Okay.... here's my question. I bought a Nubian doe from a lady who wanted to get rid of her because she would not dry up. It had been a 1 1/2 since she kidded, and she had long since wiened the kid. She said she got such a big bag and she did everything to dry her up, including all the medications. She had given her a shot of Penicillin to keep her from getting mastitis, as her bag was gigantuous. Well, I bought her for a song, as I wanted another good milker. When I went to pick her up, she had a bag alright. I milked out a little over a gallon in the first milking. She was rather large in the tummy, but the lady assured me she was not pregnant, she was just fat. All her goats were rather healthy, and at the time, she didn't look pregnant, not next to hers. Well, she has since gotten bigger, or so it seems. My question, or rather questions, are: 1) How do I tell if she is bred? 2) If there is no way to tell if she is bred until she delivers, will it be okay to keep milking her? Will she make colostrum while being milked? My prediciment is if I stop milking her, she will not dry up, even if she is bred, and if she isn't, then I have to take care of the mastitis problem if it occurs from not being milked. So? Suggestions are VERY welcome!

-- Bear (Barelyknow@aol.com), November 01, 2001

Answers

Response to How to tell if Doe is bred?

Some people can feel for the kids, you could have an ultrasound done but depending on the vet that can get pricey. This time of year she should come in heat if not bred, although some does are not real obvious. If she is not bred and is actually fat she should go on a diet as this can cause them difficulties both in getting them bred and kidding. Colostrum is made shortly before kidding, most people try to give the does about a 45 - 60 day dry period. If you want to stop milking her I would take away any grain and go to milking her once a day for a week and then every other day (or every day and a half if necessary) and stretch the times between milking apart. It is important to milk her out all the way at those milkings to prevent mastitis. I'm assuming that it was 1 1/2 years ago that she kidded? Is she milking a gallon at each milking, or just the first one that she did? For a Nubian that kidded that long ago to still be milking that much I would assume that she is not bred as that is a lot of milk.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), November 01, 2001.

Response to How to tell if Doe is bred?

She is not milking a gallon at each milking,,,, about a quart each milking. The lady I bought her from said she tried withdrawing milking. That didn't work. She had not been milked for almost a month when I got her. The first milking was almost a gallon, and about a quart the next day. She has been milking about a quart each milking so far, and I have been milking her for about a month. The only reason the lady got rid of her is because she doesn't milk any does, and was tired of fooling with her. I don't really want to stop milking her, cause she has good milk and I don't want to go through the mastitis thing if that happens. I would be pleased if she were bred, but if not, oh well. I just didn't want to milk her and her not have any colostrum if she does deliver. One thought.. if she is bred, and she gets close to delivery, won't she give more milk than usual?

-- Bear (Barelyknow@aol.com), November 01, 2001.

Bear, I would call the lady up again and try to find out if a buck has ever been near this doe during the last six months. Did a buck escape and get out for even the space of a few hours? Were any little buck kids, that were 'too little/ young to breed' in the pens with the does? A buck kid can breed as early as two months old!

So you have three basic possibilities: The doe is bred and will be kidding soon. The doe has not been bred, she's just fat. The doe has a false pregnancy.

You can try to feel if she is pregnant. When she's on a milking stand, put one hand on her left side. Then press very gently with your hand on her right side, where the hollowed out area usually is. If you can feel anything firm it is probably a kid, especially if it moves. Sometimes I can feel the kids this way on a doeling that I wasn't sure was pregnant. Other times I try it on a doe that I know is bred and can't feel a thing! Another good way to tell is to stand back and look at the doe from a distance. You say she has been getting bigger, is she deep in the belly or bigger from side to side or both? A very deep belly is a good sign that she's expecting. If she's fat you would have a hard time feeling her ribs or the bones in her spine. If she's not very fat but still has a deep and wide belly, she probably is bred, but the only sure way to tell is to wait!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 02, 2001.

Bear, just in case, you might want to check around and see if you can get some colostrum from someone to put in the freezer. That way, if she surprises you and pops out kids but was still milking, you'll have some colostrum for them. Sounds like she's a good, persistent milker -- worth keeping!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), November 02, 2001.

First Bear, there is no medication that will dry up a doe. Dry cow mastitis infusions are to keep in the udder of a doe or cow that has had mastitis during this lactation, it does not dry her up. A shot of penicillin will not keep mastitis at bay during drying or after being dry. "A" shot of penicillin will do nothing for anything. Alot of folks have a very weird idea of how to dry off goats, and women especially! If you nursed did you nurse your baby every other day then every 3 days then :) Milking is hormonal and all supply and demand. When you start to milk it triggers the brain to produce oxytocin which lets the milk out of all the areas of the udder. It also tells the body to make more milk for the amount you take out. Milk a doe all the way out every 3 days or every week and she will produce that much that her hormones tell her. All you are doiing is screwing up their oxytocin release, sending miss-signals to the brain to fill, empty, fill etc. the udder.

Once a doe is milking less than 2 quarts a day, go to once a day milking which also takes away 1/2 of her grain for the day, up on the milkstand. After about a week, stop milking. This also takes away the grain on the milk stand again. The only milk you then take out is if she gets over full, then you only take out about a cup (not enought to signal the oxytocin in the brain to complete milk let down) easier yet is to just milk her tied to the fence not going through the normal milking routine on the milk stand in the milk parlor, just enough to relieve the pressure. Let the rest absorb. About 3 weeks after this process, I do milk them out and insert a dry cow mastitis infusion.

There are does Bear who have blown their teats and udder. Their udder will hang down pendulous with big teats full of milk. They never do dry up, and without udder support (caprinesupply.com sells them) there udder will touch the ground when full of milk. You have no choice but to milk them, or let them wear an udder support. When does look like this they are also more prone to mastitis because they leak milk when they lay down, their teats do not hold the milk into their udder. This is why this doe was sold, they are alot of work, they throw these terrible supports onto their daughters. You will need to spend considerable time with this doe and her udder. She will also fill with colostrum to the point that you may need to milk her before she kids. With a doe like this you may want to keep colostrum on hand from other goats to boost her kids with.

As far as telling if she is bred, many dairy goat owners get together and have ultrasound days at their farms. Next month in Hempstead/Waller Texas it is only 1$ for each doe tested. It is the only way of really telling, all other ways are guessing. With several does in milk or does you know are open, you can take milk or blood and test them with the Horse test, but you have to have baseline samples of does you know aren't bred to compare with the doe you think is. Thumping, bumping and all is guessing. If someone in your area does AI they could possibly tell by looking at the cervic. Get some more information from the person you brought her from. This is why I don't sell does as bred, covered yes, but no guarnatee of breeding. I tease my new folks that with well grown big goats, the only way they will know the doe is truly bred is when she has kids licked off nursing her! Otherwise I have new folks at my farm, looking at a doe asking "When is she due?" She isn't due she had kids last month! :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 02, 2001.

Thanks Vicki..... I knew you would know. As for the colostrum, I have a pint in the freezer for such an occasion. I am new to this, but read somewhere to get some and have on hand. As for them kidding when they are due, a doe I just bought last month had a single kid, and she wasn't 'due' for 3 more months.(Colostrum came from her). Thanks all for your patients and answers. It's folks like you that make folks like me come back to Countryside time and time again.

-- Bear (Barelyknow@aol.com), November 02, 2001.