my parents gave me the perfect graduation present: the camera of my dreams! free choice, no restrictions. i paced off to the leica dealer and got the m6 i always wanted and dreamt of and now i feel terrible. i am suddenly so unsure whether i made the right choice. this is my first rangefinder. my problems with it: -holding it. the smooth outlines do not really help to grip that thingy. i have the winder, but then it is rather high. i am always blocking one of the rangefinder windows. especially in protrait. with my old cameras i could wrap my fingers around which would give me a very secure grip. with the leica i can only hold it on the lower part. it gets even worse with attached straps. maybe someone has some tips -lack of viewfinder information. what use is an inbuild meter if you have to take away the camera the camera from the eye to check the settings? -no depth of field checking. i know there's the scale on the lens but it is still left to your imagination.

the technical specifications of the camera are all i need.

i felt so secure with my old pentax mx(i got rid of all the modern stuff) and now i am lost. if i would exchange the m6 i would go for the r6.2. i stay mith leica, because this is the only brand which camera's get not outdated. please give any comments. i couldn't sleep last night. it is only a camera, but i hope to keep it the rest of my life.

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), November 21, 2001

Answers

Stefan,

The only solution in my opinion, is to use only the M6 for six months before you decide anything. Try also one of the http://www.nemeng.com/leica/index.shtml#022b M hand-grips .

-- Lucien (lucien_vd@yahoo.fr), November 21, 2001.

Stefan,

You will be surprised at how the M6 will grow on you, just give it time. Don't expect to find it as easy as an SLR, at least at first. Sure, it's a huge change from what you're used to but that's just a matter of acclimatisation. (I remember when I first tried to ride a bicycle, I thought I'd never be able to get the hang of it). The best thing is to be patient and get plenty of practice. Using the M successfully is an acquired skill. If, after few months, you still feel that it's awkward to use, then you should probably change but, until then, enjoy learning your new camera!

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), November 21, 2001.

Stefan,

Relax, relax, r e l a x. You've made an inspired decision in my opinion.

You will soon learn to adjust speed and aperture without lowering the camera. Out of habit you will remember where you started with your settings (an initial best guess)and go from there. I mostly set the aperture first (and so have a good idea of DOF), then I use the speed dial in conjunction with the meter...focus....click!

Do others agree?

The best thing ever as far as I am concerned when it comes to holding the camera with total security and confidence is Lutz Konermann's "sling". Check out the main index under Accessories and the thread entitled "Leica M grips". (This is the best I can do as I'm useless at putting those blue clik on link things in the text) This little miracle is cheap, takes up almost no space as is simplicity itself. No I'm not on commission just a grateful user!

Hang in there Stefan and you'll wonder why you ever had doubts!

-- Tim Gee (twg@optushome.com.au), November 21, 2001.

How much do you want for the M6 (USD)?

-- Tom Dunn (lifeworkjobs@earthlink.net), November 21, 2001.

You got the best. Now it is up to you to deserve it.

Size is much like the MX. The M is a little heavier, which is good. But not heavy to the point of really requiring "ergonomic" handles on the side. It is not a P67 ! You will find your fingers will not let the little bugger slip so easily, even in portrait orientation, even with the less compact lenses and even without the winder.

You will learn to flatten the right side of the strap on the body's small side, under your right hand, in portrait mode. You might also discover how to roll the strap around your right wrist for securer handling and immediate accessibility (I still have problems with that).

It is nice having aperture/speed mentionned in viewfinder, but in Leicadom you learn to live without a dashboard. Some of us even dislike the LEDs and find them distracting (not my case)! You will learn to remember the settings from one shot to the next and to take a quick look at dials just before bringing viewfinder to eye.

You will learn not to fiddle with the settings during a short series: like with your MX, you have access to eternal settings memory lock if you wish so. And if you must, you have constant access to reliable 1/2 stop bracketing at the tip of your left hand.

You will create your own habits ("speed priority" or "aperture priority" depending on your style). It will happen fast, and you might even end up in "program mode" by turning both dials almost simultaneously, rushing efficiently for the desired LED alignement.

You will always be happy with a pristine clear viewfinder, and will use the scale on the lens for DoF tweaking. You'll quickly learn what aperture is needed to be on the best side of a head and shoulder portrait, and you already know you'll have to close down to near minimum to get your model's close up face and the monument behind in focus.

You will be extatic in low light, confidently locking focus on anything you can see, even with a wide angle, even at night. Your MX is lost there. And so would a R6.2 or even a F5.

You'll find out that Leica M lenses perform excellently wide open, and that the traditional "go for f5.6" fixture is not needed here.

You will love the fact that you can check in the viewfinder what would happen if you changed lenses, and manage your session accordingly, with confidence. You'll notice that you will change lenses ("zoom") much less often, but that you'll move more, with your eyes concentrated on your subject, and on the angles accessible around your subject.

You will love the quality that comes out of such a small package. And you will appreciate carrying your lenses in your jacket pockets. You will enjoy the visual and audio understatement conveyed by the camera in public places just as much as you will enjoy the appreciative winks from other committed photographers.

Now it is up to you. Any failure in any picture will be your fault only (cannot blame the lenses, cannot blame the body). And if your best shots will be largely due to you as well, you will need to have the modesty of acknowledging the contribution of the impeccable tool brought to you by your graduation and very bright parents! Your first task is to show them that you are worthy of such perfection... ;-)

Enjoy, you lucky b....d!

-- Jacques (jacquesbalthazar@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

Stefan:

Welcome to the "commencement" of your life as a "real" photographer.

Nothing will impell you to take better pictures than learning, by trial and error, how to get the M6 to do what you tell it to, not the other way around.

As with everything else, one learns best by doing. I invite you to get 10 rolls of Tri-X or similar film (Ilford XP2 or Kodak T400 CN if you don't do your own processing). Use 1 per week and THINK about each shot: look in all 4 corners before you squeeze the release, think about the "Rule of Thirds" for starters, go to the Kodak Website and learn about exposure and other basics, enroll in an entry level course at your old school-evenings most likely. Your school library doubtless has many books on teh subject, maybe even The Leica Handbook, or Ansel Adams The Camera; The Negative; The Print; and others by people such as Phil Davis, John Edgecoe, John Sexton among may others.

Seek out knowledgable review/critiquing of your photos. You can do this by gettng a site at www.photonet.com, a sister to this forum and inviting comments. I assume you have access to a means of scanning images.

After the 10 weeks, you may well be able to decide if you want a life long rewarding artistic avocation, or just want a few snaps of your classmates or family. You may find indeed you like an automated camera, a Leica C-1 will keep you in the family to ensure those are as good as they can be. Many photogrphers started out in other fields and expanded an avocation into a vocation.

(When you move out, can I have your room until your parents get to love me?)

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

Hello Stefan,

Welcome to the club of strange (silly?) persons who have shown the M. After 35 years of dream, I did but the first days I thought "the most expensive mistake in my life!". Same problems than yours; but be sure, Mister M needs love and perseverance and "he" will give you pleasure! By the way, my first SLR camera was also a Pentax MX, unfortunatelly robbed ... a very nice camera.

Courage, you're in the true way. regards, Alain

-- alain.besançon (alain.besancon@chu-dijon.fr), November 21, 2001.

You are right to feel terrible: You are going to become a Leicaholic, a dreadfull form of addiction to one of the most expensive drug on the market :)

When I got my first M, my first reaction was: Damn this thing is really heavy. In fact the weight is not that high, but the thing is very very compact. As for handling it takes a little while, but you will find this camera very comfortable shortly. For starters, I would suggest you to try to follow the handling instructions given in the booklet included with your camera.

Try to use the Leica exclusively for a few weeks. Keep your Pentax, a rangefinder cannot really replace a SLR (long lenses, macro,...).

Xavier

-- Xavier (xcolmant@powerir.com), November 21, 2001.

Hi Stefan,

I just did almost the same, I bought a HexarRF 2 weeks ago. For me it's also feels really complicated to focus; these are small lenses for my (big?)hands. The focussing area is only small, In this area one needs something with sufficient contrast/vertical lines to be able to focus. Can't understand (yet) why people can be so happy with this way of focussing. Never had any problems with my nikon F3 or FE! I tested e.g. on my bookshelves in low light: this is almost impossible, with all the verical lines which look similar, you have no clue to turn the lens towards infinity or towards shorter distance. It's confusing to see a lot in the viewfinder (~24mm lens) and having to think that on the picture will only be the small part which falls in the 50mm frame.

However, I for the coming weeks i will only use this camera, and i expect at a certain moment it will become second nature to focus it. (I don't have your problems of setting the shutter time, i can work in automatic aperture priority mode) Just use it a lot and let's hope we get used to the rangefinders!

Joop

-- Joop (joopmes@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

Hi Stefan:

Keep the M6. There will still be times, though, when an SLR is the best tool for the job: for these times (if you've already gotten rid of your MX), go get another used MX. It won't cost very much, you're already comfortable with it and you'll be able to find lenses for it forever. There's room in your closet for both cameras.

rick :)=

rick_oleson.tripod.com

-- Rick Oleson (rick_oleson@yahoo.com), November 21, 2001.

Stefan,

There's been a lot of good advice given already. Use the M6 for six months. You will be glad you did.

DO NOT GET RID OF YOUR Pentax MX. I use a IIIg&IIIf and I have a couple of MX and MV-1 bodies to do things that my Leicas can't: long telephotos, motor drives, macro, AE expouseure and zooms. Cameras are tools. Select the right tool for the job. You wouldn't use a roller brush to paint tiny trim areas and you woun't try to paint a wall with a tiny trim brush.

A couple of my friends had MX's that they sold years ago and everytime we get together they want me to sell them one of my MX bodies.

-- Tony Oresteen (aoresteen@lsqgroup.com), November 21, 2001.

i have to add: i am a rather experienced photographer. i started photgraphy 15 years ago and used and owned all kind of cameras (pentax, bronica, nikon, olympus, minolta). so i know pretty well how to use a camera. last year i lost my whole equipment in a burglary. worst and best day in my photographic life. my beloved collection was gone but it was insured. at that time i thought now it is time to get the leica, but i didn't. i got a perfect out of the box pentax mx with three primes. just my perfect kit. and now this present. i know many people would like to have my problem. i think using the r6.2 should not be very different from my current kit, which i can use deep asleep. i very much fancy the spot meter facility and of course the leica quality lenses.

i knew that leica provokes enthusiasm, but for me it provoked the worst crisis in this year.

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), November 21, 2001.

Tim, I agree. Stefan, I have always loved my TTL. My wife's biggest complaint is that patience is the thing I have least of. So starting to get a good hold of the thing took a few weeks. Just hang on! One of the things I love most here is doing lots of hyperfocal stuff. Wait till you start collecting lenses!

BTW -- hope you don't get me wrong here -- yes, it is only a camera, but it may live even longer than you.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 21, 2001.

i think it was ralph gibson who said that the leica is a fine instrument like a violin - it's complex to master but with practice, and determination, it will become second nature.

-- tristan tom (tristan@tristantom.com), November 21, 2001.

Stefan, just a word or two about handgrips (because this was mentioned above). If this would indeed help you to get a better feeling here or there, check out:

Leica M handgrip
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0038 oz,
Leica M hand grip & filter
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004U K5, and
Leica M Grips
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=006I tS.

There are three or four different models available at present, some of us can't seem to live without one, and I myself (as some others here) don't want to have much to do with handgrips. Finally, handgrips (again, my own personal feeling here) is not where you're really at right now... Take a little time instead and read all about it, but also in those 13 postings (oops, sorry about that number) under the heading "Philosophy of Leica" under "Older Messages (by category)".

Just trying to help get you to stop feeling so terrible. Mike

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 21, 2001.

Stefan, I use and love the Leica M6 but here I'll take the contrarian attitude. I would not want it to be my only camera. If I had only one camera system it would be an SLR. If you still have the possibility, go back to the store and check out the R6.2 or an R7 or 8. If it suits you better, go with it. As for the winder and grips: my compelling reason to use (and wowrk around the quirks of) the M6 is its compact size. Adding grips and winders to it, to me defeats its best quality.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

Not to make you feel worse, but it sounds as if maybe you should have tried using a rangefinder camera, any rangefinder, before making the full leap to the M6. As you've now discovered, using an RF is very different from operating an SLR, & RFs are definitely not for everyone. However, unless you can return the M6 & get your parents's money back, you'd might as well stick it out & see how the adjustment goes.

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@NOSPAMcris.com), November 21, 2001.

There should be some sort of law that a person can only buy the equipment they deserve and know how to use, much as a violinist works her way up from an inexpensive violin to the likes of a Stadavarius.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), November 21, 2001.

No doubt there will be plenty of volunteers to enforce this law.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 21, 2001.

Hi Rob and Peter,

I sincerely beg your pardon to slightly desagree with you: what you wish will perhaps be a form of death for the M. I recognize before buying it I didn't know how to use it, but I dreamed a Leica, I own a M, I love my M, I enjoy with it, I try to learn how to use it better and better, I hope to succeed, I wish to buy soon a 35 mm ... is there any problem here? Isn't it good for Leica?

But be sure, my best regards Alain

-- alain.besancon (alain.besancon@chu-dijon.fr), November 21, 2001.

to peter and rob: i took this personal. laws against wrong decisions, i would enforce that maybe. but also laws against stuck-up attitudes (stadavarius?)!

to all: thanks a lot. i am nearly there in keeping it. another sleepless night probably, but hopefully a decision which i can live with.

i used my cousins m3 for a while, i felt ok with it, the results very pretty good. this is why i can't understand why i am in this mess now. is it only because of the ridiculous cost of that camera or is there more behind the glass and metal.... of course i will never let go of my pentax mx. most brilliant camera. i hope one day i will be as happy and sure with the m6.

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), November 21, 2001.

Hi Stefan,

I have the opposite view from Jay's. Currently I only have an M kit and have not felt the need for an SLR kit. In fact I sold off an R8 and 4 primes recently because I never used them. When starting out with the M6 I also felt it was a big mistake. By forcing myself to use it exclusively I became more comfortable and better at working with it. Now it meets 90% of my photographic needs and I truly enjoy working with it. Basicly it comes down to your style of shooting. If you like lots of info in the viewfinder, using zooms and tele's, and pratical fill flash, and accurate framing then an Slr is for you. If you want all the qualitys Jaques mentioned get to know the M6. It was not a mistake. Take the advice of the posters who say shoot it for 6 months before making up your mind.

Regards Steve

-- Steve Belden (otterpond@tds.net), November 21, 2001.

Oh, to the contrary. The law should require all photographers to start with a Leica and then proceed from there.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), November 21, 2001.

Stefan,

Don't sweat it. You're in a perfect situation; someone else bought you a camera, which also happens to hold it's value better than most any other.

It's a win:win. If you hate it after six months, then sell it for about what your parents paid. If you love it, then you love it.

Cheers,

-- David Carson (dave@davidcarson.com), November 21, 2001.

Cameras are tools.

Some cameras, for emotional reasons, have been invested with a sort of mythical persona that results in a mixture of high cost and high perceived "quality".

But, this has nothing to do with the quality of pictures that a particular person will use a particular camera to take. That is in the person, not the camera. If you find that a camera doesn't work the way you want it to work, it's not time to lose sleep over it, it's time to get a different camera.

And, just as it really isn't correct to ascribe picture quality to the tool, it's not really right to decide whether or not someone "deserves" to use it. Clearly, anyone who can aquire the tool deserves to use it. Such statements are just arrogance and snobbery.

-- Pete Su (psu_13@yahoo.com), November 21, 2001.

"to peter and rob: i took this personal."

ahem! that was an example of the lowest form of wit... the only one I'm capable of.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 21, 2001.

Stefan, I don't think anyone has given the response as to how to actually hold the camera, and my experience it is the only and best way to do it.

Fold the middle, ring and small fingers of your left hand toward your palm, and support the weight of the camera on them. This will leave your thumb and index finger free to work the focus ring and aperture ring, while your right hand index finger is ready to change the speed and declench the shutter. At least with the 50mm lens the weight is quite perfectly balanced and you will not notice it at all soon. This is the whole point of it, becoming at ease with this wonderful camera. As others have said, use it, use it, use it. That is all it takes. Depth of field checking, that will come from cause and effect experience, same for the understanding of light levels. Above all, enjoy it, don't be afraid of it, and get out there and shoot some, many many many, rolls of film. Margaret

-- Margaret (fitz@neptune.fr), November 21, 2001.

try this for a real nice grip..........PhotoEquip@yahoo.com

-- mark kaminsky (mrry33@aol.com), November 21, 2001.

I dunno, Stefan. The Leica M just sits right in my hands, always did from the first moment I picked one up. I find it the easiest to use camera of all my cameras.

I think you're fretting because it's new to you, and expensive, and you're supposed to take the world's greatest pictures with it, and ... and .... :-)

information in the VF: I have a full information viewfinder on a couple of my other cameras and I never look at the readouts in the finder. With the Leica, I pre-set an exposure by guess, then I look at the indicators in the VF and change the settings accordingly, knowing what i've changed it to by remembering the settings and counting the click stops on aperture or shutter.

motor: I use the standard baseplate or a RapidWinder. The motor is a nice accessory for when you need it, but use the camera without it for a while to get the feel of it first.

holding: Let the camera rest in your hands on your palms. Left hand: across the bottom, with fingers curled up to work the focus. Right hand: reach up around the edge, rest your finger on the shutter release guard so that you can roll it smoothly onto the shutter button. Don't grasp the camera with clenched grip: that will make you shake. When you turn the camera for a vertical framing, you can either hold it with the shutter button down, cradling it in the right hand and working the shutter release with your thumb, or cradle it in the left hand and steady it by wrapping your right hand over the top to work the release with your index finger. I find it easier to set the focus and exposure before turning the camera for a portrait oriented composition.

Relax, take your time, remember it's just another camera. If you find after working with it for a while that you just prefer something else, heck, trade it off and get that something else. The point is to take pictures, after all...

Godfrey

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), November 21, 2001.

Stefan

You are right in many ways. The M is a totally different experience. As someone who has both cameras (M and R) the M is difficult to start with, no question, and there is no shame if you eventually decide it is not for you. This is what I decided with an M3 when I was using it as my only camera. But, I think although many people do have Ms as their only camera they are not the best tool for every job and you should feel no shame in admitting it. I like the M for its small size and the small size of its lenses, but for many other things I prefer the R6.2. Personally I find changing M lenses to be a fiddly process compared to the larger R lenses and hence if you are going to do a lot of this then an R is easier. But you really should persevere for at least 6 months. The quiet shutter is a joy and the viewfinder is great for 35-90mm lenses, but in my opinion much outside this range it is easier with a reflex. But the M is a wonderful experience and you need some time to acclimatize yourself to its whims.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

Stefan, we still don´t know what kind of photography do you do, but being an experienced photographer will make it easy for you to discover all the goods of the M system,it is the kind of tool you feel just fine using appling your experiences, it is not a camera for beginers, even when at first as an experienced photographer it takes time to get use to it. I´m sure if you decide to keep it, your way of seeing that camera will change, and provably your way to make photography too.

I recomend to practice focusing, even without taking any picture just focusing things at diferent distances, then discover how fast can it be, there is not faster finder in the photography market.

The best of luck, with the new toy.

BTW, when I was a teenager I always dream with a MX, but never got it, intead I got a Canon A1, and then a nikon, but only Leica M has presuaded me to have four of them, I still want a M6.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

Remember Mark Twain's story about the rocking horse?

-- Wilhelm (bmitch@home.com), November 21, 2001.

It's really important to use a camera that you actually like....not necessarily the one someone else recommends. The M is not everyones cup of tea.Having said that....I think the M is one of those rare things in life that is ABSOLUTLY PERFECT ...for what it was concieved to be!

-- Emile de Leon (knightpeople@msn.com), November 22, 2001.

Some excellent advice here. I agree, using a camera you like makes all the difference. Sure, as the old pros say, "it's just a tool", but it pays to have the right tool. I wonder if it's a case of what you are used to? My first serious camera, 26 years ago, was an Olympus rangefinder and although SLRs can do a helluva lot, rangefinders still feel more natural to me somehow. Keep practising! I'm sure it will grow on you.

-- David Killick (Dalex@inet.net.nz), November 22, 2001.

Stefan, just to get back to what Steve said up there (having the opposite view from Jay's), I can't help restating the following: I started off with almost a dozen Nikons (which is, yes, a good company) but ended up selling everything. Never regretted that. I now have a TTL and love everything about it (except it's lack of a self-timer) and my only worries today concern how I can afford to add which M and which lens next. Yes, many of us have one or more Ms plus one or more SLRs, but I somehow belong to the other crowd here who has come to stick to an M (or to Ms or LTMs) but doesn't want to have anything more to do with SLRs. All this has been said before in several postings. The last time was this morning under "Which SLR to Complement Leica M6TTL" (http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0077 F4).
 

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), November 22, 2001.

i will keep it. i decided. thanks a lot to all, you did a fine job.

now i have a few more questions. *to godfrey, it never occured to me to use my tumb, but "...or cradle it in the left hand and steady it by wrapping your right hand over the top to work the release with your index finger..." left or right index finger?

*is there any remedy against viewfinder patch flaring?

*is it normal, that the preview lever is not absolutely upright with the 50mm and wobbles around by 1mm?

stefan

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), November 22, 2001.

Stefan,
re. flare remedy: http://www.konermann.net/shade.html
I don't know how well it works - I use a M4 so I do not have that problem.

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), November 22, 2001.

Stefan: You think too much. Just shoot a lot. Try to shoot fast, your hands will position themselves. Same thing the rangefinder flare: If you begin to think about it, you will obsess about it. If you don't think about it, your eyes/body will move and solve the problem for you. About your wobbly lever: Is it really important?

Remember: Just shoot. You can do it blank at the beginning. If you're not a pro. photog, impose yourself a minimun amount of film to burn each week. Personally, I have a dose of 2. Some weeks, I have to force myself to reach this level. When I'm in good shape, I burn 5/6 rolls. If I'm present at an interesting event, it can be more. I get a lot of crap, but who cares. Mistakes can teach you much more than good results.

-- Xavier (xcolmant@powerir.com), November 22, 2001.

Stephan,

The transition from SLR to RF is a bumpy one. I did it 17 years ago. It meant relearning photography but it's good. Keep the M-6. Give yourself a year. You'll be amazed.

Alex

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), November 22, 2001.

The M is a 2 handed camera. And it does have it's quirks. It will grow on you and become an extension of your eye....or it won't. It is a very specialised camera. Very limited in application actually. The R's have a much wider range of practicality.

Fiddle, play, shoot a whole lot of film...(if you can figure out how to load it...). If you like it, it will become an addiction. If you don't, sell it. You won't loose much of it's value if you keep it clean.

-- Simon Wong (drsimonwong@hotmail.com), November 23, 2001.

I also had some buyer's remorse after getting my M6TTL. I would think, "Geez, I could have bought an Nikon F100 with a 17-35 AF-S for what I paid for this." But then I would remember why I dumped my Nikon gear: it was too big and conspicuous for my needs. It sat in the closet for months. Even though the M6 has its idiosyncracies I find it lets me "see" instead of limiting my vision the way that SLRs had. The M6TTL + 35cron has rekindled my passion for photography. Give it some time. Carry it with you everywhere for a few weeks. You'll "see".

-- Ken Geter (kgeter@yahoo.com), November 23, 2001.

i just got my first set of films back. not really a revelation, rather a disappointment. never mind, i will keep on practicing.

stefan

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), November 24, 2001.

Stefan, I don't want to rile you again ;-) but what are you using the camera for? I would suggest that if you have a project which is of consuming personal interest to you, you'll start worrying less about the camera and more about the images, and only then will you be able to determine (paradoxically) whether this type of camera is suitable for your needs. If - as it sounds a bit from what you've said - you're secretly hoping that having this piece of hardware will transform your _vision_, then you're bound to be disappointed.

You're comment that Leica is the only brand whose cameras don't get outdated seems to me to indicate that your concern is more with brand than image making, if I'm wrong forgive me. No camera will make you a better photographer, just as no make of pen will make you a better writer, although Rilke _did_ write on handmade paper with a gold- nibbed pen. The vision comes first and the camera must fit that. Personally i use leicas because they're compact (_not_ lightweight, with rapidwinders!) and I can be certain to get in focus shots 99% of the time.

Anyway, I hope it gets better.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 25, 2001.

Hi Stefan,

What type of film did you shoot and where did you send it? There are many variables here. What are you comparing these images to? My recomendation is to shoot professional slide film and process in a professional lab, or shoot B&W and process it yourself. This should minimize a lot of the processing variables. Let us know your subject matter and what you are trying to capture. You will get lots of useful and practical tips on this forum.

Keep shooting

Steve

-- Steve Belden (otterpond@tds.net), November 25, 2001.

what i bought that camera for? i use a camera as a kind of personal notebook. like a diary. i try to express my way of seeing my surrounding. therefor i mainly use 50mm. it is not the total, it is the part of it that interests me. i read a lot about the qualities of the rangefinder window to see also what is around the actual frame and pick your picture in context. the anti-tunnel. i mainly shoot black and white. sometimes colorneg. i went away from slides. i have boxes of them in my parents attic. although i love the quality, it allows more personal contact with a print for those you show them to. they decide the speed and the viewing distance. it is easier to communicate.

when i was still in university (see beginning of the thread), i spend a lot of time in the b&w darkroom. although i still could use it i am not so keen on it. at the moment i am using the highstreet d&p, which is a bit disapointing if you are used to your own prints. i think of going to try the wet/dry approach (b/w-development at home or slides, than scanning and computer prints. many of you probably will cry out, but i think this is a good way for me to go.

stefan

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), November 25, 2001.

a word to the brand thing. this is not only a very expensive toy for me, it is a very speacial gift from my parents to commemorate a important event in my life. i just don't think a nikon f5, as good as it is, would do that to me in 50 years. my cousin is using his grandfather's m3, which he was given for his silver wedding anniversary. i think there are few material things which span the times as well as a leica m. and: it seems to be a good camera for many to use today, i hope also for me....

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), November 25, 2001.