Hi! I am interested in building a 15'x 20' Small barn (for goats/poultry) is there any way I can defer the building cost by using alternative materials? It has to be warm enough for the severe winter weather.

-- Chandler (Providencefarms2001@yahoo.com), December 01, 2001

Answers

yes

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), December 01, 2001.

sounds like the size shed I just built for my chickens,, I cut some cedar trees,, used for posts in the ground,, scrap lumber,, scrounged windows, even some skids fro one wall,, and a freebie door. ONly bought the corregateed metal for the roofing,, and 2 hinges. Roofing cost a few bucks,, and the thing doesnt look real purty,, and I had a bunch of 2x4 left over from another job,, but I wanted the metal cause of snow,,let it slide right off. IM in Norhern Mich. Layed alot of litter on the floor for the chickens added a lamp,, minimized the drafts,, but can be pretty airy come summer. What ever you can scrounge , borrow,, beg,, nail it together,, add a few perches,, good to go

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), December 01, 2001.

You do software development, Stan? That was totally correct, and totally unhelpful (except maybe to me, who thought about posting it too). However, really cold weather isn't my thing.

One thing I do know - most of the battle is stopping wind (not totally stopping ventilation, but definitely body-heat-sapping wind). I think it's Gary who's enamoured of structural insulated panels - maye they'd be an option - eliminate most framing, insulated, go up in hours.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), December 01, 2001.

Check out this website:

http://www.manytracks.com/

Click on homesteading then click on solar chicken coop. I believe this couple was in Upper MI so the cold factor is the same. They dug down a few feet for their coop which is a great idea in terms of insulating the bottom and cost, etc...

I really admire Stan for his ingenuity. So many people I know would rather go into debt building a "luxury" coop that matches the domain than using what is here for us to use. I say-use it up, wear it out, or go without! RECYCLE.

I've been seeing quite of few windows in the trash (unfortunately when I am unable to stop and get them) but they are for the taking. Also, think pallets that are thrown away.

Check the archives for alternative building methods in general and in poultry/goat archives in particular.

Here are the poultry connection's housing links for ideas:

http://www.poultryconnection.com/links/Housing/

Good luck!

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), December 01, 2001.

Y'know it occurs to me that a barn such as you describe could be framed out like a pole bldg then insulated pallet panels could be added to the framing. Just make sure you have adequate overhang on the roof to keep moisture off the straw. Insulate the pallets with straw then cover them with 1/4" osb(chipboard) on one side and maybe plastic on the other. Its unlikely it'll be so tite that you'd have to be concerned about condensation.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), December 01, 2001.

Manytracks;....I think that's Sue R. page [she writes an piece now and again for CS.] Should be good stuff there!

-- Jim-mi (hartalteng@voyager.net), December 01, 2001.

If you want to defer the cost, I might suggest a credit card with a grace period or someplace that offers 90 days same as cash. The type of materials you use will be irrelevant.

As to materials, I'd suggest you do a search for 'structural insulated panels' or 'SIP' and take a look at what you find. While this isn't any cheaper than a conventional structure, it's excellent. SIP's are panels made of solid foam core insulation sandwiched between two OSB's (oriented strand boards). It's incredibly strong and airtight. You could build what you want with only four panels for walls and two (or more) for roofing depending on the style and pitch you want. You can order them as large as 8' x 28' each with pre-cut openings for doors and windows as you specify. I hope this helps.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), December 01, 2001.

Gary; Could you put some prices on that stuff??..Like sq. ft.?? Any "standard" size panels?? >osb-4X8< or is it all special order?? How heavy might a 4X10 panel be?? I need to find a source in my neck of the woods......

-- Jim-mi (hartalteng@voyager.net), December 01, 2001.

Jim, I know there are manufacturers in MI. You can certainly get 4' x 8' panels. They come in a variety of thicknesses and R-values as well. As to pricing, I'd suggest you do the search I mentioned earlier and contact some manufacturers in your area. I don't work in that industry and have no contacts there. I just became real impressed with the concept from the research I've done. I then saw a home built with them unfinished at the Nat'l Assn. of Home Builders Show in Dallas a couple years ago. Generally speaking, you'll spend a bit more on materials than you would with dimensional lumber construction. The tradeoff is you get a far stronger, quieter and better insulated structure and eliminate a lot of labor costs. Instead of framing, sheathing and insulating it's all in these. Additionally, you should be able to get a break from your drywall contractor as you can use thinner drywall and the contractor doesn't have to worry about screwing to studs. Anywhere he places a screw it goes into 5/8" OSB. I hope this helps.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), December 02, 2001.

My straw bale construction books have several photos of warm temporary structures constructed out of just that -- straw bales. They are covered in chicken wire to prevent the stock from eating the straw, and they only last a season or two due to the rotting, mostly, but they have a very good R-value for insulating. I have seen other people who sheathe the straw bales in free cast-off wood pallets to prevent this and give more stability, altho pounding rebar through the bales would likely be sufficient for a low structure. It shouldn't be too hard to frame in some old windows and a door -- I find that our local landfill guy is the best source of old windows. He is only too glad to call us up when something good has been brought in that he feels is salvageable.

Friends of mine run their own sawmill and built a run-in shed for their horses (based on an english design for sheep) using the cut-off slabs to side and roof it. It is more airy than what you might want for poultry, so a traditional small shed would likely be more to what you'd want, however, you can frame it out with the slabs fairly cheaply too if you look around for a small sawmill operator who can give you a deal on a pile. Lots of it is pine that goes looking, due to the creosote build-up problems in burning it, so that may be easier to find. You can use it for the roofing the same way that you would lay shingles to form a cheap roof that sheds water well, altho it doesn't have much of an R-value and most heat is lost through the roof.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), December 02, 2001.

I plan on building a large prototype Solar Kiln for drying large timbers using home made SIP panels.

These kilns will need good insulation and will be exposed to the elements for several years. I have read considerable information on these panels and understand that the panels are structurally stronger than conventional stick built using only the panels themselves with proper installation. If any one out there has some Technical knowledge that you can share it will very useful.

1. What is the best construction/production method? 2. Use blank slabs with hot knife or pours into forms? 3. If pouring, is it best to recess edges for splines? If so what type of material is best to not stick to foam? 4.What will be the cost (approx.) of the expandable foam? **I have a hard wood floor Company source for 1" OSB (7’x3’) and (6’x4’) for the skin at about .03 per square foot** 5. Is that to thick or to small? 6. What do you think about using recycled rigid foam panel with the 1" OSB? 7. Would Expanded Polystyrene (MEPS), Extruded Polystyrene (XPS), or Urethane (Polyisocyanurate) be the best choice for this? **A company out of Framingham, MA will donate odd size and tapered rigid foam Panels of any of the above three types for the cost of shipping. ** 8. Can the recycled panel be glued and filled in with the same pouring method?

-- Greg in Indiana (Hogwarrior21@aol.com), January 08, 2002.

http://www.bagelhole.org/article.php/Housing/143/

-- al (yr2012@hotmail.com), February 11, 2002.

Actually, I have a question for Stan, or someone, relating to the use of cedar posts. I live in Kansas and here we have red cedar. I'd like to know how to use these as posts: do you cure the posts or just cut 'em and put 'em in the ground?

-Larry

-- Larry Kipp (LRKipp@cs.com), March 12, 2002.

Red cedar is generally pretty good at resisting decay on it's own. Nothing will last forever.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), March 12, 2002.