Hisa, I want to know if you play Raiden 2. And how many points you can do. Also, did you finished Raiden DX? What´s that extra level after 8?? Is in the space too? And I challenge you and your friends of your team. BEAT MY HI-SCORE IN SAINT DRAGON and in XX MISSION. I wait for your answers. :)

-- INNUENDO (funit@bol.com.br), November 27, 2001

Answers

Hmm.... Interesting,,, From what I can gather from that list of Gamest records that was posted here earlier, Innuendo's Saint Dragon score beats it. By quite a bit. Or at least I think I'm looking at the right game. My Japanese skills suck majorly (I've only had them for like three days) ;)

So hopefully "¥µ¥¤¥ì¥ó¥È¥É¥é¥´¥ó" = Saint Dragon.:)

-- Barry Rodewald (bsr@hnpl.net), November 27, 2001.

Stupid Windows. That didn't come out right at all...

For those that have that Excel sheet, I'm looking at line 570 with the Gamest record for Saint Dragon which is listed as 4,567,100.

-- Barry Rodewald (bsr@hnpl.net), November 27, 2001.

That says Silent Dragon! Close but no sashimi.

Man, some of those scores are absurd. Klax is listed at 14.5 million, Puyo Puyo at 2.8 million, 1943Kai at 5.8 million, Uopoko at 6.2 million.

And I'd like to see someone get 41 million on Fatal Fury 2...

-- Tenchi (rpeng@usc.edu), November 27, 2001.

NO!! Barry is right! I´ve told SAINT DRAGON!!! I´m challenging HISA CHAN or his friends. And I want to know how many points he can make on RAIDEN 2. And it´s impossible make 41 million on Fatal Fury 2.

-- INNUENDO (funit@bol.com.br), November 27, 2001.

Hey friends, don't forget one thing. Japanese players are the bests of earth for almost all games. I think it's impossible to make 11M5 to Rygar but they made it ! They have Gamest and now Arcadia for learn quickly all of the bests technics for all games. If there are scores on Gamest, they're real and not impossible. They found technics we don't have yet, thats all. Before Hisa upload his score to Gradius, did you think its possible to make 10M to that game ? But he made it :-)

For Innuendo, have you finish XX Mission ? Because the second serie of heli is hellish ;-), no ?

Also, congrats for your score on gng :-) I don't think I'll go to the fourth stage of fourth loop :-) But I'm right, they're no more lives bonus after 980 K. It's not also marathon than you think :-)

François

-- Francois Daniel (francois-daniel@libertysurf.fr), November 27, 2001.

Thanks Francois. I need to beat you in some game, because you won me in 3.... so...

I´ve finished XX MISSION. But I want inspiration to play, like challenge these great japanese players. I play on a keyboard but I want try beat them. Hisa Chan and his friends. I want to put them in a second place, or in the last action, "TRY". Now, I need to have learn about these very very very nice players. And please Hisa, don´t forget about my questions, ok?

-- INNUENDO (funit@bol.com.br), November 27, 2001.

Unfortunately, 4.5 million is the record on Silent Dragon, not Saint Dragon... I don't know about Hisa, but the record for Raiden DX is 16,507,280.

I agree with Innuendo that 41 million on FF2 is impossible. I agree with Francois that the scores in Gamest are real. I'm just a confused person :)

-- Tenchi (rpeng@usc.edu), November 27, 2001.

14,5M at Klax...

My friend has scored ummm 4-5M, very close to finishing the game...using shortest route. 14,5 Maybe possible taking much longer route+lots points maximizing and a *bit* luck of colours. If you start at level 1, you get only 3"lives" that'll make things hard.

Is there a finishing bonus in the end, Hisa?

Any videogame record can be beaten, if you use enough time!

-- TJT (tiihoto@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

Hello Marpers & TJT,

I have read most of the posts here for a bit over a year but this is my first post.

Thank you to everyone for all the interesting conversation about video games.

I felt compelled to respond to TJT’s remarks about Klax and records mostly because the statement that “Any videogame record can be beaten, if you use enough time!” is one of the most blatantly false and misleading statements I have read on this forum. Perhaps because fake records have been a concern of mine for 20 years or so I am taking it too literally.

Maybe you meant that MOST records can be bettered, which is of course true. I would consider this difference to be nitpicking except for what appears to be your assumption that any, arbitrarily high, score might be achievable, in this case 14.5 million. It is, as a matter of FACT, not possible to achieve a score of 14.5 million on Pacman. It is impossible to achieve a score of 14.5 million on Dig Dug. It is also not possible to achieve a 14.5 million score on an unhacked, difficulty ramped Klax machine running the Klax (set 1) rom. The great thing about having access to the roms thanks to Mame, is that sometimes, especially with the older and simpler games, maximum scores can be definitively determined.

By the way there is a 1 million point bonus for completing the last level.

John S.

-- John S (nospam@example.net), December 03, 2001.

"“Any videogame record can be beaten, if you use enough time!” is one of the most blatantly false and misleading statements I have read on this forum."

Hey , I think there was some kind of jocularity in that statement from Tommi ! Steady-on old chap . Also " if you use enough time " is a rather general statement . " Enough time " , could mean 50 yrs , it could mean 2 years...etc...But for damned sure , none of us know now what we`d achieve on a game if we played it for 50yrs ( thats dedication , and all that :) ).

So Tommi`s statement at the moment is Theoretically possible , but at present totally un-provable .

Does that make sense ? Shit , don`t ask me.....

Cheers,

AL

-- AL (alexweir@indigo.ie), December 03, 2001.

AL,

When I re-read my own post it does sound like I take myself a bit too seriously, sorry it wasn’t meant that way.

On the other hand you do not seem to have understood my point. Actually it is quite the opposite of what you say. My frustration surfaces because the fact that certain scores are impossible including the ones I mentioned)is absolutely provable.

There are many world record scores that I could not break even after years of practice, but that does not make doing so impossible. As for achieving the scores I mentioned, the best video game player who ever lived practicing for 50 years or 50 million years, it makes no difference. They are not possible.

There is enough uncertainty regarding video game records for which we don’t have the benefit of the certainty some Roms provide as to whether they are possible or not, to waste time debating those that we can prove are bogus.

John S.

-- John S (nospam@example.net), December 03, 2001.

Well, any score can be beaten as long as it's not fake, obviously. It just takes a lot of practice and skill. You really shouldn't say that about Tommi's statement. For instance (everyone is going to smack me for this), twingalaxies.com has a score of nearly 3 million on Bosconian, by Ken McLeod in 1982 or 1983. This, of course, on their own TG settings (lives at 20K 70K every 70K, diff hardest and no continue). Many of which had thought impossible, I asked Hisa (A Japanese player here, I'm sure you know) what the score in Gamest was. He had replied that he could not find an actual score, but other sources had stated on 5 LIVES (that's right, instead of 32 lives on TG settings or 42-43 lives on Defaults.) someone had reached level 256, as some may know as, the super speedy level. Now, it is impossible (as far as I know) to beat level 256 on any of the romsets besides bosco. The score, possibly around 6M or so he said, and I, myself, estimate a gameplay time of apporoximately 7 hours. I was truly astonished, and would like to see that done on a machine. I of course figure that the settings were on Default, but that really doesn't make a difference. I know some of the scores sound bogus, but look at most anything the japanese have done on this site and tell me it isn't. Yes, back in the day, people stated those kind of scores. When they were asked to do it again, or even attempt to, they were proved wrong. I know many cannot be asked today since they lead lives and some have also passed on, but when someone says a score today, you can only hope that it is real. Some scores are fake, for obvious reasons, but nothing can be done about a fake score. That is all I have to say on this matter. Thank you.

-- Joe Ledesma (Bosconian Fan #1) (JoeyL21988@yahoo.com), December 03, 2001.

I apologize. In the whole Bosconian thing, I meant that it is impossible (as far as I know) to beat level 256 on -1 LIFE- on all romsets besides Bosco. That is all, I hope.

-- Joe Ledesma (Bosconian Fan #1) (JoeyL21988@yahoo.com), December 03, 2001.

John S., I agree that 14.5 million is impossible on Pacman and Dig Dug (and on a side note, the high score for Pacman truly is unbeatable, but of course Tommi wasn't being that serious) but what makes you say 14.5 million is impossible on Klax? It seems hard to put any kind of limit on the maximum score, as some levels require a certain number of klaxes of a particular type, so you could theoretically go on forever. I know the tiles start coming out faster and faster, so in a _practical_ sense you can't go on forever, but how can you make a specific limit?

Now the Fatal Fury 2 record DOES seem to be above the limit, but I guess it's possible that there is some secret that nets a whole bunch of points... but the score COULD be wrong, couldn't it?

-- Tenchi (rpeng@usc.edu), December 03, 2001.

On the 14.5M Klax recording:

This is definitely doable. The most likely route is to clear 1-5, then warp using the 4 drop/100K every time you make it to a warp, and DO NOT use the secret warps.

As for the difficulty ramping... I imagine that if you had enough caffeine in your system, it wouldn't be a problem to keep up (unless it can get ramped up to the point where it's doing the conveyor filled all the way across with tiles on a row, which I doubt). It would, however, take work.

The best stage to start racking points up on would be Wave 3 - since it requires diagonals, you could theoretically make "sandwiches" repeatedly. However, it's the first stage to have seven colors (Wave 1 has four [red, yellow, green, orange], and Wave 2 adds blue; Wave 3 adds purple and white), so your odds on getting the colors to come your way are not good.

Still, I think it's doable.

I'm wondering what the record on the 2nd prototype set of Klax is, though, or if there is one. One million should be doable without much trouble.

-- dissolute city (mdenham@coinet.com), December 04, 2001.

just one example.
Line1 Line2 Line3 Line4 Line5
Green Blue Blue Green
Green joker joker Green
Red Green Green Red
Green Red Red Green
Green Green Green Green
after you set up,drop Red,green and 3jokers into line 3 quickly.
if you success,can get 10,000x2 and 122,100x23 equal 2,563,100 points.
you should try big combo like this at any 5n+4 wave.(points wave)
so if you success this at wave 14,19,24,.. this 1 combo give you more than 5 million points. 20,000+2,543,100+overmake 2.5M or so.
if it is too difficult,you should try easier combo.


Green Green Green Green
Green Green Green Green
Blue Blue Blue Blue
Green Green Blue Green Green
Green Green Blue Green Green
drop Blue,Green,Green at line3.
this is 10,050x2+90,000x12=1,100,100 points. and do at 5n+4th wave,this one combo worth about 2,200,000 points.
Good luck all.

-- Novice (weavuspert@yahoo.co.jp), December 04, 2001.

first example was
Line1 Line2 Line3 Line4 Line5
Green Blue Space Blue Green
Green joker Space joker Green
Red Green Space Green Red
Green Red Space Red Green
Green Green Space Green Green
10,000x2 + 122,100 x21 is right. sorry.
Green Green Space Green Green
Green Green Space Green Green
Blue Blue Space Blue Blue
Green Green Blue Green Green
Green Green Blue Green Green
is second example.

-- Novice (weavuspert@yahoo.co.jp), December 04, 2001.

Tenchi,

Before I get into nauseating detail about why it is not possible I think I had better make sure we are not comparing apples to oranges and ask Novice if he is talking about a machine with ramping turned off. 14.5 million is a very low score if this is the case. Unfortunately as I guess everyone here knows it is often the case when comparing high scores that don’t make sense just a simple matter of the Rom or machine settings being different.

Dissolute city suggests just making “sandwiches” repeatedly. Of course anyone who has played the game at all knows this is not possible, so one has to search for better patterns to better a score. If one is looking for new patterns both the examples Novice gave jump out after about a minute but it is interesting to try and look for patterns with better distribution of tiles.

The first time I played Klax I saw a website which suggested an optimal level 1 pattern of 590,000 points. Actually it is nowhere near the optimal pattern. I have completed a level 1 pattern for 820,000 points.

Klax can be fun to play, but I actually don’t think all that much of it simply because it is so easy to master. After that it is similar to playing one of the poker games, play enough games waiting for good tile distribution.

Since I find it more fun than actually playing it I have created some tools to mess with Klax:

I have written a simulator which will play the game by making the theoretically optimal moves.

I have also written (more difficult) a program which given inputs of level, and tile distribution will generate the optimal pattern.

I have written a program (simple) which given inputs of a pattern, the level, and a skill index will output the average number of games required to complete the pattern. The skill index has a very slight impact basically allowing for better timing when returning tiles to the ramp.

Anyway hoping to here if Novice thinks its possible on a ramping = on machine.

By the way I have also analyzed the algorithm used for the ramp, it is not strictly time based as is mentioned on a few websites.

John S.

-- John S (nospam@example.net), December 05, 2001.

I assume your JBS, correct? :)

-- Joe Ledesma (JoeyL21988@yahoo.com (Bosconian Fan #1)), December 05, 2001.