Hi,

As I have noticed by following many threads on which-are-the-best-loved-miniature-alternatives-to-our-Leicas? many of you treasure the Rollei 35 gems. Same applies for me. I recently stepped from a B35 to a 35SE - just to stumble over its quirky ergonomics. But after thinking twice I came up with something you might want to have a look at...

Enjoy.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), October 28, 2001

Answers

My Rollei (a 35S) has been my pocket camera (and suitcase, backup- backup camera) for many years. I do *not* find the DOF sufficient at f/2.8 (or f/4 at closer distances) for guess-focusing, so I carry a Leitz rangefinder with a foot that fits into the Rollei's flash shoe whenever I need it. Ditto, a small Olympus S20 flash (which requires that the camera be turned upside-down due to the location of the hot shoe on the bottom of the camera!). Altogether, what started as a very tiny pocket camera ends up not so compact after all. Also I never trusted the too-wide-angle meter. Recently I picked up a used Minilux, which has both manual guess-focus *and* AF for those shallow- DOF shots, center-weighted aperture-priority auto exposure with memory-lock, a motorized wind/rewind with possibility for continuous shooting, and built-in multi-mode flash, and a slightly faster but just as spectacular lens. The Rollei is now retired to the display case.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), October 28, 2001.

Nice discussion, Lutz. You wrote so fondly about the 3.5 Tessar that I am moved to ask whether you are getting images with the Sonnar that are at all improved with the newer lens. If not, it seems to me that one might be as well off with the 3.5, purely from a DOF standpoint.

I've always been curious about the Rollei. At the moment I'm trying out my Minox, which appealed on the grounds of easy pocketability. It's the one camera I can always have with me, to be sure of getting a shot (If I don't hold my finger in front of the lens) from time to time when there's something to photograph, and it's not practical to carry a full-size camera. But the freedom, with the Rollei (or other mini 35) to use standard film and processing seems very appealing.

The question would be whether to go for it, or for a modern P&S with zoom & fast autoeverything. Probably the Olympus Stylus doesn't measure up in optical quality. I don't know. My wife lost hers before I could run a roll of Delta 100 through it to check it out. There's also the Canon Elph to think about. It's as small as the Rollei!

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), October 28, 2001.

I have had Rollei 35s for many years ... The Rollei 35S is one of my absolute favorite cameras. The Sonnar lens is quite comparable to the Leica Summicron-C 40/2 that I had with my CL (see http://www.bayarea.net/~ramarren/photostuff/rvl/rvl.html for some comparison pictures I made).

I never liked the SE version as much. The eye-level metering just doesn't suit the camera's ergonomics as well, the aperture/ shutter/focus controls were designed to be operated at waist level.

I don't have problems with close up, open aperture work ... an RF is more accurate, I agree, but I've gotten good at it over the years. Most of the time, however, I keep it stopped to f/11 and use 6' and 18' focus marks to ride the DoF.

I don't think I could use your "sling" adaptation, Lutz. I'm too comfortable with my cameras just as is. Besides, I always keep them in their case when not being used to preserve the battery life. The CdS meter has no off/on switch, you need to keep the meter window covered to make the battery last. This might not have occurred to you since you had a 35B before.

Godfrey

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 28, 2001.

Ricoh GR1: point and shoot, magnesium body, great 2.8 lens, [28mm is very useful for from the hip shooting] and VERY pocketable. On the subject of the sling however I have been very impressed with the advantage that is gives in handling on the M6. I use a voightlander VC meter sometimes and you can meter with this from the hip with one hand, and then adjust the camera accordingly again with the same hand. I tend to operate this as an aperture priority system and clicking the 2 speed dials in unison to obtain correct exposure, very simple quick and quiet. - Thanks Lutz

-- Richard (richard@designblue.co.uk), October 28, 2001.

I don't think I could use your "sling" adaptation, Lutz. I'm too comfortable with my cameras just as is. Besides, I always keep them in their case when not being used to preserve the battery life. The CdS meter has no off/on switch, you need to keep the meter window covered to make the battery last.

I'm surprised to hear about the latter - the LEDs in the 35SE just show after the shutter has been gently pressed. So, when should a battery drain occur if not right then? As for the ergonomics - how do you manage not to touch the f-stop wheel inadvertedly? And, BTW, have you ever tried a Sling on a Leica M? I might be biased, but you have to try it to believe it...;o)

As to your question, Bob: The Sonnar doesn't appear to be *much* better, but a *bit* faster. The Tessar sure *is* a great lens! Cheers.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), October 28, 2001.

I thought the true pocket Leica is the Minox 35? (Leica owns Minox, right?) :-D

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), October 28, 2001.

I happen to own both versions: a 35s and a 35te in addition to my M2 (and actually longer). Both are very nice cameras, no doubt. Shooting down to 1/15th is possible, so there is usually no problem stopping down the lens (but sometimes I forget setting the distance). It is said that the 'e' models have problems with electronics, but I feel that these are in fact nicer cameras than the standard ones - the new shutter button moves more gently and due the LEDs it really can be operated when at eye level (you have to hold it a bit different, but it works), though the lens lock is positioned better on the 'standard' models. I can see no difference in the shots from both lenses, the tessar is a really nice performer, but so is the sonnar. They have a different look in contrast, the sonnar seems more pleasant, having a bit nicer bokeh, though the tessar is also very fine. BTW, knows somebody someone who cleans Rollei 35 Shutters here in Germany ? My TE is slightly off at speeds < 1/15th ...

Kai

-- Kai Blanke (Kai.Blanke@iname.com), October 28, 2001.

Some recent city impressions, courtesy Rollei 35

Monte Carlo, Motorway Gallery	Zuerich, Girls On Tramway
Zuerich, Handyman	Monte Carlo, Motorway Gallery

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), October 28, 2001.

Ricoh GR1: point and shoot, magnesium body, great 2.8 lens, [28mm is very useful for from the hip shooting] and VERY pocketable.

I agree with all of that, but I just don't like 28mm lenses. And the GR1, unless it's in SNAP mode, had a lot of shutter release lag that drove me kinda nuts. I sold it.

I'm surprised to hear about the latter - the LEDs in the 35SE just show after the shutter has been gently pressed. So, when should a battery drain occur if not right then? As for the ergonomics - how do you manage not to touch the f-stop wheel inadvertedly? And, BTW, have you ever tried a Sling on a Leica M? I might be biased, but you have to try it to believe it...;o)

Ah yes, I forgot you have the 35SE model. They had to put an on/ off switch with timeout linked to the shutter release in the SE/TE because of the LEDs in the viewfinder ... otherwise, you'd be out of batteries in a hurry! The 35/35T/35S models with the follow pointer readout on the top deck don't need that and don't have any power switch, the camera case is the power switch. :-)

Also, the SE/TE models, because they went to eye level metering, have a little lever under the aperture control which allows it to be left freely moveable. You can also lock it at any setting you want. The 35/35T/35S models, because they are designed to be set at waist level, don't need a freewheeling aperture control and have a spring loaded latch so it cannot be moved accidentally only.

I tried a Sling that a friend of mine had on his M6. It doesn't work for the way I hold my camera and for my hands. I want a wrist strap, but the one that Leica sells is useless and doesn't anchor to the camera in the right place. I'm going to have one made to my own design.

As to your question, Bob: The Sonnar doesn't appear to be * much* better, but a *bit* faster. The Tessar sure *is* a great lens!

The Tessar is superb when stopped down to its optimum working aperture at around f/8-f/11. Then it is fairly hard to tell Tessar images from Sonnar images. At larger apertures, however, the Tessar tends to be a little hot in the center and a little soft in the corners/edges. The Sonnar delivers much more even illumination and better corner/edge resolution even wide open.

Both take great pictures. Here's the URL to my Rollei 35 gallery: Rollei 35 Gallery. Enjoy!

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 28, 2001.

Lutz, et al--

I have always had a thing for small, miniature 35mm cameras. I own a bunch of them, beginning with the Olympus XA > Minox GT > Minox MB > Minox ML > Rollei 35S(Chrome) > Rollei 35SE(Black) > Contax T*(Black) > Olympus Stylus > Olympus Stylus 105, Olympus Stylus Epic > Contax T3 (Black). I must admit that of them all, I would be hard-pressed to rank them, although my 4 favorites (in no order) would have to be the Rollei 35SE, the Olympus Stylus, the Minox ML, and the Contax T3. Of this array, the only one that will work without a battery (except for the meter) is the Rollei 35SE and for that reason alone, I always make sure it accompanies me whenever I travel anywhere. Sure, you may have to guess focus, but I have taken some of my best photographs with this camera. And it takes filters (30.5) and lenshoods.

I've just recently embarked on familiarizing myself with the Contax T3, which I find to be incredibly well-made and superbly fashioned; except for a few minor oversights, the camera has everything in a fixed lens, AF p&s camera you could possibly want (even filters and lenshoods). I've got all the accessories (except the data back) for this baby, too: the SA-2, combined with the Contax G2's off-camera sync cord gives you full TTL capability with the Contax TLA200 flash (and only with that flash). I recently used the T3/SA-2/ configuration and mounted that onto another bracket which allowed me to position the flash--with the aid of the off-camera sync cord-- high above the center of the lens in the vertical position. The resulting candid photos of a friend's wedding reception came out beautiful.

-- Cosmo Genovese (cosmo@rome.com), October 28, 2001.

I had a Rollie 35S for a year but finally got rid of it because: [1] bad lens flare in the sun [2] found it difficult to hand-hold at slow shutter speeds (ahem - for me) [3] the shutter click and lens wink were a bit too conspicuous for in-close candid people photos [4] no-rangefinder, so always-guess-the-distance & [5] I liked the sharpness, flare-resistance, bokeh and "tone" of the Leica M Summicron 50mm lens more.

However, the smallness of the body was very handy and with a custom leather cover I found I could always have the camera with me, and not just when I was out and about in "photo-mode".

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), October 28, 2001.

Andrew , Brilliant case, you are very good with leather indeed!
I remember a beautiful M6 case that you have made, I have the photo in my computer and admire it every day!
Why don't you make and sell these cases? I am sure many people would want to buy one -including me!-


-- Jordan Koussis (jordan@koussis.com), October 28, 2001.

Well I had a Rollei 35S for many years and liked it a good deal. Then I dropped it and it was never the same. Lens is excellent - it is not as good as a 40mm Rokkor or Summicron in my opinion, but it is perfectly acceptable. I love the 40mm focal length. But it is a very slow camera - with locks for the aperture and shutter speed dials. "Guess focusing" is quite difficult for me with a 40mm lens. Somewhat awkward to use I think, but a nicely-made camera. At present I have given up on the idea of a pocket camera. Like all of us I love the concept, but the reality is they are never as useful in the long run, and usually the smaller they are the harder they are to hold at any slower shutter speeds. I shoot chromes most of the time, but I think if you are priomarily a black and white shooter then a Rollei might work better. Having said this, my favorite pocket camera so far is the Minox 35mm - this is really small and did a creditable job with K64 when you are careful. Also had a good (but not Leica quality) lens. If it did not scratch the film then I would probably get another.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), October 29, 2001.

If it did not scratch the film I would probably get another.

Hmm, I've had a Minox 35EL and have a Minox 35GT-E now, put many rolls of film through them, and have never had either of the scratch any film.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 29, 2001.

Godfrey ..interesting. May be it was just mine..perhaps I should look again.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), October 29, 2001.

ROLLEI 35S with 40mm Sonnar was one of the most enjoyable cameras I ever owned. I probably shot a hundred rolls and might have lost 2 shots due to bad focus. I didn't guess wrong-- I simply forgot to focus altogether. I've done close-ups at f2.8 and no problem. Sonnar seemed as good as any Leica lens. In a small bag w/flash, etc., it was a joy to take around. Loved the flash at all shutter spds! One day, however, this Singapore-made wonder just self- destructed. Repair cost was put into Leica M4-P/50mm Elmar-M/GREAT!

-- Frank Horn (owlhoot45@hotmail.com), October 29, 2001.

1) Could somebody please confirm that what Godfrey wrote: Also, the SE/TE models, because they went to eye level metering, have a little lever under the aperture control which allows it to be left freely moveable. You can also lock it at any setting you want. is valid for the 35SE, too? I just can't find that lever on mine... :o(((< BR>
2) Does anybody know about Rollei sites similar to this one here? Thanks.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), October 29, 2001.

The photo of a black Rollei 35SE on Steve Gandy's CameraQuest website shows the aperture locking mechanism with freewheel lockout that I mentioned ... see http:// www.cameraquest.com/jpg2/rol35s2.jpg and look below the aperture control wheel.

That said, the Rollei 35SE/TE instruction booklet does NOT show the mechanism and does not mention it anywhere. I conjectured to Lutz in private emails that the aperture was originally removed from the SE/TE model to facilitate easier eye- level exposure setting and then was later returned, with the freewheel lock, because people found it too easy to knock the aperture setting out.

I looked it up in Klaus Prochnow's "Rollei 35 Family" book when I arrived home: that's exactly what happened. The original prototype had the freewheel latch and standard aperture lock of earlier models, they removed it for production to save money as they felt it wasn't necessary but later updated the camera to include it due to customer feedback. Claus shows pictures of the original prototype, the near production prototype, and first/second edition production cameras.

I love these cameras. They have a curious history, as does all of Rollei really, and Klaus Prochnow's official history and technical reports illuminate you as to the details in a very interesting and articulate fashion.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 29, 2001.

Godfrey,

Thanks a lot for your thorough input!

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), October 29, 2001.

Good a thread, Lutz.

I have two SE and love it. Maybe it would be interesting that :

1) Very late SE’s tops are stamped from very thin and soft aluminum sheet, while the tops of previous ones (as well as all Rollei S’s) were made from brass sheet.

2) The SE’ meter switch has a 15 sec timer and switches off automatically to prevent battery drawing.

3) The best for the Sonnar 40/2.8 are 8-11 f-stop.

4) The SE’ meter is working correctly with any batteries of 5-6 voltage and it's correctness doesn’t depend on voltage of 1-2 volt.

Bad news:

1) The lens has a coma as a bad feature of all fast short focus length triplet-type lenses.

2) Inconvenient to use eye level (as for me, of course), the S is better when using waist level.

3) I prefer a SM Leica ;?)

Victor

-- Victor Randin (ved@enran.com.ua), October 30, 2001.

1) The lens has a coma as a bad feature of all fast short focus length triplet-type lenses.

I don't understand. The Rollei 35SE has a 5 element Sonnar lens, not a triplet.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 30, 2001.

Godfrey,

The triplet anastigmatic lens has a common scheme consisting of THREE components: front positive>middle negative> rear positive.

The classic example of triplet is the CZ Tiotar: 3 element in THREE groups.

A bit more complex triplet lenses are a Tessar, a Elmar, a Xenar, a Skopar, an Anticomar, etc: 4 element in THREE groups (with a doubled rear component).

Else more complex triplets are a Heliar, a Hector, a Leitz Elmax, a Leitz Anastigmat etc: 5 elements in THREE groups (doubled or tripled any of either the front, the middle, or the rear component).

The famous 50mm Sonnar’s by Dr. Ludwig Bertalone are much more complex triplet lens: 7 elements in THREE groups (tripled front and rear, doubled middle component). The Leitz Elmarit’s, lens have a similar formula (4, 5, 6 or 7 elements in THREE groups)

The Sonnar 40mm F2.8 is a complex triplet, which differs from a plain one with doubled front and rear components (5 elements in THREE components or groups).

BTW,the Hauss-type symmetrical lens are better than triplet, it always has FOUR components: front positive, two middle negative components looking each other with concave surfaces, and rear positive one. These are a Planar, Xenon, Xenotar, Summar, Summitar, Summaron, Leitz-Xenon, Summarit, Summarex, Summicron, Summilux, Noctilux, etc. As a rule they have 5-8 elements in FOUR groups.

Hope this clarifies my previous posting.

Victor

-- Victor Randin (ved@enran.com.ua), October 30, 2001.

Sorry, read: CS Triotar

-- Victor Randin (ved@enran.com.ua), October 31, 2001.

Sorry, read: CZ Triotar

-- Victor Randin (ved@enran.com.ua), October 31, 2001.

I have a Rollei 35 with 40mm Tessar lens for twenty years. It is a nice camera. The collapsible lens concept was clearly from Leica screwmount, the Tessar lens and the bottom rewind crank were derived from Zeiss Ikon camera--- Rollei 35 was sort of hybrid of Leitz and Zeiss.

However it is twice as heavy as a Minox GT-E or Minox 35ML, so I put the Rollei on display and use the Minox 35 as my pocket 35mm camera.

My real pocket camera is Minox TLX-- a Leica/Minox product weight only 4 oz, with 1/2000 sec shutter speed, a very sharp lens close focused to 20cm, and a scratch proof titanium coated boday.

-- martin tai (cg081@torfree.net), October 31, 2001.

...The Sonnar 40mm F2.8 is a complex triplet, which differs from a plain one with doubled front and rear components (5 elements in THREE components or groups). ...

Hmm. Well, if you say so. From an optical engineer/lens designer point of view, sure. However, in common parlance, a triplet is a lens with three elements (eg: the Triotar), not four or five or more. Never heard the word applied this way before.

Regardless, if there's coma in the thousands of beautiful pictures I've taken with the Rollei 35S, it's adding to the nice imaging quality of the lens.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 31, 2001.

Godfrey,the common feature of the triplet lens design is their formula: +/-/+. It doesn't depend on how much elements are being in each group : front, middle, rear.

Hope this you will accept.

Victor

-- Victor Randin (ved@enran.com.ua), October 31, 2001.

Oh, I understand that Victor. It's correct terminology from an optical standpoint, but not the commonly used language that people hear when lenses are described simplistically.

To most people a 'triplet' is a lens with three elements, not a lens with groups of elements comprising a three component optical design. I couldn't understand what you were saying at first because it was out of context for the usual discussion here.

Godfrey

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 31, 2001.

Godfrey, we got a consensus, thanks.

The coma appears when shooting a group of people at distance of ten feet and more at f-stop of 2.8-4.0. Every time I wondered of comet/pear-like faces were being near the picture’ edge. Then I did a experiment shooting a chart having round subjects, I have seen the same result.

In spite of that I like this lens. It’s great. Who does say that it makes a flare? It’s HFT (high fidelity transfer) that means it is multicoated. I did shoot a sun with no any flare problems. I use on it a polar filter with a mark of a proper position, and get surprising shots of sea landscapes with a green and almost invisible sea surface, clear colors and bright blue sky.

Best shot to you

Victor

-- Victor Randin (ved@enran.com.ua), November 01, 2001.

I recently bought a black Rollei 35S complete with Rollei flash on ebay. This one and my other chrome Rollei 35 were all made in Singapore, my former home town.

However, I still consider Minox 35ML/GT-E a bit more convenient, and quicker in operation

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), February 09, 2002.

I bought a brand-new black Rollei 35SE in the last days they were making them. Except for occassionaly twisting the dials and running the shutter through its paces to keep it working, it's never been used. It turned out to be too big (and heavy) to carry in a pocket, the meter is useless except outside in daylight, and who knows where it's focused (no rangefinder and poorly marked distances on the lens barrel). It's a beautiful, expensive, toy camera. There's nothing it will do that an Olympus XA won't do better.

-- (bmitch@home.com), February 09, 2002.

Actually a Rollei 35S is lighter than Contax T2: Rollei 12 oz, T2 13 oz.

A Rollei 35/35s or Contax T2 indeed are a bit heavy in the pocket but is fine on a belt case.

In comparision Minox GT-E is only 7 oz, even that I feel a bit heavy in pocket. That is why I carry TLX (4 oz) in pocket

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), February 09, 2002.

I don't know about Rollei 35SE, but Rollei 35S has a CdS meter, it works not only outside, but also indoor. With ASA 100 film I can use the 35S built in meter set the shutter to 1/4 at F2.8.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), February 10, 2002.