Ok, has anyone heard of renting out goats to backpackers? I live about an hour from the sierra mountains in Ca and i heard there is some guy out there that rents out these huge goats meant to carry the bundles that the backpackers are too lazy for. any idea what kind of goats they would be?

-- D of CA (muhawi001@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001

Answers

Goats tear up the trail less than horses and pack mules (in some places llamas and alpacas (no pun intended) are used as well) and that is why they are being used. Also, they (the goats) are probably not the danger to other hikers that larger animals are. Some trails are quite narrow and horses take up a LOT of room. Of course your biggest hurdle is probably doing what it takes to get a concessionaire's license with the forest service or state park service.

In some cases, backpackers are not necessarily lazy, but it is often a time issue--with pack animals, since you can move faster with just a small fanny or daypack, you can cover more ground on a three-day trip than you could otherwise. Good Luck.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 28, 2001.

There is a great book called " The Pack Goat " written by John Mionczynski who is widely recognized as the father of goat packing in America. This is probably the Bible of pack goating. Well worth the $15.95. Try the used book section at Amazon.com and save some money.

Ken

-- Ken in Maine (kenjan@nh.adelphia.net), November 28, 2001.

D of CA - I'd propose that you aren't going to get terribly far in business if you don't understand and respect and empathise with your customers. If you despise them (as you obviously do) and don't respect them (as you very obviously don't) then the message will get through - body language carries a lot of information. They, naturally, will respond by despising and disrespecting you - as they should, and as you'd deserve. Not a good basis on which to build a business.

Actually this post is a useful thought-provoker to me. I used to bush- walk (or tramp or trek or whatever - depends on where you come from). On the executive commitee of my bushwalking club. Back went on me (congenital - dating from childhood), and I could never chance going on more than day-walks again. Couldn't chance carrying the weight of a full pack. I need to think really seriously about using pack- animals - this could let me get out and do some of the things I was wanting to do before the collapse. So - I'm one of the prospective customers you despise.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 29, 2001.

Excuse me, Don, but i don't despise anyone...i was just curios to know what kind of goats are used in this buisness. the whole concept interests me. I like to hike...and i am one of the so called LAZY people who would love to have help carrying stuff. sorry if you took things too seriously...I didnt mean to offend anyone.

-- D of CA (Muhawi001@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

Let me apologize again for offending anyone. I really don't think that backpackers who use packanimals are lazy. I, myself, hike and camp out occasionally...and would love to have someone there to help me carry my stuff. My back isnt in the best of shape, either. I was mainly talking about myself. The term "lazy" was not meant to be taken seriously. I mean...a person who does actually hike or backpack CANT be lazy, right? i was mainly interested in the breed of goats used. I do not want to start a buisness.I also dont know the guy who rents them...i have just heard of the whole process. I would love to own a few goats of my own. Heck...i was deeply contemplating getting a pygmy goat a while back...but it's hard to care for a whole bunch of animals and go to college at the same time. (i live in an agricultural, uni. town). Next time...i won't post a message in 2 seconds without proofreading it first. =)

-- Daniela (Muhawi001@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

Don't grovel too much. Enough, by all all means, but don't overdo it. You've started a lot of thought threads. My family has a farm backing onto a national park. I don't think goats would go down too well - they have a bad feral goat problem. However, camelids (say llamas, with their soft feet) might be accepable, and pack animals are what llamas are FOR. Also, if they can use mules in the Grand Canyon - well, like I said, you've started some ideas.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 29, 2001.

I have packgoats, so will try to answer some questions. Any goat will "pack." But they can only handle 25% of their body weight! So a 200# wether can carry 50#'s of gear. Most packers use wethers from the dairy breeds, except for Nubaians who tend to be lazy and noisy on the trails. Most of the goat packers are in the western states, a few east of the big river, and since you must have a computer do a search, as there ia a lot of packgoat sites out there. The very first offical meeting of napga will be tonite on line. North American Packgoat Assc. Have fun goats are fun! ddt

-- (troubled@ftc-i.net), November 29, 2001.

I think the guy you are thinking about uses cross breeds. Saanen wethers would be good I think.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), November 29, 2001.