I have an M6TTL and always wanted to know what's up next for me and my amateur hobby needs. Please don't say I should now get an M6 classic or even an M5. What I do like, which wasn't on the oldies are the LEDs and the time wheel's positioning. I don't want an M6+ or an M7 either (well, maybe in the distant future).

I've looked at lots of postings here and see that many of you swear by an M2, M3 or one of the M4s. Nice to read your answers to Jonathan Kiu's question last night "Should I buy an M3?" What I do like, which isn't on the M6s was (often) the self-timer and the bigger vf (but then we now have the 1.25x thing). Finally, I think any IIIc or f or g etc should wait to be my "body No. 3".

Maybe it's so simple. How about just getting a second M6TTL (maybe this time in chrome instead of black)? Got any other ideas?? Thanks. Mike

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), October 29, 2001

Answers

Michael,

I have a M2 and am playing with the thought of just buying another one this weekend. Reasons are simple:

1. I currently have an exclusively use 35, 50 and 90 mm lenses. It is nice just to have one frameline - you can even give your camera to another person for shooting and the know what's going up. You have to know, which lenses you shoot mostly, so if you like the 50/90/135, then a M3 would be the one. M4's offer more versality, but do you really need that ?

2. Solid build quality

3. Self timer available (usable for tripod work)

4. To me it doesn't matter wether a body is 20 or 50 years old as long as it is working properly. A clean M2 is delightful to use.

5. Handling is fine, even film load and manual film counter

6. External metering is fine, exp. for snapshots. OK, slides may be a bit off, but right now I have less than 5% under-/overexposed slides - and I am metering every 5th frame. The results with a hand held meter (Gossen Sixtron) are just better than the ones with the built-in.

7. Cheap compared to all other bodies if you get a 'user' one. The one I'll most probably buy this WE will cost 400$ + a CLA, which sums up to about 550$ - 600$. This one has preview lever, self timer & lever rewind, a nice one though with marks, but who cares ?

8. Rewind bothers me, but thanks to Ray Tai I'll get an external rewind knob. It isn't that bad !

By the way, spending about 500$ / 1000 DM for a Leica body doesn't make you fell like you're doing the wrong thing ;-)

Kai

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), October 30, 2001.

Older M bodies aren't any different functionally than the M6 except for the meter which is very important to many people including myself. This is a very basic question only you can answer. Anyway these days the M6TTL isn't as expensive as a few years ago. If you buy an M2 or M3 you are buying into a 40 year old camera with potential problems on top of a manditory $100 CLA. My favorite second body these days is a Bessa-T with trigger winder for my 28mm Elmarit. Just lovely!

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), October 30, 2001.

Purchasing a second M body certainly depends on a few factors, one being which lenses do you use most frequently. If you use the 35mm lens most, it is probably best to choose an M4. If you use the 50mm lens most, it is probably best to choose an M3. Personally, I would choose either the M4 or M3. They are very well made and, when in good working order, are completely dependable. Price is another factor to consider since most vintage cameras need work, and that is expensive.Whenever I purchase used, I try to purchase equipment that has recently been CLA'd. Otherwise, the responsibility is yours and it is expensive but worth the expense.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), October 30, 2001.

Get another TTL. You like your present body and they are available used for the same price as a classic (or an older camera after you do the needed CLA). I carry an Leica self timer and adapter for the one or two times a year I want it.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), October 30, 2001.

Thanks everybody! (Although the more the better here.) I knew it would end up as a question of whether I need the LED stuff or not. I think the best way to check that out is just experiment without it (and with an M2 or 3 or 4) for a while.

John, you once told me there is an adapter called OZTNO/14088. That nomenclature looks like a Leica/Leitz thingy but what about the Leica self-timer you now mention -- is that another part all in itself (requiring your adapter)?

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), October 30, 2001.

Camera body or female body?

-- Dave Doyle (soilsouth@home.com), October 30, 2001.

Depends on this: is there a lens on it or not.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), October 30, 2001.

I don't have a Leica M6 but the backup for my Leicaflex is my Nikon F camera :)

-- Alfie Wang (albert.wang@ibx.com), October 30, 2001.

Michael,

female body with or a M6 with one summicron ?

Kai

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), October 30, 2001.

sorry, got stuck in the html - tags: The female body with two contact lenses or a Leica with a summicron ?

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), October 30, 2001.

My favorite body to pair with my M6: a Widelux. You might as well have a second camera that does something the first one can't!

-- Tim Nelson (timothy.nelson@yale.edu), October 30, 2001.

Tim, that's another hit right on my nail's head! Thanks!! That's why I asked the question in the first place (although I also knew what John would say, and that is always good advice). Now all I have to do is make up a long list. Point 1 being eg. a self-winder. Point 2: the wider vfs. Point 3: who (the female) is to take which lens...

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), October 30, 2001.

How about a CLE or a CL? It's smaller than the M6, takes the same lenses, and has a wideangle viewfinder (not sure about the CL, but the CLE has a 0.6 viewfinder).

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), October 30, 2001.

I have two M3 bodies and recomend it extensively, even I have had some upside down problems lately. Also M4P works great; I think your choice will have most to do with finders, M3 are so good with 50 and up except 75 that doesn´t exist in this model. But the most similar to what you own now will make things simpler, in this I´m with John C.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

Michael wrote:

"John, you once told me there is an adapter called OZTNO/14088. That nomenclature looks like a Leica/Leitz thingy but what about the Leica self-timer you now mention -- is that another part all in itself (requiring your adapter)?"

The Leica self timer is a APDOO/14003 (or ASKOO when it includes its case). It is very small and easy to use. They can have missing teeth in the main timing gear so make sure you get one that sounds smooth. The self timer was for the LTM cameras so you need the release adapter OZTNO/14088 to mount it on a M camera. These both show up on eBay all the time with varying prices. The OZTNO/14088 tends to be least expensive when it is described as a soft release with no part code.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), October 30, 2001.

I'm weening myself off of the F3 and still go to it when shooting my kids soccer games. I was going to cash in all of my Nikon stuff to pay for the Leica kit but I think I will keep it for just such moments. Ever try to follow a ten year old midfielder with an M6/135mm?

-- brooks (Bvonarx@home.com), October 30, 2001.

Mike:

Heresey Heresey Knoica RF Heresey Voigtlander Bessa Lc/w adapter plate & 25 + 15 mm lenses Heresey Heresey.

I have had excellent experience with this set up 3 bodies, 6 lenses all fit in one bag and a range from 15mm to 90 mm with EXCELLENT image quality.

I do not stick to Leica out of some magical mystery mythical loyalty. The Old Men of Wetzlar/Solms are missing the boat, while still sailing into oblivion. Reminds me of the british motorcycle industry in teh 60s & 70s: "What do those Japs know about making bikes?". BTW I still have a 1974 Norton motorcycle-great bike but the devil to keep running.

The Konica may be a bit costly fore the entire kit, so a Bessa with the M mount would do the trick.

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

"Heresey" is actually spelled "heresy"...sorry I just had to do it!

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

And I thought he meant "hearsay".

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), October 31, 2001.

Robin& Mike:

Hearsay, heresy, heresey, himsay: I think I made my point and thanks for the feedback.

More heresy(???) Zorki,Fed, Tower, Canon, Reid: Whatever.

Until we meet again

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

What is your favourite body alongside a M6?

Hasselblad 501CM and/or a mid-range Sony DV. Think about it.....

-- Damond Lam (damond_lam@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.

My wifes....

-- thomas marker (thomas@advokat-marker.dk), November 01, 2001.

Richard, at least parts don't fall off my Leica like they used to do on my old '72 Norton!

-- John Fleetwood (johnfleetwood@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.

John:

Do you have an M6 with the cheap little screw-on battery cover? It has fallen off more often than the exhaust nuts on the Snort.

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.

Leica makes a battery cover with a slot so you can use a coin to openand close it. There is the regular silver one for the "R" cameras but there is also a black one. The part number of the black one is 442-299-805-009.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), November 01, 2001.

I'd have to say my Nikon F100 with vertical grip and an 80-200/2.8 or 300/4 -- fully electronic, fully programmable, fully intimidating.

Nothing says "look at me and how big my lens" is better that this set up.

But on a serious note, it's nice to have my SLR with me when I get to a shoot and realize things are moving a little too fast for me to catch with my M6.

-- victor (danzfotog@yahoo.com), November 01, 2001.

John, thanks for the tip about coin usage, but I'll not get that part because I've always found that coinage here is the fastest way to make a wreck out of that screw-on thing.

Richard, no, I'm afraid my screw-on is not cheap or little, it's never fallen out once since I've had it. Even if I thumb it only a dozen times a day (for experiments).

Everybody else... okay, the thing about females and other camera body competitors is okay because absolutely organic... all the time along here I just meant "What is your favourite M-body alongside an M6?"

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 02, 2001.

Michael,

my most favorite body is the one I can afford and which suits my style of shooting. In my case this is everything in between 35 and 90 mm lenses, having a good feel and not too much messing around with a meter. I rather take a patient film than make more meterings ... or like to have the speed set automatically. But since the market for used Hexar RFs is quite small, I still enjoy my M2. I doubt the Konica has the same good feel I got used to now ;-), but then which other camera with AE does have it (and still is affordable) ?

Kai

-- Kai Blanke (Kai.Blanke@iname.com), November 02, 2001.