I am fairly new to this goats business. I have a 7 month old nubian goat(Nellie) and a 7 month old white nubian(Daisy). I believe she might be a mix. When should I breed my goats? Daisy is a little on the small side. How many pounds should they be when you breed? I also heard that if you do not breed the first year they will not be as productive. Is this true?

Now my second question. A couple of months ago, the neighbors dog got in our pasture and killed one of my ramboulliet lamb. I was really looking forward to shearing her in the spring. You see I spin wool. We caught their dog in the act. Plus the dogs owner was there to witness part of it. They paid us $40.00 for the lamb, which is not half of what she was worth to me. You see she was my baby. We had bottle feed her. She was the most friendly thing, that was probably why she was an easy target. They said they would get rid of their dog. But to this day I still see their dog roaming around. I am so worried it will attack again. If it was anyone elses dog I would just shoot him when he tried again. But you see the owner is a sheriff deputy. What is my options? Is it legal to shoot a dog if it is after my animals? I know farmers laws and legal laws are different. Is my Navajo churros next? HELP PLEASE!!

-- Toni in Utah (tmevans66@hotmail.com), October 19, 2001

Answers

is it legal? Depends on who is on the bench at the time. Id talk to the deputy, or even the sherrif,, and explain that the 40 bucks wasnt even half of what the sheep was worth,, is he doesnt want to part with more, , take him to court. He has already admitted blame for paying you in the first place, so getting more shouldnt be a problem

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), October 19, 2001.

Check NOW with you local posecuting attourney. Find out the laws regarding protecting your livestock. I don't know the lay of the land where you are but there is always the option of Shoot, Shovel, and Shutup. Just shoot the damn thing, bury it descretly, and never talk about it again. If asked, tell them you haven't seen the dog lately. I had to employ SSS on a coyote dog that would run deer on my farm. Figured if it couldn't tell the difference between a deer and a coyote, he wasn't much good anyway. By the way, I love dogs, we have five, but they are not allowed to run free. The only thing they can kill is a guinea that makes the mistake of coming through the fence. So far, only one has. All the other livestock around us is bigger than the dogs.

-- Rickstir (rpowell@email.ccis.edu), October 19, 2001.

I agree, the dog may need to be shot. And I too love dogs...have 20 in our rescue kennel. But I'd shoot anything that killed or hurt my other animals, especially if you can't trust the owner to take care of it.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), October 19, 2001.

Toni, First, your little doelings should weigh at least 70 pounds and look good. A lot of goat breeders wait until the does are a year old or better. Then, there are those who say to breed right away.. If you are not sure about the size, you can wait untul Feb. or March and breed them. Make sure they are dewormed and have their immunizations prior to breeding. And remember, they are still growing as well as making babies and feed them enough for both. About the neighbors dog. go ahead and shoot it, if it comes back on your property, bury it and say nothing. If the guy just lets it run loose he is being very irresponsible, and something will happen to it. Don't tell him about either, if you are as bad at lying as I am, have someone get rid of the carcass so you can honestly say you have no idea where it went to. Oh I love dogs too, and do not let my dogs run loose.

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), October 19, 2001.

Is the sheriff elected? Elected officials are real sensitive to controlling negative exposure. Call the sheriff and explain the situation. If the sheriff won't do anything, write a letter to the editor.

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), October 19, 2001.

Let your babies, Nellie and Daisy grow up before you breed them. If you breed them this young you could have kidding problems. Breeding them next late summer/fall will make them nearly 2, mature does when they kid. With you being new I simply don't reccommend breeding young since it takes a great deal of nutritional knowledge, not enough energy with to small a body size and ketosis, milk fever or calcium problems will arise at the end of pregnancy. The small amount of milk you will get from this young of doe isn't near what you will get if you wait and let them kid at 2. We don't breed anything here until they are at least 100 pounds, and many of our does are bred to kid at 2, and they are 135 pounds at breeding. I won't breed to customers or 4H kids young does, because I don't want to be the one called in the middle of the night with kidding problems. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), October 19, 2001.

I bred my first two does at seven months(out of desperation, really, because another doe had kidded unexpectedly and I had no place to put the young buck;) I DONT recommend it. Both girls had difficulty kidding, and the book I was going by wasn't all that accurate as to proper positioning of the kid(read:not as helpful as it might have been.) The does I bred at 10 months did fine.

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), October 19, 2001.

Regarding the dog: My advice is to speak with the sheriff about the situation AND find out if your state or county has a leash law. Here it is illegal to allow your dog to roam on others property. Then, wait awhile to see what if anything happens. After a time goes by and the dog is on your land,do the SSS thing. I love my dog, but he stays on our land and if he doesn't, he get punished.

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), October 19, 2001.

If the neighbor or friend won't keep the dog from roaming on your place, call the animal control people (dog warden) and have them pick up the dog. They will fine and notify the offenders and if they do not claim the dog and pay the fines, plus full restitution to you, they dog will be put to sleep.

This is a far more ethical and humane resolution that blasting the dog yourself, you might miss a good clean shot and the dog suffer needless agony before it dies. Plus the owner might finally realize the effects of their ignorance regarding the lease laws, and change their attitude and tie or confine the dog.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), October 19, 2001.

I have a neighbor who has the potential to be the neighbor from hell. They have never trained their dogs and seem surprised that their dogs don't know they shouldn't be by me. She even got mad at me for yelling at her dog to go home as the dog is barking at me in my own driveway. I try not to complain too much because if my animals ever get out...

By the way, the SSS means "shoot, shovel and shutup"

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), October 19, 2001.

Toni, I've read that it is best to wait until the does have reached 70% of their adult size before breeding. This seems the most logical since different breeds will present different weights and even a feed program may make a difference. My Boer-Togg does grow so fast they breed and kid easily when bred at 7 months, but I would never have done that when I was raising pureblood Alpines.

As for the dog problem.... here in rural Nevada, I have the right to shoot and kill a dog if it is *on* my property. And even call the owners and tell them they have to pick up their garbage! But I would be responsible for all vet charges and other damages to the owner if I shot the dog and it returned home. Getting accurate information about your laws is imparitive.

-- D T Warburton (warking@cccomm.net), October 19, 2001.

Toni, this is just a PS on breeding your 2 doelings. if they were my does, I would wait until next summer or fall. I have heard all the opinions about wasting valuable production time, and losing a years worth of milk, etc. But a tiny first freshener doesn't give that much milk and I think they do not reach their full growth. I like big tall big barrelled Nubians, so it is just a personal opinion. It will give you more time to get them accustomed to things like the milk stand and being touched and clipped and hooves trimmed too.

-- karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), October 19, 2001.

Get a restraining order on the dog if you can. File a complant that the dog kill one of your animals and the owner gave you 40.oo for your animal and said he would get rid of the dog and he did not! You feel you and your animals safty is at risk and if the amimal comes on your property again you have a legal right to shoot it!.

-- Teresa (c3ranch@socket.net), October 19, 2001.

I agree with the thoughts on NOT breeding too soon. I experienced this the hard way by accidental breedings to some of our Feb doe kids. Although they did well, guess we were lucky, we did loose one last yr to a hard kidding and the vet was unavailable. I also can say from experience that they DO better waiting until they are almost 2 yrs old. You won't loose production either. My counterparts in the commercial dairy business will say to breed them as you are wasting income, well, I just don't agree.Yeah, wasting income, with the cost of loosing the doe and the kids!

As for the dog, use the SSS method! Or get a livestock guard dog, ours rips into the neighbors dogs if they even think about visiting. One neighbor visited and his dog followed, well ole' Furby who is part miramma/komondor just tore into him, almost dang near killed him.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), October 20, 2001.

We use the SSS method also if they are caught red-handed. Roamers are trapped and taken to the pound. Known dogs are returned & have to listen to my "-itching". I will not have ANYTHING~mine or anyone's else's that will harm something that is confined here in their own yard. No exceptions!

As for breeding~better late than early. I wait till after 2 to breed anything. And if they're small, I wait longer. No one has ever died from NOT BEING BRED. (altho the boy goaties would probably argue that one!)

-- Susan K. Lyons (slyons@pbtcomm.net), October 21, 2001.

Had to share this:

Last night I was headed to bed early, before 9 is early for me since i get up early, around 4:30 so if I get to bed before 10 most nights I am lucky. I got into bed last night and a few minutes later the dogs started barking. I heard the bark of a strange dog and yelled to hubby who wa swatching football to go out to check the goaties to make sure they were OK. He goes out, lo and behold, the friend of our hired hand's dog came to visit. he is about as big as our LGD, Furby had him down and was biting at his back legs, then he clutched onto his back leg and hubby said he was shaking him by that leg like a rag doll. Furby let him go finally and then the dog ran for its life down the driveway, Furby was hot on its heels, then stopped and watched him leave for home.

I will never regret getting him, he is miramma/komondor and I think its time i found another komondor, a wife for Furby. Long story about Furby when we first got him over ayr ago, but he was 6 months old at the time, didn't know what to think. Now he has grown to be an excellent guard dog.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), October 22, 2001.

If you can afford it, get a female donkey. They make great protectors for sheep and goats.

-- Rebecca (Rrebekah14@aol.com), December 23, 2001.