I´am afraid we are becoming something like a dieing species.

Just returned from a s/h cameramarket today and travelling home I wondered what could be done to interest more young people in our wonderful hobby. It took me quite a few yrs to develop my interest in LEICA- Photography. But I´am missing our successor badly. On the market today I saw 90% + male visitors, all above 50.

Do you LEICA- enthusiasts out there have any good ideas to bring young people into this forum ??

Or does it happen automatically when LEICA goes digital ??

Best wishes

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), November 11, 2001

Answers

Great question K.G... In my experience, they (the young ones) are all going to digital. I guess it's a natural for them with video games and all. Too bad. A few years back, I encouraged a young man "searching" for a career to consider photography, and further suggested he check out The Brooks School of Photography in Santa Barbara. He did, he applied, he was accepted, and he graduated last spring with honors. His specialty now? Digital imaging with some company in L.A...

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), November 11, 2001.

I mention this at the end of the FAQ - I think part of the problem is that the gear is priced into the stratosphere. An M body with motor and a couple of decent lenses & you won't have much change left from $US 8000. You can buy a lot of Nikon or Canon gear for that...

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), November 11, 2001.

Ditto Andrew's answer. Again, from the viewpoint of someone who sells a ton of photo gear I can tell you that film is alive and well. Someone starting out has the option of spending (in Canadian funds) $800.00 on a bottom line 3 megapixel camera or a really good 35 mm (Nikon F80 or Canon EOS 7, both of which sell like the proverbial hotcakes). But as well they can't afford Leica. Again for the above price you get a Nikon or Canon SLR that is a damn fine camera (lets not talk how robust), a 28-80 zoom, a camera bag and maybe a couple of accesories and you've still beat the price of a Minilux by at least $300.00. If you were just starting out which would you go for. Just as with Porsches and Rolex, Leica is an old mans game ;-)

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), November 11, 2001.

I started my children out at an early age to enjoy photography. I have 16x20's on my wall and can tell the kids the story behind each shot. I went on a couple of college sponsored travel trips with my older kids. For them it was college credits, for me a time to spend with them, and I taught them photography from my standpoint on the trip. One trip started out as "Dad, would you shoot this?" The middle of the trip "Dad, How would you shoot this?" and the end of the trip "Dad, may I borrow your ...?" Three of my seven kids have their own cameras, my old Nikon's and the others are interested at various levels. One daughter liked using my M's, but I couldn't bear to see her banging them into everything as she carried them. Start them young and discuss the pictures that you have taken, and how to take them. Show them the equipment and get them interested. You don't teach discipline starting at 15, why should you start anything else at 15 or 30 and expect them to be interested. Today I hope to print a couple of B&W shots of the kids pumpkins shot in the dining room at night with one candle inside the pumpkin. I hope they turn out well for me, but the kids will enjoy them regardless because it is their pumpkin. Take pictures and talk to the young people about how you shot them.

Mark J.

-- Mark A. Johnson (logic@gci.net), November 11, 2001.

I guess I am the exception to the norm. I am a "young one" unmarried, just out of college and hooked on the "Leica style" - mind you, my money which buys these things comes from computers. I have found in my years of digital work (not photographically related), that you reach a point in which the "digital world" becomes the impersonal, capitalistic, often non-artistic behemoth that it actually is. The money is good, the people are "hip," but much of this technology doesn't please the soul. In this modern world many have lost and some are slowly starting to regain an appreciation for simplicity in design, ease of use, and exquisite workmanship. Once us young people wean away from showing off gadgets to our friends, we may follow suit... The best way to convert generation X'ers to this forum is to wait until they realize that the technology that fuels many of their current desires has no soul. There is little to no sense of accomplishment or artistic expression, if you simply buy a machine that does everything it can to take your input out of the equation. People that want to express themselves through photography, as opposed to simply documenting the people they were at a dinner party with, will hopefully eventually realize that their input is fundamental to this approach. A Leica is the quintessential photographic tool to reward human effort. It will not do, or try to do anything other then what it is told...

-- Matthew Geddert (geddert@yahoo.com), November 11, 2001.

Bob:

Just as with Porsches and Rolex, Leica is an old mans game ;-)

But nowhere near as expensive as a Porsche to keep running. Man have you looked at the cost of a 911 clutch. ;<).

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), November 11, 2001.

I am 21 years old and I am interested in photography. I bought a Voigtländer Bessa-R past march and I spent all my money there, last month I bought a Voigtländer 28mm 1,9. I know young people who are interested in LEICA-Photography, but is a very expensive hobby for young photographers. Now I´m joining money to buy a Leica M-6, but I think that I will have to wait one year mone or less to have all the mone

-- Iñigo Uriz (iso25000@yahoo.es), November 11, 2001.

A bit of encouraging news. I know of three Leica photographers all in their 20's, two of whom use rangefinder cameras and one uses both a rangefinder and SLR. You are absolutely correct in stating most of the Leica users seem to be "middle-aged" males. This is also my observation. I actually did not get into Leica photography until I was in my 30's mainly because before that time I was unable to afford the stuff.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), November 11, 2001.

That´s the problem John.

-- Iñigo Uriz (iso25000@yahoo.es), November 11, 2001.

IA: You are absolutely correct. The cost of the Leica stuff is still expensive, even for me. I try to purchase used equipment whenever I can find something I "need" in good condition. People always ask me what this or that costs, and for the most part, they find it hard to believe Leica, even used, is so expensive. Of course expensive is a realtive term but for an average person making a fairly decent salary they could be hard pressed to justify the cost.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), November 11, 2001.

I bought my first 2 Leicas when I was 14, because in 1968 an old Leica was just another old camera and a pair of them cost me $100 with the lenses. Beat up old IIc and IIf, but I took pictures with them well into the 1980s.

The future in photography, however, is digital. Film will become a specialist/artist's space in the future. Leica will be there, for the digital generation when they hit their 40s ... {grin}

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), November 11, 2001.

"A Leica is the quintessential photographic tool to reward human effort. It will not do, or try to do anything other than what it is told."

Matthew, that is beautifully stated and right on the money! I hope you won't mind if I quote you from time to time.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), November 11, 2001.

Dave, it would be an honor.

-- Matthew Geddert (geddert@yahoo.com), November 11, 2001.

Hi, friends:

Thanks to the younger ones here for their most appreciated words.

Wellcome ! ! Though I think that Leica photography is not necessarily made with Leicas only but with simple gear that allows for the photog's expression to show up to her/his photo abilities instead of the camera's.

But, yes, Ms certainly are some of the best tools still at hand ... provided we can pay for them.

On that respect, I have expended a good amount of money in different kinds of photo gear along some twenty years and always seemed to need something else until I found my M3s. Now I think that they are worth their value considering that they are tools for a lifetime (and longer still, I suspect) and I don't feel in need of anything else but learning how to consistently use them the way I'd like to.

Cheers

-Iván

-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), November 11, 2001.

Leica is an old man's game, at least in Japan. Whether this is because photography is an unusually popular retirement hobby there, or whether it is only old folks who have the spare cash to afford one, I don't know...

I do know that I had been photographing 20 years before I could actually think of buying an M-body. I justify all the dollars spent to my spouse by saying that I could have had a far more expensive hobby fixing up old sports cars (or something).

What I don't say is that the guys who spend $30K fixing up their Mustangs and MGs are all much younger than I was when I first felt able to afford a Leica :-). This puzzles me. Maybe they have money starting out in life, a possibility I find myself loth to admit, even as I get older. Surely the world can't be that unfair... :-)

I do know that people who are marginally interested in photography these days, and many who bought their super-duper Nikon 601s ten years ago are now thinking of wetting their toes by going digital (as in camera). Its the next thing to buy now, after DVD players. Knowledge of Leicas and Hasselblads and Rolleiflexes and Tri-X and Dektol will never reach these folks-they are all headed off on a different road, en masse.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), November 11, 2001.

It's not the cost factor: a Leica M6 and a 50mm Summicron costs no more than an EOS-1v and a 70-210 f/2.8L zoom.

Young men like flash & sizzle, loud bells & bright whistles; big, fat, long lenses; high- speed motor drives that make them look powerful and professional. Leica offers none of this.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), November 11, 2001.

I'm 24 year old Psychiatric Resident in Bangkok Thailand...Land of smile( for a nasty Problem!) I bought M4 P 4 month ago...and it change my life that I think I could never do before I shot them without meter and I can I shot at 1/8 sec & it still sharp

""""""""""Oh legendary Leica in My HAND!!!

My career don't made me much profit coz I'm in Goverment Hospital But I spent all I have to buy there also manyone wish to be a leicasnob if they can afford >>>

-- Puchong Lau (doctorpuchong@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.

I'm 27. I started a few years ago with auto-everything Nikons (N80 ams F100). They were fun to shoot but disappointing in resuilts. Then was an FM2, a great revelation. Then was a Bessa-R and M6. I can't be more happy now. Digital? Yeah, right! In 2-3 years it may approach 4000dpi scans from 35mm film, but I do not want to deal with bulk of the gear and/or terrible shutter lag og today's consumer digital gear. I tried it it is nice, but it is not for me. Rangefinders won't die, at least not on my lifetime, I hope.

-- Alexander Grekhov (grekhov@wgukraine.com), November 11, 2001.

Lemmee put it this way. I'm just about 55, I started off 30 years ago with Nikon, and ended up a year ago with a TTL. Now I can't live without Leica. If my dad had had a Leica, maybe I'd never have started off with anything else. My kiddies can inherit all my M stuff, but everything they start off with is digital anyways.

You know I'm a Leica enthusiast, and I think (and hope) I'm not all that bad a dad myself. But I don't have any good ideas how to bring young people into this forum. I like young people, and they are always welcome here, but I just don't think we absolutely have to keep on getting more and more of them to come here. Finally, concerning those "kiddies" who are already here in the forum, I don't want to get rid of them either.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 12, 2001.

I'm 25 years old... I guess that puts me in the old geezer category :)

Alfie

-- Albert Wang (albert.wang@ibx.com), November 12, 2001.

Another point to consider. Leica photography is often a philosophy of shooting style as well as a matter of high quality. Low light, environmental 'captured moments' so to speak. It usually takes a few years to hone ones shooting style to a degree that Leicas will fit the bill. After all they are not the most versatile camera in the world. If I was starting out (no matter how old), I too would probably go for what is going to do the most for the least. An SLR fits this bill perfectly. Someone mentioned cars, which I also have an affinity for. I too started out buying what was versatile (Mustangs and the such). Power, head turning ability, etc. It took me more than a few years to appreciate the value of a 1969 Alfa Romeo Berlina 1750 with wood and leather interior.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), November 12, 2001.

In support of Peter above ("It's not the cost factor...") -- and I'll try hard not to exaggerate -- Leica stuff can even be considered as a really positive cost factor. How often has a model been changed over M3, M2, M4 varieties or M6 types, and how often has this happened with Nikon and Canon over the same 47 years? I know some of us have many Ms, but if I have only one or two, I know they'll do for years to come. If I were ever to buy a (further) Nikon (or Canon etc), my first thought would always be: "just wait a year, the next model is on it's way".

(Not sure, however, what this has to do with today's youth.)

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 12, 2001.

It was 4 years ago when I bought my M6. I was 27 years old that time. Soon the Nikon F3 stay most at time in the drybox.

Until now, I never think that digital camera is suite my style; and feels that it is not totally under my control (long shutter lag, battery dependent, no film choice, impossible for long exposure etc). Deep in my heart I hope that digital camera will die, and Leica photography will live for 10,000 years!

BTW, it takes some links before I found this site. I don’t think that everybody who is keen in Leica photography know this site. As an example, I notice some regular contributor in Leica site never contribute here. Is it possible for the moderator to invite them?

Best regards, Andy

P.S: Back in 1986, I remember the time I met a 19 years old French photographer in Mount Bromo-East Java; he use a SM Leica with collapsible Elmar. He said that he works for Paris Match. It was the first time I saw a Leica…

-- Andy Wijono (andywijono@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.

When I was in college over ten years ago, my annual income (part time job and some grants) was a little more than what I just spent for a TTL and 2 lenses.

In graduate school, my monthly stipend could buy a used 35/f2Asph.

I now make a decent living, but I don't put my money where others might- no fancy stereo/video eqpt., I still drive a beat up car, very modest housing. My Hong Kong relatives really scratch their heads at this. But I guess whenever they see my camera, they recognize the brand well enough to know why.

I think Voigt.-Cosina will help bring more into the fold- it's so great to have an alternative to the all plastic/auto everything SLR yadda yadda yadda.

-- Tse-Sung (tsesung@yahoo.com), November 12, 2001.

I should add that young people, males in particular, are attracted to that which is new and 'cool.' It shows how 'hip' and 'with it' they are. Digital 'rocks'! Leica is classical. How many 50+ men do you see driving around with hard rock blaring out of the CD player in thier car?! (I still do it occasionally, of course!)

Peter Hughes Photography

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), November 12, 2001.

Dear LEICA- friends,

thank you very much for all these interesting postings. Now I´am almost reassured that there are quite a few newcomers amongst us.

There is a saying somewhere: one picture tells more than 1,000 words. This should surely apply even more to us. If we could increase to talk about pictures, the way they are succesfully made etc. and don´t count too many screws on our gear, we might find more people to join us. In this respect I really enjoyed going through all these photographs of the Family of Man 2 for example.

See link on Nov. 9th.

I would wish for more like this.

Best wishes and happy shooting

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), November 12, 2001.

Sorry, I meant Nov. the 6th.

Best wishes

-- K. G,. Wofl (k.g.wolf@web.de), November 12, 2001.