I just got a billy at a sale and am ready to take him back cause of the smell. How can I tell if my 5 does are pregnant? He has only been with them for 2 weeks. Their was alot of breeding the first two days and now none. How long should I keep him to be sure?

-- Amy Sabino (seansabino@hotmail.com), November 20, 2001

Answers

Response to Breeding question.

More than likely he has done his job. Most breedings are over like this, within the first 2 weeks. But a "billy" from the auction probably isn't the healthiest of creatures, and if he was to have bred 2 of your does within a 24 hour period, he may not have had enough sperm to do both jobs. I would keep him 21 days passed the last breeding and then send him back! How sad for you to have to use a buck of this non-quality. Without any kind of background it sure will be a surprise (and more than likely if you milk them) a horrible surprise what his daughters turn out like. Perhaps by next year you can line up a nicer buck to use, something that will imporve over what you have now, more meat, more milk, even the dreaded more color :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 20, 2001.

Response to Breeding question.

Amy, I agree with Vickie, buying a buck(billy) at a sale is a good way to introduce all sorts of diseases into your herd. Even if all you want is to freshen your does, you will still have to do something with the kids. A buck is half your goat herd and an important part of your breeding program. The does usually cycle every 18 to 21 days, so keep him another week to make sure all the does are bred. Good luck.

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), November 20, 2001.

Thanks for you answers. I only use my goats for pets so their smaller size, personality, and color are all that matter. This billy met those criteria. I am keeping most of the babies and have homes for the rest and their mothers. I just want babies to hand raise as pets since all of my does are skittish. I tried to borrow a billy but my goat resources are limited around here so I didn't have a choice. I just hope he can get the job done. Thanks again Amy

-- Amy Sabino (seansabino@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

Okay, I am missing something here? Vicki, what is to be dreaded about more color? I alway thought, that the more color, the better! (within reason- some colors are just not acceptable in Alpines). To Amy, You should keep him a few more weeks, make sure everyone is bred. You don't want to have to get another buck if this one didn't get all the does, may as well hang onto this one a little longer. I can see your point about not needing top quality stock if they are just pets. But- if your pets get a disease like CL, it can really be a heartbreaker. I realize that we may sound like fancypant snobs when we talk about getting only the best quality or registered, etc. But from our point of view, it's all about longevity, because we love our goats and want them to live a long time. When goats are judgded in a show ring, two main goals are addressed- will this goat produce a lot of milk? And, can her body hold up for years? So we aren't necessarily at cross purposes. :)

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 21, 2001.

Amy, you can't breed for any of the things you are talking about, temperment, size, or color, with a buck you know nothing about. He could have black spots, but unless this is something carried throughout the bloodline he won't throw it for you. Now white, yes. His temperment is horrible you said, this could be because he is in rutt and at a new home, but his mom and sisters and now his kids, could also be like this, with him from the auction barn and unknown you don't know this. He could be small since he is stunted from disease. Cocci and worms both along with bad nutrition will stunt all goats. So perhaps he didn't grow bigger because his mom stopped nursing him at 4 weeks. His Mom could be an Alpine :) Like Rebekkah said the reason to buy or use a buck from somebody is that you can see his Mom his sisters and any kids he already has! You can see if the does at 2 or 3 have good feet and legs, have hooves that are hard to trim and have enough milk to feed their kids, etc. Paperwork of course is a bonus, since instead of taking the word of everything the breeder says you do have a paper trail. All this stuff isn't us being snobs, its the difference between having active healthy stock who are 10 and 11 and having does with such poor structure they are crippled and old at 5! The worst part being udder, no structure to an udder is a doe who can't be milked passed 5 with her udder dragging the ground, and we all have seen that.

Rebekkah, color is my pet peeve. A very nice LaMancha doe who I have doe kids coming back from is this morning being bred to a red buck. Not the black buck with the excellent dam who classified 90, who is a GCH, but a red buck, because he is red, yes he is a registered purebred etc...............:) My list by the phone is at 5, of folks wanting bucklings the day they are born. 3 of these are folks who don't care who they are out of as long as, two folks, he is spotted, and the other one wants a solid, no white at all, black buck :) The chances of me even having a solid anything buck is slim to none, and though spots do come and go here, they don't throw them consistantly, mostly splashes. Got to snicker when folks visit the farm, fawn all over the girls, come sit at the kitchen table with full view of the trophy table, then there decision comes that they want a buck or doe that looks exactly like Amber, you ask them, so you want a kid out of Amber? No.....only if it is her color :) Got to love them! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

Amy, this won't help you this year, but next year breed your does "off season". Pygmy goats are polyseasonal. That means they can be bred all year round. Most goats (at least the swiss breeds) are seasonal breeders, only expressing heats from late summer (end of Aug. - Sept.) to early winter (Jan.). I've worked with quite a few pygmy bucks, and their aroma is considerably less outside the standard goat breeding season. So, next time breed your goats in February or March (if it doesn't get too hot where you are in July and August), or in the spring for fall kidding. The buck still has an odor, but not as strong.

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), November 21, 2001.