Hi,our LaMancha goat doe is a true sweethart! She's 6 years old and in perfect health; on her records, her dam has a 1*m(One star milker)is that better or worse than a 5*M???The buck who had mated her was a Pygmy. Do you think they'd be good milker like Kinders(Pygmy/Nubian) are ???

-- Chandler (thewibles@yahoo.com), October 28, 2001

Answers

A doe earns a milking star by producing a certain amount, which varies depending on the age of the doe, her butterfat, and when she freshened. A doe can only earn one star-thus 1*M. Let's say that you take your 1*M doe and breed her to a great buck and her daughter produces well too, and that doe earns a star. That doe will be a 2*M. There have been two generations of acceptable production. With a 5*M, you are looking at five uninterrupted generations of acceptable production, so a 5* milker is better than a 1*M when you are looking at pedigrees. However, this does not mean that the 1* doe will produce less, it only means that the 5* doe has had tesing done for five generations and that they all passed the minimum production. The stars cannot skip a generation. If a 12*M doe has a daughter that doesn't milk well enough to get a star, that poor milker's daughter will be a 1*M even though she might produce three gallons of milk a day! The stars denote consistency in production.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), October 28, 2001.

A 1*M is a doe who has just earned her star as Rebehak said on DHIR testing. You begin at 1 if the dam does not have astar. So a 5*M is a doe who is the 5th generation of *M's. To earn a star a doe has to milk at least 1,500 pounds in 305 days, but don't hold me to that as exact. i believe its on the ADGA site at www.adga.org go to the performance and DHIR information links. LaManchas are failry good milkers, they are known for their higher butterfat. The ADGA site can giv eyou an idea as to what the different breeds milk as well.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), October 28, 2001.

Ok. I'm a goat newbie here and don't understand how the goats are judged--do you take them to a show to get the papers and be judged?

Also, if you have a goat with no papers and one that is registered and you mate them, does that mean the offspring are registered?

Even if you dont' have any papers, can you be judged and get some papers?

I'm not even sure if I asked the questions correctly or what you call the "papers". Please take pity.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

If you have what appears to be a purebred, but with no papers, there is a way to get her registered as a "grade". Not sure how this is done. Contact the American Dairy Goat Association for details at: http://www.adga.org/ After several generations, you can work up to an "American" by breeding to registered purebred bucks. There is no way to work up to full registered purebred from un-papered stock. The value of a "grade" or "American" varies by breed, (i.e. Nubian, LaMancha, Toggenburg, etc.)

You can pass the milk test without DHIR. Some local clubs offer sanctioned milking tests. Our local Dairy Goat Club has an annual meet at the fairgrounds. It is an overnighter and the milk is weighed and samples taken for butterfat and protein testing from two milkings. To ensure honesty, you milk out at a specified time in the evening and then measure the next morning's and next evening's milk. This guarantees that all does present have exactly the same amount of time to produce for the test. Judges verify the initial milk-out. We have earned stars by this one day event, although some does do not do well from the stress of travel and being in strange settings. If you have more than a few animals it is very difficult to take the whole herd to the test. The clubs also offer organized DHIR. Members rotate and visit each other's farms once a month for a morning and evening milking. Each animal's tattoo is verified and the milk is weighed on a certified scale and samples taken for lab testing for butterfat and protein. It requires some commitment to keep at it every month year after year, and there is a lot of paper work that requires meticulous record keeping. It is serious business, but having many generations in a line with *M's adds real value to a goat's pedigree, both the doe and buck. Bucks get a *B by having *M's in his family. It can get rather complicated. You really need an ADGA rule book to figure it all out.

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), October 28, 2001.

To register a doe who doesn't hav epapers you need to have someone who is an ADGA member verify that the doe looks like and is up to the breed standard you are trying to register too. I did our Alpine whi is really a reg alpine this way. We found some old tattoes when we tatooed her before registering. then depending on the breed it takes 5 generations to get back to the breed, not necessarily pure as some breeds such as Alpines have pure lines as stan mentioned.

As for test being meticilous with record keeping is important, w ejust found out half our herd from last yr wasn't include din their ADGA records so we have to figure out the paperwork, but when i called after we got the final papers we were told they received them and it was in their system, adga's that is. ADGA has computer problems rigt now so they are behind. since w ehave adairy we don't take our does to the verification as Stan said not because of cost but because of stressing and production going down, we didn't want to risk it. Was about the same cost.

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-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), October 28, 2001.

Wow! thanks. DHIR?

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

DHIR is Dairy herd Improvement Records that is the acronym that ADGA uses for those of us who participate in milk testing, DHI is what the USDA uses for their acronm for Dairy herd improvement. When you are on test the records are also through DHI. Hope this doesn't confuse you too much.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), October 29, 2001.

I would not expect very much milk with a pygmy X, but it will have the consistancy of half and half![ pygmy milk has high butterfat.] I am afraid you will not be able to record the kids with ADGA if they contain ANY non-dairy genetics.Good luck.

-- Kacy (kcjp@earthlink.net), February 12, 2002.