11/9-11/10 Leica day in Denver. Words from the mouth of the Leica rep (paraphrased) for your consideration and debate.

On an AE Leica M body: Leica is not working on an M7. There MAY be an M6 with aperture-priority autoexposure and electronic shutter - in the same housing as the mechanical M6, with the same size, roughly the same weight, etc. Leica is working on their own shutter that will fit in the space available. If it works and is economic to produce they will bring it to market - if it isn't, they won't. Not even CLOSE to setting a date.

On new M lenses: Nothing new is under consideration right now - most of the line has already been revised in the past 10 years. The 50 f/2 and 1.4 will not be replaced/upgraded any time soon, because Leica wants to keep them relatively low-priced (her words, not mine, 'lux buyers!). The 75 1.4 is as good as it can be. There will not be a 75 f/2 or f/2.8 or an attempt at a TE-sized 90. No improvement can be made to the Noctilux. In short, what you see is what you get.

On R lenses: Nothing we didn't already know about (15 2.8, 21-35 Vario) EXCEPT that the rep was no longer as certain that the new 'portrait' tele would be an APO 90 'cron - it may be an 80 and it may be as slow as 2.8 - she's heard (or not heard) all of the above from New York/Solms.

On digital: just pre-9/11 Leica was anxious for everyone to know they were working on R/M dit backs - now the subject has vanished. I take it the delay in the Contax N dit and the collapse of the Pentax 6-Mpixel (and also eFilm, Polaroid, etc. etc.) have them reconsidering.

What else? Rep expects Minox management to buy back the other 49% and go their own way within 2-3 years - said Leica bought Minox in the first place only to stave off a hostile takeover from Japan. The R6.2 is not being discontinued.

As usual, take all rumors with a large crystal of iodized sodium chloride. 8^)>

On a more personal note, my 23-year-old M4-2 shutter checked out with every speed from 1/1000 to 1/4 within 1/10th stop - 1/2 and 1 seconds were 30% slow. On the other hand the M4-P had the usual Leica 1/700th at the top end, and the 1/8th was a full stop off (1/15th). Gosh darn these newer bodies! They just don't make 'em like they used to!! Growwl!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), November 11, 2001

Answers

Confirmed my suspicions as usual- Leica is not known for radical change, and for very good reason. The rangefinder design is far superior for many applications and Leica strick upon good body designs early. Early lenses had alot of personality, and have been continually updated throughout the years. I think that's all that one can ask from a manufacturer that produce (IMO) the most refined 35 around. Is life without AE that bad? 90% of the time I'm using my F3 in manual, and FM2's seem just as comfortable without AE. TTL flash is a huge bonus in my opinion. Remember that these are boxes that hold film and have a focusing device (which is a large reason for my 100% F3HP- excellent prism. And yes, I'm sorry but i'm a Nikon user). I respect Leica for accepting change slowly- they may have strayed off course and lost "focus" (no pun intended). We all know of companies that have done that, I hate to say.

IMO, the M6TTL is near perfect. What more do you really want?

-- Mike DeVoue (karma77@att.net), November 11, 2001.

How do we get them to change their mind on a compact and small 75/2.8 with the Leica look? Big gap there.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), November 11, 2001.

Mike:

"What more could you really want?"

I had -briefly- an M6 TTL, but found the TTL, for my use, was useless, at the single slow speed of 1/50 or so. What is great about other cameras-pick one-(N**** FM3a:I have!)is the higher shutter speed TTL sync. If Leica could come up with a vertical metal shutter for the M6 that could sync up to 250th, it would pull me toward one again.

I realize there may be some higher noise invovled, but there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. I also realize it might not fit in the same volume as the old one, and it may require the use of electricity for operation (Gasp! Batteries -Horrors, really) but the FM3a has a hybrid electronic or fully manual shutter.

Now if only Nikon would make a rangefinder camera with those features, not to mention segmented matrix metering & balanced fill flash, that took Leica lenses?? That is what more I would want: even better if Leica would make it and keep the quality and feel,as well as well as the unbeatable glass.

Some would prefer the more versatile TTL and suffer a bit more noise. The FM3a is not as quiet as the M6, but that is not a problem when the flash is even more intrusive on the surroundings than a bit of mechanical clatter.

Notice no mention of autofocus or motor drive.

Oh ya- while I'm at it, I have been spoiled rotten by DX film coding. But, as I have said before, some 747 pilots fly piston-engined biplanes on the weekends for fun and I have an old British Norton motorcycle.

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.

sigh......

No digital.

sigh.

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), November 11, 2001.

SIGH
SIGH
SIGH

-- Oliver Schrinner (piraya@hispavista.com), November 12, 2001.

What, no motor drive for the IIIg? How much longer must we wait?

-- Tony Oresteen (aoresteen@lsqgroup.com), November 12, 2001.

What rumor? Where's the rumor? You teased me into reading this thread, WHERE IS MY RUMOR! Man!, I need a rumor!

Leica is doing nothing? That is not a rumor!

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), November 12, 2001.

Leica CEO, Hanns-Peter Cohn, is showing around the picture of the future Leica Digital camera (made with Panasonic), a camera with a fixed zoom, and it's not based on one of the two new Panasonic's with Leica lens. It will be released during the next PMA. That camera is also discussed in Leica Fotografie 8/2001 editorial.

-- Lucien (Lucien_vd@yahoo.fr), November 12, 2001.

Tom Abrahamsson of RapidWinder fame is busy designing a RW for the LTM cameras such as your IIIg.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), November 12, 2001.

"Now if only Nikon would make a rangefinder camera with those features, not to mention segmented matrix metering & balanced fill flash, that took Leica lenses?? That is what more I would want: even better if Leica would make it and keep the quality and feel,as well as well as the unbeatable glass. "

Here we go again...In order to have matrix metering they will need to increase the M body size to incorporate more metering cells, quite apart from adding a switching mechanism. And personally I see no real point in having matrix metering in the M unless it has AE. Surely one can just meter the area you want when metering manually? It is not rocket science. Surely the point of matrix metering really is for use in auto modes, for a manual camera I just do not see the point. While I too would like the M shutter flash sync to be at least 1/125, it won't happen unless the shutter is changed - and then we no longer have the legendary M shutter famed for its quietness, longevity etc. etc.

The TTL is still useful for flash photography when the light is very dim. No good for fill flash, but it is a small price to pay for the other advantages.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.

I find the M6TTL does just fine for fill flash with the SF20. I shoot a lot of Pan F Plus and APX25 ... 1/50 second is not really a problem. With fast films, use an ND filter.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), November 12, 2001.

"While I too would like the M shutter flash sync to be at least 1/125, it won't happen unless the shutter is changed - and then we no longer have the legendary M shutter famed for its quietness"

Er, I'm not sure why this is self-evident. Surely 50 years of development could have resulted in quieter, faster syncing shutters? With SLRs, I can never tell, the mirror slap just gets in the way of figuring what sound the shutter is making. Even with MLU, because the mirror slaps down, usually.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), November 13, 2001.

Mani

The reason usually quoted is that in order to get 1/125th it will need to be vertical running - a new beast entirely. I you want 1/250th then it needs to be electronically controlled vertical running. It is no longer the same M that everyone admires so much at present. "If ain't broke don't fix it".

It is not a bad thing to have an electronically controlled shutter (look in the R8) but why "fix" and possibly break a classic just to use flash, which is never high on M users priorities? The M is an available light camera.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), November 13, 2001.