We'd like to get a dog for indoors (although we live on acreage) that can be counted on to a) bark insanely at an intruder, b) hurl his body at said intruder, c) keep intruder occupied while husband and self take our loaded guns out of the safes and point, and d) be trustworthy around our children, who are not animal tormenters at all.

Australian cattle dogs? Mastiff? Pitbull? German Shepherd? Dobie? Your thoughts, please.

-- gita (gschmitz@directcon.net), November 01, 2001

Answers

Hi Geta, We have a Lab/shepard mix and a lab/? both are great with our kids even when they were very small(kids) and are very protective of them.Both of them came from the local dog pound.I know there are many types that are also great animals.So I would have to say I prefer the Lab in them,but I have seen mean ones to,most had proably never been off their chain or given any attention.We adopted ours when they were very young,I think that is the way to get them since you dont know how their previous owners were,although I would adopt a older one if I did not have children around,but then again any dog can turn on you. Good luck I know they are tons of good animals of all breeds out there. Dave

-- Dave Smith (Duckthis1@maqs.net), November 01, 2001.

Fox terrier. Great kid's dog (really great - self and brothers had three of them as children). Great guard (yappie) dog. Small enough to tolerate inside. Snappy at unapproved unescorted visitors, but that seems to be what you want. Don't last as well as we'd like if there are snakes around, but by the same token they're doing a job of making sure the snakes aren't around to bother the kids; they probably kill fifty snakes for every snake that kills them. And as for occupying uninvited guests - you have never (unless you've seen a terrier at work) seen anything as fast as a terrier after a rat. I've seen a fox terrier (eldely at that) go from a standing start to dead rat (by broken neck from being tossed ten yards in the air) in less than a second, when the rat was also ten or more yards away from the dog. Scarcely credible. The right word is incredible - except I saw it.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 01, 2001.

I'd opt for an Australian Shepherd or also a lab mix, especially lab shepherd.

-- Gloria (mullinaxclan@webtv.net), November 02, 2001.

I have to agree with Don. We have a terrier mix - feisty little fellow - about 25 pounds of pure muscle. He's great with our kids. He won't let anyone he doesn't know into our yard until we tell him it's okay. He's a great farm dog, and we love him to pieces.

-- Cheryl in Ks (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), November 02, 2001.

Absolutely no pitbulls. No malamutes or huskies. No wolf-hybrids. Pitbulls are simply not to be trusted (I'm not interested in debating about it...my scars speak for themselves), and the other three breeds have a very high predator drive, which is easily triggered by normal child activity and noise. Dobies have that intimidation factor that you are seeking, but they also think highly of themselves...they are not automatically submissive in the family pack. Could be a problem if you get one that is naturally dominant. Shepherds can be great. Avoid a purebred...major health problems and heartbreak in the future. I am not very familiar with mastiffs, but don't know of any warnings against them, either. My advice is to contact a local rescue and tell them what you're looking for. They often keep dogs in foster homes, where their temperament can be evaluated over time. They can provide details that will be important to you. One last thing: please do not park the dog (permanently) on a chain. This frustrates every natural instinct a dog has, such as patrolling & protecting his territory, interacting with his pack (your family), and his need for freedom of movement. Chaining a dog can literally drive him insane, and make him dangerous to your kids and others. Obviously, I'm not talking about chaining for short periods, but rather as a way of life.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), November 02, 2001.

Shannon is correct. Cattle Dogs, although loyal to their family are not always a good choice for around smaller children. Not only will their herding instinct kick in when young children run and play (lots of nipped ankles and fingers), but because they are a very dominant breed they can be difficult around children if not trained properly (and even sometimes if they are) as they may consider children as lower than them in the "pack structure" (I have a rescue that lost his home just for that reason!!). Cattle Dogs also genenerally aren't tolerant of the muss/fuss of children either. They're bred to be biters (to nip the heels of cattle)......unless your children are older (over the age of 12) and you're very experienced in dealing with dominant personality dogs then I wouldn't recommend them.

Many times a dog that may be scary looking or sounding would be just as much a deterrant as one that is willing to jump on an intruder (and MUCH safer around the children). I remember walking a huge black, great dane for a friend while dog sitting and although he was the sweetest thing he was big and to some people scary looking so many people crossed on the other side of the street.

I'm not as familiar with this, but I wonder......would a livestock guarding breed be good in a case such as this?

-- Lisa (lambrose@summitpolymers.com), November 02, 2001.

I would have to agree with the lab mixes or labs. We have had our lab in the family since the kids were little and before that we had the lab that I had for protection when I lived alone. Their bark alone would scare someone to death. They are short haired, so in the house that would be a plus. There was an unfamiliar man walking toward our barn a few years back and our dog literally chased him into the truck, threw herself against the truck and tried to eat him alive. I watched out the window. I had NEVER seen her act that way before. Found out later that he is the neighborhood thief. I have never seen him around here again! We just had a litter of half lab/half border collie puppies and that is what a lot of people got them for. Kids and good protection. Smart dogs too! My kids have wrestled, swam, and totally wallered Micah to death and she has never done anything but love every minute of it. I would trust her with my newborn. I would find a lab or lab cross puppy though. It is hard to undo someone else's abuse in an older dog.

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 02, 2001.

A bullmastiff from a reputable breeder will exhibit all the qualities you are seeking. You will have to imprint bond with it and properly train it to maximize its family loyalties same as you would a child.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), November 02, 2001.

O.K. after everyone else gave there opinions here goes.Look for a breed that has the traits you want .A small dog is not going to have the fear factor you seem to be looking for neither will a lab .You want a dog who will stop an intruder BEFORE they ever enter the house .German Sheperds are great , never mind most health problems if you go with a good breeder from german import lines who does genetic testing with there stock{yes there is always a chance}You want to pick a breed then a breeder .Rsearch what the traits of the breed are and also the genetic defects .With all this in mind when you choose a breed and breeder then the rest is up to you .Don't rule out a cattle dog .I have 4 kids youngest was 1.5 years when we got are pup .She is a wonderfull working dog and I trust her 100% with all the kids.At 4 months she kept a 6 foot 200 pd plus man in his truck until came out .Enough said I think .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), November 02, 2001.

Don't overlook the Boxer in your search for the "perfect" dog. I have two of them. They are wonderful around children, bark "insanely", and have a look that would slow down most anyone. The most loyal dogs that I have ever been around. Really great family pets. They may be just what you are looking for? Check it out. By the way, both of our dogs came from the dog pound, so we got around those outrageous breeder fees. Good luck.

-- Marv (mcheim@lewiston.com), November 02, 2001.

Don't forget to get a lawyer if you get a dog that attics to quick.

-- Mel Kelly (melkelly@webtv.net), November 02, 2001.

I vote for a boxer. Incredibly sweet dogs that scare the bejesus out of everyone. they are renowned for being great family dogs. They have nice sleek coats. only minus is they can be a little wired sometimes. My 72 year old grandpa has a boxer that he absolutely adores that sleeps on his bed every night.

-- Elizabeth (Lividia66@aol.com), November 02, 2001.

Just my thoughts but Boxer and Rottweiler. Both need to be properly socialized of course. I know others will most likely not agree with me on this. And any dog can be dangerous, even the small ones if their territory is threatened.

-- Trisha-MN (tank@linkup.net), November 02, 2001.

Boxers will protect ANYBODYS kids. Not just your own. They are maybe the perfect family dog. See if there is a "Boxer Rescue Society" anywhere near you. Might ask your vet.

-- Zippy the pin head (zippy@zipworld.net), November 02, 2001.

I would like to add the old-fashioned working farm collie to the list. They are good with children, good all-round farm dogs, but not too hyper to keep in the house. And they are very protective. Kind of a LGD and a herding dog rolled up into one package.

http://www.geocities.com/farmcollie1/

This is the url for the American Working Farmcollie website.

Now, having said all that, you said you want an inside dog. You need to decide how large a dog you can stand in the house. We babysat a Newfoundland a few years ago and I couldn't have him in the house because he was too big -- he practically took up the whole living room (and we had a momma cat with small kittens at the time, you should have seen her take after that mountain-sized dog when my husband brought him in the house!!). Even a smaller dog will seem like too much indoors if it has a high activity level. So you may want a breed that is fairly calm indoors. Short hair can be an advantage, but even short-haired dogs shed, and some of them seem to shed all the time. German Shepherds and their crosses are particularly bad about this, in my experience, and so far it seems like my farm collies aren't much better. So you need to decide how much dog hair you can live with. Terriers could be good if you can find a breed that isn't barking all the time, and that isn't too hyper to live with indoors. Some terriers also seem to have more body odor than most other breeds. However, my grandparents once had a terrier cross. They took it camping with them when my great- grandmother was along. Great-grandma got really tired of the dog's smell (it was an unusually stinky one), so she gave it a bath and sprayed it thoroughly with deodorant, and no more problem, at least for the duration of the camping trip! (I don't know if deodorant is good for a dog, either.) Point is, frequent bathing would probably deal with the smell, but do you want to have to deal with that? Some breeds are known for being fear-biters -- mainly inbred dogs. I wouldn't own a dog with any percentage of cocker spaniel, we've had to put two half-cockers down for biting small children. Both were sweet intelligent little dogs otherwise. There are a number of books that you might be able to find at the library that evaluate the general character of different breeds. One I remember reading had charts of things like activity level, coat care, and so on. It was quite useful as a general guide to what to expect from a breed. But then you need to start talking to breeders, and to rescue people, and to the people at the animal shelters. They'll be able to tell you (as Shannon did) what to stay away from.

I don't know for sure how protective they are, but I was favorably impressed with a Dalmation we took care of for a few weeks. She seemed to be sweet and trainable, and wasn't as hyperactive as I'd feared. We couldn't keep her because my daughter (autistic) doesn't like to have dogs in the house, and Dalmations have such a short coat that she couldn't stay outside in our New Hampshire winters. But there are plenty of Dalmations available in rescue if you have the right family for one (they need a lot of excercise and attention). Too many people were charmed by the Disney movies and didn't do their research before they got a cute puppy. You do *your* research, and I think you will find what you want!

One thing that has been discussed on the AWFA list (American Working Farmcollie) is that because most dog-owners live in urban or suburban areas, the protective instinct is being bred out of a lot of breeds. This is because a protective instinct can cause aggression towards people and other dogs, and the object of the aggression complains. Understandable, but if you NEED the dog for protection, and get a slobbery lap-puppy (like most Golden Retreivers, which you will notice not one person mentioned for protecting your family!), it isn't going to do you any good. We have to watch our farm collies with people walking by on the road, because the dogs think the road is part of the yard and want to protect it. So that is another thing to think about. You will have to be able to keep the dog on your property so it can't bother innocent passers-by, not only for the people's sakes, but for the dog's -- if it bites someone, it could end up having to be put down, even though it was only doing it's job. So having a dog capable of, and willing to, protect your family, is a big responsibility.

Hope this helps.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), November 02, 2001.

Sorry Kathleen but not all goldens are created equal ! Once again good breeding is the key .I have seen my goldens {shocked me at first} throw there bodies between my children and stray dogs growling and bearing teeth .They also follow the little on when not at home every where .On are first camping trip it was almost funny .The dog lay under the porta crib with are newborn in it .While doing this she kept 1 eye on the other children and if they wonder to far would go push them back to camp and then back under the crib she went .The only problemis the don't have the fear factor .You want a dog who will intimidate someone so they never enter your home.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), November 02, 2001.

Patty, had to chuckle at your description! I've known some protective labs, and seems like all Chessies are protective, but all the Goldens I've known would lick a thief to death rather than protect the family from him! We did have the care of my brother's Golden in Alaska, though, and he died fighting with a wolf in our front yard. But I don't think he ever so much as growled at a person.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), November 02, 2001.

Your right some won't .Most from back yard breeders are dumb as a door nail and some of the top show dogs too! Whatever breed try to look for something with obedience titles .At least you know the parts had a little brain {hehe}.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), November 02, 2001.

Female dogs are the best protection for children and the home. They are more territorial, but don't pee everywhere to prove it. Talk with local vets to see which ones they have noticed are not as child friendly. Chows, Spaniels, and little skittish dogs aren't what you are looking for. My Pit Bull was the best, even around small children. We could have friends come over when we weren't home, and she would lick them to death, yet if someone she didn't know came near the house, she would go crazy.

Rots are supposed to be good with children, and contrary to belief, so are Dobermans. Basically, the breed of dog isn't what really determines it's temperament towards children, but how the dog is raised. I know I may be contradicting myself with the sentence in the above paragraph, but there are more bite instances with those dogs that pit bulls, you just don't hear about them. It's always easier to malign a dog because bad owners taught it to kill, then to be responsible and raise it right.

-- Wendy A (phillips-anteswe@pendleton.usmc.mil), November 02, 2001.

Australian Shepard are great as cattle dogs and babysitters for kids LOL. They are a good family pet and great indoors to. They do get between 45 and 60 lbs. They will bond with the hole family and are good protector's. On the other hand a Australian Cattle dog is a different breed also know as a blue heeler. They are not as good for a family pet tho. they are a one person dog, tho they will love everyone in the family they will pick the person they like best and protect them even from other family members LOL. I know I have one Australian Shepard and two Australian Cattle Dogs. All three think they are house dogs. the Australian Cattle dogs those take alot more care because they are a much hiper breed. Australian Shepards are very much more layed back. Anyway My ACD's one like kids and the other will do just about anything to bite a kid. All cattle dogs do shed quit a bit so be ready to vac a couple times a day!! When you are looking at breeds check with your vet. Between heartworm pills every month and then the pills for worms and the pills and oils to keep flee's and ticks off. Also for getting your pet fixed and the feed it will eat every month the biger the dog the more it costs. I figure mine cost me about 100.oo a month for food and the meds to keep them healthy and then about a 150.oo a year for all three for the shots they need to get every year. Most people don't think of the cost in the long run. It is better to figure out what you have to put into a pet every month. The heartworm pills I give every month for a 50 lbs dog are about 10.00 (times three for me since I have 3 dogs) a pill as for a dog that is about 10 lbs it would only cost about 2 or 3 dollars for the same pill. It goes by the weight of the dog. The more they weight the more it cost at the vet and the more food for them to eat.

-- Teresa (c3ranch@socket.net), November 02, 2001.

Gita, we have a half black lab, half golden retriever that makes sounds like the hound from hell when someone comes on the property. She is not friendly at first until we convince her some is okay. That said, I grew up with a boxer that was extremely protective. She also loved children, anybody's children. My parents always knew I was safe when she was with me. You know, come to think of it, I only have experience with females. I don't know if that factors in.

-- Robin in Kansas (robinatt@salpublib.org), November 02, 2001.

Gita, I just had to put my 2 cent worth on good dogs. The best kid farm dogs when the boys were small was Dylan, a huge neutered male that was 90% German Shepard(knew his parents)and Jessie, female Doberman (knew her parents too). They stopped any unknown person in their tracks, just by raising their hackles, exposing their canines, and emiting a low growl. I was a single parent living way out in the "boonies" of Tennessee, at the time. They were the most patient, long suffering dogs with all babies and children. My mother swears by German Shepards, my brother by Dobies, my son loves Rotts, he lives in the big city and has 3 young children that his dog would die to protect. I believe any medium to large dog is best for the fear factor.

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), November 02, 2001.

Two words. LHASA APSO. These 15 pound dog are known as YAPPERS. They and Pugs have the keenest hearing of any canine. Most peolple have the misconception that they need a 100 pound BIG DOG to guard and that ,in my opinion is WRONG! These dog are extremly cute and extremeley loyal and are good with kids. My Lhasa barks when he hears his tail hit the coffee table !!! Try searching on google for the Dicovery .Animal planet website you'll find a ton of info. THESE DOGS WERE BRED FOR PROTECTION OF THE TIBETAN TEMPLES; IF THE INTRUDER GOT PAST THE MASTIFF OUTSIDE !!!!

-- Chandler (providencefarms2001@yahoo.com), November 02, 2001.

We have had 2 lab/shepard crosses over the years and they were great. They would bark at noises and strangers, but allow the babies to crawl all over them!! I think with any dog the key is training!!! They must be taught to come, down and stay. I now have a Border Collie who is doing a fine job being an all around dog, but as this is a very active breed do not recomend them, beside if a thief brought a sheep with him Bandit may just forget the thief and herd the sheep! He is great for letting me know when people are on our place and will continue to bark until I tell him its okay. What ever breed you get be sure to check the rescues, all my dogs I have ever had were rescues or dumps.....and be sure that they have basic obedience training!! Good Luck Denise

-- Denise K. (Rabbitmom2@webbworks.com), November 02, 2001.

Please be extremely careful of an older dog that you don't know where it has been. We had a boxer given to us by an older man. He was fine for the first few days and then he lunged through a baby gate at my toddler son. If not for the baby gate, he would have hurt the baby. My husband had always had boxers, so I am not particularly afraid of that breed, just that any dog that is older has a past. IF you don't know what that is, it might hurt a child! We knew where this dog came from and it was still a big shock to us! When the people came to get the dog(we gave it to a couple with teenaged children), it tree'd the man on top of his van and went wacko! We had to put the dog down. Truly a sad thing! So....just be careful!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 02, 2001.

I agree with the caution about rescue dogs or dogs that you don't know the background on, especially with children. You don't know what might set them off.

-- Trisha-MN (tank@linkup.net), November 02, 2001.

We just got a schnauzer, 7 mo. old. Trust me they are the type that will let you know when someone is there. Little body with a big voice.

-- ruby (mcfays451@aol.com), November 02, 2001.

I'd go with a german shepherd, husky or border collie though I'd hate to see a dog like that penned up inside a house. A boxer would be among my last choice. When I was younger we had a few akc boxers we bred for pups. Although they sold well, I never liked that breed. Most of them are too hyper and do not train well enough to depend on. They didn't get along well with cats and goats either. I've also seen a few boxers that were nearly uncontrolable and attacked unprovoked. They slobber all the time too. I'd stay away from small breeds also since they tend to bark at any little thing and can't do much to help defend you. You might want to consider letting your dog outside, let it sleep on the porch or something so it could better defend your place. Big dogs need room to run to be healthy, they weren't meant to be kept inside. Most border collies raised from pups will easily learn your property boundaries and stay within them.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), November 02, 2001.

My vote is for the American Pitbull Terrier/American Staffordshire Terrier. If they are trained and properly socialized you would be hard pressed to find a better breed to be a homestead dog.

They are good with kids, and other animals (some are quite good at herding) and make great therapy and service dogs (I have a male trained as a therapy dog, he is great with kids and elderly people).

Their coats are like teflon - nothing sticks, so they are easy to keep clean which is a plus for a mostly indoor dog. They are also compact in size (breed standard is around 65lb for a male)and they don't bark at every little thing.

They are devoted to their family and try their hardest to please. They want to be with their people and hate to be banished. I think most of them would be lap dogs if allowed. (Most Sundays finds my hubby watching football with two 70lb pit bulls drapped across him.) They also have a great sense of humor and some even learn to mimic human expressions.

Regardless of the breed you choose no child should ever be left unsupervised in the company of any dog.

-- Jane (jwagman@mail.com), November 02, 2001.

Probably about the best, smartest dog we ever had was a Golden Retriever. She was as kind and friendly as could be, and 100% trustworthy with anything small. She could carry an egg without breaking it and never showed any uncalled for aggression.

One day my sister was locked out of the house (townhouse). She sent a friend over the garage into the little yard between the garage and house because she knew that door was unlocked. Unfortunately, the dog was in the yard, and yes, Goldens can be quite intimidating. Eventually my sister convinced our dog that she should let the fellow land and my sister was able to get into the house.

Another time, I took the dog to a backyard party. She was friendly, socializing with everyone. After we had been there around 1/2 hour, I noticed she was missing. I walked around to the front of the house where my car was parked, and she had a guy bayed up against my car. He was going nowhere, and she was growling and not letting him move. He said he had just been looking at my car because it was a model he liked (Chrysler Imperial). I told the dog it was OK, and she let him move away.

Years later, we had another golden, dumb as a post, who joyfully welcomed robbers into our home, but she was from AKC show lines, not performance lines. I think the Goldens bred for work and brains are outstanding dogs and can indeed be intimidating.

-- Laura Rae Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), November 02, 2001.

We've had several breeds over the years ranging from mutts to purebreds. I myself love my Black Lab Ebony Louise, she is 12 now and she is my life. She would i believe if provoked would defend me. Our son had a boxer and when he moved home brought the dog with. that Boxer took down one of our goats, so we ended up placing her in a good home where she would be appreciated and not tempted by livestock. I think in my humble opinion the livestock guard dogs make the best. I would never have said that yrs ago, but then we got Furby, a miramma/komondor mix. he is very protective and yet great with the grandkids and even steers them from trouble. He is just awesome. A few weeks ago a man came to buy a buck and when he went into the pasture to catch him Furby was laying down outside the fence watching, when he saw him grab the buckling he went after him and probably would ahve dined on him had i not told him it was OK.

As for the little breeds, Dave i disagree with you. i ahve a small long haired mini daschy who we affectionally call, "Killer daschy!" he didn't earn his name for being freindly. he may be little but he packs a punch, thinks he is like furby his big buddy. I wouldn't recommend them for children, but Killer seemed to be very protective of our grandson. One night I went to check on him before i went to bed, he was curled up at the foot of his, when i got near the room he growled at me almost dang near bit my arm off when i got too close.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), November 02, 2001.

As pointed out already, socializing the dog is probally most important. Also getting them young so they can grow and bond with your family. I've seen just about every breed of dog including mutts, exhibit the traits you desire.

German Shepard is my recommendation. I've never seen one that was raised from a puppy who didn't show a compulsion to protect it's own, with a zealotry unmatched by other breeds. The trick to having a good shepard is to let them know early own that YOUR boss and that you won't tolerate them jumping or running around small children. Boxers and Dobies are great guard dogs but both are too high-strung to gaurantee they won't attack (even if it's playful) your guests. An adult Shepard who is trained well is above such behaivor, they will calmly, yet alertly, stare down all unknown visitors, while showing a very confident air that will intimidate the meanest of intruders.

Good luck in your search.

-- Mark M in NC (MagicMark85@aol.com), November 03, 2001.

My family lived in the country and had way too many dogs and way too many children. I'll toss in my 50 years of observation. I enjoy daschunds, and they are fierce barkers.. but not particularly intimidating and will nip.. I'm thinking of the Gary Larson postman with daschunds hanging from him! Cattle dogs, and coarse haired terriors (aka "terrorers") like airdales and schnauzers are also fierce.. but accounted for many arm and facial scars.. we called them "face biters". Boxers are sweet, smart dogs but are very active, and hopefully the snuffely nose problem has been bred out. Boxer crosses can be wonderful.. a boxer lab can be both beautiful and sweet.

We never had luck with shepherds.. they tended to be livestock killers.. maybe just bad luck; and a dobie cross nearly cost the family their farm when It attacked a visiting child that pulled it's ears.. NO EXCUSE! The child was physically unharmed but the parents sued us for emotional damage.

The dogs that protected us and our livestock, AND were delighted and amused by the herd of children around them, were lab crosses, golden crosses, and surprizingly, rottweiler crosses. Our very best dogs have been farm dog/lab or golden or rott crosses.. "farm dog" being collie or border collie types.

The only dog I ever had to put down for viciousness toward a child was a pure Aussie rescue dog.. he went from home to home because he had never been disciplined as a pup and was brilliant and alpha, and wanted to run the household. I thought I could socialize him and am very thankful the 18 month old child he attacked for no more reason than that I was chatting with it, had heavy clothing on. There are dogs that cannot be saved.

Now we have a rottweiler/farm dog cross, a border collie/golden cross.. and a llasa/corgi cross.. all fine dogs.

-- Ellen (gardenfarm@earthlink.net), November 03, 2001.

Not sure why you would call a ACD a face bitter , heel bitter yes .They are heelers and will nip at your heels.A good German Sheperd from a GOOD breeder will also make a great dog .You need to spend time with different breeds and breeders and see what clicks with what you want .Just remember you are looking for alot in 1 dog .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), November 03, 2001.

Don't limit yourself to purebreds. You can often find amazing companions in mutts. I have a golden retroodle. Her mother was a black standard poodle and her father was a golden retriever. She looks kind of like a giant cocker spaniel. She is as smart as a poodle and as friendly as a golden, which is what we wanted. She is protective of my children and is territorial. She announces strangers quite loudly. At our home, she has been trained not to be aggressive to people entering at strange hours (since that happens frequently here) but the point is that we had to train her to accept that. She is just one example of a good cross, but there are any number of good crosses that would meet your needs. Of course, there is the risk that you could end up with an animal that has all the worst traits of the breeds involved, but in my experience this rarely happens. I used to work in a pet shop where we sold hybrids like this. I don't know the reason for it, but the best of both breeds seemed to present in most of the crossbreeds we sold. My cross was a golden retriever/bassett cross. The puppies had the body of a basset and the fur of a golden retriever. They were the funniest looking little things I've ever seen! You will still want to do your homework because if you cross two hyper breeds, you're going to have a hyper mutt. The other nice thing about mutts is they have hybrid vigor, which tends to eliminate breed-specific health problems and gives them a longer and healthier life in many cases.

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), November 03, 2001.

Patty said "you are looking for a lot in 1 dog". Others said that you need to socialise the dog. Particularly with children, this really means getting a pup for the kids, and letting them raise it as their dog. They will be its packmates, with the parents being alpha male and alpha female. There are other ways, but this one is easy and natural - this is how "the wolf by the fireside" got there. Yes, you will have to make some trade-offs - some decisions - and invest some time in training - possibly in training the children to train the dog. This is why I said fox terrier - all that works well. However, the tradeoff with a terrier is that they are born killers of small animals - you have to get them young and train them that poultry and cats are not prey, but sort of an adjunct to the pack. It can be done - in fact, it's not hard - but it's almost impossible to break that inbuilt response once habits have formed, so you need to form the habits while they're young enough. I've had terriers who'd gratefully sleep under a blanket of cats during winter - the best of them in that respect was actually trained as a pup by an adult cat; but another was just trained by we kids who loved her and loved our cats as well. As puppies, larger stock will train them - if they get approached by a sheep or goat stamping it's hooves, they'll back off and take the message.

I really don't think you can get it all in one package. There is also some value in built-in redundancy - say two dogs. In that case, you could select two dogs to give you the best combined coverage, and OK coverage from either one - say the fox terrier and a Labrador or Lab- X. One comment though - a Labrador is NOT a desirable indoor dog - their flatulence has to be experienced to be believed.

Also note that you should get desexed dogs. Apart from anything else you want them to have a territorial interest which won't be sidetracked when Suzie five miles down the road goes on heat and there's a breeze from the East. Also desexed males are less likely to be aggressive. Desexed females are less likely to go wandering because they're on heat and there's nothing at home to service them. Unless you are going to make money out of stud dogs and puppies (or even if you are), desexed is just plain easier to manage.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 03, 2001.

I personally, would recommend a mutt. I also lean in the direction of Goldens, Labs and American Terriors. My 'baby' is a 50lb Golden/chow/shep, I doubt you'd venture past the front door, but if you did she'd lick you to death, so much for my stereo. She makes quite a racket-even broke thru the window screen to say 'Hello' to the meter reader. She adores kids and while it took TLC to train her, it was worth it. I pet~sat a Brown lab last week, nice dog! Big Baby, but don't under estimate the sweet demenor. As for the AT, another beautiful animal. I know 3 AT's and love every one of them.

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), November 03, 2001.

Can I ask you all to post pictures of you dogs on the countryside friends picture page please. I really want to see the poodle /golden x.Thanks~Patty

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), November 03, 2001.

I agree with Jane! AMStaffs of Pit Bulls are the best. I have being breeding and showing for years and have been doing Bull & Terrier Rescue for 24 years. Very protective, but just LOVE their people. If you have small livestock and cats, I would get a puppy, they need to learn to durtail their prey drive. Contrary to popular belief, it is VERY difficult to get an AmStaff to bite a person, but generally there appearance is eenough deterent. I have a few rescues now, plus two litters of AKC puppies (my only in a year, I'm not a puppy mill, my girls just come in season the same time) If your any where near SW Wisconsin you're welcome to come take a look. My website is http://sites.netscape.net/yankeeterrier

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), November 03, 2001.

Please find a site that lists documented dog bites, maulings, and fatalities on people. (You'll have to do a search.) I'll not refer you to any site specifically, so that you can be objective in your research. What you'll likely find is that for severe maulings & fatalities (particularly on children), pitbulls and rottweilers are at the top of the list. I think sheps are somewhere up there, too. Certainly, there are pitts and rotts who never hurt anyone. But there are a disproportionate number who DO. The idea that a properly trained dog will never bite is false. You cannot possibly predict every variable, and therefore you just don't know that a given dog won't bite. If a lab mix dog gets his signals crossed and decides to bite your kid, you might end up in the ER for stitches. If a pitt or rottie decides to bite, however, you'll be much more likely to have a severely injured, if not dead, child. I am not kidding or exaggerating. Dog rescue and temperament evaluation is something I do every single day, and no way in HELL would I ever place a pitt or rott in a home with children under 15 years of age. Remember what is at risk here!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), November 03, 2001.

I would bet my life that my sheperds would not bite my children , but I will not bet there life .My kids are not left alone with the dogs .Parents need to use there heads on this one .Alot has to do with the breeding , how the pup was treated before he came to your home and at what age , how he is socailized when you got him and probally a million other things .I would be leary of an adult dog coming into a home with small children .Parents must teach there children how to treat animals .You must watch them , just as you would if they where playing near a busy road.The wrong dog in the wrong hands can be just as dangerous as a loaded gun .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), November 03, 2001.

Dear Shannon, I can 'see' from your posts that you have had a very bad experience with large dogs of certain breeds, and I think it is important that people who have not previously owned pets, know what the risks are- with any breed. As Patty pointed out, a child is safe with no dog-(or cat, I might add)I once stood helpless as a tiny Jack Russel tore into a womans face, it happened so quickly!

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), November 03, 2001.

Shanno wrote: The idea that a properly trained dog will never bite is false.

Which prompts me to point out, as well, that not everyone can (or will) properly train a dog. I am not very experienced with dogs. I am certain that I could not train all breeds of dogs.

Gita doesn't say what his/her level of experience with dogs he/she has. I think that's an IMPORTANT factor to take into account!

There's a very interesting book by Daniel Tortora, The Right Dog for You: Choosing a Breed That Matches Your Personality, Family, and Life-Style A search on Amazon will turn it up. It rightly points out that anyone who cannot dominate or be "Alpha" over a dominant agressive dog should not own one. Many other factors are considered as well.

-- Joy F [in So. Wisconsin] (CatFlunky@excite.com), November 03, 2001.

i have had good deal of personal experience with dobies (mostly female), pit bull terriers (actual pro fighters), leopard dogs and toy poodles. have also had very limited experience (only one or short time with a few dogs) with std poodle, labs, collie, german shepards, setters, pointers, rotts and chihuahuas. you didn't say if you are experienced dog owners, but here is my opinions. goldens are always showing up in the purina hero competitions. while the one i knew would have fought for his family he also would watched as the kids walked into the street. my female dobies did keep little ones away from hazards, they did thrash several hostile individuals, they were not threatening to meter readers and such. male dobies were more hit or miss on all accounts, but all were suprisingly good hunters. a WELL BRED and trained pit, rott, lab or shep will do exactly what you want. the problem is that so many billy bobs and leroys have been breeding two dogs from the same litter for the fast buck that your chances of winning the lottery are better. the bird dogs are either going to be AKC/SHOW (worse than useless) or field bred hunting machines with little interest in protecting anything. the std poodle was okay all around but never tested in a fight. the collie likewise. the leopard dogs were like the dobies but a little rougher on the family until you teach them not to, and even more inclined to hunt. after all that, my suggestion is a golden for a first dog or a female dobie if you are experienced. neither is so popular as to been bred to ruin (dobies have recovered from the fad in the 70's). a mutt whose background is known and has the qualities you want in his background is good option but just as hard to find as a fourth ace. by the way my brothers choice recent choice for a family dog was an english setter gyp, mine was a leopard dog but we both got them for hunting too.

-- Pops(now in Okinawa) (pops762@hotmail.com), November 03, 2001.

There is no way you can be told of any one breed. Each individual canine is different. If you earn the respect of ANY breed, he will do whatever it takes to protect you.

Someone didn't believe me when I told them this. I was holding my miniature dachshund at the time ~ hardly enough fur to be called a dog! -G- I told him to yell at me and pretend to hit me and the dog would go after him. He didn't believe me and wound up screaming for me to get the dog off his arm! The guy's arm was up in the air, the dog's teeth were glued to his arm, but the dog wouldn't let go until I told him so.

I've had Dobermans that wouldn't even get up if a stranger walked into the house (someone *I* knew, but they didn't), and then there was the BEST Dobie I ever had protection-wise. He had been protecting a gun shop....stayed outside at night to guard. The owner gave him to me. 24 hours later, 2 men who evidently couldn't read the large 'Guard Dogs' sign on the fence, came thru the gate. The dog tore out of the doggie door to the house, had a front paw on each fellas shoulder, and was going for the throat of one when I commanded him to get down. That dog wasn't protecting ME, but the property.

The wimpy dogs I've had that didn't bark or care who came in the house, would kill anyone who would attempt to hurt ME.

Actually, from my experiences, a used junk yard dog would probably be the best protector!

BTW, my lawyer advised me to NEVER put up a 'Beware Of Dog' sign. Strange as it sounds, you're admitting you have a dangerous dog and you'd lose in court. Kinda funny when you pass a house that has that sign and a Chihuahua out there! -G-

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), November 04, 2001.

Just had to put my two cents in here... Take a look at the American Bulldog (not to be confused with a Pitbull or Boxer)

The American Bulldog are an old breed of farmdog and you have seen them if you know "Petey" from "The Little Rascals" or "Chance" in the Disney movie "Homeward Bound". They are not as smart as some of the herding dogs, but function naturally as scary looking teddy bears. Consider a female for a gentler, more willing to please nature. As with all pets - don't skimp on the love or the training.

-- diane greene (greenwitch@catskillnativenursery.com), November 04, 2001.

Big dog, big bark that has always scared the hell out of me: Great Dane. Nice dogs, too. Nobody has mentioned that breed. They look way scarier than they are (recent experience working at a veterinarian's.) They do slobber a bit, though, and I would imagine eat you out of house and home. Still... I don't have a dog, but when I get one, it's gonna be a standard poodle. Awesomely smart dogs. Originally trained to retrieve, you know. Puddle=poodle. The silly clips were done to protect their joints, etc., while letting them shed more water while swimming. (the French eventually added them to their circuses and everything went downhill from there...including toys poodles, teacups, and those other things that look like bedroom slippers or dustmops.)

Interesting thread. Thanks.

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), November 04, 2001.

Awwww, Sheepish, I never liked small dogs, but then I met my sister's toy poodle. He is loyal and fierce and a really great fellow all around. It doesn't hurt that he worships me...the home of the many acres to run! He gets along well with my two over-80 pound mixed breed dogs, loves to swim and makes nice with kids. If someone walks down his street in town he barks. If it is a dog, he barks louder. He is easy to train, unlike my stubborn husky mix, and is easy to feed, trim and generally care for.

It just goes to show, it is the individual dog, not necessarily the breed or breeder, that makes the difference. Be patient and the right dog will come to you.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), November 04, 2001.

I've had dogs all of my life. Most of the family-oriented, kid dogs, the ones the kids grow up with and remember forever, are cross breeds, and a lot of them are half German shepherd. Right now I have a German shepherd and Greyhound cross. She's one of the best dogs I've ever had. You will find good apples and bad apples in all, but for a good pure bred, and one that would really appreciate a good home, look into the Greyhound rescues. I know of some dogs who came from there and they are all really intelligent and lots of fun, and so devoted to their families. I've had 2 lab crosses (have one at the moment, as a matter of fact.) Both are really good looking but untrustworthy dogs that I wish I had never brought home. You probably won't find a dog that has all of the traits you mentioned, so why don't you settle for gentle, intelligent, and loyal and see if the dog turns out to be protective on his own? I used to carry mail. People are surprised when they find out how protective their dogs can be. One old dog never paid a bit of attention to me and all of a sudden he wouldn't let me on the porch one day. The 10 year old boy had come home sick from school. The parents were not even aware that the dog would react that way. Some never show agression unless the children are home--they'll ignore you all year and then, when schools out, they don't want you in the yard.

-- Frances Burt (fsburt@msn.com), November 04, 2001.

I've groomed dogs for many years and worked with dogs for longer than that. Avoid pit bulls and chows no matter what anyone says. They truly cannot be trusted in general and therefore shouldn't be considered around children especially. Rottweilers and Dobermans are iffy as are German Shepherds and Malamutes. Many will argue with me because " their dog has been great for them", but these are often isolated positive reports. Too many attacks have occured that prove otherwise. Good tempered mix breeds are the best.

-- Marv (pebes51@aol.com), November 04, 2001.

I do australian shepherd rescue and feel I must come to their defense because of one of the posts here. We try to foster them long enough to see what their flaws may be. That way we can place them in the appropriate environment. Most are fairly high energey and need the opportunity to run around and get some exercise. But dogs are individuals even within the same breed. My aussie is very low key, maternal, yet loyal and protective. Of course I think they are beautiful and a great all around dog. I know from having fostered them which ones will do well with children and which ones will not. The majority get along with most everyone unless they aren't supposed to be there. They definitely warn us when there's a stranger about. Otherwise they are fairly quiet. they are also one of the intelligent and trainable dogs I've ever encountered.

-- Denise (jhammock@cinci.rr.com), November 05, 2001.

I missed something,..which post was neg. about aussie's (shepards not cattle dogs)???

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), November 05, 2001.

I read back through and still didn't find a slam on aussie shepard's but I think I know why someone would call an ACD (heeler) a face bitter, if you move, they do for the moveing part, if you face them and make eye contact (visual) they will go for the face, ours play much more agressively when we make eye contact, imitating head angle and the amount of whites showing from the eyes will change our alpha pup's behavior in an instant, it is more of a challenge to the authority to hold the gaze than to look away and back, if you look away completely they win. I think this is a universal body language, a steady gaze= I don't accept(or I challenge) your authority; eye contact look away= I underatend your place and mine; no eye contact= I am inferior to you and I know it.

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), November 05, 2001.

Please, please, check with your insurance before getting certain types of dogs-- pitbulls, rotts, etc. may not go over with them because of liability concerns, and if you don't tell them you have one and there is a biting incident, they will not defend you, and you will have paid premiums for nothing.

If you don't want to put out a beware of dog sign, you might put a dog house and bowls (water and food) in a conspicuous place like the front lawn or on the porch, or if you have a gated fence, a well-lettered sign saying "Please do not let out the dog. Ring doorbell, press intercom button, whatever" That is a polite way of letting people know you have a dog.

Even the most well-trained dog will bite if it is provoked, or if it is a very hot day, or both. You might see if the prospective pet can pass something called a "Canine Good Citizenship Test" (I forget what organization sponsors it) or has proof of passing a basic obedience class.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 05, 2001.

Actually Anne, you might know that I'm a sucker for any four-legged creature (including those little things that look like bedroom slippers!) I often prefer the company of critters to humans (they make more sense...certainly more than I, on many occasions!) I love all creatures, great and small (or as Mr. S. sez: "All creatures grunt and smell.")

The only time I was ever attacked was by a black Labrador Retriever. Many, many moons ago... I had an appointment with a client at her house; the owner said she (owner) would be there; there was this happy-looking friendly dog in a fenced yard; I proceeded with extreme caution and no eye contact, etc., to open the gate and walk to the front door...I still got chomped! Fortunately for me, the only major damage was to my coat (the owner being an insurance claims adjuster was only too glad to replace it for me, plus change) as well as a bruise the size of Dallas on my thigh (which has since been exceeded by a rent-a-ram that I contracted to service my ewes! Not just dogs, I guess!)

Perhaps being chewed to death would be worse than being yipped to death (those dust-mop dogs again) but then, ya never know! ;-)

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), November 05, 2001.

Thumper, a woman named Ellen about halfway up said that the only dog she had ever had to put down was an aussie rescue dog which had bitten an 18 month old. In all of my rescuing we only had one fear biter which had to be put down and that was while the dog was still in foster care. There are some aussies which like children more than others. But we know that before any adoption takes place. I would have to say most aussies love everyone in their family. But that was what I was responding to. I didn't want anyone to get a bad impression about aussies from what I would consider from my experience and isolated incident.

-- Denise (jhammock@cinci.rr.com), November 06, 2001.

I raise meat goats and have an Akbash with them for protection. I also have noticed that my dog is jsut as protective of my children as he is my goats.

-- lane bell (lanelynn@hotmail.com), November 06, 2001.

Denise, thanks for the heads-up on the post, when I read it before I took it to mean a cattle dog, not a shepard, I guess I was just reading too fast.

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), November 06, 2001.

Honestly, it really doesn't matter what type of dog you get, as long as you raise it with love and never use violence to punish it, the dog will love and protect you and your children to death.

For the people who get on here and talk about how bad certain types of dogs are(Pittbulls) If you've never owned one your obviously no authourity on them, Labs bite, shepards bite, poodles bite, all breeds bite. I say as long as you carefully select a puppy from a respectable breeder and love that puppy, you will find the dog you are looking for. There are a few breeds that i would recomend, Standard Poodle, very intelligent and easily trained, American staff, These dogs are loving, trainable, and CONTRARY to popular belife they LOVE Kids. Cane corsos are a large mastiff breed, they are gentle giants. but never overlook a mix breed!

One More thing to the person who was attacked by the pittbull and has the scars to prove it, would you dismiss a whole race if one person from it attacked you? You have a very close minded attitude.

-- Jessie (Jessie@slayerized.com), December 08, 2001.

Jessie, and others, what you say is basically true, but by the same token to ignore the fact that there ARE dispositon differences between various breeds is, IMO, disingenous, a form of denial, and a diservice to the generations of breeders who have intentionally created those differences.

Certainly no rational person would argue that the behaviour of a dog is affected by its upbringing. However, all breeds are not created equal. A few anecdotes here and there does not change the fact that some breeds generally make better family pets than do others. Breeds whose basic purpose, through selective breeding, is to fight, attack, or aggressively protect, will not as a rule have a similar demeanor to a breed that has been bred for thousands of years to retrieve small game, or to lie by its master's hearth, or to be a trusting playmate to small children.

There is also the issue of just plain bad breeding, no matter the variety. Whether certain individuals wish to admit it or not, a large percentage of dogs in this country are bred by backyard breeders who know or care next to nothing about genetics, and about selection of only first-class stock for breeding. Poor selection often leads to poor temperament, especially with the all-too-common rush to produce whatever breed is all the rage. Many, many breeds have been terribly damaged for countless generations by this greed-engendered motivation, in dependable disposition, overall health, and intelligence.

It seems to me that defenders of dog breeds which have a reputation for agressive behaviour would do better to work hard to help improve the overall qualifications of their breeders, to be honest about the dangers of many of the animals which can prove dangerous to the public, and therefore gain the respect and admiration for their beloved breed that they so clearly seek, rather than to take on the commonly heard defensive tone that does little for their case.

Peace,

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), December 08, 2001.

Has anyone had experience with Cathuola Leopard Hounds? How are they around children, and assorted small animals? Thanks

-- Tom Wright (nthomaswt@aol.com), December 09, 2001.

Has anyone had experience with Catahoula Leopard dogs?

-- Tom Wright (nthomaswt@aol.com), December 09, 2001.

I think you should get be a Border Collie. If you introduce a Border to your children at a young age then he/she will grow up and be the sweetest thing around them. I have a Border myself, and being 13, I'm very hyper around her and she either joins in going insane with me or lays around, not minding at all. They really are great dogs. And as guard dogs, they're excellent too. If someone even knocks on the door she runs to the door, barking like mad, growling and snarling included. I imagine if you ever let a Border loose on an intruder, they'd rip them to shreds. They're also very playful (Another reason they're a good companion for kids) and the most intelligent dog breed in the world! You have nothing to lose with a Border.

-- Jaine (Petkose1@pdq.net), December 23, 2001.

geta, i'd go with the apbt!!!!! they're great with kids, they're excellent working dogs, and they're pretty protective of their owners, who wouldn't want a dog like that !

-- not tellin!!!! (jeebus@jeebus.com), January 07, 2002.

I don't agree with what some of the people are saying about pit bulls. they are the most loving dogs i have ever been around. it's all in how you raise them . Sure if you are going to raise them to be mean , they will be mean. but i have three pits, all in the house. they love kids to death, and they are very smart and sensative dogs. I wouldn't own a different breed. I just feel bad for the people who have come across a pit that someone has turned mean. they are not all like that. Like i said earlier, it's all in how you raise them.The more time that passes, the less your going to see mean pits. making them mean has become a thing of the past. they need to be given a chance because of there past history. Get to know a pit bull and you will see what i'm talking about. if you have any questions about how pits first got the bad rap, please e-mail me at tippy4981@excite.com thank you

-- Tiffany Bryant (_tippy4981@excite.com), January 10, 2002.

Upon examining the qualities you seek in a canine , I wonder why the breed that epotimizes all of these traits is not mentioned. The Great Dane. The Great Dane will make any intruder think otherwise.In fact I bet the intruder would be so intimidated you might need to supply toilet paper at the outskirts of your home. The Great Dane bark...in case you havent heard it , is the loudest of all barks. As far as a family dog , his love for his family in unparrelell. As for good around kids , take heed of their other name "Gentle Giants". These dogs are also insanely intellegent and will command respect . I was born and raised around them , theyd never bitten anyone who shouldnt have been bitten , and Ive never been robbed or my family injured

-- S. Long (augustus1@hotmail.com), January 22, 2002.

A national champion german sheperd (female) and a nationl champion malamute combined to birth an incredibly huge, protective, yet most loving dog!There was no hip displacia. The dog reflected its wolf ancestors with paw webbing. Underwater, it would keep its eyes open (like a wolf)for successful hunting. The dog grew with my children who would crawl all over it, read stories to it, and ocassionally, try to eat from Karma's dogdish! Once, while I was at work, a creep tried to force his way into our house!...Karma was just out of sight and when the creep begin to open the screen door, Karma burst forth and snapped at the intruder's hand rapidly, with a mighty growl!!! Needless to say the creep NEVER came back!Our dog Never bit any one and knew our friends by voice and smell! In the mid 80's when my wife and I ran a county girls' group home, Karma adopted each child, lovingly, and would put her head on their sad shoulders,licking their tears as they fell!!! But don't be mistaken, Karma was an excellent hunter/tracker and made short work of groundhogs and skunks often. If the girls thought they saw apeeper or intruder, Karma knew to patrol the grounds!( Once chasing an intruder off the property!)Needless to say, our hearts were broken when Karma was hit by a truck at age12. Karma grew to about 200lbs.

-- Pat Dittoe (dittoe@1st.net), February 10, 2002.

A Rhodesian Ridgeback has all the qualities you are looking for. They are wonderful with children and VERY protective. Low activity level indoors, high outdoors. Little shedding/odor. They are 1 family dogs, and aloof with strangers. They are a large dog, too, which you would want for guarding. I personally feel the smaller breed dogs are much more inclined to get nippy with kids. Also, German Shepherds are very devoted to children if raised with them. I lost my ridgeback/shepherd cross to cancer last month, and she was SO protective, I feel absolutely unarmed without her. She would have laid her life down for anyone in my family, without question. She did keep an intruder from breaking into my home a few years ago. I have a toddler who could do anything to her and she would never dream of hurting him. If he was too much she'd simply walk over to me and look at me like, "ok, can you tell him to leave me alone now". A few months before she died,my toddler son was actually playing chain with her tail in the house, chasing her all over the house holding her tail and she trotted up to me as if to say, "mom,look at what he is doing to me!" This same dog was BIG TIME alpha girl, and totally fearless, but my 2 year old could take a bone from her mouth and she would never show any aggression to him. She usually enjoyed his attention. I trusted her 110% with him. If someone ever successfully got into our home, I would have felt sorry for them.....Incidently, I found her at a kill shelter, and strongly recommend you save a life... Susan

-- Susan (ridgebackmom@statetel.com), February 17, 2002.

After reading all of the above posts I've come to a few conclusions. 1) you would be better off with an alarm system than a dog. You say that you have acreage yet you plan on keeping the dog tied or in the house? To me that means you really dont want to be bothered with the dog and wont give it the time and structure any dog needs to be a good family pet/protector. 2)to the people who encourage you to get a mutt have got to be kidding me. I'm not saying that there aren't great mutts out there, but knowing the temperment and health history of a dog is invalueable when choosing a new member of your family. 3)Every person who responds to this is going to tell you how great there dog is and that that is the breed for you. These opinions are bias and dogs that have been great for them, not necessaraly you. Anyone who would recomend a boxer or an aussi to a family who plans on keeping the dog in the house obviously dosn't care about what the breed was meant to do, run. Keeping such breeds tied down or in the house is asking for trouble. With that said, if you have your heart set on a dog, then I would recomend a newfoundland. Big, smart, GREAT with children and dont need to expel a lot of energy. I personally don't own one but i've trained a few for rescue work and they have been great to work with. I personally have always had Rottweilers and they are great too, but you don't seem like the right owner for such an active, intelligent dog. Good luck with your search and make sure that you have some sort of training for your dog and yourself before you expose any animal to your children.

-- Billy christie (sweetbillyc@yahoo.com), March 01, 2002.

We have for the past 15 years owned Bullmastiffs. Now these dogs are seriously protective of their own. They are large, males average 130- 140 lbs in weight but they are stable in temperament. They need to be socialised from an early age as they can be dog aggressive and are wary of strangers. They will only bark when the occasion arises and if they attack intruders, they will usually just hold until help arises. At present we have a 5 month old brindle male who is already guarding his property!! They tolerate children and seem to know the difference between child and adult. They do not like to be confined and crave human love and affection. This is our 3rd Bully and no doubt he will not be our last.

-- Gerry Dixon (dixon@lanckmans.freeserve.co.uk), March 02, 2002.

We had a wonderful large male German Shepherd when our children were small. Never had to worry about their safety, but kept an eye on him around strangers. He seemed to sense whether we accepted someone or not.

One day I was babysitting a friend's little boy, probably about two years old. Our dog wasn't used to him. The little boy took a hammer and slammed it on the dog's tail. The sounds coming from our dog was as though he had attacked him. Scared me to death. Then realized that he was just giving him a "tongue-lashing."

That was one good dog. Be careful of breeding, though. Had several Shepherds. One female was particularly high strung and not trustworthy. Too much inbreeding or linebreeding, I think.

Never buy a fearful puppy.

-- HV (veggie@ourplace.com), March 03, 2002.

I grew up around pitbulls, and rots From an upstairs window I watched my 2 year old brother hit her in the head with a foam toy bat before I could get to him she just looked up like will you please get this kid off of me? but I also had a pitbull/shar pi mixed that at 1 1/2 locked onto my gradfathers hand and would not let go! he was not miss treated he was just spoiled but he would not let anyone male over the age of 15 near me or my baby brother(except my dad) in about 3 months I am going to get another Am Staff I haven't lost all faith just check with vets in you area and experienced breeders stay away from backyard breeders and puppy mills Good Luck!!! Kristie

-- Kristie (kcooper208@comcast.net), March 06, 2002.

I think u and ur husband are extremely paraniod, and are way too worried about gaurding ur house! I mean u already have the guns, and now u want a dog on top of that. Be realistic any type of dog that barks will drive away an intruder, because statistics show that most common criminals dont want to take the time to deal with any type of dogs, even if they are small due to the simple fact that they are on a small time frame to get ur belongings. The only reason other than for companionship, showing, or hunting, there are no reasons to even have a dog. Dogs who are trained to guard usually end up attacking their owners or some innocent because in thier minds they are trained to attack. Also many dogs who were bought for guarding purposes end up in modern fighting rings believe it or not. I have seen many nice dogs all scared up or dead because they were thrown it to a confined area with another dog just for the hell of it. This is why I feel that u are extremey over reacting. May I sugest that if u really have something worth guarding that u invest in a security system. It is 100% reliable, and in no way can it become dangerous.

-- Somebody (assmunch321@yahoo.com), March 11, 2002.

Gita, did you end up getting a dog for this purpose? If so, what'd you get? It seems like the majority of suggestions were biased as to what everyone owned.

The comments suggesting little dogs like lhasa apso, daschounds and schnauzers... are you serious? A kick or two from an intruder would put a dog like that out of commission. A 20lb dog no matter how much it barks or nips cannot defend you.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 11, 2002.

I can't believe how most people have told you to stay away from pit bulls. I currently own 2 of them a male and a female and i also have a 5 month old son. My so called "vicious" pit bulls love my son they sit under his swing during the day and at night they sleep under his crib. I have never had a problem with them since they know that the humans of the household are the alphas. My word of advice, any dog that you decide to get you have to train make sure it is not bowl possesive or toy possesive also train it to tolerate pain the best way to do that is to tug on the ears and tail while it is a puppy and it will eventually learn to tolerate these things then you wouldn't have to worry about your baby getting bitten when they crawl around the house. As for all the people who have had all the misguided ideas of pit bulls, you don't know what you're missing they are called "nanny dogs" for a reason and from the studies I have read huskies, malamutes and shepards of any kind are not good for children neither are rottweillers, dalmations and any small dog. labs and goldens are also known to bite children too not just pits, shepards, huskies, dalmations or rottweillers. study the breeds that fancy you and make your pick then visit a good breeder and observe what you like and don't like. You will find the dog for you eventually. I promise. If anyone has any questions or comments about this message e-mail me at woman180@yahoo.com

-- Felicita Madera (woman180@yahoo.com), March 16, 2002.

I have an Amstaff now and its the best dog ive had when it comes to many things, she loves my 8 and 10 year old sisters to death. Tries her hardest to please me. She also is one of the most trustworthy dogs with friends , but extremely territorial wit people walking by outside.And if anyone ever came inside she would definately protect me from them until she couldnt move anymore.

-- Bob Frye (eyeyambob@aol.com), April 08, 2002.

An American Bulldog or Pitbull is your answer. Before you disregard this please read. The pitbull terrier was once a very popular dog throughout America during the turn of the century, anyone who has owned a pitbull and propertly raised it can attest to their loving playful nature. Im 34 years old and I have owned pitbulls and American bulldogs since I was 7 years old and have never had a problem. I have never seen a bad pitbull only bad owners! I own a massive pitbull terrier whose chest is 19 inches wide between his front legs and has heavy muscled shoulders and hind quarters, strangers go the opposite direction when I walk him down the street because of the bad reputation pitbulls have plus his intimidating looks when actually if you scratch him behind the ears you will have a friend for life. Last but least "petey" on the little rascals that every person 30-40 years of age grew up watching was a Pitbull terrier and a pitbull from the "Colby" bloodline (fighting dog) Its not the breed of dog, it's how that dog was socialized as a pup and not reinforcing bad habits during puppy hood. Good luck and take care.

-- kevin dee (kevindee1@aol.com), April 15, 2002.

My wife and I have 2 small children and a 3 year old Pitbull/English Mastiff mix that we thought was a 125lb lap dog until someone tried to break into our garage and "Bronx" went Absolutely beserk flinging himself into the door trying to get out. I jumped out of bed grabbed my .45 held bronx by the collar and went outside, when I went around to the side garage door I saw where someone tried to pry the door open and also several sneaker prints on the ground. They heard the deep barking of bronx and also the pounding he put on the door trying to get out and decided to get out of there fast. Whatever breed of dog you choose, socialize it early and just give it as much love and affection as you can and in return he or she will give their life protecting you.

-- Chris Turner (skydiver720@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.

I think any breed of dog as long as the breeder know what they're doing. And as long as the person is knowlegeable of the breed and know how to train a dog correctly. I prefer mixed breeds. I find as well as many other people do, that mutts tend to be healthier, smarter, and common.

-- chelsey hyde (bonez_marie@yahoo.com), April 20, 2002.

i have had a couple of rottweilers and i don't think you could ask for a better dog and companion.1 male rotty didn't like kids but he just tried to stay away form them but at the same time was very protective of them, wouldn't let little ones near the street,and kinda hearded them back towards the middle of the yard.the male i have now was going to be put to sleep because they (thought) that he bit thier grand daughter i just don't see it! and either did they, they just thought he did,because she had a scratch under her eye and said doggy did it??maybe he pawed her?? who knows? he has lived with me for 2 and a half years and he love kids and women men on the other hand he is a lil stand offish.no one steps in the yard that he doesn't let me know about :)personal and friends and family experience the dogs get a bad rap from haveing dumb owners all that i have ever had conntact with give back all the love and then some that they are given. but that is my experience strenght and hope.ll though these dogs are known to have herditary hip displaysia so you do want to see the mother and father if possible if it limps it is going to be an expensive pet, but not a doubt in my mind him/her will love you as you love them.

-- kevin c lewis (kcmasterpiece@comcast.net), April 27, 2002.

the pittbull is the best awnser to your problem i own and raise pittbulls they are the best all around dog they love children and will most definantly keep the strays away (if you get them off my yard) if you know what i mean make sure you get a apba registured pittbull and all ways rember you get what you pay for

-- shawn foxall (m foxall @neto.com), May 30, 2002.