Well this doe we bought was told was alpine ,she is not large ,year old she had her kid,it was born. but is not of our billy . black stripes on face silver color brown hue black stripe down back ,black stomach with booted black feet little nanny.has alpine looking face with alpine ears it's mother weight is 84 # now the little doe is just from back to ground 11'1/2 in. from head to ground about 14 in weighes in at 8 # they said she was bred to black nubian.very active.do you know if one that small out of such a small mother can really be out of nubian stock.does that sound about right ,this man has lied to me so much where goats are concerned just want to ask some one that knows.Thanks a lot.

-- Pastor Hughes (hbchurch@brightok.net), December 01, 2001

Answers

What do the ears of the kid look like? The size, etc., sounds like it could be from an Alpine/Nubian cross. Usually, the long Nubian ear shows up at least some. The mother's ears are upright, right? Does the baby have 'airplane' ears? Or maybe it has semi-long droopy ears. Either one would indicate that the sire is, indeed a Nubian.

-- Dianne Wood (woodgoat@pacifier.com), December 01, 2001.

An 8# kid is a pretty good size kid, that is what our Nubians average when they are born. Nubians can be any color so a black Nubian buck does not necessarily always through black. A Nubian cross will usually have floppy ears or airplane ears. I would have liked to see the doe a little larger than 84# prior to giving birth to a kid, mine were close to that weight when they were bred. Have fun with your new doeling.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), December 01, 2001.

We don't even breed our does until they are well over a 100 pounds, and yes they are all Nubian. I would expect that if your doe is really Alpine, ought to just send a pic of her to Bernice, the Alpine gal :) that if she was bred to a Nubian you would see some airplane ears on the kid, perhaps less of the dish to the face with the Roman nose, though color isn't heritable she could eaisly have some Alpine coloring because of the white and lighter colors being dominant. Our kids like Leslie and Skip average 8 pounds, the more you have the less they weigh and our triplets can be 4 and 5 pound little things, that are very very active! You are very lucky that this 84 pound doe gave you only one little doeling, many Alpine bloodlines are known for there very scary large kids, and kids from our one LaMancha buck could range in the 12 to 14 pound range, JoJo my middle daughters best doe she showed for years had two 12 pound bucklings at 10 years old, we litterally had to pull every inch of them out, even their bellys once the head and shoulders were delivered. In an 84 pound doe you would lose the kids or the mom. Congrats on the doe kid! You may want to rethink you breeding program for yourself and not follow the example of whom you purchased her from. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 01, 2001.

The color sounds fairly typical of Alpines, its called chamossiee. To get color definations of Alpines try this link: http://www.agdomain.com/web/1999shows/ go to the bottom of the page to the links and click color links.

The kid is fairly average as far as weight for Alpines, w ehave had as heavy as 15#'s to 17#'s at birth.

Vicki posted very accurate information. If you can e-mail me a pic and I can best tell you if this is Alpine or Nubian. Is the dam a registered Alpine? What does the nose look like? If its got a sort of hump to it that is called a Roman nose and is a trait of the Nubians. If its dished face its Alpine. Again, this doesn't mean a whole lot, can't really tell unless i see a pic. Good luck, hope this helps. how does the doe's udder look? Does she ahve enough milk?

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 01, 2001.

PastorHughes, First, let me congratulate you on your doe kid. She must be very pretty as well as bouncy. 8 lbs is a pretty good sized kid for such an underweight mother to produce. I really like Nubian/Alpine crosses, they usually give lots of milk and have that hybrid vigor and vitality. You need to deworm the mother and give her any immunizations that she probably did not get from the former owner. It is pretty irresponsible to breed a doe that young and that small. If he(former owner) does it routinely then most of his goats will be stunted. I would reccommend finding another more reputable goat raiser in your area and learning from them. I would not worry too much about the color or markings. Nubians and French Alpines come in all sorts of cool colors and patterns. Things like strong feet and legs, udder size and attachment, spring of rib and barrel mean so much more than color. I have had some very Alpine looking markings from my crosses, cou clair, cou blanc, and chamoisee from Nubian/Alpine cross does bred to a purebred Nubian buck. I would enjoy the doeling and give some TLC to it's mother and count your blessings.

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), December 01, 2001.

Uh hum......... please Karen don't forget to mention in the same breath as French, the American Alpines. There are some of us Alpine breeders who get highly offended.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 01, 2001.

The little new born doe has stand up ears like alpines and stright nose and thick hair.....The little alpine was gotten like this.We bought land for campmeeting grounds .some one thought about brush goats to keep it nice so I ask at the feed store about goats,they told a man i wanted some goats to clear the land.Well me not knowing one goat from another lol thought the man was helping me and just trusted him to bring me what i needed lol.Well I ended up with about 15 head all kinds and some pg.Well to make a long story short,We fell in love with them all and want to do right by them so all of you have been such a blessing.Now with all your help they are healthy.this man sold these to me and just delivered.there were also pygmies so kind of wondered if she was maybe 1/2 pygmy since the nanny was so small.well she had no trouble and she is a very good mother.I do thank you all and like i said the nanny is not tall but very healthy,strong thick body very strong I looked in her mouth after we got her and she had 2 large teeth at that time.But this is our frist time so thanks.

-- Pastor Hughes (hbchurch@brightok.net), December 01, 2001.

Bernice, You have my deepest apologies for only mentioning French Alpines!!! Of course, the American Alpines are beautiful too and make just as nice kids when crossed with Nubians! LOL To misquote a famous Okie,"I never met a goat I didn't like!" I raise Nubians because I do not have the money or time or the land to raise every breed I want to raise. Pastor Hughes, If the former owner had more than one buck, it is probably anyones guess as to who the sire of the kid really is, but as you know, we love them all anyway.

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), December 02, 2001.

Hey Karen..... I need to apologize too, I meant that "toungue in cheeck" and this morning when i re read my post I realized that I forgot to add the afterwards. But its sort of funny in the alpine world how there seriously are breeders who get ruffled if the Americans are not mentioned.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 02, 2001.

If the dam was not registered, you have no assurance whether she was actually all Alpine anyway, and the same would go for the buck. The 'Nubian' buck could have been half Nubian, but had a roman nose, or floppy ears, but when bred to your doe, gave a Swiss type kid. An 8 lb kid is pretty good sized for a yearling, but birth weight in not necessarily an indicator of adult size anyway. Small kids can grow to be very large adults.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 03, 2001.