It looks to me as if free-floating troublemakers, not really associated with any forum, have convinced Dennis Olson and company that Unk's as a forum is out to get them. And it may be a very small number of these troublemakers (two?) because of the considerable talent sometimes shown in shape-shifting. I don't know any of the people over at Dennis's, but if someone does know these folks and could explain things to them, this trouble we're having might stop.

-- Peter Errington (petere7@starpower.net), November 26, 2001

Answers

And let me say something else: there seem to be a handful of people for whom being right on Y2K was the absolute high point of their mouseturd existence, and who want to relive that wonderful experience forever.

-- Peter Errington (petere7@starpower.net), November 26, 2001.

Peter, it isn't anyone from Dennis' group.

-- helen (trust@is.a.funny.concept), November 26, 2001.

I've been communicating with Dennis on this subject via E-mail for the past week or so, Peter. In his mind, if WE let the scum continue to post, we've joined the cesspool with them. IMO, the internet is a no-win proposition. There's always going to be SOMEONE who has something bad to say about us. That's just the way it is. I think we saw an example of that right here on Ken's Happy Thanksgiving post.

Partly because I'm a coward, and mostly because I don't care much what's said on the internet, I can simply ignore stuff posted about me that isn't so favorable or guesses at my personal life or location. Dennis can't seem to ignore the trolls. He's bent on getting even with them.

I'd agree with you that it's most likely only one or two people. The school holiday should be ended now. That might slow the trolling.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Anita, what the hell does Dennis think we can do to stop them?

-- Peter Errington (petere7@starpower.net), November 26, 2001.

there seem to be a handful of people for whom being right on Y2K was the absolute high point of their mouseturd existence, and who want to relive that wonderful experience forever.

This is true, Peter. It's the reason why I stopped posting at Poole's. I don't care what Paula [and I already forgot her last name] is saying now. I don't care what Gary North is saying. I was unaware of all of these people before Y2k, and I'm quite capable of using my selective memory to be unaware of them NOW.

As far as I'm concerned, some of us met during Y2k discussions, but Y2k is long gone and dead. Life has and will continue to allow us to develop philosophies and some will be right and some will be wrong. None of us wake up in the morning and say, "I think I'll make the wrong decisions today." We do what we feel best at the time, based on the data available at the time.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Anita, what the hell does Dennis think we can do to stop them?

Well, it sounded to me like he wants us to stop posting at Unk's. MY particular form of retaliation [for lack of a better word] is to continue posting on topics of interest to me, while ignoring the threads of no interest. IMO, if we stop posting, we've let the trolls win.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Dennis' opinion on our troll situation is irrelevant. It isn't anyone from that board.

-- helen (blindingly@obvious.who.it.is.not), November 26, 2001.

Helen: NOBODY has said that it was anyone from that board. Hell. It could have been some kid(s) home from school for Thanksgiving. The point IS that Dennis is in retaliation mode, and fears for the safety of himself and his family. He's told ME that he's going to get even with "Unk's trolls, and SOON." I don't know how to answer that. Do you?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

BTW, I've E-mailed Dennis regarding this thread. He can come over and explain his fears himself. He's posted here before and seems to have the password, so I don't foresee any problems in that regard.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

I just went over to the wild west forum... Sad. I won't post over there anymore, not the way that mess is...

snoozin'...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

I cleaned up lots of 'baby poop' yesterday and learned some new HTML while I was at it. :) I think Dennis is a decent person, but he, like many on that forum live for an 'adrenaline rush'. They're at their 'peak' when there is a crisis... even if it's only fabricated in their minds. I read on a recent thread at TB2000 where he banned RKBA (Ron) because of things he said on a DIFFERENT forum. He said he banned him "just in case." That's paranoia imo.

Helen has firsthand knowledge of what a wonderful thing Dennis and his wife did for that young mother and her baby. So, why does he let taunts from trolls bother him? What Anita says doesn't surprise me. I think he over-reacts. But, I don't think this latest wave of attacks was him. I know of another poster who has been asking lots of questions about Java-scripting. My guess would be, it's that individual.

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Welcome back, Dog! :)

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Seems to me that unless you can identify exact IP #'s it is ALL speculation as to who has done what.For all we really know it could be someone from the other board that doesn't like Dennis and figures this is a great way to stir shit in both directions, but again, speculation.

On the other hand, who really gives a shit? except for Unk, he's the one that has to deal directly with this cluster fuck and that I hate to see.Like Anita said, it's easy to turn it off and give it the creedance it really deserves, which is notta.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 26, 2001.

Way back when the rollover happened Lady Logic decided she was joining us debunkers.

Being naturally cynical, brought up around males, used to trying to get my point across, usually seen as in a rude way, she e-mailed me.

An email full of gushing complements, her desire to "talk" to me, asking me to give her my phone number so she could call me.

I had been on line for 4 years. I was no rookie, easily coerced into giving out private information.

Not being used to being complemented like that, gushing, supposed adoration of my misspelled, run-on writings about embedded stuff, I felt a big warning alert go off. My eyes narrowed, I reread the email and wondered what her game was. I had learned at a very young age that personal information, weaknesses told could turn around and be used against you. I don't trust easily. So I thought, oh yea..what is your game lady?

I wrote back and told her to give me HEr phone number and I would call her. (Using a phone card-my number has been blocked since I had foster kids for safety). No go. She wasn't interested. But I noticed that she did manage to manipulate a few people into talking to her, pretending to be a good listener and coercing them into revealing information and private facts which she then turned around and publicly used against them. For years now. I know I "gathered" information just from people's posts, I knew things about them. I imagined her on the phone, sympathizing with people, drawing out information she could attack them with. Now I do not even acknowledge her existence, it only vitalizes her. I honestly think she is a drunk, who has little control of herself and is really mentally off. Had a neighbor like her, you can't believe people like that exist, but unfortunately, they do. Her ego is not low, it is subterranean.

The only think that has bothered me about her is how she has used and tried and managed to hurt some people who are important to me.

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), November 26, 2001.

It was Paula Gordon and like Anita, I don't care what she is saying today. The world is full of crackpots, shills, con artists, survivalists, tax evaders, constitutionalists, neo-Luddites, etc. Most of us would have never encountered the lunatic fringe save the Y2K event. This is one reason the Y2K event was so compelling. Y2K was a catalytic event and the Internet was the perfect medium. It was "must-see TV."

Dennis Olson may be a wonderful human being. He also strikes me as a card-carrying member of the lunatic fringe. Personally, I think many of the serious Y2K doomers were nice folks... and often eccentric. Dennis has to realize that using one's real name carries a price tag. Still, I can hardly believe that Dennis or his family are in any real "danger." So he's an unreconstructed doomer. Who cares? Aside from Laura aka Lady Logic, most of the mentally unbalanced behavior I witnessed was from the doomsayers.

All of the Internet name-calling doesn't add up to a hill of beans. Dennis needs to grow a thicker skin, or just stop reading the fora.

Like the Dog, I think the Wild West has degraded into anarchy. For me, it's not worth the time or trouble. Do the trolls win? Probably, but the real victory they seek is the attention. Without an audience, the trolls win nothing.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 26, 2001.

Never mind the troll. I've got a real problem!

In trying to reassure the "anti-smallpox-vaccine-because-it's-untested-aborted-fetal-tissue-and-a-way-to-implant-chips-in-my-arm" crowd that the smallpox vaccine is relatively safe, I've offered pics of my arm while I'm being vaccinated.

Does anyone know Linda Hamilton's trainer? I NEED BICEPS NOW!

-- helen (does@lifting.my.spoon.count?), November 26, 2001.

Helen, is it possible to receive smallpox vaccine now?

-- (lars@indy.net), November 26, 2001.

I realize that this post is probably not worth a pitcher of warm spit to many, but I'll try to explain in any event.

This latest round of trolling has (IMO) degenerated into cyber- stalking. That's one thing that I'll not tolerate. It's one thing for the various assholes involved to say "sold any babies lately?" It's another to threaten my family. And yes, I have gotten a couple of emails to that effect in the past few days. Coupled with that has been a serious assault on my good name and reputation. (The "Janesville" thing.) Last time I checked, malicious slander was illegal. Can it be true that you folks approve and/or condone such crap?

So, what's the answer? I dunno really. Personally, any posts that threaten anyone or reveal personal information about someone should (IMO) be removed. Rules of nettiquette should be enforced. It seems that on Unk's open board, "free speech" has been equated to "hate- filled anarchy". That ain't free speech kiddies. And some of what's going on is illegal.

I found out that a "board owner" can, under certain circumstances, be held responsible for what's posted on a board. It was a real eye- opener for me, I gotta tell ya.

Rest assured that I have not attacked Unk's in any way at this time. Nor to the best of my knowledge has anyone else from my board.

IMHO, the reason that I have been singled out is that I DARED to keep TB2K alive, thus robbing the troll-creatures of their much sought- after "victory" over the Doomers. That fact, coupled with my telling the busybodies to take a hike over the baby thing (it was, after all, none of their collective business), served to enrage a small segment of trolldom.

So, I can only be pushed just SO FAR. After that, I WILL fight. That point has been reached. If the slanderous atatcks on my character and "outing" posts continue, there will be consequences for the open board. I do not yet know what those consequences shall be, but I am pursuing every option at this time.

I am continually amazed that the decent people among you allow these creatures to inhabit your world. They ruined Unk's to the point where HE had to open a passworded forum. That fact alone speaks far louder than I ever could as to the environment of the main board.

I respect the decent people among you, and have no animosity toward you. But I've had it with the BS and crap being heaped upon me from Unk's. Something's gonna give. That's a "done deal".

I know that many of you think I'm a nutcase. I really don't care. In reality I'm about as mainstream as you can get. But I CANNOT STAND being pushed around by bullies, either in cyberspace or meatworld.

If ANYONE shows up at my door and attempts harm to myself or my family, they WILL be met with a reception that they'll remember the rest of their lives (however short that might be). Mind you, this is not an empty threat. I am deadly serious here, and have more than adequate means to back it up, and the dedicated willingness to make it happen.

That's my position. To those who think I'm nutz, cool. That works for me. To the rest of you, I hope I have made it plain where I'm coming from. Most of you are decent people, who are allowing the cyber equivalent of a biker gang take over your house. You have to fight back at some point. Only YOU know where that point is. MY line has been crossed.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

Lars, No it is not. They were discontinued in 1972 for the population. I got one as a kid, don't think I got one in Basic because I already had one, but that was almost 30 years ago and even my nurse cannot find a small-pox scar on me.

There is only enough vaccine for a few million, I watched congressional hearings where they talked about watering it down to make it go further. But only the military get it, and if it is given out, it will go to people in power, those who can coerce a dose or buy one illegallly??

From what I have seen and read, the best thing we can do is find a cow with cowpox, use it's infected discharge from it's udders to scrape our children's arms to give it to them, which inoculates them against small-pox. They will get cowpox, but it is not often fatal. This was discovered by a farmer in England(?) in the late 1700's. What pisses me off is that no one wanted to make the vaccine for decades, now they think (pharmisutical companies) they can do business as usual, bid on a contract to make it, take 5 years to build the facilities to do so and have it for us in 7-10 years. I don't think so, but if the public doesn't start paying attention, that is what is going to happen. It is our children's lives they are playing politics with.

helen, in all of the years of traveling as I grew up with Dad in the military, and my own time in, I know of absolutly no-one who ever died from getting the vaccine.

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), November 26, 2001.

If someone has broken the law, Dennis, it is your responsibility to address the crime through proper channels. "Slander" is a civil matter. Personally, I think you would have a devil of a time trying to bring a successful action against the "trolls" at the Wild West forum.

On the Wild West, it is up to Deedah, the forum administrator, to "enforce" any rules. Is Unk "obliged" to delete posts containing personal information? It's an interesting legal question, but I think you'd have a tough time proving Unk's liability for statements made by others. The forum was clearly established to allow "free expression." Usually, First Amendment considerations make this a difficult (and expensive) challenge.

I have been singled out, Dennis, and not because I stood against Y2K hysteria... but because a few people are mentally unbalanced and vindicative. So it goes. There was no "victory" or "defeat." The entire Y2K debate was a tempest in a teapot. At worst, a few egos were bruised while the rest of the world enjoyed a great fireworks show.

If you feel compelled to take action against the Wild West, feel free. Personally, I think the more you react, the more you encourage the trolls. Ever hear of the "tar baby?"

Finally, I don't think you are insane... just eccentric. Stan Farina was a nice fellow who just became lost in the Y2K rush. You remind me of him. Here's my advice, wanted or not. Take a deep breath and delete the bookmark to the Wild West. If need be, change your email address. Ignore the trolls and they will eventually find other hobbies. Blustering hints about gunplay will only redouble their efforts.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 26, 2001.

First, Cherri -- cowpox has pretty much been erradicated from this country, so don't scrape ANYTHING off a cow and into yourself. That method usually caused infection anyway.

Dennis -- the trolls (maybe only one person) are over at Unk's causing trouble supposedly in your name, which is just another troll game to cause trouble for YOU. Lusenet doesn't have much of an option regarding trolling, as the passworded option is easily breached. I'm not sure Unk is the "owner" and I hope you aren't planning legal action against him. Face it, us "decent" people aren't able to do anything but get out of the way or ignore it. I defended you the only way I know how on that board. If anyone is threatening you in real life, then by all means take legal action -- but not against Unk. And don't lump all of us in with trolls because we don't "do anything" about it.

-- helen (biceps@people.talk.biceps), November 26, 2001.

Helen, I have no intention of taking legal action against Unk, unless my family is harmed as a direct result of something posted to that board. I just wanted to point out that I got a very unwelcome education to the effect that it is indeed possible for a "baord owner" to be liable for what gets posted on the board. Unk IS the owner. The "host" is the Greenspun domain.

The entire Y2K debate was a tempest in a teapot.

Truer words were never spoken.

And I no longer reply in ANY way on Unk's main board. I only came here at Anita's request, and because I figure that most of you who post in here are the "decent" folks. But again, I put it to you: The fact that Unk (of all people) had to open up a PASSWORDED forum speaks louder than I EVER could about the "quality" of life out on the main board.

Life in this sub-forum is decent. Too bad you had to come in here to get some peace. Is running away really what freedom of speech is all about? Personally, I don't think so...

YMMV

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

Dennis, "running away" is often a consequence of free speech. >;)

-- helen (and@another.thing), November 26, 2001.

I guess it doesn't really matter anymore, Unk just closed the Wild, Wild West. Thank God Dennis' reputation won't suffer anymore.

That is unless they happen to view any of the threads over at TB2K.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 26, 2001.

A passworded forum does not negate free speech. There is no censureship of opinion here.

-- (lars@indy.net), November 26, 2001.

JBT, on TB2K I am not defamed and slandered. Further, the staff TRIES to make sure that no one else is either. Those aspects of "free speech" are NOT protected by the 1st - just ask the SC.

I am surprised that Unk closed the main board. But in all reality, it had become a worthless slime pit.

This room seems to be a decent place. Most of you here are decent people, whom I have respected for a long time. I just wanted you all to know that before I drop back into the woodwork...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

No problems Dennis. I had some reservations about a passworded forum, but those were effectively negated by what has come to pass on the other forum.

Such juvenile behavior is uncalled for, and any personal threats in cyber space should not be condoned at all.

Take care...

Growlin' under the bridge...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

I made the same "tempest" observation in 1999, Dennis though I do not remember it as warmly received. Moving forward, there isn't really any "main" board left. TB 2000 fragmented into many pieces; the Wild West was just one.

I imagine dicourse here will be more pleasant than TB 2000 or its offspring (including your forum). In exchange for comfort, we sacrifice some energy. Is this "running away?" Perhaps. I note, however, that this move differed from the TB 2000 retreat to EZB. The actions of one or more mentally unbalanced individuals made the Wild West untenable. This included childish code manipulations. The "lock" on EZB was intentioned to keep out conflicting ideas and people. While Flint has had unpleasant moments, his "disruption" of a forum consisted only of writing disagreeable essays... not stalking. He was banned from EZB. I trust Deedah will be somewhat more inclusive as your presence proves.

I am sorry your feelings were hurt, Dennis, but that is often the nature of discourse. Despite your protestations, the Supreme Court does not protect the right of your "reputation" above the right of free expression. Unfortunately, you seem to miss my primary point. The blustering against your critics only inspires them. Until you learn this lesson, you will only reward those who you seek to punish.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 26, 2001.

Despite your protestations, the Supreme Court does not protect the right of your "reputation" above the right of free expression

Mr. Decker, if that statement were true, there would be no libel and slander laws. Your statement is false on its face.

And there are only three people banned from TB, LL being one of them. The other two brought it on themselves. Flint (and YOU for that matter) are free to post to TB whenever you feel like it. You are evidently still under the same prejudice that TB in its current incarnation is substantially identical to the earlier ones. With all due repsect, that's a load of bull.

Why don't YOU try to drop your prejudices and look for yourself. Free speech is not censored on TB. Rather, people must maintain some level of decorum. Perhaps many of the folks at the erstwhile Unk's find that level of self-control to be untenable. So be it.

IMHO that was the single "personality defect" on Unk's, that no one was held accountable for horrid behavior. And that behavior was the ultimate cause of the demise of the open board. The fact that this board is open, and the old one is not is proof of my position...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

"And there are only three people banned from TB, LL being one of them. The other two brought it on themselves. Flint (and YOU for that matter) are free to post to TB whenever you feel like it."

Maybe true for Flint but not anyone else. You aren't accepting new registrations remember.

"Why don't YOU try to drop your prejudices and look for yourself. Free speech is not censored on TB. Rather, people must maintain some level of decorum. Perhaps many of the folks at the erstwhile Unk's find that level of self-control to be untenable. So be it.

IMHO that was the single "personality defect" on Unk's, that no one was held accountable for horrid behavior."

And from your earlier post:

"JBT, on TB2K I am not defamed and slandered. Further, the staff TRIES to make sure that no one else is either. "

Both statements are untrue. Let me say one word: INVAR.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 26, 2001.

Dennis...HOW were we supposed to hold anyone accountable for what s/he posted? It's not like we could spank 'em, and besides, that's a service that costs good money these days and not something I hand out for free.

-- helen (ahem@AS.YOU.WERE), November 26, 2001.

JBT, TB will reopen for new members when we've moved to the new servers, and when this current flap dies down. There is no intention of maintaining a closed board. It was a necessary thing to do at the time. ("Server busy. Try again later.")

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

Helen...

ROFL!

People are held accountable by potentially removing their ability to post on a forum. If they are too disruptive, out they go. Invar and I have had several email "chats". He knows. But Invar doesn't constantly attack the way the trolls did on Unk's open board. In most cases, Invar makes a point and that's it.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

Theres a difference between horrid behavior and destructive coding, horrid behavior might fall into the category of "he told me to fuck off!!!", while destructive coding is downright vandalism.

I liked the premise of the WWW but with such non-constraints those that would push the envelope, did.I truly dug the concept, and as Ken has pointed out, the trade off in being here is worth it.It's the next best thing.

Who needs the decorum police standing over their keyboard? Sorry Dennis, but I'm afeared that your board criteria is too heavy handed for moi, I'm alluding to the "Take it outside" section of you board, it wouldn't be there if it weren't needed, as per your specs.

Maybe we will ultimately shed the diehard Y2K'ers and be able to have what we envision, maybe it'll take moving to the *other* side of the net, still yet distancing ourselves from those halcyon days of pre rollover.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 26, 2001.

I'm just hanging around waiting for the next gathering...hint...hint...

-- helen (unktrek@the.next.generation), November 26, 2001.

Well, I for one certainly enjoyed visiting Unk's in the early days, before it became a cesspool. I feel badly for you all who have to pack up and find a new home. Cap'n, I understand where you're coming from. I can't say that you are incorrect about the "decorum police". But we do have a very vibrant place, and a bunch of VERY heated discussion goes on there, but without (for the most part) the hate and anger that seemed to permeate Unk's open board (as well as TB2K pre-rollover).

You will be welcome there. All you gotta do is TRY to separate the PERSON from the OPINION. We don't always succeed (myself included), but we always try...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

Dennis, I've already been called a sheep over there today. As a doomer of long standing, I find that personally insulting in the extreme. Moi, a sheep! And to have been called a sheep on a doomer board that looks like a kindergarten compared to the open warfare of the original TB! I'll have you know that INVAR and I had cordial discussions before that -- person -- who called moi a sheep ever heard of doomerism. I demand a recount. No, a recant!

-- helen (baaaa@baaaaa.baaaaa), November 26, 2001.

"It's not like we could spank 'em, and besides, that's a service that costs good money these days and not something I hand out for free."

You mean I'm supposed to be charging? Oops! ;)

-- Pammy (lol@helen.again), November 26, 2001.

I'll probably end up going to the "free discussion" forum. I sure as hell know that I don't want to go to TB2k. I consider myself an adult. I can deal with adult matters in an adult way without throwing tantrums. I don't want, nor need a moderator to control what people on the internet think about me. I'm not at all worried that cyberstalkers will come to my home and harm me. I'm not at all worried about my reputation. I am who I am. If you don't like it, it's of no concern to me.

I want a grown up internet playground. I don't want one with a mother or father standing by to suggest that what I said isn't appropriate. I don't care if some people think I'm playing in shit when others come in and post what they think. That's the real world. I LIKE the real world. I'm not interested in cocoon-living.

This is not to say that THIS forum is cocoon-living, but I'm gonna miss the folks who choose not to send Unk an E-mail [for fear of giving out their own E-mail address]. I'm not going to miss Laura, and I'm not going to miss the trolls that created havoc, but I'm going to miss the posts by those with whom I've never agreed. I'll miss J. I'll miss Ain't gonna happen, and I'll miss the others who refuse to post on an "exclusive" forum.

IMO, Laura, Dennis, and the OTHER trolls won. May their victory be ever so sweet.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

I dunno. I see the demise can be faulted to a weakness in LUSENET, as well. Maybe Phil has some reason for not limiting what can be placed in the Email Address and Name fields, but it seems like an oversight [bug] to me. There are always people looking to exploit such weaknesses...

This is one of those "hindsight-is-20/20" things, that I'm taking as a personal lesson. You may remember or not, it started with my open challenge to anyone: can you reply to a thread without a reply button? ...this was shortly after the disruptions started. Since I couldn't figure it out myself, I issued the challenge. Then, I took up my own challenge and figured out how to do it with Opera. For all I know, others already knew a way to do it and just kept quiet about it. However I didn't think they did, since the proof of the pudding is in the baking.

Then it became open discussion. Thanks to whoever created the "Universal Contribute an Answer" button to reply from another thread, it became even easier to accomplish it. To me, the challenge was fun as well as a help.

Of course it was not *necessary* to fix the threads this way, since Unk could always fix it from behind the scenes. But this way, the forum was not waiting on him to do it.... we could do it. But I suppose the outcome was predictable... the saboteurs got the attention that they wanted and then escalated. They used the open-tag trick to do further damage that users could NOT fix. Course they might have done so regardless....

It's not too hard to see it now. The silent special ops team approach would've been the better way to deal with the "enemy." That is, keeping it to private email between trusted posters. But it helps to realize you HAVE such an enemy and I didn't see it that way. I don't EXPECT people to take things to a personal level as they did...

-- Debbie (dbspence@pobox.com), November 26, 2001.

Debbie,

Never, ever underestimate the potential for human beings to sink to depths of unimaginable behavior.

P.S. I was going to say to sink to depths of unimaginable depravity but I noticed Pammy was here and I thought I would try to keep the discussion at a higher plane.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 26, 2001.

Never, ever underestimate the potential for human beings to sink to depths of unimaginable behavior.

That single statement was amply proven on Unk's open board. Many times.

You know, crap like what happened on Unk's other board leads me to ask... What is the "real" adult board? Unk's, or the current TB? I suggest that you give that question a bit of thought before answering. Because if you're REALLY honest with yourselves, I don't think you're gonna like the answer.

And Anita, If *I* am a troll, what do you call the creatures that hung out on Unks that made me look like a saint? That's just TOO funny...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

"I was going to say to sink to depths of unimaginable depravity but I noticed Pammy was here..."

I used to be Snow White, but I drifted. :)

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

And Anita, If *I* am a troll, what do you call the creatures that hung out on Unks that made me look like a saint? That's just TOO funny...

I consider them trolls, as well. I'm not interested in "saintly" behavior, Dennis. I want folks to be who they are. I may not like who they are, and they may not like who *I* am, but at least I understand that we're playing on an even playing field where neither MY mom/dad nor theirs will come in and remove us.

I noticed your post to the Open Discussion Forum. You can't stand the idea of open discussion, it seems. You ASSUME that the trolls will follow, and you ASSUME that Unk started that forum [even though Unk has NEVER been known to lie, and said he'd received the link in an E-mail.}

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Anita,

The trolls will follow because that's what they do. They attack and destroy otherwise decent places. That's why I don't understand why you place me into that category. I don't remember ever treating people the way I (and others) have been treated on Unk's open board.

And I believe that Unk started the new place because he's not a quitter, but he could no longer allow himself to be held responsible for any injury or attack that may have resulted from posts on his other board. If he didn't start it himself, he worked with another member of the old board to set it up.

I will say this FOR THE RECORD: as long as we on TB are left alone, I will drop the entire matter and consider it closed. But if it spills over and starts up again, well, I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from. We on TB have only very rarely in the past year EVER said anything about Unk's or any of the "known personalities" there. To the very best of my knowledge, no member of TB has EVER attacked Unk's board. I have regularly posted requests for members to leave Unk's alone.

I would expect that trend to continue. We are not the slightest bit interested in what goes on outside of our community, unless threats or slanderous accusations are made.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 26, 2001.

For those of you who wish to talk right now, some of us are in chat here:

http://www.homestead.com/keast/CHAT.html

-- Aunt Bee (Aunt__Bee@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

"We are not the slightest bit interested in what goes on outside of our community."

Speak for yourself, Dennis

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Anita, thank you for defending my honor. I really do try my damnedest to avoid telling any lies, but I have on occasion decided to bend the truth a bit, AKA a little white lie of no consequence.

Even though I am sure I have no idea who Mr Mystery X is, he won't need to worry about his reputation, nor worry about misguided lawsuits.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeeD@yahoo.com), November 26, 2001.

One other point.

You know, crap like what happened on Unk's other board leads me to ask... What is the "real" adult board?

Dennis, I don't know about "real" adult board, but I sure do know which board's software prevents the admin from stopping a few vandals bent on distruction. That place wasn't closed because of what folks were saying, it was closed because cleaning up after the hooligans was too time consuming.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeeD@yahoo.com), November 27, 2001.

cleaning up after the hooligan's was too time-consuming

Ditto for me. I DO have a life, and just didn't have the time (or the inclination) to check the darned thing three times a day for the latest Javascript gadget in a title or email address. Deleting the things is a pain, too.

Of course, you had it a *LOT* worse than I did, because you have a *LOT* more traffic than I did.

Thanks for letting me post here, by the way.

Will you delete me if I start telling knock-knock jokes? :)

They're really GOOD ones ...

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), November 27, 2001.

Delete!

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 27, 2001.

But JBT, you didn't even hear the jokes yet. ;)

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Dedicated to a certain mysterious lady:

Knock, knock Whose there? Argo Argo who? Argo fuck yourself

-- Mr. Laffs (ho@ho.ho), November 27, 2001.

Mr. Laffs, perhaps you should keep your 'day job'? ;)

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Stephen,

You are much funnier now... (post-Y2K)

Good morning Pammy!

Snickerin'...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Dog: Stephen's always had a great sense of humor. He and I disagree on politics [Well, MOST folks disagree with me on politics], but I've always enjoyed him for his sense of humor. I don't know about knock- knock jokes, though.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Maybe we will ultimately shed the diehard Y2K'ers and be able to have what we envision, maybe it'll take moving to the *other* side of the net, still yet distancing ourselves from those halcyon days of pre rollover.

I'm trying to encourage that thought on the Open Discussion Forum, Capn. Wouldn't it be cool to meet new folks who knew nothing about doomers, debunkers, pollies, etc.? I think so.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Try speaking with an attorney about libel and slander. You'll find that the deck is stacked (fortunately) in favor of free speech. I sincerely doubt you would be successful in a civil action against the catcalls. Of course, you are free to tilt at windmills. There is always a lawyer willing to help as long as your checks clear.

My comments about EZB were directed at the forum formed directly upon the departure from the original "Yourdon" TB 2000. The first EZB forum refused membership to Flint, Latimer and others. In your rush to suggest bias, you miss my point.

On another subject, I will retain my contempt of Invar--an insufferable gasbag who is convinced he has a monopoly on patriotism. Forgive me, Dennis, but I find it difficult to imagine Invar disagreeing without vitriol.

As for your knee-jerk hatred of the Wild West, I gently refer you to the original TB 2000. The most bitter venom I remember came from the hardcore doomsayers. Why, if memory serves, I should be drinking an unpalatable beverage from a rusty cap right about now. (chuckle)

I imagine I would find your forum less than entertaining, if only for the bristling defensiveness you continually demonstrate. I suggest, Dennis, you still have a chip on your shoulder. Yes, yes, yes... you'll huff and puff and BLOW our house down if you anyone speaks ill of you. Perhaps the best course is to return to your more "adult" forum and resist the urge to venture out.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 27, 2001.

Mr. Decker,

Perhaps your own reading skills could use some improvement. If you reread my posts, you'll find that I did NOT hate Unk's. I hate the trolls (of which group Anita has begun accusing me of belonging to, even though I use no profanity toward anyone and never attack your boards with malicious applets).

When Unk's was first started, I posted there semi-regularly, only to be driven off by the hatred of certain members (because of the baby thing, when I told the busybodies to take a hike). So be it. I don't get upset about most things that are said about me. However, I DO draw the line at being accused of baby-selling (illegal) and being arrested in Janesville (slander).

But perhaps you are so blinded by self-love that you fail to see what many others were put through on Unk's.

Personally, I don't think I had ANYTHING to do with Unk deciding to close the "Hysterium" (ironic that the epithet ultimately applies more to the debunker hangouts). I also find it hugely ironic that he had to open a passworded forum for civilized discussion.

I also find it funny that some here (Anita stands out for one) are openly failing to learn by what's gone on before. I guarantee you that the trolls will invade the new open board. Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but soon. Why? Because they like it. For those of you who are too obtuse to see that, well, there's really no help for you. But remember, you heard it here first.

I would like nothing better than for all of us to get along. We don't have to agree on ANYTHING, but the constant stream of profanity has no place in polite society. Would you speak like that at work? In front of guests? I think not. But for some reason, it's "okey-dokey" to do so to others on the Internet. A recent study has shown that manners on the 'net have declined steadily since folks have been using it to communicate. (Real study, heard it last year on NPR)

So I guess the bottom line is that we on TB have a "membership-based" forum, which allows us in some ways to control the levels of antagonism and trolling. So does Unk. Right here. And that promises to be the ultimate evolutionary path for those fora in which any meaningful discussion will take place.

As "Hans & Franz" would say... "Hear me now and believe me later."

You'll find out soon enough. And not one member of TB will have participated in your education.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 27, 2001.

I am having a Y2K flashback. You may not agree, Dennis, but your posts vibrate with antipathy. (Can you say "subforum?")

A few children in a sandbox said some nasty things about you. Boo hoo. The rantings in the Wild West have had no impact on reality, other than to bruise your tender feelings. When the trolls start calling your house or visiting your office... then complain.

I'm aware of how your comrades like Invar define civility. It is courtesy extended to those with whom they agree. Sorry, but I'll pass. For me, there is an important difference between your forum and here. I trust Deedah to exercise mature judgement. I do not have the same faith in you. You see a "debunker" behind every tree and strike me as far too thin-skinned, reactive and defensive to serve as a reliable moderator. Do you see Unk threatening litigation or to answer the doorbell with firearm in hand? (Although he might might answer the door in such a fashion if he suspected a lawyer was ringing the bell.)

With all due respect, Dennis, no one here cares about your imagined injuries, your personal "Trail of Tears" on the Wild West. No one here cares about your dazzling insights into the evolution of Internet fora. You have your own sandbox where you can make the rules and build sand castles to your heart's content. Go and be well.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 27, 2001.

Cool, a debate... I knew I could count on you Ken... : )

Please carry on...

Ears perkin'...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

If you reread my posts, you'll find that I did NOT hate Unk's.

Come on, Dennis. This is a bald-faced lie. You're accused ANY offshoot of the original Y2k forum of being the "Debunkies House of Trolls". You did that when OTFR had a forum, and you continued to do it after the WWW was born. It wasn't so long ago that you posted something about "I hate them." You didn't say that you ONLY hated the trolls. You said that you hated Unk's.

I hate the trolls (of which group Anita has begun accusing me of belonging to, even though I use no profanity toward anyone and never attack your boards with malicious applets).

By your own definition, Dennis, a troll is dedicated to taking a place DOWN. You not only threatened Unk with a lawsuit, but solicited hackers on another forum than your own. To what end did you do that? I noticed that you conveniently deleted that thread once that forum gave you administrative capabilities. Personally, I don't think I had ANYTHING to do with Unk deciding to close the "Hysterium"

He's already said that you had nothing to do with it. Of course you then went ahead and posted both on TB2k AND the Open Discussion Forum that you thought HE started the new forum [simply because he COULD, AND to eliminate any fears of being sought out by lawsuits (from you).] You didn't simply post this as the conjecture that it is, you posted saying that YOU KNEW THIS TO BE TRUE.

I also find it funny that some here (Anita stands out for one) are openly failing to learn by what's gone on before. I guarantee you that the trolls will invade the new open board. Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but soon. Why? Because they like it. For those of you who are too obtuse to see that, well, there's really no help for you. But remember, you heard it here first.

Well, it looks to me like you're doing your best to encourage trolls by suggesting that the new site owner is really Unk in disguise. Some of us would just like to move away [far away] from any association with Y2k and TB. Might you allow us to do that?

Personally, Dennis, I'm not looking for a "family" on the internet with a mom and dad overseeing. If trolls come to the forums [just for Lars] where I post, I have that convenient little back arrow that allows me to ignore them. If the trolls post scripts and stuff that the administrator doesn't choose to spend the time to handle, thereby closing the forum, I'll simply move on to the next. It's no big deal. As a long-time contractor, you should be accustomed to moving from place to place. I didn't mention "decent people" in the above, Dennis, because I don't know what that means. I remember you telling me that "decent people" have looked at Unk's and run away in horror. I think that reflects the membership on your forum. To ME, it's like sitting in a church setting, wondering if I can cross my legs without it being considered a sin.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

What you think (or care/not care) about me doesn't matter to me at all. To me, you are much less than someone I care to listen to. I am merely attempting to provide information as I was requested to do by Anita. If you have some emotional problem with my posting here, I suggest you take it up with her.

As to whether you "trust me", well, I just don't think I can go on living without your trust. Excuse me now while I throw myself from a rooftop...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 27, 2001.

Mommy, am I allowed to say "fuck" on the internet, is that inlegal? Or would that hurt someones feelings? LOL

Your description of the church thang killed me Anita, but watch the Dog, he's cruisin' the pews!

The term "decent people" is quite subjective depending on your vantage point, in some circles I'm probably considered quite the heathen, while in others I'm a saintly pup.Ya can't be all things to all people so why sweat it? The only thing I think any of us ever objected to was the vandalism, and the targeting of specific posters with potential acts of hatred, again, being a decent person is in the eye of the beholder.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 27, 2001.

I also find it hugely ironic that he had to open a passworded forum for civilized discussion.

Not nearly as ironic as you opening a "Take It Outside" forum for "free-for-all" discussion.

-- (One@WhoWas.There), November 27, 2001.

Dennis said, "even though I use no profanity toward anyone and never attack your boards with malicious applets)."

Define profanity for me Dennis. Here are a couple of your posts:

Again, the resident dickheads of Unks do not fail to dissapoint in their ever-downward spiral of profanity and ranting, thus proving (yet again) that the shit just... keeps... getting... deeper... at Unk's, a forum dominated by the true dregs of society...

(snicker)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), August 22, 2001.

If 51% of your members are assholes, then MOST of your members are assholes. IMHO, based on the level of CRAP that I read over here from time to time, your asshole-level is far in excess of 51%. More like 75%. So, my use of language in this instance is correct, based on my perception of Unks.

Answer enough?

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), August 22, 2001.

(snicker) You people are SO predictable. Out od context quotes from posts on TB were cross-posted over here, in order to piss you off. I post the ENTIRE posts (to show context), state that I'll be castigated by the Unk's Jackass Committee, and sure enough... At least you guys are consistent. Consistently trolls and jackasses, but hey, consistent nonetheless...

'Scuse me, gotta LOL now.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), August 22, 2001.

-- (shaking@my.head in amazement), November 27, 2001.

Information? (laughter) Let's be honest, Dennis. Your posts are nearly information free. It's attitude you are communicating. The chip on your shoulder runs down to your hip. For a guy who's "over" Y2K, you bear an extraordinary amount of anger. Hey, the last Apocalypse didn't work. Maybe next time?

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 27, 2001.

Well, Anita asked via her email to me to explain my position on this thread, which I have done. And while I have engaged in mild profanity on Unk's, it has so rearely been directed at a specific person that I cannot remember an incident. (But I'm sure the more anal-retentive among you will be able to post one or two examples. (Feel free) But when you do, be sure to also post the 10,000 wildly profane posts from your own people.

Chip? Depends on how you define the term. If it means "has no use for nasty, hate-filled spew", then I guess I do. So what's YOUR excuse? Just engaging in mental masturbation 'cause it gets you off? Must be. Anyway, I have fulfilled Anita's request. I'll leave you folks to yourselves now. Have a happy...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), November 27, 2001.

That was pretty good. Almost as good as the classics of yore... : )

(snicker)

stalkin' the cat...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Thank you, Dennis.

Sometimes I wish I had the emotionalism of people like Dennis. With that and a gun in my hand, I could be REALLY dangerous.

Yesterday I got a call that Lucky had been discharged from the hospital. I waited about an hour before going to pick her up. When I got there, I overheard the nurse on the phone in the hall discussing a blood test for this morning because her dilantin level was too high. I ended up not taking her home.

TODAY, I called asking about the status and whether she'd be discharged today. The nurse took the time to read the report on the Dilantin test, said that the level was even HIGHER today than yesterday and assured me that she would NOT be discharged today.

Fast forward to about 3pm CST. I got a call from the doctor saying that she was being discharged. I immediately packed up and left, as my night vision sucks and an ice-storm was moving in.

I saw Lucky and got her clothes ready. She said, "I'm waiting on some ear medicine. My ears hurt." I ask the nurse about the ear medicine. "It's on the way." THEN, Lucky says that she'd like to go to MY place rather than home for a few days. That's fine with me, but I don't have any of her epilepsy medication and I don't have a bed in the house that isn't a water bed, so she'd have to sleep on the couch. She said she didn't care, and I asked the nurse if I could have some Lamictal for tonight or whether she'd already gotten it today. I then found out that she'd not gotten any Lamictal during her entire stay. Duh! This is the stuff that keeps her from seizing out. It's no wonder her Dilantin levels were high. I wasn't going to take home a woman to sleep on my couch who might seize out at any minute, so I talked to the doctor.

HE convinced me that she should NOT come home with me, but be taken back to the assisted living facility. Doh! Then we went through the whole Lamictal thing. This took HOURS to accomplish, and I wanted to say, "Look! I'm a post-menopausal woman with crappy night vision and there's an ice-storm coming. Look into the barrel of this "45" and tell me you understand!" My personality being as it is, and not having a gun, they finally told me that I should just go home and they would pay for a non-emergency transport service to take mom back to the assisted living facility. The rain started on my way home, but hasn't yet turned to ice. I stopped and bought beer just in case I'm not in a position to travel for a day or two.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

So, how much beer did ya buy : )

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 27, 2001.

Anita,

You are my kind of prepper.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 27, 2001.

Amazingly enough, my viewpoint seems to overlap with Anita's more than anyone else.

I think the vandals trashed Unk's and Poole's for two reasons -- because they could (the LUSENET software permitted it), and because doing so got such an obvious rise out of enough people, and had cross- forum repercussions. Kind of the same reasons someone might set fire to a dog.

Like Anita, I was perfectly content to tune out all the many threads consisting entirely of name-calling and foul language, "contributed" by posters who dreamed up new (and often malicious) names and addresses for every post. As far as I'm concerned, their sole goal was to find thin-skinned and suspicious people (like Dennis) and watch them jump around. The only problems arose when the vandalism rendered the forum unusuable at all, unless poor Unk or Stephen spent an intolerable amount of time cleaning up.

I am quite sure these vandals were never part of the original y2k debate, nor are they numbered among the paranoid lunatics who constitute the driving force behind Dennis' forum. Those in BOTH categories are interested primarily in discussion (however wacko), NOT in preventing discussion. Prevention is limited to children and the truly unbalanced. I don't get the impression that even the most devout of Dennis' Believers In Nonsense had anything to gain, even emotionally, from destroying another forum or two.

The only problem I have with password protection is practical -- it's much easier for old members to wander off than for new ones to enter, so these places tend to atrophy fairly quickly unless (as on TB2K) the opportunity to recite tired catechisms is enough to keep the congregation coming back. Non-religious forums die out without new blood.

But hey, our original touchstone had a fixed deadline, now long passed and silly in retrospect. A few good friends are worth a fortune. Howdy, y'all.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 27, 2001.

"Kind of the same reasons someone might set fire to a dog."

Flint, don't say that! Don't you know there are dogs present? ;)

Poor Doggie!

-- Pammy (bad@bad.Flint), November 27, 2001.

Good to see you, Flint. I'm trying to stir up some political debate on the Open Discussion forum, but currently my only adversary is Ain't, and he ain't taking the bait. I'd like to see that forum as a place where "new blood" is welcome and a place to forget all the baggage from the old Y2k days. I don't know how anyone else sees it, but that's MY hope.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Damn! hot, hot! (dancin' in the water dish)

Flint, you really know how to make an entrance... Colorful descriptive.

Anita,

I am afraid that the trolls are not going to let an open forum exist no matter what. I do not understand their thought pattern. The graffiti artists of cyberspace.

Nippin' at the singed hair...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

"A few good friends are worth a fortune."

Exactly!!!

"I'd like to see that forum as a place where "new blood" is welcome and a place to forget all the baggage from the old Y2k days"

I can kinda see the point of the new blood but I'm pretty sure most here have no problem ditching the baggage from whatchyacallit.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 27, 2001.

Welcome Flint! Hi everyone :)

I think this place could benefit from a public "feeder forum", but how to accomplish that, long term, escapes me for the moment. I would be happy to participate in such a public area as well, if it will attract abrasive, intelligent and entertaining new blood to password haven.

In the meantime, it's good to brush off the old piano bench in the corner of this forum, scribble a few notes with the crowd, listen to you all and hum along where no one can hear me.

One question, after reading a few of the above posts ... Am I allowed here, this die-hard Y2K doomer that I am?? I sense allergic antibodies to doomers. You all never held it against me before ... it would be dishonest to pretend silently that I am not one, but I see no reason to parade a first-response flag in front of effigy seekers. Do I detect some intolerance here? I enjoy being around all sorts of views ... and I enjoy the hell out of most of you.

Anyway, just checking in before hitting some of the chats. Glad to see you, you bunch of crazy, earnest abnormalities.

Later.

-- Oxy (Oxsys@aol.com), November 27, 2001.

Come on in Oxy... Hell, I still have 45 gallons of stabilized water in my garage... : )

Now if you go rabid and start spouting Milneisms at us, we WILL kick your ass... ; )

Scratchin' at the storage cabinet...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Oxy,

Speaking as someone who was once perhaps the 3rd most rabid anti-doomer in existence in 1999, fuggedaboutit.

Y2K is *DEAD* and it rest (rot) in peace. I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if I never heard the term again.

Have fun.

Life's too short.

It ain't nuthin' but a thang.

Speak your peace.

Erm, piece.

Say, "hello."

Ask Cap'n for the best prescription for the above. He's very good at it. Better, I expect, than most. :)

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), November 28, 2001.

Unk,

Oxy, the doomer, is calling us abnormal. Is that allowed in a civilized, password protected forum?

Seriously Oxy, glad to see you back posting. You will be in charge of Lars who seems to be overly interested in prostates and inert gases.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 28, 2001.

Dog,

How exactly do you stabilize water?

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 28, 2001.

Don't move it?

Let me 'clarify'... treated water. The only reason it is still there is I don't know what to do with it... The wife thinks the minute amount of chlorine in it will kill her plants, and I am cheap enough not to just pour it out... I used one of the 15 gal. drums when I flushed the radiator out last year in my old Power Wagon. I guess I could do the same with the wife's Bronco...

Anyway... Y2K... I vaguely remember something about that, but it is getting fuzzy...

Waterin' the plants...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

You have a Dodge Power Wagon? We need to talk. I know some people you would just love to meet.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 28, 2001.

Yeah I do. A dog has to get across the desert somehow... You didn't think I would walk do you? Yep, the 'old green Dog' is a blast in the sand...

Steerin' a big ass truck...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Stephen,

I think you said it most succinctly, I mean, how hard can it be? We were what we were and we are what we are, now.

Oxy,

Hell, put your feet up and sit a spell, if I and others of similar ilk are allowed in, your hunkey dorey too.As a matter of fact theres a thread somewhere here (help from the gallery?) about our weird montage and our eccentric ecclectictness...if that's even a word.The best part of that is; there's just more of us.

Time for a little nekkid,moon bathed hat skulking.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 28, 2001.

JBT--

Unless Oxy has proctological credentials, I cannot allow her to mess with my prostate. Inert gasses might be fun, but prostate?---no way.

-- (lars@indy.net), November 28, 2001.

OK, so call me a mentally ill sexual pervert but...

I think a female examining my prostate beats a demented gas injector trying to freeze and thaw and freeze and thaw and freeze and thaw and freeze and thaw me anyday.

Hmmm.

Having now a moment to think about it, mentally ill sexual pervert sounds kinda fun.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeeD@yahoo.com), November 28, 2001.

I think you've just had an *ephinany*. Where's Pammy when you need her?

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 28, 2001.

Bend over, Unk! ;)

-- Pammy (here@I.am), November 28, 2001.

Dog, as part of my day job I manage a municipal water system. Chlorine evaporates from water over time, far more quickly than you might imagine. For example, we recently filled a new water storage tank (about 400,000 gallons). After allowing the water to sit for a few days (to allow for testing), the chlorine had dissipated to the point where we had to partially drain and refill the tank. Use the water... but only for plants. It might not be safe for drinking without purification and/or treatment.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 28, 2001.

You're putting me in charge of LARS?? If this is the price of admission, let me check my password again. What kind of leash are you offering with this job?

If we each are assigned a task, can I be your feeder forum lobbyist instead? (More manageable assignment.)

I do have proctology credentials (reference Cleveland Clinic training) but I like to consider myself more of a freelancer than a personal trainer.

P.S. Lars: Is laughing gas inert? (Down, boy. Sit. Roll over.)

P.S.S. Unk: Be careful with your perversion fantasies. You never know what kind of task this group will assign to YOU.

P.S.S.S. Capn: Wanna mudwrestle?

... goin' out the door, searchin' for the Holy Grail of Milne ...

-- Oxy (Oxsys@aol.com), November 28, 2001.

Ken,

I'm having some water issues here at the new homestead, it is well water.Can you reccommend a home testing kit that will show me the levels of different minerals/ph etc.. We have a filtration system but I'm not totally sold on its merits and want to check its effectiveness.Thanks.

Oxy,

I'm more of a silk and oil rassler myself but sand will do in a pinch.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 28, 2001.

I reconsider. Anal beads are fun, but no colonoscope, ok?

-- (lars@indy.net), November 28, 2001.

Gee. I don't want to pry into your sexual life, Lars, but I hadn't even heard of the "anal beads" until my second daughter went to that "penis party" where they sold the stuff. After she'd told me about them, I mentioned them to SO and got a reply that I wouldn't want to repeat. [Okay...just between you and me...do those things REALLY enhance the male orgasm?]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Heh. I ALSO have the feeling that this thread has moved beyond what the "decent" folks on TB would consider acceptable. Maybe it's time to simply accept that I'm part of the cesspool.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

You're not a part of it you are completely mired in it. Thanks for addressing Lars' post, I couldn't bring myself to ask but I knew someone would.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 28, 2001.

The troll has done the wipe-out on the Open Discussion Forum now. I knew I was unworthy, JBT. I got that impression when I was a kid and asked my Sunday School teacher questions that made her want to commit suicide. [She didn't, BTW. (I didn't do it!)]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

I suggest you talk to a nearby water utility and inquire about local testing firms. A good firm will give you sampling containers and instructions or, if you are unmotivated, take samples from your home. With a filtration system, I recommend taking raw water samples and "finished" water samples. Not to alarm you, but improperly maintained filtration systems can actually cause water quality problems. A common problem with wells is the presence of coliform bacteria. When this bacteria is present, it means you have biological contamination in your wellhead... usually from septic, sewer or surface water. Another cause is unmaintained filtration systems. Stop by and I'll tell you some stories that would curl your hair.

Nitrate contamination is common, particularly in agricultural areas. Water hardness is the presence of calcium and magnesium. Hard water is not a health issue, but some people like softer water. The same principle applies to iron. It easy to spot high iron levels by the staining. Filtration won't change the pH of your water. Well water, often acidic, is usually treated with soda ash or caustic soda to increase pH in production systems. Lead is nasty stuff, but probably not a concern in relatively modern home. VOC (Volatile Organic Chemicals like PCEs and TCEs are nasty. The presence of VOCs is bad news, usually caused by the spill of petroleum products or industrial solvents.

If I used well water, I'd have a full spectrum of tests run every few years. I'd also maintain my filtering system religiously. Remember, Cap, alcohol only helps with the bacteria... not the other contaminants.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 28, 2001.

Unk, while I'm down here, care for some beads? ;)

-- Pammy (lol@lars.and Anita), November 28, 2001.

Thanks Ken, I'll give one of the testing co's a call, I really want to know what's in this stuff and maybe in the process teach myself the tech end of my filtration system.

Pammy....put those down before you put someones eye out ; )

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 28, 2001.

This is very confusing--we seem to have a bifurcated thread: anal beads and water purification.

Is there a common denominator?

-- (lars@indy.net), November 28, 2001.

Anita--

I can only say that prostate stimulation does affect male orgasm. Work it out with Mr SO. You need not use beads. I once was cathed at a hospital after surgery. Very painful, but when I got home that night I was highly aroused. The catheterization had massaged my prostate.

Now it's your turn. How do you like ben wah balls?

-- (lars@indy.net), November 28, 2001.

When I have to choose between a pinch of salt, mudwrestling and oily satin, I need stabilized water.

-- Oxy (Oxsys@aol.com), November 28, 2001.

Oxy, good to see you here. They let me post knowing that I'm still living in a refugee camp, waiting to be activated at any moment. I still need slaves to dig the giant latrine. Not slaves...not slaves...I meant...volunteers. Yes...volunteers...

-- helen (rusty@hub.caps), November 28, 2001.

I must confess that the thread seems rather... er... eclectic.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), November 28, 2001.

Ken, the pc word is DIVERSE...

I have to admit, that this is a popular thread... over 100 posts.

Diggin' a hole to bury those beads...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

The whole anal bead thing was invented by those evil engineers at the hemorrhoid creme factory.

-- Blue Hairs -- investigating Lars closely (argon@and.beads?), November 28, 2001.

Um...er...[do I dare ask?] What is a ben wah ball?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Ben Wa Balls

-- (here@you.go), November 28, 2001.

Anita,

It seems they are some sort of office accessory.

-- Debra (Thisis@it.com), November 28, 2001.

Um, yeah, Debra. Sounds like "sitting on your foot and rocking" has been replaced by modern technology. I'll ask my second daughter about them when she flies in next month. If there's anything to these, I'm sure she'll say, "Oh, yeah. I wore them during the flight. Want me to take them out and show ya what they look like?"

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

What is with the piston that is operating at the bottom of the page?

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), November 28, 2001.

One of my ben wa balls fell out while I was in the produce section of Kroger's. It rolled under the cucumber rack. The produce-boy was smirking but I don't think he knew what he saw. Frankie, my stud-muffin, said "eh, what I tell youse bout wearin no panties?"

-- (lorelei@jiffy.lube), November 28, 2001.

LOL. Thanks, Lorelei.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.