikterbre@yahoo.com), June 14, 2002.

i need info about removing lcd screen from ibm thinkpad 370c laptop, and info on sony ps lcd? any images?

-- me (sikterbre@yahoo.com), June 11, 2002.

hey all,

the guy wanting to compile a list of good, better, best lcd's is on to something.

the nView Spectra 540C has worked well for me, and it's been mentioned a time or two by others (f4, tim l., i think) tim l. gave a link waay back in the day. it's at invsol-inc.com, and the order number is #7070 for the one I have. 640x480, multiple inputs, including VGA, comes with nice case, cables and remote. cost $75 + $15 shipping. i had to e-mail their support to get it, couldn't find it on their menus at the time. also had one for $50 + $15 that's similar but didn't have VGA inputs. DVD works best through it, but i've run ps one, tv, computer, and vhs, and all work fairly well.

before that, i used a sony lcd for ps1. picture fine with it, but more difficult to get enough light through the smaller screen. runs about $130 retail. have read posts on multiple boards from people successfully using it. it is difficult to get the driver board out of the way, but very do-able if you're careful. have read that the mad catz lcd for ps1 is easier to move the board out of the way, but i haven't seen one personally. anyone using the MAD CATZ should post their thoughts on it.

-- troy (the-keen-one@msn.com), June 07, 2002.

Ooops. I tried to put my links inside "chicken beaks" to make them clickable: http://www.trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips7/white_led_tips.html

-- Snik Repkire (snikrepkire@hotmail.com), June 07, 2002.

Random Thought: I wonder if there is any reason to looking in to the newer bright white LED bulbs such as here: or here: as source or (more likely) back lights...

-- Snik Repkire (snikrepkire@hotmail.com), June 07, 2002.

Please do not yell. I have been researching this topic for only couple days but the following page seems to have the best info and links: http://www.audiovisualizers.com/madlab/lcd_proj.htm I am planning on building one soon, and so is a friend of mine. A couple weekends ago he spent $250 to RENT a video projector for his band's gig, so if we can build even a low quality one for that cost it will be worth it -since it will just be for random image displays... If I remember to come back to this page, then I will post an update. Cheers.

-- Snik Repkire (snikrepkire@hotmail.com), June 07, 2002.

Hey all you LCD projector lovers out there. Just dropped in to see how everyone is doing. It has been quite a while since I have last contributed to this board. I have been watching my INFOCUS LCD projector that was given to me by a friend. I went back to January and scanned through all the message posts to see how we are all progressing. There are a lot of new people posting. That is great. I must say though, I didn't find one post giving full details on how to build this thing from ground up. I was looking for a web address or something similar to the BSTV sight. C'mon now there have been a lot of patient people out there waiting for someone to take pictures and create a web sight explaining how to build a decent projector. I know there have been progressions here and it is very appreciated. But people need something to watch while they are waiting for perfection. I believe that some of you might be waiting for the best possible quality before you attempt the project and that is great too. I haven't been following the message board since January because I am happy with the unit I have. I do, however, want to give the people following the messages every day something to work with. I understand that there are many ways to go about building this project. Let's do some brainstorming now and come up with a buildable unit that is cheap to make and gives you a watchable picture of about 72" diagonal. The picture need only be as good as that of a rear projector television. Sure, you will have to turn the lights out, but we are looking for something inexpensive and easy that most people could build. Is this a possibility, or should we move on to something else? I'm not angry, just disappointed. If I overlooked a post somehow that explains how to build a unit, please let me know. CHANCE

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), June 05, 2002.

Ok, so I just ripped apart my old Game Gear to look at the LCD. The screen is connected to the brains via a thin plastic sheet containing about 66 flat copper foil wires (like telephone line). Five of them go off to the side of the LCD, and the rest go to the bottom. The ones that go to the bottom may or may not actually be connected, I can't tell visually.

Anyhow, does anybody have an idea of how to interface with such an LCD? Without, that is, buying Sega's tuner cardridge. I know the resolution on the Game Gear LCDs is very poor, but at this stage I'm just fooling around. Thanks!

-- Jonathan (james7.geo@yahoo.com), May 31, 2002.

Don't have much to say yet, I did have a response to a polarizing question way up there however. If the LCD has a built in polarizing layer then assuming that you're shooting unpolarized light into it you are loosing 50% of that light. This is why it is dimmed so much. If you polarize it before or after you go through this polarizing layer you can expect worse results which depends upon the angle of the LCD's polarizing layer and the other layer you're using.

On a further note I have an old Omega B/W enlarger for photography, I'm concidering that as a light source (it obviously won't be black and white anymore, that doesn't matter) And on top of that it's got some pretty substantial lenses and a dink light source that can be helped. I would think these lenses are going to treat me right though and from looking around I highly recommend you check out a local camera store for old lenses, some of these places are DIRT CHEAP! They can't get rid of the stuff anymore because their conventional purpose is completely out of date.

I guess that leaves the LCD and Input for me to worry about, I'll let you guys know how it goes!

-- rovertus (rovertus@rovertus.com), May 22, 2002.

Wow, I was unaware that this board was still operating! I have only been reading the DIYaudio forum. Nice to see so many new names here, and some familiar ones (hi f4!). I have got a front projection system going using a ohp fresnel lens for projection, but want to change over to rear projection because I managed to score an incredibly cheap RP screen. I have just had a long read through some of the earlier posts on this board and answered a lot of questions I had. I had tried to use both a Delta 77 and Delta 67 lens I bought from Allelectronics.com with my 5" Madcatz PS1 lcd and 1.7m diag rear proj screen, and recently discovered they are intended for curved CRT's and so will not project a flat image such as the lcd. I had found the fujinon and Delta 20 lens on surplusshed, and the earlier posts here seem to confirm that they are useful with 4 and 5" LCD's. I think I will get the fujinon because of the bigger diameter and I will post my results on both the diyaudio site and here. Keep up the good work everyone.

-- Muzzman (mjcox@mbox.com.au), May 21, 2002.

some of you guys might be interested in this site as well

http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/faq/vga2rgb/interfacing.html

they explain how to hook "things"(cant think of the woord to early) up to a vga source

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

you asked the question i've been looking up the answer to ?

simply put its not worth it

the interface needed to hook up a laptop lcd costs $200+ (£150+) however if you are interested i'll quote paul from another forum

"The feasibility of a project like this revolves primarily around whether or not you can find a datasheet on the TFT you're interested in buying.

You have two options for hooking it up to a computer: you can either buy an LCD controller card, or you can buy a regular video card with DVI output, and buy a DVI receiver board for your panel.

This is where it gets tricky; you have to be absolutely sure that your panel is compatible with the controller/receiver board. That's why you need a datasheet; you need to know the pinouts, the voltage, info about the inverter, etc. Fortunately most DVI receiver boards support a wide range of panels and inverters. Check to make sure though.

I would recommend buying a regular video card with DVI output, then buying a receiver board. Most LCD controller cards have a very small amount of video RAM, whereas proper DVI video cards have GeForce chips, 32-64 MB VRAM, etc, etc. It is a bit more expensive, because you have to buy two parts, but you get what you pay for.

Here's a list of companies that manufacture DVI receiver boards:

http://www.spectrah.com/ Spectrah Dynamics

http://www.reachtech.com/ Reach Technologies -- they were really helpful when I phoned them.

http://www.siimage.com/products/cp905dvi.asp Silicon Image, makers of the PanelLink standard that most panels and video cards use, offers a test kit.

http://www.rgbpixel.com.tw/ RGB-Pixel has an almost incomprehensible website translated from Taiwanese to English. But they do have receiver boards.

http://www.milesie.co.uk/ UK distributor.

Unfortunately, I haven't got to the buying stage yet, so I don't know if any of the above will sell individual boards (with the exception of Miles from the UK).

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to e-mail me! Paul d'Aoust paul@heliosville.com"

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO REMOVE LCD SCREEN FROM LAPTOP AND CONNECT IT TO THE REGULAR PC (SO IT COULD BE USED AS TRANSPARENT LCD PANEL FOR PROJECTOR)???

-- me (me@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

email me if you want a copy when i'm done i'll also send a copy to all that contribute uless you let me know otherwise

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

hey everyone i was going through ebay looking for an lcd to use and using yahoo to research them i came up with the greenspun board a couple of times and i realized the knoledge lost there so i was thinking of compileing a list of good/bad lcds and i need you guys help if i could get everyone to email me with lcd's that you have tried and what you think of them i'll sort through them and put it all together in some type of presentable form and redistribute it.

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

Hey guys, Got a few minutes freed up. Caught up on posts, great work. Todd and Jon be careful about the mini-TV thing, My first one was done with a Casio mini TV. Re-draw was awful and resolution low. I'm sure there are some mini TVs that would work well though, TFT seems to be the best for our purposes. TFT means Thin Film Transistor and has to do with the pixcell control being on the LCD itself.

I should be able to get back on the boards regularly soon, I'm very interested in the ligt sources you guys are coming up with, and should be able to get back to experimenting soon as well.

Keep up the great work, all!!!

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), May 06, 2002.

Metal halide or mercury vapor bulbs (or any HID bulb) requires a special bulb, ballast, and socket. The bulb must also be rated to the same watts as the ballast. There are several websites that sell these (do a google.com search for "metal halide ballast" or something like that to et an idea). That should get you started if you are interested. They are very bright and efficient, though generally more expensive. Proper reflectors are also tough to work out.

I bought a MV bulb/ballast/fixture at home depot (a security light), but I have yet to build an efficient parabolic or elliptical reflector for it...I know it's possible, I just haven't had time to work on it.

Good luck!

-f4

-- fender4 (nadyleets@hotmail.com), May 04, 2002.

ok everyone is saying to use metal halide or mercury vapor BULBS and leaving sites to BULBS do they just take a standard light socket or wher can i get the bulb and fixture?

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), May 02, 2002.

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/0/0,3363,i=5264,00. gif

-- nnxhfnx (fsadf@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

Here is a great Excel Spreadsheet that shows you how the focal lenght, distance to screen, LCD size, screen size, and freznel to LCD distance interplay with each other. I did not create it, I am just giving you the link.

http://www.gwidijanto.fcpages.com/

-Miles

-- Miles Bondurant (dislecksea@mindspring.com), April 24, 2002.

Hi miles,

Well that depends on personal preference, IMO, Panasonic AE100 ($2k retail in US, USD$1300 from Japan) and NEC LT150. The first is a LCD and the latter is a DLP.

cheers

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 24, 2002.

For anyone who is interested, there is a site where you can get paint and primer that is specifically designed for use with screens. The URL is http://www.goosystems.com/. I heard about it on yet another projector site (http://www.avsforum.com) that is not really DIY oriented (“can someone please tell me what the best cheap projector is – sub $3k”) but it may be of interest to some of us to see how the other half lives. :) - Miles

-- Miles Bondurant (dislecksea@mindspring.com), April 23, 2002.

Hi guys,

Has anyone finished the project yet? Would like to see some screen shots .... anyone ?

thanks

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 23, 2002.

LCD panel size. There are correlation between size-resolution-price. For projection efficiency, smaller is better, because it need less "lightsource-lumen" to illuminate the whole panel, but smaller panel with high resolution will jack up price so high, that's why commercial projector price reach the ceiling! IMO, 10"-12", 800x600 panel is the bargain from 3 correlation above. BTW, somebody can help me to find that panel with flat bottomed price?

thank's

-- gwidijanto (gwidijanto@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

io did some research on the

6" VGA LCD $15.00 Mfr: Sanyo LMDK55-22 640 x 480

not much i could find but i believe its monocromatic (black and white)

at least thats what i read on a list of specs

has anyone tried it out

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.

Hi jon,

I am not sure if they need extra circuitry, but i reckon it doesn't. And it has a 6500K colour temperature.

Todd, Using smaller lcd will cause visible pixelation when blown up but that depends on your screen size and seating distance. But i am not sure about the casio handheld tv...but at that resolution, i think yes it would be pixelated. Maybe you should experiment with the 6" VGA lcd panel which costs $15.

Happy hunting guys....

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 21, 2002.

Hey guys, this keeps on getting more exciting, keep up the good work....Has anybody tried the handheld tv lcd? I can probably get access to a casio handheld. It is 2.3 inches in size and 39,600 pixels. I'm wondering if this would be any good b4 I go ripping it apart. Would the pixels show up too big when projected? Still trying to grab at straws here, any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

-- Todd (anklecast@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

Jon, You beat me to it! I was just about to go to the local Home Depot to look at a light I found on their website. It is a 175 Mercury Vapor Ballast/light/fixture used for outdoor security that costs $21.00! At that price, it is worth a shot. They aren't quite as efficient as MH, but the price is nice. One thing to watch out for is phosphor coatings on these bulbs. Look for the "clear" ones. I think the coating makes the bulb favor the red spectrum.

Who knows if it will work, but if they have one in stock, I might give it a try. I will let you know.

Good luck! f4

-- fender4 (nadyleets@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

Anyone tried Mercury Vapor bulbs used in some street lighting?

as an example:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LAMBFU250.html (delete the spaces in the url if there is any)

13000 Lumens, and nice and cheap, and has 4000k color temp. MH is only 4200k.

cheers, jon

-- Jon (admin@connxion.co.uk), April 20, 2002.

Thanks for that ravin, definately cleared up a few of my probs.

I have been looking at the Ultra Halide bulbs, but to be honest with you i'm not too hot on the idea of needing a starter circuit, i dont wanna go killing myself by stripping down a UH Floodlight.

Do the sulphur bulbs need any extra circuitry? and is there any place you know of that i can get them from the UK?

Thx once again ;-), jon

-- Jon (admin@connxion.co.uk), April 19, 2002.

hi mmj, thanks for the info..will check it out later.. Jon, Stay away from fluoresent lights, this lights are 'dispersed' lights like what miles had mentioned, look into point source lights...there are some great sulphur lights..check it out..i posted it on the board a couple of days ago. By the way, don't forget about heat dissipation, other wise you are might 'fry' the lcd panels. But with the sulphur lights the 50W to 200W bulbs are good enough without any fan cooling and they have got 60,000hrs. You could opt for a UHP bulb instead of a metal halide but they are pricier. The UHP have very good uniform luminance and are stable...might want to look into that but i think the sulphur bulbs are great. Infact the will be used in upcoming projectors. As for the fresnel lens...check this out http://www.justmagnifiers.co.uk/page5.html.. but you can do a search...there are many sites...ok And for your last question...always go for a bigger lcd panel as more light can pass through it and you get better image quality... And just one more thing, when you choose your lighting make sure its practical for your application...don't use a too bright source for a small screen...otherwise you get a washed out image..

best of luck in your pursuit...

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 19, 2002.

Sorry, just one more question ;-)

Is it better to have a smaller LCD, say 2-3" than a larger 5-6"?

i would have thought that the smaller lcds would distribute the source light easier (?)

I'm thinking of either getting a PSone LCD (the one that the driver board comes off of) or getting a tft casio portable tv (with composite inputs)

thx again, jon

-- Jon (admin@connxion.co.uk), April 19, 2002.

Cheers 4 your answer.

I have just been looking around for a site selling industrial/commercial lights and fittings in the UK and came across a site selling loads of bulbs, including metal halide for quite cheap prices (considering this is the UK :) )

Also, they sell Sodium lamps, an example being http://www.tlc- direct.co.uk/Products/LASONT150.html

14500 lumens, which from reading this is more than enough.

On another subject, i remember watching a DIY program once where they were fitting some skylight. They used material similar to the coatings in fiber-optics. This seems like a good idea for making the most out of your lamp (?) or just plain old tin foil :)

One more question, does anyone know where i can get a fresnel lens in the UK.?

thx, Jon

-- Jon (admin@connxion.co.uk), April 19, 2002.

John, From what I have read, you should avoid fluorescent lights. The problem seems to be that fluorescent lights are not "single point" lights - that is they transmit light across an area. Light from all points along the bulb travels to and through the LCD at different angles. This results in either a blurry or washed out image. See the DYI Projector forum at http://www.diyaudio.com. Quick hint, read it backwards - they started out almost totally focused on using LEDs as light sources (you could read 40+ pages about it not working) but towards the end they start talking more about other methods.

Many folks seem to think that metal halide bulbs are the way to go. In fact, that is what many commercial LCD projectors and the better OHPs use. - Miles

-- Miles Bondurant (dislecksea@mindspring.com), April 19, 2002.

Hi there,

I have read virtually all of this board now (damn big board too!) and am very interested in attempting this project.

I would be extremely grateful if you could help me out with a few questions.

1. What type of lens should I buy? The choices im thinking of are either the Delta lens or the Fujinon lens both of which are @ surplusshed.com

2. Fluorescent tubes, are these a good solution as a light source?

Thanx very much, Jon

-- Jon (admin@connxion.co.uk), April 19, 2002.

ravin, I think there may be a few lenses with mounts, but I believe you're right., in that most of the lenses don't have mounts. I've been using whatever is available :) . Actually, I do a lot of remodelling work in my spare time and had a bunch of bar clamps from different projects. If you're not familiar with them, they are cushioned clamps that ride on a flat bar. The identifying feature is a trigger type handle for convenient clamping and release. You've probably seen them before. I'm using these in the interim until I make an enclosure. The don't stand up on their own, but it's not hard to make a stand for the clamps. I'm probably going to buy a few band clamps, considering that I bought a few more lenses (and the bar clamps look a bit strange). A band clamp is basically a nylon strap for holding an object and a mount used to connect the strap to a surface. Band clamps are made to hold round or oddly shaped objects. You can probably find them at homedepot.com or other hardware stores. These are just for testing. If I ever get around to making an enclosure, I would think that it would have custom mounts or mounts from a educational/hobby store.

I tried the fresnel lens from my OHP as a diffuser for the spotlight, but it didn't work out. I really didn't expect it to anyway. Maybe the other lenses will work out.

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), April 19, 2002.

Hi mmj, Thanks for the info, btw how do you mount your lenses? Are there lens mounts for all types of lens? because i believe that in surplus shed you just buy the lens right or do they have the appropriate lens mounts as well?

thanks....

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 19, 2002.

Well having caught up somewhat on my e-mail, I realised our friend the "ass" did write to me. Appologies for not getting back to you in time to help. It occurs to me though that our friend, being so industrious, must have read the board before writing and complaining etc... And because he did not recieve any personal assistance the knowledge given him by the posts here doesn't count, somehow. And he miraculously came up with the best available plan by completely disregaurding everything he gleened from this page. Having completely put out of his mind all of the information read here, so as to create a "pure grail" on the subject uninfected by our obviously lesser ideas. He proceeded to create this grail and now wishes to dangle it in front of us in form of punishment for posting such ludicrous garbage.

Sorry in a very sarcastic mood this morning but you get the picture.

I don't buy it, and something doesn't suddenly become "yours" cause you decide it. I imagine we'll be seeing this guy swindling people all over the web with his compilation of our material. Oh well, it all comes around and goes around. (kind of wish I hadn't been so helpful in my reply).

KEEP IT FREE!

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), April 19, 2002.

ravin, I tried it once. I need to look at it a little more. I just haven't had time. The light that I borrowed was the exact one that I pointed out. The light output is very bright, and in no small part due to the reflectors. The problem that I had was that the beam was too concentrated. I could see the image very clearly...well the middle anyway. A diffuser would probably be needed, or at least a lens that would allow a wider angle beam. I'm going to try the lens approach. I recently purchased a few lenses from Surplus Shed including the Fujinon TV projection lens. So, I should be able to try a few, different configurations. Surplus Shed is great. I'll let you know if I have any better luck. It's still worth looking into right now.

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), April 18, 2002.

Sorry guys, But has anyone seen or used the lights that mmj mentioned earlier in his post? The website is http://www.ccrane.com/3_million_spotlight.asp A 400W spotlight that puts out 3 million candle power which works out to be 37 million lumens. Does that sound right? mmj have you seen or tried it yet...would love to hear about it....

cheers

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 17, 2002.

Hi, Kudos Miles, very impressive. I just would like to add that the general consensus are to use an Active matrix LCD panel for better image quality and better brightness. Secondly, i don't think that more light output is always better since the projected image might look washed-out and it will definetely reduce the contrast ratio, so maybe you should be a little cautious on that approach. But for a very large image you would want every ounce of lumens that you can get... happy hunting...

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 17, 2002.

Hey all, got a few minutes. Awsome work Miles. I have a glass bead screen set up and it is a definate improvement. After having read your post I may try to put a bit of acurve in it, as my viewing cone right now is wider than my viewing area (physical space of room). I would say that the higher the reflectivity of the screen tha greater the effect of the ambient light. When I have a light on near the screen or over the projector it seems to mix into the image and wash-out a bit. but at 20' with a 3000 ansi lumen OHP I have a 72" picture which is very watchable with 2 60 watt bulbs on in the room an away from the direct line of the projection. I can also add a page magnifier box over the entire assembly and inctrease picture to around 110" but light is lost, this is consistant with your outline.

Over all very nice work, very appreciated.

Good work on those light sources Raven, I want to check into that stuff as soon as I get some more time and money.

Keep up the great work you guys your really keeping this board alive.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), April 17, 2002.

Hi guys, For those searching for lighting system, some cool websites on sulphur lights http://www.lightresource.com/press27.html "The 1,425 watt LightDrive 1000 produces 135,000 lumens of sunlight-quality light and has a design lifetime of 60,000 hours with no light depreciation. Its high output is ideal for light pipe applications, allowing lengths of up to 65 feet with a single lamp. The lamp achieves full light output in only 25 seconds, can be dimmed to 20 percent of output and has a color rendering index of 79."

Fusion Lighting also has 100 watt and 200 watt bulb systems designed for projectors. The 200 watt model, according to that efficiency level, could produce 18,947 lumens of bulb output. Now that would make one hell of a projector and all of their projector bulbs do not need fans because so much of the light produced is visible light, not infrared.

http://eande.lbl.gov/CBS/NEWSLETTER/NL6/S-Lamp.html http://www.fusionlighting.com/technology.htm http://www.fusionlighting.com/sulfur.htm http://www.fusionlighting.com/special.htm

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 17, 2002.

OK – I have done a little bit more research, and have answered one of my own questions plus an issue that Mike had posted about earlier. I asked about the basis for the assertion that we need 10,000 lumens output and stated that the need for output would depend on the size and quality of the projected image desired and the ambient light. Well, I have found out that this is correct. Also, Mike posted a story about someone who got a very bright picture using a washing machine for a screen. I have also found out why this is so.

Here is a quick primer on projection technology. Basically, your light source shoots out a measure of light (lumens). This light passes through a LCD where some is stopped and some move on. They then hit a screen where they are (hopefully) distributed evenly over the area of your image. For each square foot a certain amount of them bounce off of the image and back to your eyes. If the amount coming back to your eyes is enough greater than the ambient light then you will get a good picture. From this we can see that there are five variables that we need to consider – 1. light source output, 2. percentage of light that passes through your LCD, 3. size of the image, 4. the return of light from your screen, and 5. ambient light.

1. Light source output - Not much to say on this one. More is better.

2. Percentage of light that passes through your LCD – I don’t know how much control we have over this one. I saw only one bit of information about this one in my hours and hours of surfing. It said that only 5-10% of the light that strikes an LCD panel actually gets through. I do not know if this is true or not, but it is a starting point. Any additional information would be helpful.

3. Size of the image – This one is totally in our control and is the one that I am really most interested in since I want to make a giant outdoor screen. Basically, your light (lumens) are going to be divided over the entire area of your image. Therefore, if you have a given number of lumens, your image will be brighter as it shrinks. Conversely, if you are trying to get a larger image size with the same brightness you will need more lumens.

4. Return of light from your screen – This is also known as “screen gain.” If you cannot increase the amount of light that you are sending towards your screen, you can increase the amount of light that your screen is bouncing back to your eyes. There are two ways to increase this amount. First of all, you can change the screen material to make it more reflective. Using this method you can take your matte white flat screen from a gain of 1 (also known as “utility gain”) up to a flat screen made of special material with a gain of 3.1. FYI – Matt earlier mentioned the Da-Lite High Power screen, which has glass beads in it, and this material has a gain of 2.8. Also, this is why that person mentioned to Mike that the image seemed brighter when shown on the side of a white gloss washing machine. The other way to increase the amount of light that your screen bounces back is to curve the screen towards the viewer. These angles will consolidate the amount of light being reflected into the eyes of the viewer. Curved screens can have a gain as high as 13. Great, so why don’t we all make shiny curved screen? Well, there is a trade off. As your gain increases your viewing cone, which is the cone emanating from the image inside of which you want to sit to best view the image, decreases. For example, a matte white flat screen has a gain of 1 but a viewing cone of 50 degrees. Therefore, if you sit within 25 degrees to the left or right of the image, you should see about the same brightness as the person who is looking head on. However, the Da-Lite High Power screen has a gain of 2.8 but a viewing cone of 25 degrees. Therefore, you have to sit within 12.5 degrees of the image in order to have the same image as someone looking head on. This makes sense – as the gain increases it is taking extra light away from people sitting off to the sides and is concentrating it on the people directly in front. If you want to know more, look at “Understanding Screen Gain” in the Guide at http://www.hometheatervillage.com/guides/Screen_Guide-72.pdf. They have lots of pretty pictures.

5. Ambient light – I have read two conflicting concepts relating to ambient light. One is that it is not important for calculating how much light comes to your eye, but instead, is important for ensuring that as much of the light as possible gets into your eye (i.e., the more ambient light the more your pupil dilates and the less light gets in. The other is that ambient light hits the screen and reflects back into your eyes, resulting in a lower proportion of the light entering your eye actually being related to the image. I have no idea which concept is correct (if either). However, both sources agreed on one thing: as ambient light increases you have to increase the light bouncing off of the screen proportionately. For example, suppose I have a good image with 5 lumens hitting the screen and an ambient light of 1 lumen. I then increase the ambient light to 3 lumens, to get the same image I have to increase the number of lumens hitting the screen to 15 rather than just 7.

Also, we should note that these five variables do not all have an equal return on adjustments. For example, assume that I have a light source of 7,800 lumens, an LCD that lets 10% of the light through, a screen size of 8x6, a screen gain of 1, and an ambient light of 1. Since (7,800 (lumens)*10% (which gets through)*1 (gain))/(8*6 (screen size)) = 16.25, I have a picture with 16.25 lumens/sq ft.: 1. The LCD reflects a percentage of every lumen from your light source – therefore for every 1 lumen that you add to your light source you will increase the lumens per square foot by less than 2/1000. 2. The LCD reflects a percentage of every lumen from your light source – therefore for every percentage that you decrease your LCD’s blocking characteristics you increase the lumens per square foot by 1.625. 3. The lumens that make it to the screen are spread out over the entire area of the image – therefore when maintain your aspect ratio (which you would want to do) but shrink your image by 50% you increase your lumens per square foot by 48.75 (a 200% increase). 4. Screen gain is a measure of how many lumens are reflected off of your entire screen – therefore, you multiply the number of lumens hitting your screen by the screen’s gain to see how many lumens are bouncing back. Going from a gain of 1 to 1.1 will give you an increase in lumens per square foot of 1.625. 5. As noted, you must maintain the ratio of lumens bouncing off of the screen to lumens from ambient light – therefore, a decrease in the ambient light by 1 lumen will decrease the number of lumens required for a good image by the number of lumens required for a good image when there is only 1 lumen (reported to be between 5 and 10 lumens but I cannot verify). In my example, an increase from 1 lumen of ambient light to 4 lumens would mean that I have to increase my lumens per square foot to 65 lumens per square foot.

Now, I do not believe that LCD reflectivity is within our control. Nor do I believe that most of us really want to compromise on screen size (after all, what would be the point in the project). Therefore, it seems that the variables that we can control are, in order of importance, 1. ambient light, 2. screen gain, and 3. light source output.

If anyone is interested, I created an Excel spreadsheet that will calculate the maximum sized screen you can have based upon your light source, LCD reflectivity, screen gain, and ambient light. One quick disclaimer - I think that I got it to work correctly, but no guarantees. Anyone interested can just e-mail me and I will send it.

Sorry for the long post, but this was a whole lot of stuff!

- Miles

-- Miles Bondurant (dislecksea@mindspring.com), April 16, 2002.

Oh yeah. The scan doubler question. As I understand it normal NTSC signal is 640x480 interlaced, this means we see every other horisontal line each scan. So you are seeing 640 by 240 twice for each video frame. With the scan doubler, on a vga or better monitor you will see the same resolution non interlaced. In other words 640 by 480 once for each frame of video. If you have a VGA or better with a Video Input, it probably already has the scan doubler on board.

Hope this is helpful, Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), April 16, 2002.

Sorry for being away so long, and sorry I am still unable to dedicate any time to the boards at the moment. I have been so busy I had to let something go and unfortunatly my own enjoyment is always the lowest priority.

Have not kept up with all posts of late, seems to be alot of bickering in recent stuff.

I should make it clear that this board was not started with the intention of coming up with "one" way to do it, the intention was to prove the principle in such a way that it could be applied to a mirriad of projects.

I don't remember recieving an e-mail from the "Ass" either. Sounds like were "really missing out" there. Wonder if he ever would have approached the project without exposure to this board. When Chance and I started it you could only find one site on the web doing anything like it and this was DIY audio forum. DIY was lost in experimentation with LED light sources, and I beleive this is the first comprehensive site on the subject.

Again this works for video, Data,clocks, watches, caller IDs, digital thermomiters etc......

If you build a panel for OHP your next upgrade will only be the cost of the LCD and you might be able to sell your old unit.

I gotta go I've got so many deadlines, right now I'm pulling my hair out.

I will answer all the e-mails I have been getting in a couple weeks, sorry best I can do. I am also trying to get back to sending out all the free stuff, I haven't forgotten, and I feel awful, I'm usually a very responsible person.

Good work folks, keep it up.

Mike (the original)

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), April 16, 2002.

Hi miles, I'm no expert in this but from what i understand from the website that you posted is that a line doubler merely does 640X480 and the the 'XGA Theater' and the rest of the video scalers are able to do XGA... but then again i might be wrong...so lets see if any of the experts here can clarify it for us...Mike are you listening?

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 14, 2002.

Ravin, Actually, I was just trying to summarize what I was reading here. It is a type of "active listening" technique that I have found useful. Bascially, I am repeating very basically what I thought that I read and am hoping that someone will confirm it for me (e.g., true/false). I do not know if my statements are true or not. I just know that they are based upon other posts in this thread.

You sound like you have reason to believe that some of them are false. Would you be willing to explain why they are false so that lesser minds (like mine) can figure out where their thinking went astray? :) Miles

-- Miles (dislecksea@mindspirng.com), April 14, 2002.

Hmmm...OK, this is basically a copy of a post I made on the diyaudio.com thread. Sorry for the long post!

For anyone interested, here is an update on my progress so far:

I am using the nView Spectra C panel with an LOA 65watt Fluorex light and plano-convex (PCX) lens from www.surplusshed.com (it is 4.5" in diameter with a focal length of 12.5", item #L1593). With just three parts, I can get a surprisingly clear, although fairly dim, image. I will make measurements of the produced image and possibly pics (if they turn out) as soon as possible. Without using a point-source light with a fresnel, I am probably losing a good bit of light as it is scattered to places other than the PCX lens. The apparent brightness should increase when I build an enclosure to house and contain the lighting. Right now, I am only holding the lens in front of the projector by hand (not very practical!).

I was surprised to find that the PCX lens alone could produce an image, because I intended to use it to gather the large image source to send to a Fujinon lens assembly. But after some thought, it made some sense. The image is clear, but the coloring is not optimised yet, because I think the "Macrovision" copy-protection is kicking in when I use the composite out on my DVD player. Hmmm. Maybe I'll try the s-video. Has anyone else had this problem? The brightness fades in and out sporadically.

I hope to build a nice enclosure and upgrade the lighting in the near future. Does anyone have a suggestion on enclosure materials? I would like to stay away from wood--maybe steel sheets or aluminum.

Also, has anyone else seen the $20 MH bulbs at Home Depot? They are Philips 175w and 400w, but I'm having a hard time getting more info. Add that to a $44 ballast from elights (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/elights/methalbal175.html) and a socket, and that should be a nice, cheap MH setup.

Hopefully this info can help somebody. Good luck everyone!

f4

-- fender4 (nadyleets@hotmail.com), April 13, 2002.

Oh..of course sneaky bastage, you have definetely found the holy grail of LCD projectors....and please feel free not share the idea...

cheers to you...

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 13, 2002.

What's up with the guy that sounds like an ass but didn't mean to sound like one? I never got an e-mail from him. Oh well, no offense dude, but you just sounded like the typical moron.

-- Richard (ruthfmly@yahoo.com), April 13, 2002.

I sent an email out to a bunch of you who were currently working on building a projector. I probably sent out emails to 15 people, and I didn't get one single response. I now have a 105" production quality projector sitting here that I built from scratch for $220. I could have used some help a few weeks ago when I was emailing all of you. Thanks for nothing folks, I figured it all out myself. The picture looks just like my 50" big screen TV, only it's twice as big. I don't mean to sound like an ass, but I'm wondering why no one responded. I have created the ultimate plans for building a home made LCD projector, and I've proved that my idea works by building a functional unit. My replacement bulbs are only $7. But, don't ask me how I did it. Had I received some help from you morons when I first started this project, I would have shared my findings with all of you.

-- sneaky bastage (j@jman123123123123.com), April 13, 2002.

Sorry, Its QXGA 2048 X 1536...not QXSGA...sorry

regards

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 13, 2002.

Hi Miles, You stated that " If I buy an LCD panel with 640x480, VGA input, and add a Cheese Box (http://www.tvone.com/cheesebox.shtml) then I will have a screen resolution better than broadcast television (a.k.a. an NTSC input). 3. If I buy an LCD panel with 800x600, VGA input, and add a Cheese Box then I will have a screen resolution approaching HDTV." is this true? IMO a line doubler like the cheese box will only do 640X480, to get an XGA resolution you would at least need the 'XGA Theater' or one of the video scalers. BTW if i am using 20.8" lcd panel of QXSGA (2,048 X 1,536)coupled with a progressive video scaler, how much of improvement can i see in the picture quality based on resolution? Does it improve the resolution?

Correct me if i'm wrong....thanks

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 13, 2002.

Hey mmj, i saw that website and the conversion from candle power to lumens is candle power/ 0.079 , that works about to 37 million lumens, is that right? Anyway does anyone know how much heat is generated? thanks,

-- ravin (ravide@2die4.com), April 12, 2002.

O.K., this is my first post, so please be gentle. Also, I am not the most technically adept person in the world, so please be extra gentle. I have recently (almost) finished building myself the world’s ugliest Mame Cabinet so I figured I might step up and take on a new challenge. My house is not ideal for a projection screen television because it has few good walls without windows or doors. However, my wife and I are sinking a significant amount of money into redoing our backyard and it is pretty dark back there at night when I turn off the lights. I saw a guy on HGTV who had a projector and a screen that he could set up outside and have a “drive-in” movie experience. I figure that if I can set something like this up I can have 30+ people over and show a movie on a big screen at night during the spring, summer, and fall (we live in Atlanta).

My plan is to buy a TFT LCD panel and overhead projector on ebay and run a long S-Video cable from my DVD player. Then I could elevate my “projector” and have it hit a large piece of fabric equally elevated 20-30 feet away. I figure that this should give a big enough image with enough clarity for people who will be sitting no less than 15 feet away more likely 20-40 feet away. It is my intent to figure out the best distances once and then mark the spots so that they will always be the same – I do not intend to adjust the setup to manipulate the size or clarity depending on what is being watched. These are just rough ideas - any suggestions, concerns, critiques, or criticisms would be appreciated.

Well, enough about me; on to my question.

I have read all of the posts at http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and- a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=006hui and at the yahoogroups.com home built project group. There is lots of talk spread out over numerous posts, so I would like to summarize in one shot what I THINK I know and I would like for someone with more knowledge than me (i.e., everyone) to confirm or correct it for me.

1. The higher the screen resolution, the clearer the picture. 2. If I buy an LCD panel with 640x480, VGA input, and add a Cheese Box (http://www.tvone.com/cheesebox.shtml) then I will have a screen resolution better than broadcast television (a.k.a. an NTSC input). 3. If I buy an LCD panel with 800x600, VGA input, and add a Cheese Box then I will have a screen resolution approaching HDTV. 4. Because an overhead projector has both a fresnel lens to distribute the light from below and a fresnel lens above to distribute the light on its way to the screen, the optics should not be an issue. Besides slight focusing, the only variable will be the size of the picture, which will be determined by the distance from the projector to the screen.

I also have some questions. 1. Lots of people are talking about needing 10,000+ lumens. However, they do not state what they are trying to do with their projectors. Is that what you need for a lit room or a darkened room? Doesn’t the distance from the projector to the screen make a difference? Doesn’t the size of the projected image make a difference? Can anyone say that a _________ lumen projection _____ feet from the screen creates a ______ sized image that is acceptable, good, great, etc? I understand that it will be just and opinion, but I would rather have that than have my project stall because I am attempting to rig up a light source that is more powerful than I need. Unlike most of the folks here I will be happy with a acceptable/good picture whereas they want a great/perfect picture. The real draw here will be the atmosphere of watching movies outside during the summer, not the quality of the image. 2. How big can an image get before it looses its resolution to an unacceptable level? I figure that the further people are away from the screen the less of an issue this is, but I am not sure. 3. Will the increase in resolution that I get using a Cheese Box make a difference since I am planning on projecting such a large image? 4. Will the increase in resolution that I get using a Cheese Box make a difference since my DVD player is not progressive scan (assuming that I have a LCD panel that will accept S-Video)?

Thanks for all of the help. Sorry for the long post, but I only started learning about all of this stuff a couple of days ago.

-- Miles Bondurant (dislecksea@mindspring.com), April 12, 2002.

oh i had a great idea what i'm going to use as mycase (if i can,) i have an old nintendo that i haked up for my mame project i'm thinking about using the nes case and cutting a hole for the lens c ya'll later

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), April 10, 2002.

okay tere is a link on a bunch of different peoples sites http://www.netrix.net/timeline/lcd.html well i had been there before and found the items too expensive but when i went back on the bottem of the page i found

6" VGA LCD $15.00 Mfr: Sanyo LMDK55-22 640 x 480

15 bucks!!!

has neone used this if so ne problemsi'm orderin two i can't find a spec any where but i asked them for one before i order thought you might like the tip

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), April 10, 2002.

mmj,

I have ordered a plan-convex lens from Surplus Shack that should be here any day now. It has a longer focal length than any of my other lenses, so maybe that will help. I think by using a longer focal length lens, I may be able to "gather" more of the image to "send" to the Fujinon lens assemly. I might be way off base with that theory, but it's worth a try (otherwise, it will just collect dust!).

I will post my results, positive or negative, when I receive the lens. Good luck, everyone.

-f4

http://fender410.tripod.com

-- fender4 (nadyleets@hotmail.com), April 09, 2002.

fender4, I'm also trying to find a way to condense a larger LCD. I would be very interested if you discover a way to do this. I haven't found and good solutions. I have an old 3M projector that I've been using for tests. The lenses, seem to be positive meniscus lenses. I'm sure it's probably different for other projectors. I doubt that they use achromats though, but I could definitely be wrong since I never checked into the nicer ones. I would think that the LCD projectors would use achromats, but not OHP. I posted a good site for a lens shape tutorial a while ago. The site is for microscopes, but they have a lot of good information on optics including lenses, lighting, focal point, and I think even achromats. There may be a space in the URL that I had posted if it doesn't work. I seem to get them when I copy and paste. The site might be helpful.

As for the lighting source, I was about to build a MH 400 Watt light with a homemade reflector, when a friend of mine sent me information on a spotlight he was thinking about buying for camping and such. the exact light he was thinking about can be found here http://www.ccrane.com/3_million_spotlight.asp . I'm still not sure about the candle power to lumen conversion. I did it quickly and the numbers that I get for the conversion seem way too high. He's going to buy the light, and let me try it out. I'm not expecting it to work well, but it may give me a hint on another way to go besides a 400 watt MH monster.

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), April 08, 2002.

I just got here from the 100" tv thread and am trying to catch up, but the newest posts are listed on the top of the page, making it difficult for me to follow the time line. Is there a way of viewing the post in a different format like oldest message first?

Thanks

S.

-- S (legaucy@hotmail.com), April 07, 2002.

you guys might know this already but i priced ps1 lcd's @ funcoland & they have them for $50 used. thought that might help.

keep your fingers crossed, monday i should know if i can get a ps2 monitor relitively cheap

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), April 07, 2002.

Just wanted to post an update.

I have tried out the LOA 65w Fluorex from Wal-mart (the same as the Home Depot version), and I agree with previous posters about the "washing out" of the image. I am assuming this is a characteristic of any non-point-source light. So, I am currently looking for a high-lumen, low-heat, long-life, inexpensive, point- source light...any suggestions?! Unfortunately, it seems that compromise is inevitable, and a metal halide setup might be in my future. I, like Tomithy, would like to keep the cost as small as possible, so I will continue to look for alternatives. I also would like to make it as small as possible, so that's why I have initally shyed away from the OHP approach.

Another issue I am dealing with is finding a way to condense the 8.5" diameter LCD image into a 4" or smaller lens for projection. OHP's accomplish this using a fresnel before the LCD to direct (condense) the rays to the head lens/mirror, but I have had no success trying this with a page magnifier fresnel. As it stands, I can only project about half of the image clearly.

Question: Are the lens(es) in the head of an OHP double-convex lenses or achromats?

Sorry to ramble...hopefully someone can learn from my experiences. I certainly have learned much from everyone else here. Good luck!

-f4

-- fender4 (nadyleets@hotmail.com), April 06, 2002.

www.lightsofamerica.com

-- gavin messenger (gavmess@ihug.com.au), April 05, 2002.

lights of america do they have a web site or just @ wally-world or somthing

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), April 05, 2002.

LOA= Lights Of America...a manufacturer of a certain brand of light thet people are testing with :) Better introduce myself too, Gavin here, like most of the others started on the 100inch tv and are now in pursuit of better clarity and resolution....

BTW NO-ONE outbid me on my proxima panel on ebay please!!!! :)

-- gavin messenger (gavmess@dingoblue.net.au), April 05, 2002.

Welcome Aboard Tomithy. Good Luck.

Later all have a good productive weekend.

Tim

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), April 05, 2002.

oh can someone post what type of lenses that they know work, i'd rather start with one that works and play with it than find out it wouln't work anyway. i read about the delta 20 and the fujison or sompin' i was kind of wanting cheaper like at a thrift store. i'd like to set the record and build the cheapest(but exelent) possible projector. may-b $50 or less, hell it'll be worth a shot i know it probably won't be that cheap but my wife's been onto me about all the projects i have goin. (i'm building 2 computers, a MAME arcade cab. thats three pcs, hacking nintendo-pc interfaces + alot more crap like this, and cleaning out the basement to have someware to do all this) so i have to keep the cost low to keep her happy.

-- tomithy83 (tomithy83@yahoo.com), April 05, 2002.

whew! i just found the 100" board 3-4 days ago. read halfway through it. decided that i liked the lcd proj. better and read ALL of this board. man this is great. i've already started buying up the parts to build one. does neone know how to convert a laptop monitor to use a vga input, also what does LOA stand for. oh, and i dont want to start sidetracking but mike, inmy book you aare a genious (sp) you'll hear from me plenty more w/questions

thanks tomithy

-- tomithy (tomithy83@yahoo.com), April 05, 2002.

I don't think this board is "dead" at all. I'm sure people are just busy...it's easy to get caught up in other projects. This project seems to attract some bright DIYers from many different areas of interest.

I am just starting the construction phase of my project. I received my panel tonight! It is an nView 640x480 OHP panel with s-video and VGA inputs, but I don't plan on using it with a pre-made OHP. I have several lenses and fresnels to play around with, so hopefully I can find a combination that works. I'm using the LOA light for now...that will probably change based on what I've read over the last month or so. Once I can find a configuration that produces an image, I will probably try to disassemble the nView panel for construction flexibility and cooling purposes. Has anyone here taken one apart?

Hopefully everyone will find time to post their progress soon. I need some inspiration! Good luck, everyone, and thanks for sharing your experiences.

-f4

-- fender4 (nadyleets@hotmail.com), April 05, 2002.

Hey people, this forum has all but come to a stop. Have I missed something? There was some really talented people here with some really great ideas, it sure kept me interested. Mike, Graham, Tim, Chance, everybody where have you all gone? We've really been looking forward to your results and pics. Don't abandon us hopefuls now, not when I was just getting my nerve up to buy my own equipment to start my own project. Please keep the forum going for the rest of us....

-- T (anklecast@hotmail.com), April 04, 2002.

95 degrees fahrenheit, that is =)

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), April 02, 2002.

on the 5" LCD, if it's the one sony makes for PS1, high end of operating temp is 95 degrees per spec sheet.

on another note, ordered an nView Spectra (540C?) through the link Tim mentioned below at invsol-inc.com. received it yesterday and have run a few tests, will post results in the next few days. for the $50 Tim mentioned, you only get VGA inputs. for $75 you get multiple inputs. $15 for shipping, is used of course, has nice case, cables, and working remote. to order one, use reference #7070 to get this particular one.

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), April 02, 2002.

Ravin,

Try doing a search for spec sheets for the model you are curious about. They usually include temperature ranges for operation. For example, the AND-TFT-25EN LCD has an operating temp of -10 to +60 degrees Celsius.

Good luck to everyone...

-f4 http://fender410.tripod.com

-- fender4 (nadyleets@hotmail.com), April 02, 2002.

Does anyone have an idea what temperature would cause the lcd panel(5") to burnout?

-- Ravin (ravide@2die4.com), March 28, 2002.

Mike,

Sorry, been away from the boards again for too long! Congrats on the good news about the display.. I am finally finding time to work on my projector.

To answer you previous question......

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Good hearing from you again Graham. By the way You live in the UK right? (I'm never sure what is politically correct way of describing the country of England; is it England, Great Britain, United Kingdom, or UK or does it matter?) Anyway have you heard any news on the new transpo system, an automated one car train that would take passengers to any of several locations? Sounds like a city wide coin-op horisontal elevator. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well I live in England. However, if you're referring to England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland its the UK. Actually, now I'm not sure(!). Anyone from Scotland won't appreciate being called English. Safe bet is to refer to the lot as the UK (or United Kingdom). I'm not fussed though, they all apply to me!

Horizontal Elevator? You mean our trams? No idea!

Anyway... The projector - to clarify, this is with your 5" PS1 screen and OHP? Have you concentrated the light output of the OHP to 'fit it' through the screen?

3000 lumens isn't a huge amount, and you say you can have a couple of lamps on in the room? That's encouraging!! I guess 3000 lumens is the equivalent of about 150/200watts? If so, are you planning to replace the light stage with a more compact source (fluorescents etc?)

Anyway... looking forward to your pictures!

WHITE LEDS: Don't bother... essentially! For the light output you need about 3000 LEDs. At even a dollar each, thats a lot of money! Until the technology comes down in price (or increases in efficiency) its just not practical. Stick to MH or Fluorescents.

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), March 25, 2002.

Will be investigating PayPal.com today. Some time getting freed up so expect results soon I hope.

Hang in there, thanks for your patience.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (M_langway@bigfoot.com), March 25, 2002.

Hey all, New (used) Da-Lite screen (7'x8') installed in viewing room. The image is fantasic at 72" diagonal 20' from target (3000 ansi lumens OHP). But that big old screen just had too much extra space on it, so I had to start fiddling with optics. I can now choose between 72" and 115" picture by just moving a lense and refocusing. The 72" picture could go up against a 5 or 6 year old rear projection screen for quality. The 110" picture is really big but a little dimmer and more pixcelated. I prefer to use the 115" for sporting events and day to day TV and switch over to the 72" for DVDs and other movies.

You won't believe how simple it was to do the enlargement. I just combined the 100" TV project into my LCD panel. Actually I just put 4 film canisters around my stage and rested my "inner" box fresnel lense on these, then refocused the OHP arm. There is still light leaking out all over the place, so I know I can only be looking at improvement with the next version. The 72" can be watched with 2 60 watt bulbs on, in the center of the room ( although not preferrable). And when watching in complete darkness it is no longer a dismal experience, but the TV image actually illuminates the room somewhat!

Have done all this with the PS1 monitor from Sony. I think I can get another 20" on the diagonal with a small improvement. I will be trying to shoot screen images tonight, but have been told they will probably come out pretty dim, we'll see.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 25, 2002.

I may try building the projector from the plans on BSTV. I just need to raise the money for it. I'm going with the Playstation monitor, since the Game Gear one just sucks and can't get it to work anymore. Doesn't matter, theres no way to get the circiut board out of the way on the Game Gear. If I ever get started on the project, I'll post results.

-- Richard (ruthfmly@yahoo.com), March 23, 2002.

Hey Guys! Found great pics of a new plan on the BSTV site. They have posted a link for the lcd project. These pics come complete with plans, so I can also post those. Anyway, I posted those diagrams on the lcd board on yahoo. Hope you like them!

-- Richard (ruthfmly@yahoo.com), March 23, 2002.

Hey Steve, Welcome aboard. These guys over at DIY audio were doing alot of experimenting with LED light sources last time I checked. Unsure of results.

http://www.diyaudio.com

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 22, 2002.

I've recently moved into an old cotton mill that was converted into apartments. One of the nicest things about the place is the 11-foot ceilings. So my roommate and I, being card-carrying computer geeks and do-it-yourselfers, immediately started thinking about inexpensive ways to get a projection unit up and running for computer gaming and DVD watching.

Which explains how I've made my way here.

I'm still coming up to speed on how this whole process works, but I did notice that there's a lot of concern over the amount of heat produced by any lamp capable of projecting a decent image. I suspect many of you have seen the new ultra bright LED flashlights that are coming into common use. These LEDs are available alone for under $3.00 apiece, and are impressively bright without producing noticable heat.

Here's a link to a .PDF spec sheet over at www.allelectronics.com: http://www.allelectronics.com/spec/LED-75.pdf

The "Luminous Intensity" is listed as a minimum of 1650, and typically 3000. Is this Lumens? Also, are Lumens cumulative? Would an array of these LEDs eventually add up to the 10,000+ Lumens required for a nice projected image?

-- Steve Young (smy_ma@yahoo.com), March 21, 2002.

I got this link from the DIYAudio Forum.

I called them and here is what I got. I just got off the phone with Bob Buchanan and he will strip the optics form the overheads for us. He will sell the fresnel and overhead optics for $25.00 US. He also has a few hundred working 640x480 lcd projection panels he'll take $50.00 US.

http://www.invsol-inc.com/rec_catalog.asp?since=01%2F01%2F01&query=pro jector&submit=Search Tim

-- Tim (lewellyn@smithville.net), March 20, 2002.

100" TV project is at: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0038A5

as far as the trial and error goes, it's mostly due to the fact that we're all scrapping for parts, and every overhead or slide projector lens has different specs. can over overhead lens apparatus to project or use an actual rear proj lens from www.surplusshed.com for $10-$15, depending on which you get. if you're truly interested in the project, take the time to read all of this board and all of the 100" board. learn about how the lenses and optics work.

also check out: http://www.howstuffworks.com and search for projection tv http://enrich.sdsc.edu/SE/opticsintro.html (SE must be caps, No www.!) http://www.diyaudio.com and find their TV project.

best of luck!

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), March 20, 2002.

Where is the 100" TV Board that is referred to in several places here?

Richard Carrey

-- Richard Carrey (richardcarrey@yahoo.com), March 19, 2002.

Would a sega gamegear lcd work? Would anybody know how to modify them?

-- Todd (anklecast@hotmail.com), March 19, 2002.

Hey people, keep up the good work. Yhis is certainly some interesting reading. I have been in touch with Mike a couple of times to find out info on some monitors. He suggested that I should post here to see what we come up with. I haven't starting building yet but I'm sure eager to try. I am looking for suggestions for different LCD monitors and where to get them. Also what types of lenses would be good to use. I know that this was all posted before but that would be an awful lot of backtracking to do. Any suggestions would be helpful. I personally would like to keep it as small as possible but it's the results that count. Thaks in advance for any replies...

-- Todd (anklecast@hotmail.com), March 19, 2002.

FREE STUFF; ALL OF YOU WHO ARE AWAITING PROMISED ITEMS FROM ME!; Todd got back to me on that URL and I am beginning to check into how the place works. The name is Paypal.com and as soon as I can figure out how it goes I'll be contacting each of you w/ instructions on how to pay for (SHIPPING ONLY)and recieve your items.

Thanks for being so patient you guys, I'm not an extremely patient person myself, so I understand you might be anxious.

Have not heard on any of the other items yet, keeping ears open.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 19, 2002.

Hey Richard, Sounds like a cool project. I would stay away from trying the CRT route because of the distance of the Target. The CRT Projector otherwise known as the 100" TV project or the Ghetto Projector Box is rather dim and unsatisfying. However a new PDF guide has recently been posted at the 100" TV board, I would recommend this to EVERYONE. It has a great little section on understanding the optics.

The LCD projectors come out a great deal closer to buying the real thing, can be made much more powerful, and offer more flexibility. The simplest route is to turn your LCD into a projection panel and put it on an OHP (overhead projector), this would also be your safest route.

Mike

PS. You might be interested in a project idea over at "strange things you can make in your kitchen". This guy came up with a way to hook up a laser to a comutor graphics card, mount the whole thing in an old van and slowly "burn" a new graphic over a bulletin board.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 19, 2002.

I am interested in projecting my company logo out of the window on to a wall across a narrow street. The wall is about 50 feet from the nearest window, but there is a nice white painted patch about 6 feet square on it. Ideally the logo will be in colour and animated, though it only needs to be visible at night. I want to do this on the cheap and as a project rather than going out and buying a proper projector, so it looks like I came to the right place for advice!

I have two options for starting : either use a PC with either a CRT monitor or an old laptop screen that I can break up, or use a colour Palm IIIC I have lying around. I can do the programming for animation on either device (I think) so that isn't a consideration. Which would be the best way to go?

My dimensions are a bit different from most of yours : you want to get a large picture close up, whilst I want it further away, but still bright enough to be seen.

I can see most of you going for smaller LCDs, eg 5". Is that because they are cheap and good enough, or is there an optical reason why starting small is better?

Is there a site that explains the optics involved ? - there seems to be a bit of trial and error going on regarding the positioning of the various components.

What would be the consensus on the best light source for this sort of project? I would be a bit worried about leaving such a home made projector on over night if it was going to generate a lot of heat - I REALLY don't want to burn the office down!

I'd be grateful for any pointers you might have to get me off on the right foot.

Richard

-- Richard (richardcarrey@yahoo.com), March 19, 2002.

Hello everyone,i was wondering, has anyone ever tried a ps2 screen??...i know that they are quite a bit of money, and i dont have that much money right now. anyways, i have to go

-- dan deBoer (dandeboer_123@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

HELP!!! I have got to find a practical way to ship some hardware w/out incurring costs to myself, and without incurring major increases in shipping costs. (this is on this board because this is where I offered to give the related equiptement away).

Somebody made a suggestion the other day, about an online service. I didn't have time to follow-up immidiately and now I can't find the e-mail anywhere.

Everyone who has been promised something is in a special archive, I won't loose track of you.

Suggestions Please, no time for research at the moment.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 15, 2002.

One more link. I was playing with the idea of a reducing lens that would allow me to use a large LCD with a Delta type of projection lens (shrink then project), when I came across this site.

http://www.edmundoptics.com/techsupport/ DisplayArticle.cfm?articleid=267

There is a small section on projection systems and sample optics. They talk a little about using a lens configuration for condesing the light from a source prior to projection. I found it interesting, although a little short. Again, sorry if this is a repost. I didn't check.

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), March 13, 2002.

I just noticed that a space was inserted in the url. This will get you there as well: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/microscopy/variablelens/

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), March 13, 2002.

I was trying to find some different places to find lenses, and I can acros this site. It is an interactive Java applet that shows different types of lenses and their focal points. It very simplistic, so it probably wouldn't be of much interest to some of the folks. For people just starting to look into the project and different types of lenses, it may be helpful. I apologize if someone posted it already.

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/microscopy/variablelens/ index.html

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), March 13, 2002.

Hey Mike, I plan on using a Vcr, but the TV tuner I was talking about is made specially for the game gear. It plugs into where you would insert a game cartridge, and it turns your game gear into a hand held tv. It also has a video input. I could hook up a vcr through that input. Thanks anyway.

-- Richard (ruthfmly@yahoo.com), March 13, 2002.

Hey guys,

I just wanted to pass a link on. I borrowed one of these from work, and I watched Extreme Days video 104 inches diagonal, perfect clarity, even with the lights on, and on a white stucko wall. It quotes 300 inches, and I don'r doubt it for a second.

http://www.projectorsforsale.com/projectors-2.asp?p_id=LP425ZVB&type=4

For $1300, I don't think you can beat it.

I'm not selling them, I'm just passing information on to those who want home theater on a tight budget. I was MAJORLY impressed with the quality, especially with ambient light.

I'm impressed with DLP, I think it is the future of projection.

I hope this does somebody some good. For those who can't afford $1300, stick with Mike, he'll get it.

-- mike smith (videoman@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

THX, By the Way, where have you been Graham, hope all is well? Have you heard anything from Chance, haven't seen a post in a while? By the way the "burn" or "shock" I recieved left no mark and was pretty superficial, just recognised a potential for "danger" that I thought people should be aware of. Do you do a lot of work with cars & particularly electrical systems in cars? The reason I asked is that I have been interested in a project for creating a high voltage source from a "starter coil" and I have stayed away, cause I don't know squat about cars. Maybe you'd be interested in the project, are you into electrostatics?

Good hearing from you again Graham. By the way You live in the UK right? (I'm never sure what is politically correct way of describing the country of England; is it England, Great Britain, United Kingdom, or UK or does it matter?) Anyway have you heard any news on the new transpo system, an automated one car train that would take passengers to any of several locations? Sounds like a city wide coin-op horisontal elevator.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 13, 2002.

Mike,

No-one expects anyone to be pukka spellers... The only reason I pointed it out was that I knew you could take the ribbing in the jovial spirit it was intended... I agree, you're accomplishments DO speak for themselves - you've been the driving force behind this entire board!

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), March 13, 2002.

Matt,

I too have been looking at the SuperKit 2005R. After looking a the specifications it looks like the controler board is mounted on the back of the LCD pannel. It also looks like there are multiple connections to the LCD on different sides. I think it would be difficult to mount the controller out of the way of the LCD pannel without having some sort of extension ribbon cables. This has made me hesitant to try it. Otherwise I'd already have one. :)

-- Patrick Down (pdown@bigfoot.com), March 13, 2002.

Hey Graham, What's up. My spelling is terrible and I'm too darn lazy to go over to word and spell check all the time. My accomplishments speak for themselves, and I can take a little ribbing. If you'll notice, I only get upset when someone is trying to disrupt the flow of the board or discredit me in some way.

Hey Richard, Whats up. On the TV tuner thing, if you go to the thrift store and buy the cheapest VCR you can get (or if you have one), even if it doesn't play tapes it can be used as both a TV tuner and/or an RF modulator. Make sure it has RCA video outputs (this will be a video signal out, NO Modulation), the COAX out will be RF modulated (so it can be seen on channel 3 or 4). You can either hook it up as is, or rip out all the stuff your not useing from the box if you need portability.

ON SCREEN PICTURES- I am attempting to shoot some useing 35mm 400 speed film (I'm no photographer either). I'm unsure though if it will be possable to show the true quality of the image. I no the when you shoot a picture of a TV or computor monitor image you can get very wierd results (related to scan rates and interlacing). Stuff coming soon, very, very busy.

New Glass bead screen--- Was only able to use for an hour or two before the bulbs had blown, but definate improvement noted. Flipping back and forth between my old screen and the Da-lite I did not so much notice an increase in brightness, but more of a sharpening, solidifying effect that lent new depth to the image. It seemed more like watching a CRT than a projected image. The darn tri-pod on the screen requires it to be out from the wall about 3 feet though, reducing my image size. I plan to either remove the tri-pod or find a way to re-mount the screen to it.

Somebody pointed out an interesting descovery to me the other day and I appologize for not remembering who it was. But, they noted that a part of there image, bleeding off the screen, shot down the hall and was brighter shining off the washing machine than the screen. This individual went on to suggest he/she might try sheet metal with a white glossy finish. There is a spray paint called gloss white appliance enamal, out there that might just be fantastic for finishing screens, and I don't think it is nessecary to use metal.

Still trying to find URL from site for shipping COD?

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 13, 2002.

I was thinking of using the SuperKit 2005R - 12.1" Backlit 16.7M Color TFT Analog VGA LCD Kit (http://earthlcd.com/SK2005R.HTM).

Does anyone have any experience with this LCD in terms of being able to take it apart without much difficulty, and also how well it works generally.

Matt

-- Matt (matt_isa@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

Ok, now I know how to put video onto a game gear, with a TV tuner. They sell them on Ebay, but where else can I get one for about 30 dollars? The people selling TV tuners are selling them for over 50 dollars, but 30 is my limit. Thanks.

-- Richard (ruthfmly@yahoo.com), March 12, 2002.

i'm awaiting my replacement panel (first one broke due to circumstances unrelated to projection). when it gets here (any day now), i'll post picts.

my dorms gonna kill me if this whole setup sits here any longer unused anyways.

myren

-- Myren (thefowle@wam.umd.edu), March 12, 2002.

I've just started a site on how to convert a Game Gear to a plain LCD screen, check the page out... http://www.cgocable.net/~kenner/Game%20Gear/

-- David Bartlett (kenner@cgocable.net), March 12, 2002.

Hey, that dude has a good idea with the game gear lcd. So, I opened up my VERY, VERY OLD game gear. Resolution is poor on the lcd, but it works for me as a starting project. Anyway, I opened it up, and I realized that I have no idea how to hook up video to the lcd. Anyone that is a specialist on hooking up video to a lcd that is not meant to, I really need your help. Thanks guys! P.S. I don't remember the name of the dude with the game gear idea, but thanks a lot man!

-- Richard (ruthfmly@yahoo.com), March 11, 2002.

Anyone ever thought of using an LCD from a Game Gear? They're cheep and you can find them all over the place.

-- David Barlett (kenner@cgocable.net), March 11, 2002.

Please could someone upload some photos of the projected image... i really want to see the results. Did anyone get a film-like quality? I really wanna know...

Thanks

-- Microfilm (microfilm@terra.com), March 11, 2002.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention - those leccy shocks off the back of the backlight's inverters only hurt when the charge jumps a gap! Otherwise its a sort of twitching tingle up your arm for a few seconds before you realise!

I took the full brunt of a couple of rounds of HT spark off my car the other day when checking the plug leads... that'll be 30,000 volts then....! After that, the backlight inverter was 'just a tingle' :-D

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), March 11, 2002.

Hehe!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A genious is merely someone who has a higher than average ability to decern patterns that would be unrecognised by most. It gives no indication of education or practical knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That'll be why you spelt genius wrong then! ;-)

Sorry bro, couldn't resist pointing out the obvious irony! No offence meant! Hope all is well at camp Langway....

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), March 11, 2002.

WARNING!!!!!!!

USE CAUTION IN THE REMOVAL OF FLAURESCENT BACKLIGHT!!! I removed my unit but left the transformer connected on the board. THE TRANSFORMER OR BALLAST FOR A FLAURESCENT SOURCE IS HIGH VOLTAGE!!! If you do not disconnect the Transformer use great caution in manipulating your board. I RECIEVED A NASTY LITTLE BURN/SHOCK OVER THE WEEKEND< BY TOUCHING THE TRANSFORMER COIL ACCIDENTALLY WHILE THE UNIT WAS POWERED UP!!!

MIKE

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 11, 2002.

Hey Eric, Yes it is do-able, its how I did my first one, its also how someone else aproached it on this board (photo on yahoo board), and I posted a URL quite a ways back for another site that had done it in that fashion.

When I said certified I simply meant that I had taken an official IQ test on more than one occasion which showed me to have a genious IQ. I normally don't go around telling anyone about it, but it came out in a heated post. Most folks don't really understand what it means, though. A genious is merely someone who has a higher than average ability to decern patterns that would be unrecognised by most. It gives no indication of education or practical knowledge, and I don't even believe it should be used as an indicator of intelegence. You might be interested to know that I droped out of school in the eleventh grade to support my wife and child. I moved on to get a GED and have reached management levels in 4 blue colar trades and 3 white colar trades since. I have studied philosophy, psycology, culture, religion & poetry for about 17 years now. And I have only become interested in physics in the last 8 months. All that I know of Optics has come from reading Newtons optics and experimenting with this stuff. All that I have learned of magnateics, electromagnetics, electrostatics, and vortex theory I have learned through research and experimentation in the last 8 months. I have made practical real world demonstrations of things thought imposible already. As I have said before I am not a scientist and have no desire to be, I am an artist attempting to create real world effects no one has seen before, and will.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 11, 2002.

How about using an old slide projector? Just insert the LCD in the place where the slide would normally go. It would probably need a diffuser such as the cheap fresnel between the light and the lcd. Does this sound do-able? Just a thought- I am not "Certified" yet Mike ; )

-- Erik Mickelson (sonofmickel@yahoo.com), March 09, 2002.

Please could someone upload some photos of the projected image... i really want to see the results. Did anyone get a film-like quality? I really wanna know...

Thanks

-- Microfilm (microfilm@terra.com), March 08, 2002.

hey fender4, the sony 5" LCD for playstation 1 has a movable board, though inconvenient is possible to use for this project. have the same fujinon lens, and it is able to pull the entire picture with no apparent loss of resolution. keep in mind, of course, that with the short focal point of the lens you're very close (within an inch) of the LCD when projecting. i have about a 92" diagonal picture at a distance of 6 1/2 feet, and due to lack of room space haven't gone more. the board on this one must run horizontal above the LCD so the picture flips properly with the lens. lighting i'm still working on.

another option i've seen but not had the opportunity to experiment with is a playstation LCD called madcatz. from the pictures i've seen it has a much smaller and easier to maneuver driver board, and it would also run horizontal above the LCD for our purposes. sony runs 130 retail, is available on ebay for less. haven't checked into the madcatz, i imagine it's similar.

hope it helps and best of luck, troy

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), March 08, 2002.

troy, thanks for the information for the lenses. I was considering the delta, but was unsure about the fujinon. I don't recall anyone trying it out. Unfortunately, I need to get a smaller LCD before I can use it the way I'd want to. It would be great if there was a lens that was big enough and would shrink the image of the larger LCD display to the size that would fit these projection lenses in a very short distance, like a few centimeters. "Very short distance" is the problem. I haven't thought about it much though. Folks may already be doing this. I don't recall.

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), March 08, 2002.

Hello, I stumbled across the homemade LCD projector project in the process of researching my own project. It's very interesting and I may have to try to make one of these. Although this is not quite related to my project you all may be able to help me with some questions I have about LCD projectors.

I am trying to make a stereoscopic projection system for my computer. There are two main ways for doing stereoscopic projection one involves using two projectors with polarized filters set at 90 degrees to each other. The user then wears polarized glasses to filter the correct image for each eye. The other method uses a single projector. The video signal alternates between two images. The user wears a pair of shutter glasses. These glasses filter the correct image to each eye by alternating the opacity or transparency of the lenses in front of each eye in sequence with alternating images.

When I first started researching this project I thought about using LCD projectors. However I found out there is a problem with this. LCD commercial projectors have problems with the polarized light method because they already use polarizers as part of their optics. This makes it impossible to correctly polarize the light when it leaves the projector. Secondly my understanding is that LCD projectors are to slow to use the shutter glass method. I haven't really been able to determine quite what this means although I have some theories. One is most that commercial LCD projectors seem to be locked at a 60Hz refresh rate. With shutter glass systems each eye is getting 1/2 the refresh rate so in this case each eye gets 30Hz. This may have to much flicker. My research shows that it's preferable to run at 100 to 120Hz giving each eye a 50 to 60Hz refresh rate. My other theory is that LCD pixels may persist longer than normal CRT phosphors. Because of this the alternating images may bleed over into one another. I really don't think this is a problem with modern LCDs but I could be wrong.

Given the information above I was going to give up on using LCD projectors. I started looking at CRT projection systems but these are really expensive. ( I wasn't even all that crazy about the price of LCD projectors. ) So I started looking a homemade systems. This lead me to the 100in TV and to your page here.

Once I had the idea that I could make my own LCD projector I started wondering if I could over come some of the problems I listed above. The most promising approach seemed to be polarization. As long as the LCD matrix itself was not polarized then I could make two projectors with the optics polarized the way I needed. So the first question is does anyone know if a normal LCD panel is polarized in any way? I'm not sure I can do anything about the refresh rate problem. Does anyone how much the refresh rate of a normal LCD panel can be adjusted? I imagine there is a good reason the commercial projectors are locked at 60Hz but I don't know much about LCD driver electronics.

Any other ideas?

Anyway, sorry for such a rambling post. I wish all of you success with your projects.

-Patrick Down

-- Patrick Down (pdown@bigfoot.com), March 06, 2002.

Hey everyone. It's been a while since I've posted here (and I've only posted once), but I have been fairly active on the DIYAudio.com board. It's good to read about the progress many of you have made. I recently began to purchase parts for my DIY projector, and I ran into a problem with the Sharp LQ6NC01 5.6" LCD I ordered. It seems that part of the driver board CANNOT be removed without some very extensive extention of some pins (100's of them). I am now looking for an LCD, preferably smaller than 5.6". 4" would be great for use with my Fujinon Lens from www.surplusshed.com (it seems like a really nice lens...this is a very rough estimate, but it made at least a 100" diagonal image from about 10 feet away).

My question is: What LCD's of this size are compatible with this project? In other words, which ones have driver boards that can be easily moved out of the way?

Thanks for your help, and good luck with your projects!

-fender4

P.S. I have a website of links that may be helpful. The address is http://fender410.tripod.com

-- fender4 (nadyleets@hotmail.com), March 06, 2002.

Just a quick update; EXTREMELY BUSY AT MOMENT,

Freebies, those of you waiting for stuff from me; I have checked with the post office about COD. It seems I have to pay up front and be re-imbursed, so I will take stuff to the post office and get exact rates. If I can't cover the cost initially, then I will let you know postage and you could send me stamps or checks, whatever your comfortable with. Back to you guys next week.

Ok Projector is together correctly and mask is finished. I am worried about excess heat so will be using fan after all. I blew the circuit breaker the other day (ad 2 OHPs running on same circuit as my fridge) and it refused to reset. One quick call to an electrician buddy of mine and all is again well. Except that I must have blown the bulb in main projector at same time, need to pick up more bulbs.

I am caring for 2 handicapped parents (one permanently and other recovering from latest operation) and my 2 sons, as a single parent. Life has gotten so busy latley there is no time to think. Have not advance any projects in almost a week. I apologise for not being very dependable with the photos and such. I have to continually adjust my priorities to suit the needs of others and it makes things difficult. Especially when evry little thing that can go wrong is (I think Murphy might have been a distant relative of mine, ha, ha).

Back ASAP.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 06, 2002.

hey MMJ, www.surplusshed.com had the delta 20 lens brand new for a whopping ten bucks last I looked. also had a fujinon rear proj lens for fifteen bucks that's a slightly larger diameter. similar stats on both aside from the lens diameter. troy

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Mike, I was planning on replacing everything except for the optics and maybe the case. Well, the case depends on the light source of course. Thanks for the heads up about the electrical system. I wasn't sure if there would be a problem since the old bulb got quite hot and pulled ~ 360 Watt. I'm using a Sharp QA- 1650, but keep wondering about using the PS1 or GameCube LCDs. The panel works good, but I would really like to use an actual projector lens, like the deltas.

Matt, sounds like you made a nice system. I think that a true 60,000 lumen lamp would be overkill for me. The 175 watt HID with the built in reflector seems like a good idea, since it will probably be a bit cooler and more energy efficient than the higher wattage HIDs. I think I want the directed like source as well. The bulb setup is just a bit pricey, particularly when you throw in a ballast and a housing. It may be cheaper to just get a 400 watt HID flood. Did you mean that you will be charging $200 to $300 (USD?)?

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), March 05, 2002.

hey all. figured i'd introduce myself. i go by the handle myren, but my real name is matt. the two are pretty much interchangable, and i have this nasty tendancy to sign online documents with a complete lack of continuity. either way, if its the guy who doesnt capitalize anything (dont really believe in capitalization), its probably me. :grin:

ah, i've been working on my projector since sometime this summer. it started out (like everything i do) with heavy research. i started buying components november and they all arrived almost in time for winter break. put it all together and had a good time.

the first projector was really simple. Old Bell and Howell with a DYS/DVS/BHC bulb in it. 17000 lumens initial, shitty assed bulb life, 575 watts, 3000K. decent optics, needed some shims to put everything back in aligment. the projector puts out something like 7000 lumens though (i think), aint that bad. cant complain too biterly.

bought a viewsonic vg150 ($$$ = ouch), ripped the sucker apart, threw it down on top. right away, before even bothering to start it up, i started installing various cooling aparati, including a very nice very quiet high output blower fan which blasts a constant current between the 3/4 inch gap (two lego bricks in height, to be perfectly exact) projection plate and the panel itself. jigsawed in some 120 mm holes onto the projector side, put in two new fans (aluminum 120mm super quiet panaflos) and disconnected the old one and plugged the vent. that was about it for the first version.

i upgraded the light source. now using a longer life 23,000 lumen bulb. and i played around with the optics some to catch more of the light. i've got enough light going through my panel to let me play Grand Theft Auto 3 and Gran Turismo 3 on a 11 foot by 7 foot screen (16:9 all the way). By screen i mean two sheets painted extra-matte extra-super-white acrylic paint. better than a wall, but thats about it. i'd kill for a real screen. anyone know where i can order micro- glass beads?

the results are really awsome. so i kept rolling with the idea.

as anyone who knows me will testify, i'm a bit of a research junkie. give me something of interest and i'll research it from here to next year. three months after the fact and i'm still doing research. next version should be HDTV 1080p with 4000 - 5000 lumens. autofocus with powerzoom. i might start building them and selling them for between $20,000 and $30,000, which isnt that bad compared to the $100,000 price tag on most units of this power. once i get down the prototype, making more shouldnt be that hard. and spreading the vision just sounds like a good time. 1080p. over 4000 lumens. too good not to share.

and mmj: the integrated reflector means that the beam it does give out is very bright, so yes, it is 60,000 lumens, where there is a beam. if you want a real 60,000 lumens, there are 500 watt HID metal halides that'll give it to you, if you look hard enough.

-- Matt Fowle (thefowle@wam.umd.edu), March 05, 2002.

ON FREE STUFF, Tim and Richard have been first respondants. What is left is the computor monitor with wierd inputs (looks like VGA but has 2 rows, the guys at Circuit City had no idea and I haven't found it yet myself). There will be more and I will put together a list of up to 5 people responding to my first offer to get first dibs on the new stuff.

I just got a 7'X 7' glass bead impregnated movie screen so if there are any more screens coming they will be up for grabs too.

Please understand I am still figuring out how to send this stuff out with-out incurring costs to myself. I am checking into mailing COD, and have a back-up plann.

By the way Tim, I forgot to include general specs for you on your LCD panel in my e-mail.

Problem (no picture, sound works) I don't know if I overheated it or shorted something.

It has RCA video in and VGA port, 640X480, I believe it is by Sharp. I'll get you some more info soon (don't have it here w/ me right now)

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 01, 2002.

Thanks for the update Tim.

Hey MMJ, I have not experimented with metal halide at all, but will be very interested in your results. Just wanted to point out that you will most likely be replacing the bulb and the socket. One safety concern to be very careful about is that if you use the old wiring, make sure it is rated high enough for the new draw of wattage or it'll burn up on you. If there is a transformer in the OHP it is most likely stepping down the voltage. I have planned on some OHP mods myself, but I will be replacing the entire electrical appliance and utilising only the box and optics from the OHP.

Just a thought, Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), March 01, 2002.

I've been been reading the board for about two months and have decided to try to build. Has anyone actually tried to use a metal halide lamp? I read through some of the sites posted and it seems that some people have had limited experimentation, but I didn't find anything definitive.

Are they as hot as Halogen? I was thinking about replacing the projector bulb in a weak OHP with a metal halide lamp, or building a separate housing using the optics of the old OHP and the new metal halide. In particular, I was looking at some of the spot lights listed at : http://www.bulbs.com/products/product.asp?page=products& class=647

They have a 175 watt that is 60, 000 lumens??? Typo? It's overkill, but it is still interesting. I'm just curious if people have actually tried the metal halide or not.

Thanks for any information.

-mmj

-- mmj (mmj@neogenite.com), February 28, 2002.

Mike Im still here. Mostly busy on other projects right now. Abandoned the rear projection idea after building the RP Box. Although it had a terriffic picture. Just not big enough. Have also abandoned the LOA lighting source for my front projection. The LOA was washing out the picture due to it being such a large source. As discussed in the DIY forum (posted by MuzzMan)the raytracing of such a large source of light shows that it will cause individual pixels to be projected on to the screen at slightly different angles this results in a very washed out picture So I am now in search of the ultimate OHP. Used of course and very cheap.

Thanks all !!! Lets keep at it. We are almost there. Tim

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), February 28, 2002.

Chance? Graham? Tim?

Everything alright?

Where'd evrybody go?

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 28, 2002.

Hello again, Anybody ever worked with an OHP that sends the light from the lense head down (like an opaque OHP) thru a fresnal to the mirror directly on other side of fresnel. Its kind of Odd but I understand why they did it this way for portability. I am going to test my LCDP on it and see how it goes.

Any info will be appreciated.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 28, 2002.

Hey evrybody, Ok AV department dumped first load on me. One Item is a very portable OHP which I want to test with my projector.

Give away; I will have 1 fresnal defusser (aprx. 12"x12"), 1 OLD OHP lense head and arm w/ lense and good mirror intact, 1 LCD panel (not working) which might be repairable I just don't know where to begin with troubleshooting it. 1 computor monitor (13" color wierd input). Above items first come first serve, you pay shipping. There will be more stuff coming soon.

There were also some items I didn't take initially (no use at moment and my salvage pile is already touching the cieling). If you contact me right away there are 2 VHS linear video editing decks which may or may not be working. (I bknow there are some great motors in there and magnets etc....)

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 28, 2002.

Hello all, Success, well sort of. Got the right adapter now and when I finally got video on screen I realised the the entire unit was built upside down. I tore it apart and rebuilt the stage section for the correct configuration. I now have it up and working, the picture is great, even though I have light bleading out all over the place. I am finishing the masking and will take new set of pictures. Hopefully I can pull this off soon. Stress is doubled at home for next 2 months and work is just entering the busiest 2 months we face here. So I will probably be posting less often and more brief for a while. I know I have an obligation to you guys though, to get the pictures up so I am trying to make it as high a priority as possible this weekend.

PS. when I reconfigured I left enough space under the panel for the fan but I think I may get away with out it. I am trying to monitor heat build up under the screen.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 28, 2002.

Hi everyone, I haven't posted here before, I have been regularly posting on the DIYAudio projector forum however. I have put together a working setup using a 5" ps1 LCD, IR filter and lens from a slide projector, 8500 lumen 24V 250W quartz iodide globe and a fresnel lens from an overhead projector. I have had a lot of success, and have a quite watchable picture at any size up to 100" or so, though I still need to improve the contrast ratio when watching indoor darker scenes. Anyway, anyone who is interested in the setup, I have posted some pics at http://www.free2air.com.au/~mjcox and there is a lot of discussion on the diyaudio forum. Good to see so many people keen on this project!

-- MuzMan (mjcox@mbox.com.au), February 27, 2002.

Definitely interested in hearing about any extra loot you manage to put your hands on, Mike. Did some thrift store hunting today, no success, at least pertaining to this project. Spent a few hours experimenting tonight (thus far), learned a couple of things, had a couple of fresh thoughts - was projecting onto a white shower curtain hanging across some kitchen cabinets, and I noticed that the portion that missed the curtain, went down the hall and reflected off of my DRYER was far brighter, though it was traveling a good 8 ft. further. Sheet metal painted appliance white? May have to try it.

The slide proj I mentioned before puts out plenty of light (and dust), but doesn't cover the entire LCD screen, see a circle with wonderful brightness, much darker around it. Suddenly saw my ongoing brain fart. The slide proj bulb has a reflector behind, and the collimation (?) lens and then the other lenses. Never played with one before, same goes for overheads, hadn't occurred to me I'm dealing with a focal point here. Took my TV lens off my box and verified that my problem with the 'circle of light' is totally a focal problem. So I need the LCD sandwiched between the slide proj lens and the TV lens, both of which have fairly short focal points. Good fan on the slide, wouldn't get over the LCD's 95 degree top end, (I don't think)- but i'd rather not. Going to dismantle the slide proj, take it's magnifying apparatus and try using it with cool fluorescents, will post how that works.

Hey Mike, did check out 'What Were You Thinking?' board, you come up with some intriguing stuff! Will have to re-read, overwhelming reading the board start to finish at once!

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), February 23, 2002.

Thanks for the info "StavangerZcotty", will come in very handy with a whole lot of projects I'm working on. I hope my stuff isn't really as silly as all that or as confusing.

Thanks Troy you have saved me quite a few steps in the planning of my light source. I picked up the right video adapter last night and I'll hopefully be hookin things up tonight for full testing on the OHP. By the By I scavange everything from thift stores and such, and built a light box recently out of these "vanity mirror" things you can get real cheap. Most have 2 flaurescents and a transformer, and some have color filters. Plus you get a decent mirror and a magnifying mirror with each set. They are a little large for the purpose, but with out the heat factor I think I can make 2 or 3 of these work.

Ok every body, keep your fingers crossed. I just found out the A/V unit in the hospital I work at is getting rid of a bunch of equiptment soon. I've got first dibs, but things happen slow around here. I plan to get whatever I can fit in my jeep. Whatever is not needed for my projects will be up for grabs to you guys. All I expect is that you will pay for any shipping costs. We are talking old OHPs, slide projectors, screens, and other A/V stuff. Lenses, mirrors, lights, etc... I expect this will happen within the month.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 22, 2002.

http://www.thistothat.com/

-- StavangerZcotty (upyourazz@yahoo.com), February 21, 2002.

Hvor er nærmeste Vinmonopol? Min tykke tante vil kjøpe noen flasker vin. haaaaaa Mike, man sier at han er gal. Er det noe øl her have 3m 9700 mike make think crazy rat fall down brain bulb on fire down time bright light some times

-- StavangerZcotty today I think (upyourazz@yahoo.com), February 21, 2002.

Hi Mike, the idea was to remove the backlight from the laptop and use it intact as it was in the laptop (snapped into the plastic thing with the white reflective panel attached) - but have it directly behind the LCD. It worked but not as well as I'm looking for. Have now also tried both my halogen lamp and a slide projector stripped down. Halogen didn't get diffused enough, could still see the bulb on the wall, and very little of the picture. Slide proj is much better, not optimal but not bad when aimed right. It's an ancient one someone dug up and gave me over the weekend, and it could double as a space heater, though the fans keep it all coming out the top vent, it's room temp 2 inches in front of the bulb. I'm trying whatever I can get my hands on, just to get some perspective on how the different kinds of light compare to each other. My hypothesis right now is that the ultimate light (both bright and highly portable) is going to be fluorescent - very similar to stock, except either slightly larger bulbs or several rows of them. Learned that there are both warm and cool fluorescents, and most you'll find are labelled warm. To have them right at the LCD have to use the cool ones. Cool ones either just say cool or CCFL, warm usually say warm white. From what I've seen, the cool ones glow very blue when they're on. So far I've yet to find any under counter lights or worklights that use the cool ones, and I've only found one store that sells any cool ones at all, and they didn't carry any fixtures for them. What I'm looking to build right now is a panel of fluorescents, spaced evenly either horizontally or vertically, maybe 8" bulbs every two inches to start, do some experimenting. With the cool bulbs you eliminate the fan factor, which I like, and increases the potential compactness of the overall unit big time, which I really like. Will let you know more as I trudge onward =)

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), February 20, 2002.

Hey Troy, I'm trying to picture what you mean about your new backlight set-up and am confused could you elaborate a little. I am very interested because we have built with the same LCDs and you are ahead of me. I'm sure I'm going to be trying to tackle the light problems soon, as I get the right video adapter. I have built as a panel so as to use on an OHP but intend to continue to evolve the unit as I go. So I will probably move on to building custom light source with the aim of portability and quality.

Thanks ahead of time. Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 20, 2002.

Hey Mike, using the 5" Sony PS1 monitor. Did not try reversing the LCD to it's original direction, but now I don't think it's necessary. Am using a fresnel between the light box and proj box, though I suspect to maximize the impact I'd need to lengthen the light box to around the focal point of the fresnel. Found that my 2800 lumen fluorescent passes through the LCD about the same as a 75 watt/1100 lumen incandescent. So I pondered the odds of destroying my LCD with my 600 watt halogen lamp for a bit and then decided to try something else. Plugged the stock backlight back in, leaving out the diffusers so my other light could pass. Lights up the edges as well as it did "stock". Produces a far more blue light than my fluorescent, suspect mine is using a cheaper ballast that isn't color- balanced. Browsed howstuffworks.com for a bit, and they have a picture of a laptop backlight, and it's identical to our little one, only longer. Gets diffused by the white backing and so on. I have a dead pseudo-laptop Vornada with a cracked LCD, but the backlight appears to work, so it's coming apart tonight to see if it's possible to utilize it to increase the brightness. Will check out the other board when I get a chance, and I'm nowhere near an expert on magnetism/energy/physics, but I'm always interested in learning how things work and will look forward to checking out your work.

ANYONE who thinks this idea is great but isn't familiar with the concepts or worries about the right/best way of doing things, read all of the posts here, take notes, 'cause you'll forget something you want to remember!, also check out howstuffworks.com and read what they have to say on projection TV, as well as movie screens. A light, a picture, a lens, and build it how you want it!

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), February 16, 2002.

Hey Troy, Welcome aboard, thanks for the info, thanks for the compliment.

I wonder have you tried turning your LCD around to project the image backwards and is it brighter when projected in that direction? Are you using a diffuser before the LCD and after the light? If so is it simply a semi-opaque white glass or some sort of Fresnel positioned to cause an interference pattern? I believe the latter would allow better light. I also know that there is a polarizing sheet in the "sandwich" of the LCD, this is why I'm asking about brightness in the reverse set-up.

It occurs to me that a florescent (cool) light source resides mostly in the blue of the spectrum while an incandescent (hot) light source resides mostly in the red of the spectrum. Could the problem be a color filter in the "sandwich" of the LCD? If so the solution would seem to be either to use the brightest available florescent "back light" or to some how force the incandescent source into the blue of the spectrum before passing through the LCD or to find the color filter in the "sandwich" and remove it (I suspect this would be tedious, could damage the LCD beyond repair, and the color filter may be part of the same sheet as the polarized sheet). If this is what's going on then we can also expect that this problem would not manifest itself consistently from LCD to LCD (of different makes). What LCD are you using Troy, sorry if you already posted that, I wish I could easily see last posts while posting, as my short term memory is bad in general but especially when I'm loaded with such interesting projects (sort of an absent minded pseudo professor syndrome).

Hey Troy let me invite you to check out the "What Were You Thinking" Board.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=007Les

Check out my latest stuff on magnetism, I have started w/ the premise of an entirely new theory of the true relationships of magnetic particles at molecular level interactions vs. field system interactions. I really think I've got something incredibly important evolving here, are you into magnetics or physics or free energy?

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 15, 2002.

Been reading the board for a bit after migrating from the 100inch project and suddenly realized how rude it is for me to gleam ideas, answers, and suggestions, without throwing in my two bits.

Mike, you're correct on the stereo-mini to dual RCA's for the Sony 5" PS1 mon. To the man looking for lens options, check out surplusshed.com. Another person at some point mentioned the Delta 20 lens they offer (he was happy with it as I recall), and I purchased the Fujinon lens. I chose it over the Delta because the lens is a little larger and thus will pass more light. Very short focal length, so it has to be very close to the LCD, but produces a very sharp picture. Worth the price just to play with. Only downside in using with the Sony PS1 mon is that since the lens is actually for rear projection, the image is backwards for front proj. Which brings up a question I don't know the answer to: is there any difference at all in direction on an LCD? I'm shooting around 3000 lumens through the Sony LCD backwards (to correct the image) and getting a far less bright picture than I had with the stock backlight. Took out the two thin tinted sheets that I assume helped diffuse the light, left in the thicker glass piece with the white dots on it, haven't tried it without it. Flipped the LCD and put back in the white plastic casing for support. After looking at the stock backlight, which actually was tubed around the LCD and diffused, I think that the results Mr. Tran posted back in the day were simply from the stock backlight. His other lights seemed to be in front of the LCD shining down and probably didn't do much, but in my experience the stock backlight produces a very crisp picture that is very watchable with animation and lighter colored movies. And now I've run on, apologies. Anyone else out there working on this thing and not posting, throw your ideas/experiences out, Mike/Chance/Graham/Tim - all the guys who keep this board moving have earned our input many times over.

-- troy (the_keen_one@hotmail.com), February 14, 2002.

Hey Jack, Your image size @ a given distance, depends on; chosen optic set-up & size of original (LCD Screen dimensions). You decide which comes first, the chicken or the egg.

There are some images posted at the yahoo site, URL located on this board.

There is a break down of LCD dimensions vs. resolution w/ estimated prices back a ways, on this board.

And I think Graham can probably point you to a site for optics.

There is also a breakdown of the general construction process on this board.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 14, 2002.

I'm wondering how far away you must have the projector to have a 100 inch screen and if it could be mounted low or high to keep it out of line of sight? Also, is there a website that I could go to for a better break down like a parts list and maybe even screen shots. Thanx!

-- Jack (foof132@yahoo.com), February 13, 2002.

Hey all, I tried to post a couple days ago and guess it didn't take.

Oh well, got projector all together (Sony PS1 PortMon based) its ugly because of the awkward mounting of the board. I think I will also have a small un avoidable curve shadow edge at tjhe top or bottom of my image. I have not gotten an image on screen yet, cause I have the wrong adapter. I used a mono-mini to single RCA, and suspect that the port is actually A/V so I will use a stereo mini to 2 RCAs and should solve problem. Light is good from what I can tell (on OHP), I can see the volume bar on screen when adjusted (very sharp). And w/ out the mask in place was able to tell that my image size at 20' projection will be close to 70" diagonal.

I will post pictures as soon as I can get some images up.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 13, 2002.

I purchased a gamecube portable monitor (Intec) and used it to play Silent Hill2 on my XBOX. Pic was nice for a small screen (5") but I can tell it was not more than 320x238. But, hey, it's a nice start.

I tore the unit up, and it was very easy to remove the backlight equipment. I'm gonna try using a Halogen reflecting bulb (50w, 500 lumens) for my initial tests.

I noticed that if I put a light behind the screen, I could see the details of the light projected on the wall (I saw an image of the light bulb,etc). So I figure I need a white filter (which will raise the power requirements of the bulb) or to reflect the light off of a dull high brightness piece of wood. (This will reflect the light without reflecting the image of the bulb).

Also, I noticed that the image was still fuzzy. The fresnel lens is now going to find it's home BEHIND the LCD screen so that at least the screen gets evenly lit. (Just like a transparency projector). I'm gonna use a glass lens in front of the screen. This should give me a sharp image.

Anybody have any lens suggestions?

Thanks, Ruben

-- Me (junkmail666@lycos.com), February 11, 2002.

Mike, You are right in that FS mirrors are very delicate. I have been handeling them for many years in building and using of astronomical telescopes.They are extremely delicate and if anyone is going to use a FS or HOT or COLD mirror in their projector it should be in an enviromentaly safe enclosure, I guess what I mean is the working surface(s) should be protected from any accumulation of dust and smoke (ciggs). You should never allow any type of cleaner ie; furniture polish or glass cleaner to get on the coated or aluminized surface. The mirrors can be cleaned by using mild soap and warm water along with a lent free cloth. Never touch the mirrored or coated surface with your fingers or hands or anything for that matter. As for the type of mirror I am using it is a large 30" X 23" FS for the purpose of folding the optics to reducing the depth of the box from roughly 56" to roughly 24". The system I have has no considerable heat build-up so there is no need for hot or cold mirrors in my application.

A brief description of my set-up; The LOA is 6" below the LCD panel, there is a fresnel lens from an old OHP about 6" above (in front) of the lcd panel the image will then be reflected by the FS mirror that is 2' above the OHP fresnel at a 45' angle and on to the 60" high gain rear projection screen. This set up has been prototyped and proven to work. Let me state it here one mor time IMHO, I THINK THAT A HIGH GAIN SCREEN, BE IT FRONT OR REAR PROJECTION, IS THE KEY TO THIS WHOLE PROJECT.

I did not get a chance to work on this project this past weekend, but I am going to try to get it set up again and get some pictures of the whole thing, screen shots and all. I have gone on long enough here for now. Thanks again Mike, and all the rest of you DIY'ers

Tim

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), February 05, 2002.

Hey Tim, if this is obvious to you just ignore it, but you may inspire others to work with first surface mirrors, so I just wanted to point out a couple things.

A 1st surface mirror is more delicate to work with, the silvering comes off very easily. The benefits of first surface mirrors are that the light does not have to pass first through a layer of glass, and so the image remains more pure.

On the subject of mirrors, there are a few others to consider as well. There are Hot mirrors and Cold mirrors. Be careful to use the right one if you go this way. One lets all the heat through reflecting the light and the other lets all the light through reflecting the heat. used in different ways these can give you control over the heat in your system. Sorry I can never keep streight which is which.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), February 05, 2002.

copy of My latest DIY Post.

Rear Projection Folded Optics

I have found a front surface mirror at a local glass shop. It is 22" X 32" for $35.00 not to bad a price. This should be big enough to fold the optics in HALF giving me a 60" rear projection TV that is no more than 2 feet deep.

The rear projection screen I have is 48X36, it is what they call black strip screen, meaning it has black stripes between the vertical lenticular lines(lenses) on the front surface of the screen. This is to abnsorb the ambient light within the viewing room. It also enhances the dark contrast. Has anyone been able to use a high gain front projection screen?

IMHO I think that a high gain screen is the key to the whole system. This is apparent in the fact that I am only useing 1 LOA light, 6 inches behind the lcd screen. The screen eliminates all the hot spots. And drastically improves the the dark contrast

thanks

__________________ Digerati

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), February 01, 2002.

Hi all... I've been lurking about - I've not gone anywhere! I've been stirring things over at the DIYaudio.com board.

Mike, jeez mate... sorry to hear about the back. Hope it doesn't give you too much stick.

Will post soon when I've got some pictures to share..

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), February 01, 2002.

m langway need more info

how did your 100inch tv succeeed??

-- neo (amyandkurt@hotmail.com), January 31, 2002.

Hey all, I'm still alive. Having terrible back problems. Diagnosed with Sciaticka (probably spelled wrong). So been missing work, web access is at work. I'm just here today to catch up loose ends, so I won't be back on the boards regularly for about another week.

Hope to have pictures to post, should have;

2 versions of 100" TV

New LCD Projector (droped my remote control in water, now whole system is impossable to control as it was controling 6 appliances and an X-10 home automation system. I'm drying it out without the batteries in to try to see if it will work again. May have to purchase another, and program it again)

Picture of my 1st working Permanent Magnet Motor (Will be doing final assembly this weekend, most parts ready, little more epoxy, and some more dry time)

Thanks for your concern, keep up the good work, and I'll try to catch up on posts, haven't read any today, gotta get.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 31, 2002.

What happened to Mike, Graham? YooHoo...need you guys back here. Great work Tim, looking forward to your pics.

-- T. (anklecast@hotmail.com), January 30, 2002.

I should clear up something about the screen size it is actually 48" X 36" (60" diagonal) it is from a rear projection tv. It is a high gain and I am sorry I but don't know the gain value of it.

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), January 30, 2002.

Copy of my most recent post to the DiyAudio forum:

Rear Projection !!!!!

Well I rigged it all together in the den lastnight and guess what I now have a 48" rear projection TV with a excellent no exceptional no great no what's the word I am looking for? Oh Yeah! FANTASTIC picture. Very bright and sharp in in the den with the 60 watt ceiling light on. This screen is an improvement beyond all my expectations. I did not really think a high gain rear projection screen would made such an improvement. If someone can get a hold of a high gain front projection screen I think this will also make dramatic improvements in contrast and brightness. These units being very expensive is a major problem for most of us I am sure. The good ones at 4 feet or larger are in the thousands of dollars. My rear projection screen has a few blemishes on the smooth side but are completely unseen in the projected image. I got it from a place that refurbishes projection tv's of all make and models and sizes because of the blimishes they were going to throw it out. So check out these places in your area.

I have one problem to solve though. The focal length is about 6 feet so I am going to build a cabinet with a mirror to fold the optics. This should allow for a reasonable sized projector.

Sorry for not posting any new pics on my site of the screen and image, I just threw it all together in the den last night. I will however get some pics of the setup and the screen and post them hopefully this weekend. At bstv.timlewellyn.com

I am continuing to improve on this as we all find better ways to do what needs to be done. I think I am going to stick with the 48" screen for now, weather I'll be happy after it is all put together and set up in my den/theater, I don't know, if not we'll have to try something else.

More to come!

__________________ Digerati

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), January 30, 2002.

Copy of my latest post to the diy audio forum:

Hello all! Hey! I just got finished with some more scrounging for parts for my sons science project and have come accross a high gain screen for rear projection tv in excellent condition I have seen these on surplus sites for around $350.00 I got this for nothing. I am going to try to do a rear projection set up this time around. This screen has a fresnel lens (projector side) and a linticular lens on the (viewing side) this should increase brightness as well as contrast.

Will be posting all results as soon as possible.

__________________ Digerati

-- tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), January 28, 2002.

F4, Will do... but at the moment I havn't got enough hands! I plan to take screenshots of well known shots from movies (especially the Matrix :-D ) and post them up to my website with their captions.... you know what I mean.... "Dodge this!"

...no? Man I've watched that film too many times.

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), January 25, 2002.

Hello everyone. Great board! I've been following the progress made on the project from the diyaudio.com forum for a while now, and I'm still in the research stages of my own projector.

Graham,

Could you post some pictures of the image produced by your projector once you have it set up? I'm curious to know what we can expect from the 2.5" LCD's.

Thanks for all the great info, and congrats on the progress everyone has made.

-f4

-- fender4 (deelystan@hotmail.com), January 25, 2002.

I'm still here!

..Just a bit sidetracked. My car's been pi$$ing me off with cold (or should I say 'wet')-start problems, and with installing the alpine screen in the fascia and messing with the motherboard for my Mp3 player I've been elsewhere! Why didn't Toyota think to design a way for rain to run away from the engine when they designed the MR2, not straight in and all over the dizzy and leads! Anyway, installed a new dizzy cap and she's running like a dream now.... but still not starting like one :-(

Anyway THE PROJECTOR....! Yep... getting there... My 2.5" screen and Delta 20 lens are all here and working OK... I've decided not to try sourcing a LOA fluorescent here in the UK as (apart from it being impossible!) they seem to be hated in US stores. Instead I've bought 3x20watt (equivalent to 100w each) compact fluorescent bulbs from the local DIY place. I've tested this setup so far with one of them, and all I can say is 'mmmmmmmm.... coool....'. The image on my wall was very clear with good contrast + brightness. (even using my wish-I-had- three-hands-to-hold-all-these-bits rig :-D )

I need to pop to the shops again and collect some twin & earth cable to rig all the lamps up (better safe than sorry!) but I'm thinking that my projector shouldn't be any bigger -including the lens- than a shoebox... perhaps a fair bit shorter.

SCREEN?

What screen material should I try using? I know there are loads of different materials professionally available for custom installations... all varying in brightness and contrast. I'm looking for something that will give good contrast in ambient light conditions and possibly go some way to blurring the visible pixels together. Don't want much, huh? :-) Seriously though, there are some screens that look grey and pitted (like duct tape) which are said to be very good for ambient light and give the impression of higher contrast levels.

If anyone has any suggestions of how much these screens cost, or other less pricy alternatives then I'll have to look into them. I'll probably go for a 50-55 inch screen, don't want to push the boundaries of what my little LCD panel is capable of!

Laters all..

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), January 25, 2002.

I kinda wondered the same thing...

-- Doug (wwalls@tampabay.rr.com), January 25, 2002.

Where has everyone gone! why is this board is moving along so slow?

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), January 25, 2002.

Hey guys... HERE IS THE LCD PROJECTOR I VE MADE!!!!!!!

http://www.remotecentral.com/cedia01/photo011.htm

I WISH!!!

-- Julian (microfilm@terra.com), January 22, 2002.

sorry if this is a repeat..

but here is a link to an auction for one of the key elements to this DIY project if you dont wanna screw around with the 2-5 inch lcds..

http://cgi.ebay.ca/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1693740419

best regards

-- Darryl P. (darrylpp@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1693740419

Here is a link to the projector panel most of the guys are using for sale on ebay..

-- Darryl P. (darrylpp@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

Tim, I understood your intentions, just wanted to be sure newcomers and people who are still only reading and not yet experimenting understood. It is important that we keep things straight, as a number of individuals think this is still an "idea".

Just want to be sure people understand that this does work, and the only limitations as far as light source and resolution are entirely up to the builder. This concept is proven, and you can make it what you want it to be. Just pick an appropriate light source for your needs, an appropriate lens configuration for your needs, and an appropriate LCD for your needs.

Also it is worth mentioning again, this works on LCD's not just Video LCD's, what you make is also up to you.

Potential projects requiring no further research include: Projection; Clock (clock based or watch based), caller ID, graphing calculator (for math & economics presentations), or Visual impairment aids such as; E-Book reader projector, kitchen timer projection, web appliance projection, or artistic products such as; a programmable light stencil for xenon strobe or other light source, use an infrared light source and project images only able to be seen by those w/ night-vision goggles etc.........

I did not take any offense to your entry or anything, just want to try to keep people on the same page. People have a tendency to talk about this thing as if there were some possibility that it would not work.

And as Tim Says "WE NOW KNOW IT DOES" and your imagination is the only limiting factor.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 17, 2002.

Mike and Chance,,,,and all the rest. I wish to clear up something that I think was misunderstood in my previous post.

I am not trying to dicourage anyone from continuing with this project, on the CONTRARY, I now KNOW it IS POSSIBLE to do.

As I said, it could use improvement in the brightness, but my test was to see for myself if it could be done. I am now convinced it can. In my set up there was poor alignment of the light and optics as well as poor optical quality fresnels( scratches and blemishes)there was also considerable light loss within the box and into the room. However, "It was watchable" The following are some of the things I intend to do to improve on this first prototype; 1. Aquire a Better set of fresnel lens (glass maybe). 2. Modify the lighting source mount and possibly(overdrive it). 3. Get rid of the hot spots in the light ( some type of diffuser). 4. Better alignment of the Optics, Light and LCD panel. 5. A better projection screen (commercial type, maybe).

Well there are alot of tweeks to be made, as you can see.

The reason i did it in such a hurry was to see if it was actually doable AND I NOW KNOW IT IS. Keep up the good work, do not get discouraged, because together we can do this..

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), January 17, 2002.

I'm glad everything is coming together for you Tim. You guys are really getting this thing under control. Keep the posts coming. Yes MIke, I have come to the same conclusion on the brightness issue. For most people the light that Tim is using would be perfectly fine. Remember people....the darker the room the brighter the projected image will be.

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), January 16, 2002.

ATTENTION ALL EXPERIMENTORS!

Do not be discouraged by any references to dimmness on this page!

It should be understood that 1. this is a subjective opinion and 2. the brightness factor is on a unit specific basis.

This works and well!

Newcomers understand that we are tweaking and seeking cooler light sources for portability.

It is buildable right now! and anyone who's been here a while can help you!

Keep up the good work gang!!! Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 16, 2002.

copy of my post to the DIYAUDIO LCD Projector forum IT DOES WORK !!!!!!!!!

Well I fanally got to the prototype stage. I started building yeterday afternoon (with cardboard)What else. After about 15 minutes I had a 72 inch screen projected on the garage door.

Granted the picture was not as bright as I had hoped but the picture was very clear, but only after I switched from my VCR as a video source to the new APEX DVD player my wife got me for Xmas. A huge improvement in projected video image.

The following is what I did;;;;;

I used my proxima 820c LCD panel (640x480) resolution with my DVD player as a video source. I mounted the LCD Panel in a cardboard box I then placed an old overhead projector fresnel lens (very rough and scratched) against the front side of the Panel. I then mounted the LOA Fluorex lamp directly behind the panel( after removing it from the stand) I then took the 8.5x11 page magnifier and mounted it to the old LOA worklight stand so I could move it easly for focusing. I cut a hole in the fron side of the box roughly the same size as the LCD panel turned on the Fluorex lamp got the square image from the box positioned on the garagedoor a moved the Page Magnifier until the became focused.

AND THERE IT WAS """"MATRIX"""" ON THE GARAGEDOOR 72" screen for under $ lets see. LCD Panel $99.00 (ebay) Page Magnifer $6.00 (office depot) Old OHP part $0.00 (recycling center)

Total cost $105.00

Granted it could use some improvement in the brightness, but I am now convinced it can be achieved. I will try to aquire a Better fresnel lens (glass maybe). And also to modify the lighting source (overdrive it).

Well there are alot of tweeks in there that could be put to use such as Better alignment of the optics (center to center on the lenses) as well as squareing the whole thing up. I have learned from years of ameature astronomy and telescope making that the alignment of the optics is very crucial in geting a image to the eyepiece that is in perfect focus. The reason i did it in such a hurry was to see if it was actually doable

AND I NOW KNOW IT IS. Keep up the good work, together we can do this..

TIM

__________________ Digerati

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), January 16, 2002.

Hey Rich, The first one I tried was rectangular 4" by "interplay" I believe. It did not work because of problems with the way the driver board was attached. I now have the 5" oval shaped unit by Sony; this is the one we have assumed brought Laut Tran his success. A few warnings; Touch ground on the unit before beginning work (this is to eliminate any static charge you may be carrying), Be patient and delicate, Be especially careful when removing the back light (undo ALL the clips), my unit is totally removed from its case and it will be necessary to mount the driver board askew to the stage.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 16, 2002.

Sorry about the wierd signature, "mayberry". It is a personal joke, an old freind and I used to refer to the town we grew up in as mayberry, I sign that way when writing him, and had just done so.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 16, 2002.

Hey Doug, AWESOME!!!

Love the direction your taking the project in. Great to see someone able to take such a leadership role. Very impressive renderings. Since your obviously working with a good 3D program that probably includes animation capabilities. I'd like to propose a challenge. How about putting lights that simulate the strength, color temp, and intensity & beam angle of your lights and doing another ray tracing showing the growth of the beam through simulated lenses. If you can accomplish that, how about putting a semi-transparent appropriately sized running video clip where the LCD goes and rendering an animation which shows the beam path and the final image size at different distances. I know this sounds like a lot, but if you're into 3D modeling and animation as much as I was when I had the opportunity to do it at work, I think you'll probably quite enjoy the project. I used to use Strata Studio Pro Blitz, and worked a bit with the beta and first versions of Bryce.

I hope to have pictures soon. My lab has been a mess but is finally starting to shape up. In a small space organization is important (when I say lab it is just easier than saying Lab/Studio/Living Room/Bedroom, I live for the most part in a 20' by 20' space with no windows.

Keep up the great work!

Mike

-- mayberry (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 16, 2002.

Thank you so much Doug. Great pics. Looks like you are taking the project very seriously. I hope your results are exceptional. Please keep us all informed. I challenge the readers/posters here to post photos of their projectors in progress, even if they are not up to the quality shown in the pics that Doug has on his web sight. I'm not asking for pictures of completed projectors, I'm asking for a visual image of your work in progress. I think we will all benefit from them. Seeing Dougs web pics was great. I think people will be more excited about getting involved once they see some photos. And for those already involved, a little friendly competition may spark a new passion for completion. Start your engines.

CHANCE

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), January 16, 2002.

I don't have results posted, but I do have some pics of my first prototype at my website. I should be finished with the new prototype next week and be able to post pics of it right after it works. http://home.tampabay.rr.com/wwalls/lcd.htm

-- Doug (wwalls@tampabay.rr.com), January 15, 2002.

I have a question .I have been reading all of the ideas here and i was wondering does anybody here actually have pictures of the lcd projector in action? If so do you also have plans for the projector? I have yet to find anybody with the plans or pictures ? Although Im not stupid a picture is worth a thousand words . One more ? I have a 15 lcd monitor 1024x768 resolution will this work with this project ? Yall were also talking about overheating because of the high heat the bulbs produce. How do the marketed projectors handle the heat ? I know in a rear projection tv the lenses have a clear gel on them and a cooling liquid isnside of 2 pieces of glass .If you could get your hands on that stuff it shouldnt overheat . Thanks

-- mark g (memturbo@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.

Does anyone know where to get a really cheap used 5 inch lcd screen? I want to get the 4 or 5 inch playstation monitor or something of that sort. If I get one off of Ebay, which brand of monitor isn't good, in terms of where the driver board is located. Ebay mostly has the ones made by InterAct, and I didn't want to get the brand that has the driver board in the way. Thanks for any help guys, keep up the good work!

-- Richard (ruthfmly@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.

Has anyone considered gutting a "palmtheater". You know those handheld dvd/lcd screen combos. I've seen them go for as low as $500 dollars which is much more than a screen i know. But it seems to me that it would be easy to gut the screens, since the screens are so thin...they can't have much more hardware behind them. Plus, this way you'd have a dvd player, already set up for widescreen as well...kind of an all in one solution. Just an idea...

-- Jonny O (jostojic@hotmail.com), January 14, 2002.

What up Chance, Laut Tran may have done what he said it is just that he left out some important details as to how. I am fully deconstructed and ready to begin construction, but it was a tricky operation and will require the driver board to be mounted at a funky angle on the stage. I will begin construction soon, my labs a big mess (probably cause I'd rather jump on to the next thing than clean) so I have to clear some space cleared to use. (6 or 7 lab projects going, + household DIY stuff.)

Soon, Soon, I hope

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 11, 2002.

Hey Mike, Graham, Tim, and other members of this board. Good to see you all back. I was starting to get a little unsure whether everone was going to return. The board was not active at all near the end of last year. Not one post from the 26th of December until the 30th. I thought someone would have gotten parts for xmas. Graham glad to hear you are getting close. Are you planning to use fans? My projector has a built in fan or two, but it is still very quiet. I don't even notice the fan is on until I turn the unit off. Mike, did Laut Tran screw you up with his post, or are you making progress? Well, gotta go watch Score with Deniro and Norton. Take care

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), January 10, 2002.

Thanks Mike, for your response on the 100 inch TV board. I have been reading these 2 boards and thanks for all the great posts ! I have just bought a overhead projector off eBay, 3M 9700 with 4300 lumens. I had a few questions on what characteristics I should look for in an LCD panel. I would like it to have video inputs (S-video or RCA) as well as VGA inputs. Also from what I am guessing by reading through the posts, the smaller the LCD panel the better the projected image. Is this correct ? Would using a LCD panel off a laptop or the Sony PS1 be a better alternative than using LCD projection panel after making the necessary adjustments ? A Laptop LCDs will typically have 1024x768 resolution while most projection panels are only 640x480, how much does the resolution matter for watching DVDs, as this will be my primary use of the projector, but may also use it for some gaming. Which would be a good LCD panel to use ? Thanks -Sandip

-- Sandip Ghosh (sghosh@email.com), January 10, 2002.

Hi all,

Sorry for not posting in a while - I've been awaiting delivery of a few toys for this project!

I now have a Marshall 2.5" TFT LCD for use with the DELTA 20 lens I have and have started doing proper tests at last!

My initial analysis of the lcd is that it is a very well made piece of kit. The driver board is separate from the LCD straight from the factory (its too big to fit on the back anyway!) and the backlight was only attached by two strips of sticky foam. Within minutes of it arriving I had Mission impossible 2 playing on my wardrobe door!

The lcd seems to lend itself very well to video (especially our needs), having both composite and s-video inputs; switchable Pal/NTSC & mirrored flipping of the image both top-bottom and left-right.

Now all that remains is to find a good light source! The fabled Flourex worklight (from Lights of America) seems to only be available in America. DOH! (Walmart and Homedepot apparently)

I am so eager to get this prototype finished that I will pay someone commission to mail me one... please :-))) any offers?

I will borrow the office digital camera and take a few snaps as the project continues and will post them up onto either the yahoo site or my own... very soon!

Take care people...!

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), January 10, 2002.

I mean.. with this panel we can get the HDTV quality (not "lcd" quality). I was drunk.

-- microfilm (microfilm@terra.com), January 09, 2002.

The REDANT 7 inch lcd screen is high-res!!! It is made with a SHARP 7 inch lcd panel of 1440 (h) x 234 (v). So maybe with this we can get the lcd quality, and the price in USA must be only 200, i guess. Here in argentina it is $320. Redant site: www.redant.com.tw

Bye

-- Microfilm (microfilm@terra.com), January 09, 2002.

Well! Hope all of you had good holidays. Now back to the project,,,,I have just aquired a fresnel and and 45 lens and mirror set from an old OHP.. Hope to get a light (fluorex) this weekend. I was looking in the DIY Audio forum (video projector)and found where some guy is overdriving flourescent tubes (for his reef aquarium) if I am not mistaken this might be doable with the fluorex work light at 8200 lumens it should be bright enough but the color is still in question.

WIll be posting more results as the holidays are now over for me. Hope we can get more successful as we go.....

-- tim lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), January 08, 2002.

Cristian, If your monitor is a backlit (TFT)LCD this board might help, if it is a CRT you want to stick with the 100" TV board. When you wrote to me I thought you were writing about the 100" TV project so my answer may not have made sense. If you are working with a TFT LCD monitor I will be happy to offer assistance.

PS the final size is adjustable here as well.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 08, 2002.

i have a 10 inches monitor and i want it to be larger iwant to make a projector anyone can help me pleez any suggstion

-- Christian (ccruz3@shaw.ca), January 04, 2002.

Hey everybody it's great to be back on the boards. Hope everyone had a great holiday. Well I got the PS1 monitor (the round 5" by sony), I have begun construction or should I say I just completed deconstruction. Well there is good news and bad news. It now appears to me that our freind Laut Tran may have put the cart before the horse and posted a plan as a result (which might also be the reason for his disapearance from the board). The driver board can be moved out of the way, however just barely. It will require being mounted on an angle to the LCD in the final panael. I am trying to determine how to do this so that it is asthetically pleasing, (or at least NOT butt ugly). Also the removal of the backlight is an extremely delicate operation on this model. I very nearly cracked the LCD trying to get the darn thing off. I am currently trying to find a circuit diagram for a voltage regulator or some such similar device (THIS IS NOT A NECESSARY STEP)I want to get the CPU Fan (a rat trap blower w/ side evacuation) to run off the same power input as the panel. The reason I want to do this is that when I get around to building a new OHP around it, I will strive for portability, I'd love to get the whole thing to run off the battery pack from the PS1 portable system (may need 2, not included with monitor). And then if all is well, I'll move to other related projects (I'm still going to go for the HIGH res too)such as; Converting a DVD player to operate off the same voltage level or at least a 12 volt input from the car (FYI most electronics products, comutors, DVD Players, Radios etc., although they run off the House voltage or MAINs, are actually DC electronics, they simply have the transformer inside) Installing a TV receiver w/ antenna, possably adding a portable cable box to it so I can just plug up wherever cable is available in my journeys, and making a portable screen. The roll of film I used for the dissassembly process was OLD and all the shots (24, overkill) came out really crappy, so I will try to retrace my steps and write up each part at least. I baught NEW film for the next stage (glad I was anxious to get photos back, or I might have used one of the other 4 rolls of OLD film).

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), January 03, 2002.

Hi David Hall, I read your post in: greenspun.com : LUSENET : LCD PROJECTOR (HOME MADE), December 20, 2001, about LCD panel controller using FPGA? Can you tell us more about it? I am going to build projector using 10" to 12" TFT LCD panel SVGA (600x800). There are many-many cheap LCD panels sell in Ebay, but mostly without controller. Is it any generic controller or each LCD has specific controller? Is it cheap? What about using LCD panel ripped out from notebook? Do you know where to find the controller, completed or kit or even build it from scratch, or do you sell it? Thanks.

-- gwidijanto (gwidijanto@hotmail.com), December 30, 2001.

I guess mike tried to teach me how to get the image but with the overhead projector estructure, I havent got any OHP!!. I will buy an lcd screen... the best possible (a friend of mine is in USA and maybe Ill buy it there, using ebay, but he is coming back soon). SO does anyone know the way to get a great projected image with the lcd screen (7 inch, wide, maybe 1024*768) and the bulbs...

I have seen a draw here... http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lcdprojector/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&. dnm=Video+Projecotr.gif&.view=t&.done=http% 3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lcdprojector/lst%3f%26.dir=/% 26.src=gr%26.view=t

I mean... does it really work? (like hdtv?). Are the bulbs in the right place? the front corners!!??? I supposed they had to be behind the lcd screen, at least. Maybe the bulbs are just light to increse the power of the image projected, I guess. If i buy great materials, beggining with the lcd screen, and a good fresnel len (the 100 inch tv one?), and a good mirror, with powerfull bulbs... I WILL REALLY GET A GREAT IMAGE LIKE HDTV???

Are u all doing this or is just an example?

Im a begginer, and I need some anwers to understand all the information posted here.

Ok, thanks u all.

-- Julian (microfilm@terra.com), December 25, 2001.

I used a off brand for my screen it was made by Team5 Accessories, my bulbs Philps halogen bulbs, it's actually a small halogen bulb inside of light bulb case, all walmarts may not sell them the one in my town doesn't, I went out of town get mine. The magnifying glass are 6x magnification it's 3 inches across. My picture isn't 100 inch it's actually somewhere are 60 to 61, because my room is small, you can add another magnifying glass but you picture will have a doubling affect and the small lense on the inside of the lense will mess up you picture and it will have to closer to the wall. I have some other plans than can make the picture bright, but you will have to take apart you screen, add a fresnel lense and use a flouescent bulb, GE sell flourescent bulb that put out 840 lumens at 15 watts (can be found at K-mart, Wal-mart and Big Lots, Big Lots are a little bigger). It works like an OHP you put the bulb at the bottom, then the fresnel lense, then screen and same magnifying lense. I this design because you get to remove the fan, it will be quiter and use less energy.

Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- ronny mccoll (remarque@carolina.net), December 25, 2001.

Ronny, what brand of the PS1 monitor was it exactly? Also what is the exact brand of Philips Lightbulbs, or can you recommend some other ones? Finally, what type of magnifying lens were they? I'm interested in this project. I'd rather not tear apart the LCD if I don't have to.

-- Dan (governor34@hotmail.com), December 24, 2001.

Thanks Mike. Could anyone draw the projector? Ive seen one in the yahoo forum, maybe everyone that have made one could explain it to us with draws. Have anyone made a hdtv one? Can u draw it please?

THANKS

-- Julian (microfilm@terra.com), December 23, 2001.

Hi all, and Merry Christmas! Sorry I've not posted in a while - work and stuff, you know the score!

Ronny, congrats on the sucessful build - and well done on using the Yahoo group though! If we have to pay for this puppy then I'll see you all there!

I've ordered all the bits and bobs I need (bar the panel - damn gamestop are a bunch of twats) The lens assembly arrived this morning and I've got the spotlight etc. Gamestop wouldn't authenticate my credit card without me faxing a copy of my statement to them. Yeah, right! Anyone for fraud!?? (rather not give someone both a statement and my CC number - could defraud me VERY easily) I did ask them if they would refund the cost of the fax call to the States from the UK, but they went quiet. Di*ks.

On the other hand, the chap at Surplus Shed asked no questions and popped the lens in the post the next day! Highly recommended!

I am getting there - bit by bit.... Least I can afford a nice lcd panel on the massive bonus we got at work this year. NOT.

Take care all, have fun over christmas!

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), December 21, 2001.

Hey, just stumbled upon this thread while trying to source parts for my own DIY lcd projector. I was pleasantly surprised to see an excerp from one of my posts from the AVS forum --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php? s=69a30faea84e28da1221c9cdc1b5eb0c&threadid=100219. I gleaned that information from a number of posts on AVS and I believe that the lumen stuff is correct (the people on that forum are THE experts in this area IMO). As far as your collective desire to create a projector, I think that is great. However, I think the directions taken thus far and at the couple of other sites I have seen are probably a dead end. No flames please, just my opinion. That is, if your desire is to create an image as good as that obtained from a commercial LCD projector. Scavenging parts from another, non-lcd projector device will result in an image that is less than satisfying. Poor contrast ratios, hotspotting, lousy refresh, you name it. I understand that commercial components are hard to come by, but IMO, that is the only way to achieve your goal. I believe that it would be possible to build a commercial-quality projector out of commercial-quality components for about $500 or less. How do I come to that figure? Well, a very decent (not the best) lcd projector can be had for $1500 retail. These projectors contain a good number of components and features that a DIY project doesn't need. Internal scaler ... gone. Multiple resolution support ... history. Multiple inputs ... forget about it. Zoom? We don't need no friggin' zoom. That should take out $500 right there. Subract out the mark-up and assembly costs and $500 is probably a generous estimate on the cost. The problem continues to be the lcd. I don't believe that all the lcd projector manufacturer's make their own lcd panels. Who does? Figure this out and maybe we can get somewhere. Why is it so hard to find? What incentive would a lcd projector panel manufacturer have for putting their wares on the internet? Not exactly a big market for these things outside of the manufacturing arena. Perhaps our only hope is to source panels from an authorized repair shop. These will have a hefty markup, but it might put us on the right track. I also believe another, cheaper light source is possible, but it may require more frequent replacement. Probably still cheaper in the long run, just not as convenient. What I am proposing is a 800x600 lcd projector, using PolySi lcd panels with a single SVGA input. I'm a firmware engineer and I would even consider lending out my services if we needed to build a controller. This could easily be done with FPGAs. Let's take this to another level ...

-- David Hall (halldav3@yahoo.com), December 20, 2001.

Well it was up and running, I first made it out of cardboard to test it, now I'm building it out of wood. The bulbs I use are 60watt they are made by Philips and put out about 1000 lumens each. As for the screen I just the brightens down the bulbs are bright to over light the backlit. What kind of screen did you use? Mine screen was a third- party screen and the backlight was not that bright, if you go to the walmart's website you will find a screen that cost 119.99, but mine cost 99.99 and it's a differnt brand. You may have a brighter backlit than me. I don't get a doubling effect the only problem I have is part of the lense showing in the lower right side of the image but is really small. My picture isn't super bright but it's bright enough so I can have a small lamp on and still see good enough.

-- ronny mccoll (remarque@carolina.net), December 20, 2001.

Hey Tim, I have actually riped apart an old LCD and the polerizer was a layer of film, if I remember correctly it was before the the liquid crystal layer.

Hey Ronny, In my tests with useing an opaque projector, the light from the projector simply overpowered the light from the backlight in LCD and all that was projected was the image of a blank screen. I was only using the cheap bulb that came with the cheap projector. Is it possible you used an LCD w/ reflective backing rather than a backlight? Or I suppose it is possable that the lights you used are so bright they go through the LCD join the backlight and reflect back through? How is your picture do you get a doubling effect? Did I understand that you have this all up and working or is just the projector box that is now working? If this is just a plan please state so in your posts. If it is up and working I'm very curious as to exactly how. I would be very happy to find that this is right as it was the idea that got me started with this stuff in the first place.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 19, 2001.

I finally build my projector it's a 9 inch tall box my 6 inch. It uses two halogen bulbs( the kind from an OHP with reflector), one fans from a computer and playstation portable screen( I didn't every to take it apart) and a 5 inch magnifing glass. it work like an Opaque projector, all parts can be found at walmart and your local hardware store. I build it this way because most of the heat can suck out by and you don't have to worry about the lcd over heating if the light was behind it the lcd would over heat in no time. I'll put diagrams on the yahoo forum Wednesday so it's probably on there now

-- ronny mccoll (remarque@carolina.net), December 19, 2001.

Heres the address for my new site. Hope someone gets some help out of it! http://members.tripod.com/~video_ventures/index.html

-- Josh Baker (video_ventures@yahoo.com), December 18, 2001.

Hey guys, Just though I'd finally post and congradulate everyone on there amazing progress. I've learned more in here then I learned on my own in four months of research. I hope to start updating on my own progress soon, but im still in the R/D stage. I would also like to comment on the fact that no one seems to have set a web page dealing with this content yet. This alone im sure has kept a lot of people in the dark. (no pun intended) So I've decided to "get it done" With the recent messages promising "Restructuring" of this post site in the new year, I think its the right time. I'll be posting later to let everyone know the site address. One big thing I do need is support in this creation. Pictures/diagrams, anything you can offer will be greatly appreciated. Please email me with anything you may have. Thanks to all!

-- Josh Baker (video_ventures@yahoo.com), December 18, 2001.

Hey Mike! You are of course right about the polerizing film. Must have had a brain laps. But then would it not be true all things being equal. Is what I need then is 675 lumens on the screen side of the panel. Another thought, how is the polarizing film incorporated into panel? From science class I remember playing with polarizers and if I remember correctly you can use another polarizing filter to counter the effects of the first one, hummm. More research.

Thanks Tim

Digeratus (look it up)

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 18, 2001.

Hey Tim, You've I'm not sure about your formula, because your a bit ahead of me in your Lumen research. However most likely you are right, except for one factor. LCD screens have polerization films in the "sandwich", I know that people talk alot about the unbeleivable loss of light going through the LCD and I think it's because of this. So yes you probably are right on the money , but you would have to figure in this percentage of light loss somehow. I'm not sure what the light loss is?

Laptop peoples; You must have a way to get video in. So you could arleady have that, or you may need to buy driver boards for your LCD and hook these up, or you could strive to maintain all conections and keep as a computor and get a Tuner or video in card for your laptop. This could get complicated and I have never opened up a laptop LCD. So I don't have the sligtest idea what you will be dealing with in trying to move the driver boards out of the way. This board has been dealing with backlit LCDs, so at least make sure you have that. And remember that YOU WARRENTY IS VOID AS SOON AS YOU OPEN THE CASE!!! So for gosh sake use an old laptop!

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 18, 2001.

OK all,,, Help me out here. What is the deal with the Lumens. I have I got it all wrong after thinking I had it all right.

I have been reading and searching the all the forums for the information on setting up a Home Theater. I am limited to using my small den as the theater. I am planning on placing the screen on the wall and a single row of seating on the opposite wall. Based on the many posts on the subject of viewing distance vs. screen width, 2X the screen width makes for a pleasing viewing distance Given an eye to screen distance of about 11', this works out to 66" wide. I figure a 72" screen would be ok.

With a screen size of 72" and the amount of light needed being 10-25 ft/Lamberts, with 15 being the average local theater and 20-25 being optimum for picture quality. With a 4:3 aspect ratio, the total screen area would be about 27 sq.ft. 27 * 25 = 675 lumens. I only need a 675 lumen projector.

IS THIS MATH RIGHT,,,,well i know the math is right but is it the right formula?????

Help please

Tim

Digeratus (look it up)

-- Tim Lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 18, 2001.

Hey all,,,,, Got the LCD panel cleaned and fixed, had to rewire the power connector but all works fine now. I hooked it up to my Direct-tv s-video port and the lcd screen is sharp and clear, as best I can tell without a projector

I just ordered a DELTA 20 TV PROJECTOR LENS. It's rated for high contrast performance. 90mm focal length, f/1.0. Includes an adjustable mount for focusing. 4-1/2" diameter by 4" long.

$10.00 at the surplus shed

Will keep you updated on further developments.

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 17, 2001.

I too am interested to know if there is a way to use a laptop lcd screen for this project.

-- John (JohnGee8@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

I have obtained a brand new NEC Laptop case with the LCD. Has anybody found a way to use a laptop LCD as the video source for this project? Thanks.

-- Deron Hess (hessd@skyenet.net), December 17, 2001.

Hey Everybody, Don't want to loose this board, Lets evrybody make suggestions on where to move to, and on wednesday, we can start a vote , then migrate.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 17, 2001.

I did it again, Bad url! Oh buy the way on the other forum you can edit you previous posts. Which would be really handy for me right now,,,,LOL

Here is the good one diyaudio.COM Sorry for that

Tim

-- Tim Lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 17, 2001.

To the forum!!!!

In response to the post by Chance that the board is going to change. There are other alternatives. I have also been following the forum on DIYAUDIO at the following url DIYAUDIO.com It,in general is a little behind this forum but maybe we can fix that. I have been following both for a couple of weeks now.

Please check it out.

Thanks Tim --------- Digeratus (look it up) --------- 9b766e&threadid=281&perpage=15&pagenumber=21

-- Tim Lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 17, 2001.

O.K. I think it may be time to get serious here. I don't mean to rush anyone, but there are going to be some changes made to these message boards. I'll let you read the message posted by Mr. Greenspun himself on Dec. 6th. If they start charging, I think we are going to lose alot of people. So let's all get busy. I know it sucks to be put in a rush right around Christmas, but I have a feeling they are going to try to implement some changes in January. You know "new year....new rules." I think it is bullshit, but what can we do? Here is the post.......

I'm currently trying to figure out how to redesign these services so that

1. users are authenticated, e.g., before posting they have to register and respond to an email message (we won't know who they are but at least we'll know that they supplied an email address where they can receive mail)

2. a person is available to handle service inquiries

3. a programmer is available to provide enhancements based on user needs

4. "the site is financially self-sustaining", i.e., either the owners of bboards or the most active posters are "contributing to the costs" of sysadmin, programming, hosting/bandwidth, and customer service

When these services were built in the mid-1990s it made a lot of sense. Running a database-backed Web server was an esoteric art that required expensive hardware and proprietary software. But as we enter the year 2002 there are quite a few 14-year-olds who've set up Linux, Postgres, and OpenACS in less than one day. With a $500 PC and a DSL line, they end up having all the collaboration tools that dotcoms spent $10 million to construct. Bottom line: prepare for some changes to these services!

Philip Greenspun, December 6, 2001

Good luck my friends. I hope to see you all after the storm. If the membership is not too expensive, I will probably stick around. If the membership is outrageous, I'm history. It pisses me off to get involved in something great and have someone pull the plug for financial gain. Write down email addresses now if you have to. Have a great day. Sorry for the bad news. CHANCE

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), December 17, 2001.

I'm very interested in this project... Can someone explain to me the CHEAPEST way of getting this to work. What do you guys use, a projection panel, is that it? Or do you try and homebrew it.

Also, anyone taught of a way of using this without an overhead. Laut Tran was talking about not using an overhead, but I didn't understand WHAT he used if it wasn't an overhead.

With the overhead, the whole thing becomes rather simple, no?

-- Dan (governor34@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Hey Tim, Remember that your "Spot" has to be able to be as wide as the long side of your LCD by the time the light reaches the panel. The lights sound good, although I don't know how to convert from candelas/candle power to ANSI Lumens. I would start with the of the LCD screen and draw a triangle that comes to an X_degree point, this should give you the distance your light will need to be away from monitor to cover whole LCD. If you will be using a mirror before the LCD and we know your mirror is at 45 degree angle you can fold the triangle you made anywhere between the apex and the base, keeping the apex(top point) on the centerline perpendicular to the base then open the fold to a 90 degree angle, vuala you have a model of your light path, and it indicate x, y, and z locations of light, mirror and stage.

Have a good weekend evrybody, I'm workin tommorrow so I may post if anything comes to mind.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 14, 2001.

Whoooo! What happened to my formating on that post? The candel power table should be read respectivly 10 degree spot is 8081 candela and so on. Sorry!

Tim

-- Tim Lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 14, 2001.

Has anyone checked into the SoLux Lamps? They can be found here

www.usalights.COM

It looks to me as though it might be a workable solution.For under $10.00 each.

MR16 (12 Volt) (tungsten-halogen based) Voltage... 12 volts Wattage ... 50 watts Lifetime ... 3000 hours IR Reduction ... 58% UVB ... 2.36 microwatts/lumen UVA ... 39.63 microwatts/lumen Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) ... 4700K Color Rendering Index (CRI) ... 99.35 Beamspreads ...10°, 17°, 24°, & 36° degrees

Candle Power (CP) Chart per/sport angle

10° 17° 24° 36° 8,081 3,998 2,306 1,390

-- Tim Lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 14, 2001.

If nobody else has noticed, the reason you can find the same LCD screen from two different places, with two apparently differing resolutions, is because some places 'cheat'. While one lists it as, say 480x280 resolution, and the other says 1440x280 resolution, they're both technically right.

What the one with the 1440 resolution is saying, is that each red, green and blue pixel counts as an individual pixel, giving an apparent 3x resolution of the place that sells the same LCD as 480x280. See?

-- Chris (chriscoull@blueyonder.co.uk), December 13, 2001.

The "What were you thinking" message board is off to a great start. Feel free to jump over there and check out some of the posts. Add the address to your favorites if you plan to visit it often. Thanks for your support

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), December 13, 2001.

Hey All, Just wanted to let you know that I got my LCD panel. The unit was not working when I recieved it, it turned out to be a bad 12Volt lead from the power supply. Fixed the lead and presto! I now have a working LCD panel for the sum of $80.00 thanks to E-Bay( I love that place ) The panel is bright and crisp. I am going to try and go with a custome lighting source of some sort. Not sure yet, what the best way to go here is. I have been reading the posts and have some ideas.

And thanks for the forum, it's a great idea.

-- Tim Lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 12, 2001.

Hey everybody the new idea board Chance set up is great! "What were you thinking" is gonna take off like a rocket ship. We may have to think of organising a co-op to get good prices on parts, maybe a share plan for sharing profits from any ideas developed on the board. Well maybe we don't have to take it that far, but as you can tell I'm excited. Feel like we've got a pretty cool little brain pool goin here.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 12, 2001.

Hey Julian, Welcome aboard, start by reading the section of previous posts concerning resolution. Then choose your LCD panel (you definately want TFT), or if you have already purchased your LCD screen read it anyway so you may know what to expect.

Then you will be removing most/all of the casing from the LCD panel (before doing this check to see that you will be able to move the driver board out of the way of the LCD panel [a single ribbon or at least attachment of ribbons to a single side of the LCD is ideal]), then you will move the driver board out of the way (use caution here, don't bend or crimp the ribbon cable, also if you touch the ground [metal on backlight sheild should do, this will remove any static charge you may have] Then you will remove the back light unit completely (this should only be 2-4 wires)(also use caution when handling the backlight unit, flaurescent bulb transformers can pack a whalop)you should wrap the cut leads that remain attached to the unit with electrical tape so that they may not cause a short. Now you have a still functioning monitor w/ no case or backlight and the driver board moved out of the way, think of the LCD panel as an animated slide or transparency. Don't panic if you test now and can't see picture on LCD, remember you have to have it lit somehow.

CAUTION: I AM NOT AN ELECTRICIAN OR AN EXPERT IN THIS FEILD, THESE INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN AS A SHARING OF KNOWLEDGE BASED ON RESEARCH AND EXPERIMENTATION. THE AUTHOR EXCEPTS NO RESPONSABILITY FOR INJURY, & THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND MADE HERE. ALL RIGHTS TO THIS POST RESERVED, COPYWRITTEN IN THE CHEAPEST MANNER I KNOW, BUT NONE THE LESS COPYWRITTEN (This is simply so that I, don't start seeing people selling this post all over the web, paranoid? How do you suppose the first guy who came up with the 100" TV feels.)

At this point advice and instructions will begin to vary. In the interest of simplicity, I choose to give you the easiest route and the way I intend to do it, at least to start.

I plan to use an OHP (OverHead Projector), so we will proceed to make the LCD Panel compatable w/ the OHP. First make sure the glass stage on your OHP doesn't get to hot (not sure what safe temp is, check LCD specs for your unit). Next useing Black on Black foam core ( or some other opaque material, white on black and white on white foam core will allow light to pass) measure the outer dimensions of the OHP stage, the are the outer dimensions for your "stage mask" (SM). Next measure the dimensions of your LCD, these are the dimensions of the aperature (hole, [SMA]) in your stage mask, locate the hole dead center stage. Next make a second rectangle (like a frame, [LCDF]) of the foam core w/ SMA as its hole and SMAx+2" X SMAy+2" as it's outer dimension (add an inch all the way around the hole). Next we want to elevate LCDF (LCD frame) over the SMA about 1.5" above the Stage Mask. Mount your LCD on the LCD frame, w/ the driver board appropriatly located on the opaque part of the stage mask (you will need access to the Power and Video Inputs). Then mount a fan (I suggest a brushless CPU cooling fan and mount it as far from the driver board as possable). The fan should be ducted (extend the existing duct with shirt card board, just make sure to seal the seems tight) such that it will cause a constant flow of air in the space between the LCD Frame (LCDF) and the Stage.

Now your ready to plug in and go (Use the supplied power supplies for the LCD and projector, or know what your doing! The fan could be tapped to either Power supply depending on your situation or just get a wall wart [transformer/adapter]for it). I would also suggest one of those Power Timers (for turning lights on and off while on vacation) this will give you a sleep feature. You don't want to have to buy more bulbs then necessary for the OHP, just cause you fell asleep with it on (Older OHPs may be dangerous if left on).

Well I was going to go over how to get your best image too, but this has gotten so long. Why don't we wait and discuss that later.

There are many people on this board and much of what I have written here is a direct reult of there contributions. There are a lot of good minds to tap here so utilize them.

On another note, see ya at the new idea board, thanks once again Chance.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 12, 2001.

I would like to know how to start making this lcd projector. Wich is the first step, i dont understand what do i have to do with the lcd screen... I have done the 100 inch tv projector but it was just the tv/monitor with a box, and a fresnel lens But...buy the screen and then the light (where can i get it). Then how to continue... the light is behind the screen? WHERE? HOW?. Please someone help me... How to get the hdvt quality? (screen name, seller). Thanks.

-- Julian (microfilm@terra.com), December 11, 2001.

O.K. I've established a new message board for posting ideas and gadgets unrelated to this subject. The address is.......http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl? msg_id=007Les.........It is called "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?" and it is under LUSENETS title page as "EXPERIMENTATION, GADGETS, NEW CONCEPTS". Please post all unrelated topics and ideas there. I am excited to see what people are thinking. If it doesn't take off, then I'll try something different. Mike, I'd appreciate it if you would post something there related to your holographic projector. Graham it sounds like you may have some cool ideas brewing in your head too. I'm not trying to substitute the new message board for this one, I'm mearly trying to open another avenue to squelch the limitations of this board. It is a great feeling to ponder all day about what will be posted. I usually check for new posts right after I walk through the front door. The new message board will even be more exciting for me because it is open to alot more variety of information. If you don't like it right now, I am open to suggestion. Lets give the new board some time though to get off the ground.

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), December 11, 2001.

Hey all, Found a cool light at thrift store this weekend. It was apparently a "spot" for video filming. I don't know how to figure lumens or color tempurature, but man is it ever bright and very, very white. It's rated something like 650 watts and very compact, man it gets hot though. I plan to install it in old OHP casing and fiddle with measuring the tempurature building up in the box with different fan systems. This should help me determine a good material for building a more compact version.

This car computor sounds really cool. But to tell you the truth I have been avoiding putting a computor in my home let alone my car. I spend 90% of my time at work on the computor and I know if I put a system in the house I'd spend most of my free time on it as well. If I put one in my jeep, I can just see myself on camping trips using the computor the whole time.

On another note, I was looking for projects to do on the cheap this weekend. I've been reading alot about electrostatics and high voltage experimentation, Tesla, Vandegraph, Whilmhurst etc... I got out some hard copies of stuff I had and built my very first 2 letden jars and an electrostatic motor out of nothing but a couple wires some medicine bottles and film cannisters. I was able to harvest a charge from the TV set and run the electrostatic motor, it has a few kinks to work out. But man has this stuff got my creative imagination going. I have put down sketches and plans for over 20 artistic applications of the technology, including clear glass motors. Because of the way the electrostatic motor functions there doesn't have to be contact to the rotor so I'm picturing a glass vase standing in between a couple of columns spinning with no visible means of propulsion.

Also built a desk out of an old plexiglass cabinet door and a couple very stong speaker stands, looks really cool with my chair. Getting despirate for big screen, but it looks as though I won't be able to swing anything until after holidays.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 11, 2001.

If anyone's interested, the screenshot I mentioned is here: http://www.painlesswebdesign.com/lcd/

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), December 09, 2001.

Chance, It just shows how alike we all are - the car Mp3 player resembles another one of my ongoing projects! I'm not going for a fully made up solution or CD-R reader (for the benefit of DIY spirit!) but I'm installing a computer into the car. I'm not too concerned with the space it'll take up because I'm fitting the motherboard etc into a HI-FI case and positioning it with my amps under the front hood (I have an MR2, so there's a crappy spacesaver spare wheel there at the moment!)

As for the software, I've written a full screen visual basic application that kinda resembles the Alpine onscreen displays - only at higher clarity. I'll post a picture of a screenshot if you're interested!

Like he said, we don't choose to go to the moon because its easy, we choose to do it because it is hard.

Check out www.mp3car.com under the 'Examples' section to see what people have accomplished.

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), December 09, 2001.

Hey all you gadget lovers out there! It appears as though there are alot of new posters on this message board. Thanks for spreading the word. How many of you have built your own LCD projector? Keep up the good work. If anyone has answers for Mike, or even an idea that might help out his situation, please take time to post. Now, on another note, I was sitting in my car the other day listening to music, and was getting really pissed off at my CD player. It's a stand alone CD car stereo pullout deck. You know the old crappy ones. This damn thing puts a ring around all my CDs as if something inside the unit is rubbing or scraping the CD. I can only play songs up to the point where the scratched ring is, and then they start skipping. I've pulled the thing apart many times and I'll be damned if I can figure out what is causing it. Cleaning the laser eye doesn't help either. Anyway, my friend has a brand new CD player made by Kenwood that plays CDR'S and CDRW'S. He can play MP3'S for days. So I started daydreaming about putting my computer in my car. I had to laugh at myself, when I thought about having that big bulky thing sitting behind my front seat. I got online to see if anyone else had thought of the idea. I found alot of different sights where people did it. Some guys built some small compact systems equiped with lcd monitors, remote controls, dvd players, gps systems and etc. Some of them are pretty cool. But I still had to laugh at the thought. I did a little more searching and came up with this web sight.........http://www.carplayer.com/ssi/cpm25/hddunit.shtml....This thing looks awesome. It is a removeable hard drive and car docking bay that allows you to remove an included hard drive, take it into your house, and put it into an included PC docking bay. INCLUDED ACCESSORIES Remote LCD with metal case on a wire - Remote Control for use with the Car Rack MP3 and Remote LCD WHAT’S ELSE IS INCLUDED? MP3 Head Unit, PC Dock, Car Bay, Extra Bright Wired Remote LCD (with ON/OFF), Instructions, MusicMatch Plus, and Cables. Check this thing out, it sounds awesome. Let me know what you think.

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), December 08, 2001.

Hey everyone, This may be putting the cart before the horse for many of the contributors but I am trying to work making a decent screen for viewing. There is a forum at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s= 74af39abdf78f348af3b254569c4d000&forumid=23 which has given me several ideas. One of the threads mentions a waterproof panel manufactured by parkland plastics called plastex. Apparantly it can be purchased at Lowe's or Home Depot for under $15. I'm going to try it out this weekend and I'll let everyone know the results.

-- tony (nospam@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

Hey Mike, I sure will. I also want to pass on a link I came across. The internet is truly a wonderful thing.

It is eio.com this site has a lot of info and is project oriented.

I will be putting up a page to document my project it will be at timlewellyn.com in the near future.

Also will make available to all on request.

Thanks Tim

-- Tim (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 08, 2001.

Hey Tim, Let me have some info on this "Cyclops" when you get would you. Sounds really cool, I wonder if it is just for "target shooting" w/ games or pointing in presentations, or do you suppose you could use it as an active cursor sort of replacing the mouse with the laser pointer.

Also if you have need of doing some repairs or anything on the panel I'd like info there too, I'd like to attempt to fix my old one. Was thinking about simply replacing LCD Driver Board, but I don't know how to tell if the problem might be in the LCD itself (TFT LCDs are controlled by THIN FILM TRANSISTOR arrays, maybe I blew out some transistors or something. If anyone has any ideas on how to go about the troubleshooting for the repairs I could use some iput.

Have a productive Wekend You Guys, Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 07, 2001.

Mike Thanks for the answer. I realized after I posted the message that I should have stated it was a Projector Panel and not a projector. The thing is it was so cheap $80.00 The catch! it might not work as is. There was alot that came with it, including "Cyclops" a sort of computer laser pointer interface with a camera that watches the screen for the laser pointer. I can see where this cold be used for some neat tricks if I utilize the a computer with a DVD player and appropriate video technology.

I am going to be in need of some advice in the coming weeks to get it all to gether. And with this group I think I will have no problems.

Thanks again Tim

-- Tim Lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 06, 2001.

Congrats Tim, You baught the product we are trying to build. All you will need is an OHP (look for 4000 ansi lumens or better). I suggest you use the S-VHS input if you have an S-VHS source for best quality image. You stated that you baught a video projector but the OV820 that you referenced with URL is a projector panel, this is for use in combination with an OHP. It should do automatic scan doubling for you on the video inputs so you wont even need to buy a scan doubler. You should expect an image that is better than standard resolution rear screen projection, but not as sharp as HDTV resolution. A DVD player will give you fantastic picture.

Keep us up to date.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 06, 2001.

Hello all And thanks for this great forum. I am just getting started with an LCD projector. I skipped over from the 100"tv site after reading all the posts and finding that it (100"tv) may indeed be a dead end I will keep an eye on it though, it is a very interesting project.

I have just purchased the following from ebay A 6.7 X 5.1 active matrix LCD projector it has NTSC, S-video, Pal and Secam inputs. It has a contrast ratio of 200 to 1 and supports 2 million colors with a resolution of 648 X 480. The complete specs. can be found here http://www.proxima.com/site/Products/PR_Ov820.cfm

Please let me know what you think,

Am looking forward to getting started on it. Thanks Tim

-- Tim Lewellyn (tim@timlewellyn.com), December 06, 2001.

Hey Agent Davis, Looks like a great deal, good size, good resolution, capable of composite (interlaced) video only. The contrast ratio concerns me a bit, as I have seen much higher. From the diagram in the PDF spec sheet it appears that the panel connection is a single ribbon, so you shouldn't run into any trouble getting the driver board and backlight out of the way. You may have to rewire the video connection, but this shouldn't be too much trouble.

Good work Agent Davis.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 06, 2001.

Booyah! Look what I found. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=205-013&DID=7 234x960 resolution. Check out the complete specs in the PDF. This looks like a very good prospect for the price. Best of all it has contrast control.

-- Agent Davis (ciawannab@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

Some information:

Ideal lamp: >10.000 lumens, cannot convert to ANSI lumens because it's depend on many factor inside the projector. >5000 degrees Kelvin light temperature (daylight temperature is 5600 d.K)

White LED, >5000d.K light temp. but too small lumens / costwise. www.e-insite.net/ednmag/contents/images/149134.pdf Halogen lamp, very cheap ($5 complete set),I use this type of lamp for my first experiment (floodlight, 300W/220V (my country standard voltage),5000 lumens,3000d.K, 2000 hrs life), output is not bright enough and some kind of yellowish color, (like watching old movies with old projector in old cinema sometime in 1930es). Metal-Halide lamp, moderate ($60 complete set), for my second experiment (floodlight, 150W/220V, 11500 lumens,4300d.K, 10000 hrs life), output is very bright and real white! Both lamps very hot. Temperature in front of it (30 cm, with powerfull cooling fan) measured: 40d.Celcius.

-- gwidijanto (gwidijanto@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Hey all, I fiddled with the "gameboy" LCD this weekend and I think I've gotten rid of the reflective surface. Thought I'd mock up a panel out of it and see how it goes.

"IT", "Ginger", or "Seguay" as it is now called is pretty darn cool, it's about $3,000 now, but I expect if it catches on it'll be down to $1,500 w/in 2 years. I also expect that this is just an introduction as the name implies, and the other functions I mentioned, (3 wheels on each side climing stairs, and hydrogen engine) will be coming, Dean Kamen already has put out these technologies in other products. The Gyroscopic control is whats really impressive and I think this will give the whole transportation industry cause to re-evaluate all previous design.

I am really happy about the way this board is rolling along. I wish I could take more of a lead in the documentation of an actual unit, but with the holidays and everything going on at home it's not coming together as quickly as I would like.

I am near Washington DC, USA.

As for the light source, I beleive if you use a multiple source (christmas lights, etc.) you will have to have some sort of condenser lense to "converg" the point of light. My OHP uses a 360watt 82 volt lamp, powered from 120 volt AC house current. So there is some kind of transformer and voltage regulator.

I have been trying to figure a way to take the spare lamp socket from unit and hook up as second light w/ second fan, in same box. Mine is rated at 4000 Lumens, but I beleive with twice the light I could turn down the bright and contrast and get better color.

Thanks for the encouraging words all, we've got some exciting stuff going on here.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), December 04, 2001.

Ok. I have a plastic fresnel from a 100inch tv project. And I have just order 2 more (which i think is of glass or something). So I have a total of 3. What would the wattage of the halogens be?

Christian

-- Christian Wattengård (wattenga@online.no), December 04, 2001.

I think the colour temp needs to be close as possible to 5400K (correct me if I'm wrong though.)

For the purpose of testing and getting the initial 'wow... cool...' factor I am not too worried about the colour temp. To keep the cost down I'm steering away from Metal Halide (which also requires a ballast to work) ...but ultimately there are good reasons behind why replacement lamps for commercial projectors cost a fortune.

The idea I was toying with for the halogen/car lamps was to have them poking through the bottom of a reflective dish (like the shape of a car headlight assembly) and using a fresnel lens at the mouth of the bowl to focus all the light through the panel.

Oh yeah, on the subject of colour temperatures - I have seen light bulbs with a blue tint that are supposed to give a true daylight colour - maybe a gel in the same colour could be used after the fresnel an before the panel?

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), December 03, 2001.

How would you mount the halogen bulbs together?

What temperature should the light be to get the best possible colors?

What about metal halide or xenon?

Christian...

-- Christian Wattengård (wattenga@online.no), December 03, 2001.

Christian, welcome aboard! I too am building a home brew solution - I've ordered the parts and plan to take copious amounts of photographs of the installation and running. Thanks for the note on resolution - I think the real test will be in the construction of one of the PS1 monitors to say whether or not they're up to much.

Have you had any thoughts on the light source? I was thinking an array of 4 12 volt 100watt halogen spotlights would give a good output, or maybe the same layout of car headlights. I'd rather use a 12volt system so I can position the transformer out of the way and feed the DC voltage & signal lines up to the projector together (without interference)

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), December 03, 2001.

Hi.

I've been following this thread for a while now and hoping for images and such for a long time ;). I really want to give this a go, but without the OHP. I want a totally homebrewn custom project ;)

Just to clear things up about the 1440*something LCD's: The width is because they count each color pixel. 480*R, 480*G, 480*B = 1440. So the real resolution is 480*whatever.

Christian...

-- Christian Wattengård (wattenga@online.no), December 03, 2001.

Oh yeah, Mike... my guess was a flying car. That'd be the only thing I could think of that could be bigger than the internet. (or perhaps a totally lifelike virtual reality, Matrix stylee!)

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), December 02, 2001.

Cool idea, and very topical... How much wattage is each bulb? I'm guessing that you'd need to have more than will fit behind the panel to get to the light output unfortunately.

We have to try to reach 10000 lumens on the lamp side to give a bright enough picture on the wall. I'm looking into ways we can source high power bulbs for this purpose at the moment. Mike, you're OHP, does it have any special power supplies/inverters/ballasts in it or do you reckon the bulb will light up from the mains power? I am looking to find a way to use an OHP lamp in a custom enclosure to keep size and weight down.

Right, I've bitten the bullet and ordered the 5" screen and a projection TV lens... what shall I use for the light source? (did you have any success with the work lamp you mentioned, Mike?)

Ideally I'd like to grab a lamp from a police helicopter's spotlight. (The night sun I think they call it) !

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), December 02, 2001.

I know this is the probably the stupidest question in the world, but would christmas tree lights work as a backlight for the projector? I mean, they don't get too hot. You know how the lights come brand new in the box all snapped in place in the plastic? Well, I was thinking you could set up the lights like that in the plastic except pointing up. About 100 lights may produce sufficent light to pass through the LCD panel. I thought of this when I read about the LED idea, but christmas lights are cheaper and may work just as well. May be a crappy solution for a backlight, but I'm just trying to help.

-- Richard (ruthfmly@yahoo.com), December 01, 2001.

Tony, how much do you know about these overhead projection panels? I'd like to pick on up on ebay or something cheap. That one you have seems like its got some pretty good specs. I hope I can get something of that quality.

-- Agent Davis (ciawannab@yahoo.com), December 01, 2001.

Agent Davis, If you read lower down Myself and Mike came to the conclusion that the vertical resolution was compressed into half the number of lines. A CRT television will scan lines 1,3,5,7,etc and then 2,4,6,8 - we summised that the lcd must be 'ignoring' the second scan and therefore halving the number of vertical pixels required.

Also, 16:9 is the ratio of the size of image produced, not the number of pixels. You can show a 16:9 movie on a 4:3 TV and see the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. Also, who's to say the pixels are square!?

The quality of the panel is not the only consideration - you have to be able to move the driver board and backlight easily to leave the transluscent panel. Some panels have ribbon cables attached to two or more sides, making pivoting them out of the way a real PITA. Laut Tran posted a link a while ago to the one he got good results from. Read further down to see!

I agree with Chance, Mike, Go crazy mate.

Computer DVDs... Yes, there's no reason why you can't use one - this would mean you can make use of the VGA input on some lcd panels. Check out http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/ for an app that clears up and deinterlaces images. Also powerstrip (do a search in Google) allows you to fine tune monitor colours for a high quality image. I'm probably not going to go this route personally (for a while!) as I've just bought a Marantz DVD player and Sherwood AV amp. The LCD is going to be the icing on my cake!

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), December 01, 2001.

Is anyone using computer dvd on their project? I'm thinking of just adding a dvd drive to my computer and going this route. Is there software out there that can help to acheive some of the things that we need? It would be nice if there were/is software that would/does allow us to improve the picture quality, like removing macrovision and things like this. I'm excited about the possibilities of using the versatility of a computer. I have a room in which the walls are white and on one side sits my computer and the other side I could project my large picture on. Let me know your comments on computer dvd.

-- Agent Davis (ciawannab@yahoo.com), December 01, 2001.

Hey fellow posters, I don't want to get you all too excited, but I need to voice an opinion of mine. This project is so worth waiting for, when you finally are able to watch your projector it will give you GOOSE BUMPS!!! I just watched the Matrix DVD, which by the way has got to be one of the greatest SCI FI flicks of all time, on my new lcd portable projector. I will tell you now.....IT KICKS ASS!!!!! I have a clear, light, projected image of 115" side to side and 105" top to bottom. My image may not even be as good as the one we are all going to build. I know this portable projector does not boast HDTV quality, but I am very happy with it. Sure, I would love to watch an HDTV quality image, but for right now I am satisfied. I have been watching two movies per night. The Tomb Raider DVD is awesome. Now don't get me wrong, I am not trying to brag here. I am just trying to let everyone know that this project is more than worth the wait. The unit I have doesn't have to be used with an overhead projector, it is self contained. I can't wait to build my own homemade unit. I will use the homemade one in my garage with the garage door open. I saw a commercial where a guy takes a date to his house and sits with her in his car in his driveway and watches his big screen TV, which has been placed in the front part of his garage. I want to do the same idea, only have the neighbors drive by while I am seated on my lawn chair, in my driveway, watching the newest DVD release on my homemade LCD projector. I'll have it projected on the fron wall of my garage so eweryone who walks or dives by will see it. What a rush. Gotta go. Hey Mike, in what city and state do you reside? Just curious, we could be neighbors. Til next time

-- CHANCE (LETSNECK@YAHOO.COM), November 30, 2001.

Hey guys, First let me apologize for always having bunches of messages in a row on the board. I guess most of you guys are in Europe or posting at night in US, I never see any new posts through the day but there is lots of stuff when I come in in the morning. This is kinda cool for me, but I imagine from your end it looks like I'm trying to hog the board.

I checked out the GB advance Backlight project we were told about. 1st the guy plans to sell the "kit" so I don't expect we'd get much free info, 2nd I have to say it looks pretty cool, 3rd I was right he's just putting in a "backlight", 4th It seems like a pretty clever idea. From looking at his picture, I would gues that he is using Bright white LEDs and it appears the secret he has uncovered is not to remove the reflective coating, but to mount the LEDs around the LCD allowing the light to bleed through the edges of the top glass plate (like fiber optics).

Very cool, we could use this guy in our group if anyone knows him or feels like inviting him.

Graham & Chance, you guys seem a lot like me, can't get enough project fun. What say we set up a page with a topic like "Seeds for new Ideas", sort of a place to go and put out our ideas and others too, and if people wish to pursue any they could sprout new pages etc..

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 30, 2001.

I was trying to do a projector with a Gameboy color a while back, I think it can be done but most of the principles would be diferent than this project. The gameboy lighting problem as I understand it is that there is no backlight it is a reflective LCD (the reason for this supposedly is that the competition had come out with a backlit version of similar product that became very unpopular because of power consumption). Normally one can make a relective LCD into a transparent LCD by removing the mirror film backing from the LCD "sandwich", however at least with the gameboy color this was not possable as the coating was "painted on the back of the sandwich. I can't decide weather to try removing it with this chemical I have called aptha or to try to figure out how they do reflective LCD based projectors.

Most likely the gentleman mentioned is trying to add a backlight to the unit, this would put us right back where we started, needing to remove the backlight and replace with a projection type light source.

There may be good info there, and I intend to check it out, I'm just trying to avoid confusing people too much. We have many different leveled members here.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 30, 2001.

Hey Tony, The VGA signal is non-interlaced, so if you go in through the VGA port you need to 1st convert your signal from composite video (or component or S-VHS or RGB) to VGA. To accomplish this you need a scan doubler or a scaler (scalers are more expensive, but work differently and generally allow a higher resolution conversion, if you have XGA or better this would probably be worth it). Some scan doublers have been listed on this page and even where to get them. WARNING if you purchase one that does automatic signal detection for NTSC, PAL etc... be careful that you have a very pure signal to feed it. The one I purchased tries to figure out what signal it should be looking for everytime it gets interference and if this wasn't annoying enough everytime it tries to figure out signal it loses all my fine tuning adjustments. If you purchase one with a VGA pass thru you can also have your computer monitor hooked up, also some will take video and data inputs with a switch.

The avtoolbox sight has something called a multiconverter, it converts NTSC, PAL VGA every which way and claims to remove Macrovision in the process (we would never want to break copyright laws using one of these, yah, yah, its just for the LCD problem, ahem).

The only signal that my monitor does not give the bright/dark/bright effect is from my video game. I may be experiancing the problem with regular cable feed because of cable protection system (which I beleive is different from Macrovision, because it used to show as black bar down left side of my commercial LCD, as opposed to macrovision showing at bottom)

Hope this is helpful, Hoping to get my hands dirty this weekend, keeping fingers crossed.

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 30, 2001.

Thanks for all the input on the macrovision problem! It was happening when using both the yellow video input and the S-video input on the lcd panel. I tried all of the LCD panel controls and nothing seemed to make a difference.

What did completely solve the problem was a Sima Color Corrector I purchased from Fry's. It was not cheap ($150 but I found them online for $100) so I'll probably end up returning it and seeing if I can't find another solution. The picture is really amazing using this!

I found some posts on a newsgroup discussing this problem and one person said using the progressive scan feature cleared up this type of macrovision but my lcd panel doesn't have the right inputs-I may see if I can find a component to vga cable and see if that lets me use the progressive scan feature. Does anyone have any experience with this?

BTW- Agent Davis- this effect happens on all legal macrovision protected dvds (most major studios use it). It is not off of a dvd copy. Apparently this stuff is causing all sorts of annoying problems for people using lcd projection systems.

Again, thanks for all the input!

-- tony (nospam@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Hi all,

I did a bit of research on macrovision and how to get around it.

Macrovision is the effect of an image on screen getting lighter and darker in waves of a few seconds. I believe the time this waves takes differs between NTSC and PAL.

The electronic circuit responsible for the macrovision effect is called the AGC (automatic gain control). This circuit is found in almost all VCRs but almost no TVs. Its responsibility is to make light scenes darker, and dark scenes lighter - thus compensating for the degrading effects of recording to VHS. The AGC is a useful circuit on its own.

The macrovision fools the AGC into creating the light-dark-light-dark effect by sending waves of (invisible) information INBETWEEN each line, saturating the image. The AGC thinks the picture is very bright and turns the brightness down. Macrovision turns this saturation on and off every couple of seconds, which results in the changing picture you see.

Most people's television sets will not have the AGC circuit and so wont see the wave effect. My guess is that some LCD panels try to make up for their poorer contrast with an AGC circuit, and thus fall prey to the macrovision.

If you feed the panel a signal from your VCR and tune the VCR into a TV channel, do you get the same effect? I'm guessing not.

There are various devices around for removing macrovision (including circuit diagrams) but the problem is that Macrovision inc has patented these methods, so companies producing them are sued quite quickly.

Another word of warning - NTSC and PAL macrovision removers are not really compatable, so don't be tempted to import one cos it might not work!

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 29, 2001.

Hey Matt, Just checked out the spec sheet on your LCD, very impressive. Will it fit on your OHP? You will need to remove the unit from its casing and remove the backlight, but you should keep everything else intact. I highly recommend a fan for the LCD unit itself and a sandwich of air between OHP and LCD. Watch the temperature of your LCD very carefully, you've purchased an expensive monitor and I'd hate to see anything go wrong. Remember your warrenty will be void immidiatly upon opening the case.

If successful you are going to have one awsome projector, capable of HDTV resolutions. Do you have an HDTV reciever/decoder?

Also remember that your physical aspect ratio will be 4:3, so you will lose some of the monitors rated resolution (black Bars) when using 16:9 signal. You definatley have the optimum potential for 16:9 DVD resolution.

Good Luck, I am very excited to see how you do. Don't forget to keep us posted.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 29, 2001.

Hey guys, I did not experiance the bright/dark wave thing with my commercial LCD, however I now have a PC monitor (CRT type, SVGA) hooked up to my video system and I do get the effect on all video feeds. Lets look at the differences; I had my commercial LCD hooked up through a scan doubler I had purchased and my monitor is hooked up through a video input (BNC converted to RCA), The scan doubler I was using has brightness and other vid controls. The monitor experiances an offsetting effect at the top inch of monitor, when using a protected DVD or video (I assume this is the macrovision). Macrovision showed up on the LCD as a blck bar across the bottom.

I beleive the light dark effect is the fault of the on board scan doubler in my monitor being somehow slightly out of sync. We must remember that these monitors and even some of the LCD panels w/ video input were designed probably, with video thrown in as an added and 2ndary type feature. They probably use cheap scan doublers.

Another possability is the PPI (pixcells per inch, similar to DPI) PC monitors are 96ppi and NTSC signal (also Mac monitors) are 72ppi. does the scan doubler somehow compensate for this? Would a real scaler (more expensive than scan doubler) handle it differently.

Tony, on the LCD panel do you have frequency and/or phase adjustments, if so fine tuning these might help.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 29, 2001.

Ah, good old macrovision!

What input are you going through on the LCD panel? You shouldn't have an issue with macrovision with a panel like this if you are running through the s-video port. If you are, then there are various devices for stripping the signal of its macrovision copy protection - one of which being the 'cheese-box' mentioned by Mike in a previous posting. (costing around $80 I think.)

Does anyone have a proper explanation of macrovision? Once again I'm posting on opinions alone...! I get the brighter/darker/brighter when I tune my VCR to the DVD and watch the VCR channel. I get it in waves of around 2 seconds though.

My project has hit a financial brick wall until the end of the week - I'm going to purchase the 5-inch model recommended by Laut Tran in an earlier post, a rear projection TV lens and a halogen light source. I already have a selection of fresnel lenses, mirrors and fans.

My plan is to move away from OHPs and commercial lenses for the sake of both price and size.

I'm not too worried if the 5-inch model isn't all that good as I can always fit it to a friend's car!

I'll update as soon as I can! I should get a few pictures up on the website/group soon.

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 29, 2001.

Hi All, I posted awhile back asking about people's experiences using an LCD panel with an overhead projector. I now have a 4000 lumen OHP and an LCD panel (VGA: proxima 846) connected to my dvd player and wanted to let people know the results and get some input. To confirm Mike's previous post the results are pretty impressive. I'm projecting onto a light colored velux blanket with an image about 10 ft across. The pixelation is very minimal- you can see almost no pixels from about 10 ft. The only complaints I have are that the fans are noisy (I think solving this should be easy) and that the brightness of the image does not seem to be stable. I would appreciate any input on the brightness problem. Mike- you mentioned something similar to this with your panel but I'm not sure if is the same problem. What I am seeing is that the brightness of the panel is cycling so that the video image is brighter for about 8 seconds and then quickly fades dimmer for 13 seconds and then brighter for 8 seconds, etc... When the image is bright it looks like the pixels are being saturated (especially when the screen colors are lighter). I am pretty sure it is the lcd panel for the following reasons: I can pause a video and the cycling effect is very apparent BUT when my dvd screensaver or the proxima lcd panel screensaver is on there is no observable change in brightness. Any suggestions would be very appreciated! Overall this brightness change is not that bad- I'd still rather watch movies using this than on a regular TV!

-- tony (nospam@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Good idea! I'm not sure how that will effect the light though - the only concern is with the wavelength of the light, you might end up with a light that's not the right colour if the glass has a tint at all.

I'll look into that one....!

Graham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lcdprojector

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 22, 2001.

I think I've come up with a solution to the LCD overheating and burning out because of the bulb. I think the projector needs to be designed like those Energy Efficient windows that use two panes of glass with air sandwiched between the two. How about if you made a separate box for the bulb with a piece of glass to let the light through. Make another box holding the LCD panel and other electronics. Instead of joining the two pieces together, create a small 'One Inch Hallway' between them. You can cool the box which houses the bulb as well as the 'hallway'. Is this getting more complicated than it needs to be. I just figure this will allow us to use the higher wattage bulbs without worry of heat. It will increase the size of the projector but I don't really care how compact it is.

-- Jazz (jazzario@yahoo.ca), November 22, 2001.

I have discovered a small flaw in my previous thinking that may have caused some confusion in earlier posts. I have been mentioning 4:3, 16:9 and letterbox aspect ratios, apparently 16:9 is letterbox and HDTV aspect. The aspect that lies between 16:9 and 4:3 is, I beleive what they call anamorphic which I think is 1:1.78:1 (this aspect is supposed to lend itself well to both the 4:3 and 16:9 monitors).

Will be trying to put together projector panel this weekend. I will try to document start to finish in a "project guide" sort of way. This should show the potential for building a standard resolution projector panel (OHP required)for under $100. The one thing that concerns me is that the monitor will be 5" rather than the 8 3/4" I had with the commercial version, this means that for the same distance of projection I will only be able to acheive about 58% of the image size or roughly a 58" image.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 20, 2001.

Yahoo group is fine with me, but lets try not to loose anybody.

Well the Commercial LCD Panel has Crapped Out! I baught film, I set up, I started to think of good DVD seens to pause & photograph, and The LCD Panel seems to have lost all vertical hold. I have tried everything I can think of to troubleshoot the thing, damned if I know whats wrong. So this means I will have to accelorate my project a bit, cause I can't live without big screen anymore.

I looked at some really nice HDTV Rear Projections this weekend. I think these are the first I'd seen. The picture is well beyond what I have acheived with the Panel I had (but we new this, I was only running VGA) but putting the VGA projector on a scale between the HDTVs and the Standard rear projections, it defenatly leans to the HDTV side. My picture was much better than the standards. This gives me great hope for the possibility of very high resolution results.

I am all set up to take pictures and document, so at least once I get started I'll be able to do a good job of illustrating the project. I have found a store near me that sells the 5" Sony PS1 monitor and I think I'll have to settle on that for now. I figure this will be a good demo of the very affordable one, and after the holidays I'll try to do a high res one, I'd love to find an SXGA monitor and get a high quality scaler.

Hope to have something soon.

-- Mike Lnagway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 19, 2001.

Metal halide lighting - cheap diy aquarium pendant...

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Garden/5533/mhpendant.html

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 17, 2001.

Light sources...

Take a look at the following webpage: http://www.conservastore.com/03-0180.htm

These flashlights claim 500,000 candellas. (bright I think!)

Has anyone seen one of these in the flesh? I'd imagine the bulb life is limited (but I bet they're cheap).

I'd hope this sort of product stays relatively cool, it wouldn't be good for business if it melted during use! Coupled to a cold mirror and a fresnel lens to distribute the light, this could be ideal.

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 17, 2001.

Cool Graham, I will try to get some pictures over the weekend, you pick the sight, I'll let you know as soon as I've got something for you. Hey Chance, This is an extremely flexible project, I mean I think someone could pull off a low res projector, or maybe even a standard TV res projector panel for less than $100 not including an OHP. I plan to use th 7" Redant monitor to build a panel and I think at this point I will simply purchase an OHP, the one I want is extremely portable and runs around $220 so my projected cost for this one is $450. But it will work as soon as I make the panel w/ my current OHP so you could say I'll be able to watch it for $200. I love upgrading and improving things as I go so I am also looking at a PIP box for $200 that I will add to one of my projectors depending on resolution.

On the subject of the macrovision cleaned signal, I mentioned in last post, it occurs to me that the signal is probably cleaned of the macrovision, but the clean signal is VGA, so it would have to be again converted to interaced video to allow copying by VHS or DVDR. I do have a VGA pass through on the commercial LCD Panel and may at some point play with this idea, however I think there are other products out there for this purpose that would work better. Sorry for the side tracks but they can be very interesting.

Maybe this will help get some people started: Here are some different resolutions and what to epect from them;

640X240 LCD- When fed an NTSC signal should give standard resolution

640X480 LCD- When fed an NTSC signal through a scan doubler should give VGA (non-interlaced signal, theoreticlly it should have double the vertical resolution of standard NTSC signal)

800X600 LCD- Must use scaler and can acheive an SVGA signal (this shoul apply to PAL as long as the scaler is PAL capable)

1024X768 LCD- XGA 1280X1024 LCD- SXGA 1600X1200 LCD- UXGA

1280X768 is the highest resolution HDTV format I have seen, but there are many levels of HDTV and DTV. A DVD at 16:9 format as I understand it produces a resolution of 720X480 Progressive Scan/Non-interlaced.

The resolution you go for is all up to you, but keep in mind for the higher resolutions you need scalers and VERY IMPORTANT for this to work you must be able to access the LCD unit without obstruction.

FYI------- The FCC has said that all broadcasts must be in DTV by 2004 and all anologue boadcasting should be eliminated by 2006.

I don't know much about PAL, so I would very much appreciate a quick education from one you folks who is dealing with a PAL signal. What is standard PAL resolution? How does the signal vary from NTSC?

PLEASE NOTE THAT I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE SCAN DOUBLER I HAVE PURCHASED UNLESS YOU HAVE A REALLY GOOD SIGNAL TO FEED IT. I am replacing my wireless video connection with hard wire and rewiring everything through the video switch I use so that each device goes directly to the projector without modulation or chaining through other appliances. Hopefully this will improve my signal enough that the scan doubler will stop searching for signal type and loosing settings everytime it hits a signal glitch.

Sorry so long, Victoria's Secret on ABC last night at lifesize, was the bomb.

-- Mike Langway (m_langaway@bigfoot.com), November 16, 2001.

This project is launched! I know of at least one other prototype that came out of this board and my first one was completed (and lousy because of low res LCD w/ no TFT) before the board started.

This works and has been demonstrated already. The one we know works and well was by Laut Tran (who has neglected to post any updates), the unit he used was the PS1 portable monitor, looked like it was actually by Sony, this is the 5" one with the oval shaped monitor. If you look back he did post where to get it. Be careful not all PS1 monitors are created equally I tried with a 4" version by IntelPlay and found it impossible to move the driver board out of the way.

NOTE: PS1/PS2 as referred to on this board has thus far referred to playstation one and two. The same terms (PS1/PS2) refer to a computor connection standard and should not be confused.

Well everybody, The VGA converter I ordered from AVToolbox.com arraived last night. First the pluses; 1. SIMPLE HOOK-UP & OPERATION- Hooked up all wires and figured out all controls before opening manual

2. RESOLUTION- My main gain was not in resolution (I was already scan doubling thru RCA connection on comercial panel) however i do note that I can have the projector extremely well optically focused and the fonts (letters) do not get as jaggy on the edges, I assume the unit itself is doing some anti-aliasing (with scan doubler it is expected that fonts will become "Jaggy" because most people producing video utilise the natural "blurring effect" of interlaced video for anti-aliasing rather than applying other teqniques).

3. CONTRAST- I have noted an increased contrast ratio, and greater control.

4. ON SCREEN VIDEO PROCESSING CONTROLS- Tint, Color, Bright, Contrast, are now all controllable on screen & the contrast ratio is greater, I can pump the picture up brighter, and fine tune everything exactly how I want it.

5. EFFECTS & BORERS- I can now choose between 3 borders (R, G, or B) this is cool because it takes care of the black bar, at bottom or right, that is caused by macrovision or cable co.s security. I have not tested yet, but it seems to me that the new signal generated at output of device when border is on, could be considered cleaned of macrovision. I will have to test but this may allow duplication of protected tapes & DVDs. The effects are a little weird and I can't think of any really good use for them yet (negative image, all red, all green, all blue, limited colors and normal) but I will, its kinda like those shortwave radio guys say the more nobs and buttons I can fiddle with the better.

6. Because I now go in through the VGA port, I can take advantage of some of the special features of my commercial LCD panel, like I can zoom in 2X and pan about on regular video signals (my DVD did it before).

7. S-VHS- Now able to utilise S-VHS out of DVD, I cannot imagine a better image quality than what I now get out of my DVD. This is my first DVD player and I was very impressed with it before, but now I'm just plain blown away (and my copy of Tomb Raider is waiting for me at the store).

Now the negatives;

1. The device automatically detects its signal type (NTSC, PAL, etc...) this would be a possitive but the units memory for processing controls is lost whenever the signal detector is envoked. This means that if your signal breaks up from interference or something the detector begins to guess what signal it is supposed to be looking for, and forgets all your settings. This also occurs when manually swithing from S-VHS input to RCA input, and I assume VGA input to (I have not hooked the thing up to a computor yet).

Thats the only negative so far.

Pictures soon!!!! Hey by the way does anybody have a way we could serve up images and diagrams for everybody???

Sorry entry so long, but I promissed a thorough report.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 15, 2001.

There seems to be a bit of confusion about aspect ratios, I should point out that what I wish to acheive is a 4:3 image for a 4:3 source a 16:9 Image for a 16:9 source and a letterbox image for a letterbox source. I'm not at all interested in distorting the image. I think that from my DVD I will be able to tell it to be 16:9 output and thus 16:9 input to monitor etc... But with the video signal I get from my cable system I beleive the signal is set up for 4:3 with bars and such.

The LCD I'm looking at may somehow get rid of bars but my assumption is that I will have to supply 16:9 to get 16:9. This means for all you bat fans out there that, even if we acheive HDTV resolution (exception- some will be able to produce 16:9 from DVD players) in order to watch HDTV you will still need an HDTV signal decoder and an HDTV service. I think that an "anamorphic" signal will actually change to the aspect ratio of the monitor, but again this only applys to DVD.

There may well be a product out there which would allow us to do a sort of "bar removal" sort of zooming to the actual ratio. However I don't think it could give very good results, remember your starting with a 4:3 image with "bars" these "bars" represent pixcel space in the signal, therefore zooming to the image would cause a loss of resolution.

I should point out that the panel I use now is 4:3, but I watch letterbox and 16:9 stuff on it all the time. At 100"+ diagonal veiwable 4:3 image the black bar thing really isn't that anoying. However when watching letterbox, the moire effect is amplified and the resolution seems not as good.

My goal is to start with wide-screen/16:9, thus when I watch 4:3 I will get right and left "bars", and when I watch letterbox I will get thinner top and bottom "bars". Overall gain is in resolution, when 4:3 we are going to lower res any way so no loss, when 16:9 no "bars- No loss res", when letterbox thinner "bars" less res loss.

Also if anyone is interested in starting a Low cost, but decent quality version of LCD projector; 1. I have found a 4" TFT LCD for $70 that I think could produce a satisfying image. 2. With the clever folks we have on board here, I think there would be plenty of technical support for you to complete a good one now.

I am saving pennys for the 7" widescreen, but I get impatient so I'm liable to do a cheap one soon, myself.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 13, 2001.

Whoa, Talk about confusing the heck out of me after a 3 day weekend (Veterans Day Here). Well I guess the new stuff is at the top now. You guys did a lot of work while I was gone. I've been working too. I read over your most recent posts though. Just a couple of quick comments.

Somebody said it can be done with a portable TV and slide projector parts, I must concur it works but lousy resoulution. In fact I posted some live links a while back and one was to a sight that did it the same way.

Chance, If I were you I'd get that CRT projector, have you thaught of replacing the bad CRTs, professional CRT projectors really work great and are verey expensive. It would at least have 3 great lenses.

Ok, I baught a cheap one of those 500watt halogen work lights, I haven't built it up as a projector yet, but did do some quick testing.n I took my old OHP and removed old light source, rewiring so fan would still run (fan didn't work). I placed the whole work light right inside the OHP. I put my commercial LCD panel on it and projected a couple of times for a couple minutes each so as not to overheat.

The light out put seemed slightly less than the out put from my 82V 360W OHP. Thge lense configuration is different and seems lower poer than my good OHP. These lights get VERY HOT.

I found out there is a heat concern with Xenon strobes and bulbs too.

I went to buy my VGA converter planning to purchase the "Cheese Box" & changed my mind at the last minute and purchased one for ten dollars more, it has video processing controls (Bright, Contrast, Tint{NTSC}) and effects. I'll let you guys know more after it arrives.

avtoolbox.com is way COOOOL! They have a PIP Box for about $180 to add picture in picture to your project.

There is a device called a Multi-Converter which does scan doubling, Video to VGA, VGA to video, PAL to NTSC and NTSC to PAL, which also and this is the big deal REMOVES MACROVISION (allowing duplication of protected videos and DVDs).

Hey Graham, I also found the frequency and phase controls on my commercial LCD, with a little fiddling, I have gottten an incredible picture. I am certain that video fed through my video input is indeed being scan doubled. I can't wait to see how much improvement I get from using the S-VHS source. We've been using the terms scaler and line doubler interchangeably and it should be noted that a true scaler usually is able to go to higher resolutions (SVGA, XGA, SXGA etc...).

I am going to buy some 400 speed film and see if I can't get you guys some pictures of the video image. It is really unbeleivable with a good signal (better than rear screen, images I've seen at the stores).

Mike

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 13, 2001.

>>>>If you set up two rooms with the same amount of low ambient light I'd take mine anyday and save the $5,000 difference in price.

Well, many projectors are now available for $1800 - 2200. No longer 5k (only high end models).

>>I have measured the pixcels on screen at 1/16" square. When sharply focused this effect is somewhat degrading to the image however,

Don't need to unfocus. I used one of those fuzzy thin blankets, made of polysomething or other (velux?? brand name) and it fuzzed out the pixels while keeping the image sharp. (Use a white one, it's like polartec material, fells like velvet)

Has anybody thought of trying the 15" tv/lcd monitors? They have dropeed in price (15 is $799 or so). It would be great if it worked. All u wouldhave to do is to pop case off, remove backlight, put fresnel lens on back of lcd screen, and use projection lens/mirror head to do the trick. (With a light bulb of course). Why? Cause everything is built, svhs in, tv tuner, etc, and the high resolution. Most small lcd screens have poor resolution (especially the car versions, 234 vertical pixels). The problem with this is that $799 is almost half the cost of new projectors, and well, if you have the money, $799 more is not a whole lot rather than worry if the image is bright enough,etc if you do it yourself. When the prices drop to below $500, then this is the way to go (unless the projectors also drop by $500.)

Does anybody know where to get the high res lcd screens used in the projectors? And controllers? I suspect that these are not easily available cause of project like this (if you were Sony, would you put out components at say $300 so people don't have to buy your $2000 projector? Nope!!!)

Keep it up and one of us will hit on the perfect system.

-- me (junkmail666@lycos.com), November 12, 2001.

hello, just discovered your thread on a much loved project. this is not only my first post on this group but my first post period. with all the trumpets, fanfares, whistles and bells that may entail. anyway, i started looking into video projection when i bought a sherwood av amp (an r125rds as it happens, it has a severe earthing problem and humms annoyingly, alas).

my first machine was a 14" portable television set on its back, attached to the arm of an ohp. the lens to screen area was enclosed in a light proof shroud fabricated from pond liner and other stuff.

it still sits in the corner of the room, and did me proud for a whole summer term in university halls of residence. the resolution was reasonable, as an example the subtitled information in the entirety of series two of the x-files was legible at around 80" diagonal.

a screen was taken from a portable slide show item found in a charity shop, really it is no better than a whitewashed wall in usage. i have heard of bead screens, consisting of a layer of tiny glass spheres which have a cat's eye like response to the projected image. never found one though. reflective sheeting as found on indoor horticultural projects is supposed to have a good return of light hitting it. now the glossy surface i don't think would help, but if it could be slightly abrasively etched might it provide a good screen? the main problem was one of light output, a room with a string of white fairy lights on the roof made for the most compromised viewing scenario balancing the darkness of the image and loss of detail with fatuige inducing eyestrain. not ideal.

the curvature of the crt's surface was enhanced by the projection technique giving a fish eyed rounding of the final image. pretty simple though.

the second attempt was very similar to one of mike's being a gutted 35mm slide projector (which had already been butchered to make a crude imitation of a solar 250). a casio pocket lcd tv screen was separated from its backlight and difuser. i was worried about the fragile screen and sandwiched it between two plates of glass, in retrospect probably not wise.

the screen remained attached by a short length of ribbon cable to the main circuits, secured above and perpendicular. uhf signal from a vhs machine by co-ax, core to aerial mounting screw and shroud to power supply ground. as i do not use a computer or dvd source and only have pro-logic sound a vhs is the best machine for me. easy connectivity to playstations and other groovy things a bonus, so this might seem an ideal image source.

picture was brighter but with the hexagon appearance brough about by dark image periphery. this first made contrast difficult to establish uniformly, and then displayed the overheating problems. even with a fan from another slide projector ducted onto it the screen sandwich soon became extremely hot, and the image faded from the centre outwards.

ditching the 300watt 'w' filament bulb and replacing with a 12v 75watt quartz halogen bulb/reflector combo pin spot (as found in domestic lighting) and still fan cooled, did help a bit. the screen would hold out for the duration of a film but the picture quality was a bit naff. annoyingly i can't remember the quoted screen resolution of the donor tv, it was given in total pixels anyway and doesn't enlighten regards the problems of vertical resolution discussed by other contributors.

assuming that a donor screen of an acceptable resolution with a usable driver interface can be found - uhf is grand for me but i understand the potential quality of hdtv and dvd is the goal of many of the thread's contributors - the next issues would be an even, powerful and cool light source, running through to a lense system not suffering from the edge losses of a 35mm lense but with comparable throw over distance. i have obtained a lense supposedly belonging to a 4" projector, and a beautiful b&w glass aerial photograph slide in the 4" format. experimenting with these and the 12v light source still highlighted the problem of dark and out of focus image periphery. breaking the lcd screen has curtailed developement of that particular prototype, but one idea might warrant further investigation.

regarding light sources: in order to simulate arctic conditions in the experimental gardens, the university ordered a load of water cooled metal halide discharge lamps. the bulb is encased in a glass jacket containing circulating water, now apparently this jacket of glass and water of about an inch and half thickness, has the desirable effect of cutting out nearly all the infra red frequencies and leaving plenty of visible light. this presumably would work in our projection scenario by means of a glass tank in the light path, through which water might be pumped, also passing through a heat exchager (using air movement from a screen or bulb fan possibly). the most significant drawback of this plan is mixing water and electricity. low voltage bulbs help the safety issue, along with external power supplies. some i-r spectrum dye in the coolant might assist light filtering without impairing output. right, that is quite enough for now but i shall follow this thread avidly as it has kick started an old favourite. for anyone who has bothered to wade all the way here, thank you for the enlightening and inspiring discourse. all hail the grand information collective 'n all that. love james.

-- james (james.folkes@psion.net), November 11, 2001.

Right then, the Sunday teaser....

The 7" widescreen panel looks like quite a find, but I'm uncertain as to how you get the image to fit the whole screen...

Here's what I DO get:

Assuming a normal transmission of 4:3 can be stretched to 16:9 to fill the panel - all 4:3 broadcasts can be made to fit the screen. Widescreen DVDs appear 'squashed' when viewed in 4:3 (characters look tall and thin) and therefore when stretched to 16:9 will appear normal.

Here's the bit I don't get:

On normal transmissions of movies / news / documentarys (in fact most of the UK's TV) you see a black bar at the top and bottom of the image so the 16:9 movie screen fits into the 4:3 shape without distorting it. Here's the fun bit: If this image is fed into the 7" widescreen then the black bars will still remain - the image will look too fat and it wont fill the screen vertically.

How do we get around this? Can someone with a widescreen TV tell me how this works?

By the way - thumbs up for the messages being this way up Chance.

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 11, 2001.

hi, all you guys. I just found this thread. I'm going to diy my first LCD projector and here is my compilation of thinking about this project so far:

LCD driver: using ordinary VHS (low end) thru DVD (highend)playback unit with video jack (lowend) thru DVI input(highend). Now I use DVD playback with VGA output to the PC monitor. Hot topic is using PC as Home Theater. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26

Video resolution: at least 640X480 (VGA) best is 1280x1024 (SXGA)

LCD display: Affordable price for me is 600x800 TFT 12", using LCD monitor for PC or from notebook display. Screen is 100" wide with 100/800=0,125" pixel width. The gap between pixel will barely visible from 10 feet distance viewing, I think.

The lamp, lens etc: My thinking is using OHP unit with: 24 volts/250 watts halogen lamp. If this type of lamp not bright enough, I'll try to use 100 wats Xenon bulb car light. http://www.thaistanley.com/en/news/nw_02.htm

300 mm dia. lens. The bad point of OHP is they use only 1 lens mostly, so if you want to ajust the screen size, you should move the projector back and forth. Is it possible to add 1 convex lens at front of it as a zoom lens ?

to protect LCD panel from excessive heat I'll add fan between OHP glass and the LCD. Adding clear laminated plastic to prevent infrared radiation thru the glass might be help. http://www.v-kool-usa.com/

That's all in my mind till now, but I have 2 questions: With LCD display monitor I have no problem connected it to my PC via VGA connector (I run DVD from PC), but is it possible hooking up the PC to notebook monitor? somebody can help me for this setup? Second question is: instead of rip out back of LCD display so we can use the LCD panel as a transmissive panel and the light will pass thru it to the lens and projected to the screen, can we just shut off the backlit of the LCD display and set it up as opaque projector? Mike Langway wrote the same setup: Once the flaurescent backlight has been removed we replace it with a mirror directly behind the LCD then bounce the light off of it at a 45 degree angle and put all lenses after the LCD it should work. It's more complicated than originally expected, but may be an economic solution. I know that there are reflective LCD projectors.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 22, 2001.

Anybody ever tried this setup? inform us please.

see you.

-- gwidijanto (gwidijanto@hotmail.com), November 09, 2001.

OOps, sorry, rushin around, forgot to paste these into last post.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci212870,00.html

http://www.montest.com/mon-app2.html

http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/index.pl?Page=laptops/index.html

Have a great weekend all.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 09, 2001.

I hope so! To my mind, what you've said is spot on. Looks like we'll all be going out to buy 7" widescreens then!

A quick couple of ideas to throw into the melting pot:

If you're using a VGA screen, and don't mind investing slightly more you could look into a computer based scaler/interpolator. Some of the AV sites mention these sort of utilities, which act to smooth each frame out where there is motion noise etc. For examples look at http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net - food for thought.

On a similar subject, there's a 32" Philips widescreen TV with 100HZ screen and what they call - "Natural Motion". This is a very clever bit of circuitry that looks at two frames of video and fills in the gap with more frames that it guesses to bring it up to 100HZ. The effect is fantastic for movies with loads of motion (eg. Star Wars) and would be the perfect partner to the LCD Projector!

That's probably worth a thread on its own, but I though I'd mention it as it's kinda related to the refresh rates we were talking about.

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 09, 2001.

Eurika!!!

Check this out; My undertsanding is that the signal itself is interlaced or non-interlaced, combining this with your understanding that LCDs address all pixcells at once, if the signal is interlaced (lets call "1,3,5,7" feild a & "2,4,6,8" feild b) the first full image received by the LCD is feild a (640x240 for NTSC). FORGET THE VGA CAPABLE MONITOR FOR THE MOMENT. Therefore an NTSC signal can be displayed on a 640x240 TFT LCD monitor with no loss of resolution.

FRAME 1- feild a, FRAME 1- feild b, FRAME 2- feild 1, FRAME 2- feild 2, etc.................

So for any interlaced video signal on a non VGA monitor The vertical resolution we need will be only half of what we expect (NTSC expected 640x480, for non VGA LCD 640x240 is same).

Now for a VGA monitor; Using the video input (RCA, S-vhs, etc...) the signal is put thru an internal scaler and displayed. FRAME 1- Feild a + Feild b, FRAME 2- Feild a + Feild b, etc....

Using the VGA input w/ scan doubler results, same as above.

Using the VGA input w/out a scan doubler, the VGA input would expect a frame of 640x480 but recieve a feild of 640x240. I think that this would have to result in a squished image, but could also result in the each feild being shown with a spread.

CHECK MY WORK for me you guys this is pretty complex stuff. But if I am right this answers the CAR MONITOR question we were grapling with earlier, it supports the need for a scan doubler only when feeding a video signal into the VGA port, and it means many of the monitors I and others have been passing up could give very acceptable results.

It should also be noted that this stuff can only be applied for sure to TFT LCDs, it may be true of others but our research and conjecture has been on TFTs.

I think were really getting there on this, Graham.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 09, 2001.

All in a day's work, Mike!

I've been reading about scan doubling (and progressive DVDs) and drawn a few more points about how it all fits together (for those wondering about scan rates and stuff):-

All video sources for NTSC will natively send lines 1,3,5,7... and then lines 2,4,6,8... to the screen. A progressive DVD or a scan doubler step in here to cache the odd and even lines and then send them all as one update. This is especially useful for CRT projectors as they scan each line like a television - gaps at 100" are quite pronounced! My understanding of LCDs is that the pixels are all addressed at once - so some form of a buffer is used to 'cache' the scan each time, therefore making the doubler of less use.

This may go some way to explaining the seemingly poor virtical resolution of some video-only panels, as normal CRT monitors/TVs only truly show half the picture (and therefore half the number of lines) at any one time.

Again - just my interpretation, so feel free to flame if anyone knows better!

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 09, 2001.

Sounds like you may be right about the scan doubler thing, makes sense to me anyway. Now that you mention it I have been looking at my TV and some rear projection TVs and my image is better than most as far as resolution, especially with DVDs. Also if I look closley at the pixcell pattern on the screen it doesn't look like there is enough space for it to be skipping rows. However so as not to cause any confusion it should be pointed out that, this is scan doubling occurring within the LCD Panel, and would only apply to a commercial LCD panel or a VGA capable home built (and with the home built VGA panel a scan doubler may be required). This does not mean that just any LCD panel is going to have scan doubling as an automatic feature.

Also for my commercial LCD there is a benefit to going in through the VGA port, not all capabilities of the LCD panel can be utilised by the video input (i.e. Zoom feature etc..). Also now that I think about it an internal scan doubling in the panel would only be applicable to the RCA or S-VHS inputs (this means if your going to use a VGA input you can benefit from the scan doubler)why would the scan doubler apply to a signal which should already be VGA. I will probably not acheive better, but the same resolution, but I will be going in through the VGA port. Going through the VGA port will not only give me access to the extra features of the panel but the other benefit is that I will now be able to come from the s-vhs port rather than an RCA port. What about an S-vhs converter you say, well converting s-vhs to RCA you loose the benefits of the s-vhs signal but converting from s-vhs to VGA as I unnderstand it I will retain the benefits of the S-vhs signal.

Thanks for getting my brain going this morning Graham. Knowledge comes from discussion & debate, and I find your opinions and comments of great value.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 09, 2001.

Cool idea - I like the reindeer idea, especially as I know what people are like around christmas time with decorating their houses!

If I recall - here in the UK Coca Cola hired St Pauls Cathedral as a projector screen and projected the 'coke' logo onto the dome one night for all of London to see!

Anyway, off topic there a little I know...

On the topic of scan doubling - I'm sure most LCD drivers will do a form of video scaling to match the panel's resolution (otherwise you'd have a picture either too big or too small) With this in mind, the vertical resolution of the image is scaled from 400 lines (NTSC) to the v.res. of the panel. The number of lines for PAL is different to NTSC and panels that can switch between the two will therefore already have a scaler.

Scan doublers are only really useful for use with CRT projectors as these physically miss every other line. I don't think we could claim that doubling the lines prior to the signal going to the LCD's driver will give twice the resolution - they would be scaled to fit anyway.

Please feel free to tell me to shut up if I'm talking out of my elbow!

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 08, 2001.

Graham, As far as the thingy to make the aspect ratio right (stretch 4:3 to 16:9) I don't think its needed. The monitor is supposed to have a manual switch for different "zooms" I beleive it can be told 4:3, 16:9, or letterbox. Your probably right about the strobe thing, it will at least be more complex than I thought. I had't considered the refresh rates and how they might effect it. But I think it has potential and I think I'll play wth it a bit when I get the chance. I have had some limited experience with animation and digital video editing, and my thinking is that when we compressed video we chose frame rates like 15 fps or 30 fps, now I don't know how refresh would come into play, but I'm thinking if 15 fps is enough frames per second to show smooth animation & The LCD Panel shows what appears to be uninterupted smooth video then wouldnt 15 flashes per second simply do a sort of downsampling that might be acceptable to the human eye?(Sorry Sentance, if you can call it that, is so long, if I was talking I would have forgotten to breathe)

Something to think about anyway. Graham have you done any prototyping on this stuff yet.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 08, 2001.

Mike,

Cheers for the web addy, I looked at the 7" widescreen and it looks impressive (for my car at least!) What you'd need in conjunction with this is a processing box that can stretch a 4:3 image to fill the screen. This doesn't look as bad as it sounds either, and would make sure we're utilising the whole screen. I wonder how the panel knows you're sending a 16:9 image instead of a 4:3 one?

I'd like to see a projector made from one of these panels to gauge the effect of the virtical resolution. I've got a 5.6" Alpine monitor in my car, and feeding it a PAL signal looks fine but I'm sure it's not all that clever in virtical resolution.

I think you'd have to make the strobe a LOT faster than 24 frames/second - The newer widescreen TVs have a 100HZ refresh rate which would be acceptable for the projector - any less and I think it would look too jittery. (How long can you sit at a computer monitor set to 60HZ without getting a headache?!)

Also, not sure on this point, but wouldn't having gaps in the light output by using a strobe give the impression of a lower lumunosity?

Oh yeah, the other thing I wanted to mention - I read somewhere that LCD projectors don't need scan doublers - not sure why, but it could be down to the same thing we're noticing with the virtical resolution.

Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 08, 2001.

Hey Graham, I FOUND IT AGAIN. I found the seven inch wide screen again, but I found it in only 2 places on the web, and the problem is they both list the resolution differently. One sight says it is 480 by 234 and the other says it is 1440 by 234, I don't know what the deal is.

Here is the one I want to purchase from cause they said 1440 and its $20 cheaper. I figure I'll be able to return it based on false specs if worse comes to worse. My thinking is that if its $200 the picture must be at the very least "acceptable", if it is wide screen format then doesn't the target audience have to be DVD and HDTV users.

http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/product_info.php?category=0&products_i d=1374&

(NO SPACES IN PREVIOUS URL)

The other one is at PSXaccessories.com or something like that.

Here are the specs from LIK SING (STORE NAME?);

Redant 7inch TFT Color LCD Monitor (16:9) Manufacturer: Redant Your Price $199.00 US Dollars (~199.00 US Dollar) Shipping Weight: 1.5kg Package Measures :28cm x 20.5cm x 8cm Usually ships within 24h Suggested Accessories- Redant TV Tuner (for 7inch TFT screen) Product Features High quality SHARP LCD Screen (panel made in Japan) No radiation OSD control (contrast, brightness, color) 0-180º adjustable for best viewing position Mirror screen function (flip the screen) Earphone output Perfect to play games or watch DVD movies on the road, while camping, etc. 16:9 T panel (7inch) PAL&NTSC compatible only about 800g Resolution: 1440(H) x 234(V) Color Combination RGB AV input Stereo Speaker Output Built in (small) speakers Battery slot for the upcoming battery pack Description Here comes a great high quality LCD screen (7inch, 16:9 display) featuring OSD control,mirror screen function, Earphone output and a 0-180º adjustable display. Play games or watch DVDs on this small 16:9 unit. Update (11 October 2001): We've added to images to show where to find the switches to change between PAL and NTSC and also mirror horizontal or vertical. Furthermore there are two undocumented small adjusting screws to improve the picture quality.

What's in the box 7inch TFT screen 110V power supply (output DC 12V, 650mA, center point is negative)

I think this could be a good one.

It's great to see so many people getting involved in this thing!!!

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 08, 2001.

Hey tasha & Tony welcome aboard, Tasha- Lumens were for a long time a non standardised unit so you want an ANSI Lumen rating, ANSI is a standardised unit and it is recomended that you have at least 4000 ANSI Lumens for a comercial grade LCD panel, mine is 4000 lumens that I use with my commercial LCD Panel. I would be interested in some more info on the light source you are talking about though, I am not familiar with them.

Tony, My first successful LCD projector was based on a 2.5 inch portable TV from rad shack that was NOT TFT. It was assembled by gutting the slide changer mechanism in a slide projector and putting LCD right in there. I only had a few lenses to experiment with at the time. The resolution was awful, Hexagonal screen door effect, and terrible trails. The trails were caused by the poor redraw rate of the LCD, if you use a TFT type LCD (DLP supposed to be good to, but I'm not sure)you should overcome that problem. A regular NTSC/Composite Video signal is 640x480 interlaced, VGA is 640x480 non interlaced.

Progressive scan, as I understand it is what we are acheiving with the VGA box (In Theory). So progressive scan should cover it for you but only for DVDs. The thing to understand is that you must have a VGA capable monitor to get the true bennefits of this, a regular TV isn't capable of showing you NON-interlaced video.

The successful unit I have now is actually a commercial LCD Panel made for projecting computor data & video. 640x480 interlaced picture is great at 60"x80", pixcells visible (you have to get up close to the screen to see them clearly 1/16"x1/16"), I do get a moire effect on the edges of high contrast or intricate details (I'm hoping that I will get rid of that with scan doubler, for now I take the projector slightly out of focus). My image is nice and bright watchable with 60 watt bulb on in the small room I'm in. I do have to have the contrast pumped up, and I get a slight interferance effect when a bright white image appear w/ more than 75% coverage (this may be due to my wireless connection of the video source).

Hope this helps.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 07, 2001.

Graham, I came across it the other day on a sight that had about 5 different playstation portable LCDs, and like a bone head I have lost the URL. But the product exists and I will begin hunting it down again soon. From what I remember reading it is 16:9 aspect ratio with a resolution of something like 1024 x 400 not sure on that. But I do know that the horizontal resolution was what I considered to be pretty high and the vertical resolution number was way lower than the number I would have expected (eg. 1024 x 768). I'm not entirely certain I understand the way they are rating these new monitors but I think they are using the same pixel space for both feilds of each frame which would mean that to reproduce an NTSC picture (640x480) without a noticeable loss of resolution, you would only need 640x240 resolution on the monitor. I may be way off on this, but I haven't had a lot of luck researching it.

If I can find the darn thing again (I thought it was way too expensive for my needs when I first came across it). The plan is to go ahead and buy it, look at it under a magnifying glass, verify that it will be possible to move the driver board out of the way, and go. If it really really sucks I'll send it back before breaking the warranty, if I get stuck with it, I've been interested in getting a video set-up for my jeep and this will be the start of that.

I'll let you know as soon as I can locate the URL again.

The work light is going to be one of about 6 I was looking at, at home depot, runs around $50. The ones I saw were 500 watt halogen tubes in rectangular housing and I think they should work pretty good if the light can be dispersed well enough before the LCD, may end up with bright bar across middle and dim upper and lower edges.

Has anybody heard from Laut Tran, I was looking forward to some updates on his project? I know he's working on a better light source and I'm curious as to what ideas he has come up with.

Is anybody prototyping yet besides Laut Tran and myself?

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 06, 2001.

Can you post a URL of somewhere online you plan to purchase the widescreen panel?

Do you have any more specs on it, (virtical resolution namely)?

Cheers,

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), November 06, 2001.

I plan to use as much of the product to be modified as possible, eg. power source, LCD Driver, LCD, Fan if included. If no fan I will try to use one that can utilise the power source of either the projection light, or the LCD Unit.

Well I've changed course slightly again, at this point I'm looking at possably using a 7" widescreen format TFT LCD, it costs about $220, so I am holding off a bit on that part.

Somebody pointed out to me that with a brighter light source, I could turn down my bright and contrast a bit and get truer color reproduction. Also I've been interested in making the whole unit more portable. So my new plan is to build a new projection unit for my commercial LCD panel and add scan doubler and glass bead impregnated screen at 60" x 80". I will build in such a way as to use this unit for the homemade LCD panel, when ready to build. Also I have a possability of getting ahold of a multiplexer pretty cheap if I do I will be experimenting with this as well. The multiplexer will #1- Allow me to use 2 recivers or video sources for PIP display #2 allow me to split screen and display up to 4 video sources at once. I'm not sure what the resolution will be like thru it though, it is designed for a CCTV system.

I plan to try to use a 500W work light, by modifying its safety cage to be a light block, and lense mount for fresnel w/ a big CPU Fan blowing air through vents. I think that this in combination with the built in fan on the commercial LCD panel will be cool enough. W/ everything strapped together, it should be much more portable and the bonus is that the work light has a tripod stand, diffusing lense, and can be adjusted to many angles. I plan to use the upper arm & lenses of an old overhead projector.

I already have two freinds lined up to finance 2 new systems after the holiday season, one will be projected on the wall of a body shop and will require suspending the projector from a high cieling, this could present some interesting problems w/ controlling the unit and the angle and focus.

By the way if you have a "keystone problem" (this is when your projected image gets smaller at the bottom, caused by angle of mirror) you can fix it by tilting the whole plane of your screen.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 06, 2001.

Hey everybody, Had some time on my hands so I researched VGA conversion a bit. Here are a bunch of pages dealing with a bunch of quality levels of the product. These are for converting to VGA output from various inputs, some do scan doubling some don't.

One interesting thing I learned today is that DREAMCAST CONVERTERS WILL NOT SUIT OUR PURPOSES, dreamcast converters are not really converters they simply tell the dreamcast to output in VGA mode, the dreamcast can already do this internally.

The "Cheese Box" seems to be the simplest and most economic solution, but some of these boxes do some wild stuff.

Redant Multi-Use VGA Box (Has S-vhs & RCA inputs) http://www.projectk.com/vga/Multi-use-vga-box.htm

Redant VGA Box http://www.insideps2games.com/hardware/redantvgabox/ http://ps2.ign.com/hardware/324.html

VGA Box w/ video inputs (maker Unknown) http://shop.store.yahoo.com/baysoftgames/vgabox1.html http://shop.store.yahoo.com/a-sonic/vgaboxmulcon.html http://www.projectk.com/vga/multi_use_vga_box.htm

Micomsoft's X-RGB-2 (Expensive, very informative review, sounds worth the extra) http://www.atarilabs.com/meat/2001/0120_XRGB2.shtml

Calrad 40-811 (Expensive, but does conversions every which way you can imagine) http://www.starkelectronic.com/cal811.htm

GoVideo (composite video to VGA) http://www.allthings.com.au/Monitors/videotovga.htm

TVB 200 http://www.hallresearch.com/hall/converters.htm

Micronica ATV 3000 http://micronica.com.au/catalog/atv3000/index.htm

VGA 801 (This one is designed fro CCTV but could be used) http://www.gelectronics.com/video.html

VGA Theatre http://www.dvdirect.com/shop/product.asp?sku=TVO5035 CheeseBox http://www.dvdirect.com/shop/product.asp?sku=TVO5034

TV Genie by AverMedia (includes TV tuner, may not scan double?) http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-1110-404-126112.html

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), November 01, 2001.

Hey, evrybody here is the URL for the "Cheese Box" I have been talking about; http://www.tvone.com/vd-300.htm

And by the way a correction to previous posts, the playstation monitor I failed with is not "IntelPlay" as I had thought but "InTec".

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 31, 2001.

I've been looking at these car monitors too, and an HDTV res playstation monitor. From what I can figure out NTSC signal or composite video signal are interlaced, this would seem to mean that when we look at a regular TV 640x480 we truly only see 640x240 at a time. What I am trying to figure out is w/ these car monitors are they rated at say 640x240 (4:3)because they are just being honest w/ us about the visible resolution or maybe do they take and play feild a and then feild b of a frame in a smaller area w/out really losing resolution but just shifting the second feild up to play on the same pixcel area as the first feild. I think it would be worth checking one out under a magnifying glass at least, and possibly moching one up as projector panel. It seems to me that these car monitors that are advertising 16:9 ratio would be very disapointing to the consumer set they address if they were really only half vertical resolution.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 31, 2001.

Jazz, I don't think the vertical resolution is adequate. Considering you're projecting 4' diagonally, geometry shows that your screen will be (3 * (4/5) ) feet or 28.8 inches tall. This means that your pixels will be about 1/8th of an inch tall. The size of the pixels might not seem that bad, but compound that onto the loss of detail resulting from squeezing the screen into 224 pixels and I can assure you it will look pretty bad. (Don't even think about reading text!)

I hope my math is right.

-- Jeff Min (jeffmin@REMOVE-SPAM.uclink.berkeley.edu), October 30, 2001.

Mitch, Be wary of that Reveal TV tuner. I have one and have had nothing but trouble with it. First, it was hard to find drivers for it. Second, one user stated that it took him weeks to finally figure out how to get a picture. Others simply gave up and sold theirs. From what I've heard it will work best with Windows 3.11 since there is very little support for the new operating systems. If you can figure it out then let me know.

There are alot of 5" AUTOMOBILE TFT LCD TV MONITORS on Ebay. They sell for about $120 and have a resolution of 640x224. Are these not good enough if I only want to project a picture about 4' across?

-- Jazz (jazzario@yahoo.ca), October 30, 2001.

Unfortuantely, the Dreamcast VGA box only changes the hz to 31, it does not double the lines. There is another product out there called a VGA BOX, but I'm not sure it doubles lines either. I found a REVEAL TV Tuner card that can hadle NTSC input, but I don't know anything about it, other than it is $13 on eBay.

Has anyone used the TVOne Cheese Video Box before? Does it actually work?

-- Mitch (mk@freeideas.org), October 30, 2001.

Yes "cheese Box" will work with any VGA(640x480)input, and you can chain it to a computer and choose video/data input from "cheese box".

I have two sights URLs on my system will try to post tommorrow when I get back there.

I think you might have a good idea w/ the dreamcast converter, although I expect that for that cheap it does not "scan double". What you need to do is go to google or your favorite search engine and do a search for / dreamcast, pin-outs, diagram. You will have to find the composite video signal and composit video ground within the dreamcast plug (if they exist, could be RGB system, or s-vhs type thing) then chop off the plug and hook up your RCA input to the VidComp & vidcomp ground). If it is not set up with composite video signals conversion still possible but probably much more complicated.

If you will find pin-out diagram and point me to it I will be happy to take a look at it.

PS.- Dreamcast may have an S-vhs output, if so does your adapter plug thru this, if so no conversion would be necessary to input S-VHS and an SVHS-RCA converter can be purchased at radio shack for about $25.

Keep those great ideas rollin in man!!!!

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 29, 2001.

Will the 'cheese box' idea work with 640x480? Where does one get/build a cheese box?

I saw that eBay has a whole bunch of Dreamcast to VGA conversion boxes for $10. I wonder if those could be modified?

-- Mitch (mk@freeideas.org), October 29, 2001.

Hey Mitch, The "Cheese Box" I have been talking about in previous entries, has S- VHS and RCA inputs w/ VGA outputs and doubles the scan so, yes if you get an LCD w/ VGA input you could both adapt to take RCA and S-vhs inputs and do scan doubling. Scan doubling means that it takes the composite video input (RCA or S-VHS) which is interlaced video (every other scan line for 2 feilds of each frame) and de-interlace it (every scan line visible for every frame) this should also effectivley double your verticle resolution. If you do this w/ an 800 x 600 panel you would have extremely close to HDTV resolution. Of course if the aspect ratio is 4:3 (standard monitor or NTSC video) than for HDTV and Letterbox you will get the black bars top & bottom, so your pixel depth will be a little less than HDTV on HDTV formatted signals.

THIS IS AN EXCELLENT WAY TO GO IF REASONABLE PRICE ON PANEL!!!

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 29, 2001.

Have a look at this page for bulbs (especially this one as it claims 4800ANSI lumens)

http://www.bulbs.com/products/product_detail.asp? page=products&inventory=8967

Can anyone advise as to required wiring? (and what's a ballast?)

Cheers, Graham

-- Graham Shroll (graham@painlesswebdesign.com), October 29, 2001.

Hey, everybody It's good to be able to get back on the board, I have no news yet. Will probably not have funds for 2nd experiment for a couple of weeks. Am purchasing scan doubler soon and I will let you know the results of combining that with the commercial LCD panel.

According to the research I've been doing, if we could find an 800x600 LCD with a VGA input and add a scan doubler we could do this project w/ HDTV QUALITY IMAGE. However I estimate the total cost of doing it with an overhead projector to be around $350-$400, but succsesful, it would be able to create an image up to 9 or 10 feet wide at HDTV resolution. Compared to the upwards of $5,000 price of anything even comparable I think it would be worth it.

Laut Tran, I'm really glad to hear you took the bull by the horns and have brought us some success, I will be eagerly awaiting your next post, keep up the good work.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 26, 2001.

Yeah Mike, the picture is look good more than 100"TV (with the bulb 50 watts). Don't try the portable TV 2.5" because it too small not good as 5".I will look for the good bulb this weekend and let you know. My project not build with overhead projector so you can save more than hundred bucks. I just use the full page len 2X x 2 (at Office Max. so wait for me this weekend.

-- luat Tran (luattran25@hotmail.com), October 25, 2001.

PSone monitor I bougth at Gamestop store, you can visit at http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=801307&Section=#PROD

-- luat Tran (luattran25@hotmail.com), October 25, 2001.

Laut Tran, Forgot to mention, the bulb my overhead projector uses is 82 Volt 360 Watt, it actually calls for 82 Volt 300 Watt (Rated 3000 ANSI Lumens) but the bulb is twice the price, they both fit, and I figure for safety the wires were probably rated a good deal above the recomended wattage.

Thought that it might be helpful to give you a better idea what to look for in a lamp. If you think its worth it you can get an Apollo Concept Overhead Projector from Staple at around $160. Hows your picture look good resolution?

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 23, 2001.

Laut Tran, Hey that is great. What is the brand name, where can I get one, how much? You must be using a different model than mine and I'd really like to have one. Is it the round one, is it sold independantly. The one I was using is the "IntelPlay" 3rd party unit (square fold out with room for battery pack and minigame). PLEASE HELP ME OUT, POST US A SIGHT WHERE WE CAN BUY THESE OR AT LEAST, ALL MODEL AND MAKE INFO!!!

And by the way don't be too concerned about your english, non of us write very well either.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 23, 2001.

BAD NEWS!!!

Finished disassembling PS1 Monitor (IntelPlay 3rd paty monitor) This LCD Unit will not be suitable for our needs, I may be able in future to make it work, but will need special tools for working with ribbon cables. The monitor (and I couldn't see this until almost completely dissassembled) has 2 ribbons to the vertical and 2 ribbons to the horrizontal (only one of 5 I've worked with that are like this) This means that in order to get the driver board out of the way One would have to dissconect and extend at least two ribbons).

So the Hunt is on we need to find an affordable, TFT type LCD, with at least 640x480 resolution 800x600 is preferable. It should be 12" or less diagonally, backlit, and have RCA/VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA inputs.

Someone asked about how to evenly distribute the light to LCD; The overhead uses a fresnel in the stage before the LCD I beleive we could use the page magnifiers we were using for 100"TV to disperse light evenly.

OK, I'm planning on proceeding to improve resolution of my commercial LCD in hopes we may be able to apply this knowledge to our project. Here is why VGA or other computer type input for our LCD would be best; I'm going to purchase something called a "Cheese Box" this device converts S-VHS input to VGA output and at the same time does "scan doubling". Composite video signals do what they call interlacing on the screen, so that basically every other line of resolution appears on screen alternatly. The scan doubler holds one frame in memory and plays back all the scan lines at once, so basically the frequency is doubled and you see every scan line at once for each frame, this should improve the resolution tremendously.

---- On dissassembling the non-functioning overhead projector I discovered 2 interesting things, 1. The fresnel was acrylic not glass as I had expected. 2. the fresnel on the particular unit I'm messing with is actually 2 fresnels face to face with groove inward.

OK, mini TVs are possable candidates, but we definately want TFT type, regular LCDs have poor resolution and slow redraw. Laptops are a possability but I think we'll have to do a lot of reseach to figure how to get the video feed in if there are no external inputs(this will probably also require construction of CoDec). "Car Tvs" these could be a good possability, however the ones I've seen list resolutions like 640x240, now in my book thats only half vertical resolution, but maybe they are rated that way because of interlacing, I don't know. I think our best bet will come from surplus and/or industrial type LCD monitors (rack mount, kit, no casing etc...)

One of the hotlinks I posted earlier was to a forum where a guy has been developing a cluster of White LEDs to use as light source. I thought this was very interesting, after having studied the way that laser video displays work I think I've come up with another aproach to this. I'm trying to experiment with using 2 mirrors that spin on perpendicular axis with a single Bright White LED as source. The Idea is to use scan method for light source although I imagine I will have to be able to have a scan rate about twice as fast as the monitor scan rate, I just think this will be a fun challenge.

Hang in there evrybody I'm sure we'll find a good LCD to use soon.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 22, 2001.

WE ARE NOT ALONE!!!!

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Update on current Commercial LCD panel;

I found out that since panel is designed for data/video I have VGA inputs, while searching for plans to make a S-video to VGA converter (the idea was that I might benefit from my S-video output, but s-video to RCA would yeild no improvement) I found out that the converter not only takes advantage of the s-videos benefits it also does scan doubling. This means that once I have this in place my current highly acceptable image resolution will be abig step closer to HDTV quality.

So if any of you out there can get a hold of a 10" or less LCD monitor with VGA (SVGA, XGA, SXGA inputs and have an S-video source) can look forward to an even more incredible projector.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 19, 2001.

Aquired non-functioning Overhead projector, planning to replace light source add stronger fan, clean-up and use for LCD project base. Because of the order of experiments I have planned I think that I will proceed with making a complete LCD panel with fan & light masking that can be used with any overhead projector. Investigating cooler and lighter light source so that my next level will be to put together a single portable unit.

Should have more interesting news next week.

Also I have made one more interesting observation about the commercial LCD panel I'm currently using. Conventional 3D (cardboard/celophane glasses) does not work well through an LCD projector. I believe after having thought about it for a while, that no LCD projector could. The reason being that 3D glasses of this nature utilize sperate polerization for each eye to allow stereoscopic view which allows us to percieve "depth", the reason LCD projector and for that matter LCD TVs can't accuratly portray the effect is because the LCD panel "sandwich" has at least one layer of polerising film, thus the effect is lost in the translation. So there is at leats one benefit to a CRT based projector over LCD.

Please note that an IMAX type of 3D experiance is not only possible with LCD projector, but is awsome when viewed at 100"diagonaly.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 18, 2001.

Well, that's actually somewhat of an older post to get us rolling. "It's as bright as a rear projection" is a bit of an overstatement, I had just been working for quite a long time on another project, and the difference was increadible. The Commercial LCD panel I am currently using is great, and can be watched with a reading light (60W)on in the room, without loss of image quality. If you set up two rooms with the same amount of low ambient light I'd take mine anyday and save the $5,000 difference in price.

Unfortunately I was temporarily derailed last weekend so have no new news, on project LCD. But I have made a few observations about the current Panel I'm using that should give evryone an idea of what to expect in our project.

1. This is an optical magnification of a 640x480 (NTSC standard resolution) LCD Panel, as such pixels do become visible. The commercial one is projecting a 100" image from about 15' foot distance starting with a 8 3/4" diagonal LCD panel I have measured the pixcels on screen at 1/16" square. When sharply focused this effect is somewhat degrading to the image however, if the Projector is taken slightly out of focus we acheive an effect similar to "anti-aliasing" which smooths the image and makes it look great.

2. Overhead projector replacement bulbs are too expensive for the most part, so if your going to buy an overhead for your version. Check on availability and price of bulbs, and other replacement parts.

3. The commercial LCD has an onboard fan of it's own and ours will need one as well, and possably a heat-sink.

4. Unexpected Effect; this may not apply to the project LCD unknown as yet; On my commercial system w/ my particular cable service "protected" pay channels (HBO etc..) display a black strip down the left side of screen, also macrovision (a copy protection standard for video)causes proffesionally recorded DVDs and VHSs to display a black bar on bottom edge of screen w/ colored blocks in it. This effect can be easily worked around.

5.Heres the good stuff, I have played DVDs in Letterbox and HDTV format (size rato not resolution) and because of the enormous size of our image at NTSC 4:3 ratio both of these formats also look pretty darn good.

6.The new "Star Wars DVD" cntains a set of audio and video optimising tests and adjustments, that really work fantastic, I just used them, and I'm gettin happy.

There's some food for thaught.

Thanks to Chance for setting this site up! Thanks to Chris and Josh for their offers to do the same!

Lets get some discussions rolling I know you guys probably already have Ideas squirting out your pores as well.

This is gonna be a great project with very rewarding results, and I am apsolutly confident that any of our freinds who have buit the WEBFAMOUS 100"TV will be apsolutly blown away by this thing.

KEEP IT FREE!!!

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 17, 2001.

Somebody gave me a free LCD data projection panel with a straight video input. I have this set up on a 3000 lumen overhead projector, watching 100" picture as bright as a rear projection TV. I plan to build a miniature version of this same thing from a playstation portable LCD monitor I have and a couple fans for heat control, and same Lamp my overhead projector currently uses. I'll try to document well and if anyone's interested I expect it to be able to produce at least a 75" image as bright as or comparable to rear projection and cost under $250 in parts.

-- Mike Langway (m_langway@bigfoot.com), October 15, 2001.