What has your experience been with shock collars on dogs? We took in an elderly lab who lived outside in a cage for all her life. She barks continually. I think she's deaf, and cannot even hear herself. She is driving us nuts with it. I have tried many other approaches to break this habit, but I think she is just too old and too neurotic to change without a much more severe approach. A hose sprayed in her face doesn't even faze her, and that is my cure-all to most any dog behavior problem. I'm ready to try the shock collar on her, because the barking has GOT to stop. Would like to hear your experiences and also suggestions as to where to buy one at a reasonable price. Used is fine, if anyone has one to sell. Thanks.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), October 28, 2001

Answers

Our sons use them to train their hunting dogs and they seem to work very well.

-- Barb Fischer (bfischer42@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

First off, get her ears checked. If she is hard of hearing, could be a lot of wax buildup that needs to be cleaned out. Also, could she be barking because she is lonely? Try putting another compatible dog with her. Have you tried to bring her inside your house? We had one rescue dog here for 6 years, after his owner died. He acted like yours at first, than we figured he just wanted to be with us. I put a baby gate across the kitchen door in case he had any accidents, but at his advanced age he surprised us and was totally trustworthy after a trial period. Once inside, he only barked when someone came or he heard gun shots in hunting season.Hope this helps. Kate

-- Kate henderson (kate@sheepyvalley.com), October 28, 2001.

I think I've heard of citronella spray collars. Dog barks and the collar emits a little spritz of citronella oil, the smell of which dogs dislike . Seems a little more humane than a shock collar, which I don't favor.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), October 28, 2001.

We use an electronic collar on our German Shepherd to keep him from jumping the fence into our seedling garden. The breeder we got him from lives in Tucson and uses electronic collars to keep her dogs from barking as she lives in a close neighborhood. We also use the collar for training. A lot of people don't like electronic collars, but they really work and are a good training tool. We always hold the collar against our arm to chick the strength of the zap before we put it on the dog, so we know it doesn't hurt him. We paid about $300 for ours and got it from Tri-Tronics, P. O. Box 17660, Tucson, AZ 85731 - Phone is 520-290-6000. There are less expensive ones - around $75. Ours works 600 feet away and is waterproof. A video comes with the collar so you will use it correctly. My husband's cousin uses them to train his hunting dogs. We are believers. My husband has really bad arthritis and has trained our other two dogs without the collar and he really hurt his joints. We've trained the German Shepherd with the electronic collar and we are really happy with the way it has worked with him and my husband doesn't suffer the joint pain he did before.

-- Dee (bdforce@theriver.com), October 28, 2001.

Have you tried a squirt gun with 50/50 vinegar/water mix? Sometimes this can be effective. When the dog barks, yell QUIET!! When the dog is quiet, in a high pitched tone say good quiet! and offer a treat. The vinegar/water has been VERY effective in training our GSD.

A bit off topic, I keep a little squirt gun right beside the keyboard with just water in it, for my 2 cockatiels. They're in a cage right behind me, and Pete, the dominant one, will start with some ear-piercing screams for no reasons. A couple of squirts usually does the trick. Sometimes I just have to pick it up and wave it at him, he runs to the back of the cage.

-- Chelsea (rmbehr@istar.ca), October 28, 2001.

I bought a fairly expensive bark collar for one dog who was quite a barker, and I was not pleased. It was activated by throat vibration, supposedly, but the dang thing couldn't tell throat vibration from vibration caused by, for example, running and playing, or whining and talking. (My dogs tend to be very vocal, but usually not excessive barkers.) As a result, the collar would shock my dog intermittently and for no reason apparent to her. It was, in effect, a dog torture device with no purpose, and went back to the manufacturer very quickly.

If I were to do it again, I would buy one with a manual control and decide for myself when the dog had crossed over the maximum sound line.

-- Laura Rae Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), October 28, 2001.

Shannon, I know this is going to cause some critical mail, but have you considered debarking her? In the long run, a quick surgical procedure (if she can tolerate it with her age) might be more humane than constant rebuke and punishment. She would still "bark" but it wouldn't be loud and nerve-wracking on everyone around her. Bad habits are almost impossible to break, expecially in dogs that have been kenneled all their life.

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

Shannon, how old is this dog and what is her health situation? With all of these different training suggestions, keep in mind that if the dog is very old, her health may be compromised by stress. I hate to bring up this suggestion, but if her health is shaky at all, it may be kinder to end her life than to put it in turmoil. Oh, geez...I just read your full signature and figured out who you were....you can judge this one better than I can, but I'll post this for others who may be in similar situations and not have your expertise!

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), October 28, 2001.

This is a ten-year old dog in perfect health. Euthanasia is not an option for her at this time. She is a reasonably happy animal. The barking is directed at the dogs across the fence...we have the old, gentle dogs separated from the young maniacs. She is a dominant personality & is barking to tell the other dogs how tough she is, I think. (Yeah, and if I opened the gate, they'd take her down in 10 seconds flat!) With regard to debarking: funny that should come up. Believe it or not, I am an animal rights activist AND I believe that debarking can be a valid option in certain cases. I realize that seems contradictory, but I'm sure other dog rescuers will agree: when it comes to an otherwise nice dog who can't keep a home because of a barking problem, I'd go with debarking. In fact, we just took in another older dog last month who appears to have been debarked. She just makes a raspy sound that is much more bearable than a full bark, and she makes the sound A LOT. Debarking is in the same class as declawing cats, I think: if it makes an unadoptable animal more adoptable, I'd say go ahead. With this particular dog, I'm not really looking at surgery yet. Will try the collar first. Many thanks for all the good opinions.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), October 28, 2001.

We've used shock collars and have heard anectdotes from others. I would advise spending the money to get a really good one and then test it well before leaving the dog alone. I've heard of the neighbor's TV remote causing the collar to go off! This could cause some real psychological problems. There are many factors in their use: breed of dog, thickness of coat, sensitivity setting on the collar, and the dog's own personality. Some dogs learn well. For others they are a waste of money.

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), October 28, 2001.

I have heard outside dogs just bark more. Maybe telling everything to stay out of their space? Anyhows, we had to use a shock collar when we lived in a city and got complaints about the noise. We were renting, so we could not bring the dog in. It sounds worse than it is, like the dog gets kicked, or something, because they take a few jolts to figure out what is causing the shock. We would take off the collar and she would start yapping again. So, if you gotta use one, they work, just be ready for some yelping at first. Ours barked and then yelped and yelped again. But she learned, and the neighbors were happy no doubt. It sucked. I prefer to have our current dog inside. We no longer rent!!

-- notnow (notnow05@yahoo.com), October 28, 2001.

. Before buying a shock collar(the good ones that really work are expensive)try to borrow/rent one from someone. I tried one on a dog to get it to quit some very obnoxious behavior and she would just tough it out and keep doing what she was doing. She was a bulldog, impervious to pain a genetic trait, and labs can be the same. I'd rather borrow one and find out it won't do the trick than to spend lots of money.

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), October 29, 2001.

I'm glad to see this thread. Our two farm collies *need* to be outdoors at night because if they are in the house they are useless (they are supposed to be keeping the racoons, etc., away from the chickens). But they do bark excessively, and it's been bothering the neighbors, not to mention us! So I've been considering getting an electronic collar for them, too. Squirting with the vinegar solution won't work as they aren't close enough -- and when we open the door to yell at them (which isn't helping at all, either), they stop barking. Don't want to punish them for stopping! My husband was thinking that the male's thick ruff might make the collar ineffective, but I think if we just temporarily shaved the area under the collar it would work.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 29, 2001.

I would like a way to stop 7 dogs from barking. They all belong to 3 neighbors. One starts and the rest join in. I don't have a dog and don't want one. I thought I lived in the country for the quiet. Another plan that didn't work.

-- Mel Kelly (melkelly@webtv.net), October 29, 2001.

http://www.petwarehouse2.com/roversrange/behavior/stopbarking.asp This link is to an article on how to stop barking. I believe they also sell bark collars. If not, go to drsfostersmith.com. They carry several. (They are buying out petwarehouse.com). Hope it helps. Maria

-- Maria Barreros (mb@olg.com), October 29, 2001.