I've been working very hard in getting my family dairy goat farm back together after it was abandoned for 20 years. Repairing the main house, barns etc... It was my inheritance, I moved out of NYC back to the country...My goal was to raise miniature dairy goats to supply us with milk...poultry, etc...however...

Several neighbors have begun stopping by as they see my progress inquiring if I will be selling goat milk. My farm wont be in full operation until late spring/early summer. So far, 10 families have requested pricing information for the delivery of goat milk of at least a gallon a week...this of course, shoots me back to the days when my Dad provided goat milk from full size goats...something I'm not willing to do, but I'm willing to sell my excess milk from my miniatures...and this brings up my question...

My question is to those who sell goat milk, do you have your customers sign a disclaimer or waiver or something to the effect that you wont be held liable if they have a reaction to goat milk or to the effect that "this milk is for livestock only"? (by the way, thats how my Dad sold goat milk, it was purchased by hog farmers).

David SunDance Farm

-- David (CNY) (sundance@midtel.net), December 04, 2001

Answers

David what are the milk regs in your state? That will determine how contractual your agreement with your customers will need to be. If you are talking about illegal on farm sales, your problems will not come from your customers, but from legal grade A dairies in your area, once they catch wind of you. I simply state to my customers that it is illegal in Texas for me to sell you milk for your use, so I am selling it to you under the assumption that you will be feeding it to your livestock. In fact you can get a liscense for pet milk in Texas quite eaisly. As for any document being legally binding if someone was to get ill from your product, especially if the milk is raw and unpasturised, I would doubt anything would hold up in court. This is why I only sell pasturised milk to folks with young children or folks will ill families. Only repeat longtime customers do I sell raw milk to. Good luck with this and tell us what you find out! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Check with your county agent , state ag dept web sites and possibly the usda web site.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

I LOVE NEW YORK!

The Department of Agriculture & Markets in New York just gave me a ring. I don't need a permit, no license, no inspections, nothing... as long as I state that the sale is "DAIRY GOAT MILK FOR LIVESTOCK ONLY". Thats it! Gosh....just like the sign my Dad had at the entrance to the farm...well thanks everyone!

Oh by the way, the families that want the goat milk is for their pigs...they said they grow bigger and fatter on goat milk...so I might have a little nich....brings up the point of the miniature goats....hmmm which breed of miniature will provide me with the most milk...

Once again, thanks...

-- David (CNY) (sundance@midtel.net), December 04, 2001.

I suspect to be economically feasible you will have to go with full- size dairy goats. For example, say you had one which gave two- gallons a day. Say a mineature gave one-half gallon a day. You would have to maintain and milk four mineatures for what one full- size one would provide.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), December 04, 2001.

Hi David,

I'm in NJ and you are not allowed to sell goat milk but I never thought about the livestock angle.

There is a really neat miniature breed out that I was thinking of trying before I decided to go Boer. Dwarf Nubian. The correct ones look just like the Nubian, excellent milkers but just smaller. The bucks born would probably be wanted as pets, especially if they have blue eyes. I just love those ears.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 04, 2001.

Sorry, I forgot to say that my farm insurance (Farm Family) covers any sickness that may be caused by my eggs. Probably same for milk.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 04, 2001.

Dee look into your policy, it wouldn't cover it if you were involved in an illegal venture, and selling milk without a liscense is illegal.

David, you are going to have to learn a whole lot about goats. If you are serious about going the route of the miniature than get onto all the Nigerian Dwarf lists groups.yahoo.com, the true miniature dairy goat, just ask them! The crosses, Nigerian Dwarf bucks to full size dairy goats, makes your mini-Nubian, mini-Mancha etc. No matter what size animal you are dealing with knowing about disease, CAE, CL etc. is a must, especially if you think you are going to make a profit at this milk sales endevor. The labor involved between milking full sized does to the twice as many you will milk with minatures, is going to be huge. Twice as many hooves to trim, UCK! Be very careful not to fall into the trap of the purebred show Nigerian Dwarf (unless you are going to show and sell purebred stock), yes some have wonderful udders, lots of milk, but it does not give you a realistic view of most of the breed, and sorry to say the part of the breed new folks are likely to start with.

Being up north and especially in your area, I would be milking Alpines and Saanens. Then if you just have to have mini's than buy a really nice Nigerian Dwarf with really good milk scores in his mother and use him for replacement does. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

I agree with what Vicki mentioned, you need to research the regs. Please don not take at face value any verbal information, get it in writing. You can try www.realmilk.com to find NYS regs. We used to live in western NYS and at one time ahd a dairy, a cow dairy. We had to follow regs as per the st but we also shipped milk too. As for selling with a written disclaimer, well..... you could, but that may come back to bite you if you don't have as Vicki mentioned the correct permits. Our motto is don't trust anyone, not meaning that in a bad fashion, but you need to be careful. The world is filled with sue happy folks waiting for an opportunity and it just might be the person you least suspect too. Cover you selves and don't leave yourselves wide open. We ahve liability insurance with our dairy and so we are covered if we ship a bad tank. As for selling off the farm, here in AR we can legally sell 100 gallons of milk a month off the farm without a permit, however, we have a permit since we are Grade A. But I would not venture into this as you have to be careful, this is just my thoughts and how we handle this. Now in your case you are selling for livestock, I am well aware that many sts will allow sales for such, however, some require a dye to be placed in the milk for selling for livestock, but again, get it all in writing to cover yourself.

It sounds like you have a nice little income there from your excess milk, you are very fortunate to have found that. Many folks don't have that opportunity. with good herd management and good business forethought you should do well. Good luck!

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

I milk a purebred, but unpapered Alpine doe. At peak production, she gives a gallon and a half a day. She continues to give us a gallon or nearly a gallon for almost two years, so we only have to breed her every other day. I wish I could sell the surplus, but Michigan is not as accommodating as New York. I'm scared to death to do so liability-wise. I think the person who brought up having to maintain many mini's versus fewer full-size goats had some very valid points. The only plus with the Nigerian Dwarfs (the oldest breed of minature dairy goat) is that the kids (especially the buck kids) can be sold as pets much more readily than their full-size counterparts. There may be a good meat goat market in your area, but I always have trouble with doing that. Another reason we only breed every two years. Good luck with your venture. -- Cheers, Renee M.

-- Renee Martin (icehorse@altelco.net), December 04, 2001.

Too funny renee, breeding every other day? wow, I'll be good, won't even go there, !

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

Vicki, You misunderstood me. One of my customers used to eat my eggs raw and I wanted to make sure I was covered and probably the milk would be too IF someone drank it. I didn't say I sell milk. Remember, I bought the Boers so I wouldn't have to milk. It was more on the lines of check with your insurance, not do something illegal.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 04, 2001.

Dee..... I didn't infer from what vicki mentioned about needing a permit of license to sell milk was directed at you suggesting doing something illegal. I took what she said to mean that the insurance wouldn't cover the milk if there were a problem. The reason I think that is because of a case in VA where we used to live and a lady who was president of our dairy goat asociation getting arrested and her cheesemaking equipment confiscated for not selling without a permit. This same lady is fighting a case from 1979 and the right to farm act. She sold beef which she and her partner had processed or butchered themselves without following st regs and she was brought up on charges for that. Funny thing was she researched thew regs and nowhere did it specify selling meat like she did.

But I may be wrong and I bet Vicki will clarify what she meant. But selling milk without a permit can be sticky.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

Yep Dee, All I meant was that in your first post you said it was illegal to sell milk without a permit, then that your insurance covered your eggs, thats because you don't need a permit to sell eggs :) But if someone drank your milk and got sick your insurance company would run screaming from you if they found out that you din't have a permit, and were selling milk illegaly. Not that you would do that! :)

Some of us are just at a disadvantage, we give out information assumeing that everyone else knows all of our "stories"!! Selling milk is another one of those things in goats that best comes from the horses (government agency) mouth, some folks have ulterior motives to both give you bad information or to make information sound better than it is. Like if folks find out you want to open a dairy David and are selling goats :) "Yep no sweat on the regs" or someone who sells milk in your area finds out and doesn't want you for competition "Nope the red tape takes years" So just be careful.

Bernice is walking the walk and has for years, best listen to her advice, I am one of those under the table illegal kind of gals :) But then Texas forces us into it, with ZERO legal milk sales without 50 Thousand dollars in dairy equipments and barns. Put up the facility, try to make the mortage and pay labor and I can guarnatee you who is going to suffer is the goats! Seen it happen over and over in Texas. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Thanks Vicki, I just have to review everything I learned as a child from my Dad. My job was to trim hooves when I was 8 and give them their injections(AGH).

As for the miniatures (why I want them instead of the regular size).

Up here miniatures sell faster than the regular size goat and as an added plus, miniatures eat less, and they wont be a problem to handle for myself or my kids (notice I left my wife off that comment)

I know they wont provide me with the amount of milk of a regular sized goat BUT the bonus of their size for pets is a very BIG factor. The families that KNOW my grandparents/parents are hog farmers whom want the milk for their pigs BUT they also want the miniature goat for meat. Since boar goats would be better for meat than the straight dairy miniature I calculated based on the amount of traffic here of what people want, that I still will sell the dairy ones faster than the boar goats, (farmers here tell me that the boar goat meat is too hard as compared to the dairy goat meat which they find softer), So for now, I'll stick to the dairy miniatures.

By the way, THE MINI-NUBIAN IS REALLY BEAUTIFULL!!! I happened to see a couple at the Cobleskill Fair this past summer.

Okay, today I went to Albany to meet with the Department of Agriculture and Markets dairy director/supervisor and was told no dairy goat license, no permits, nothing and he gave me his card, if ever anyone questions my dairy farm. Also, I met with my county's Agriculture representative, whom by the way owns a few nubians, confirmed the same information. So I'm good to go as long as I stick with DAIRY GOAT MILK FOR LIVESTOCK ONLY!

Now to dust off some of the old books My Dad had laying around on goats....

-- David (CNY) (sundance@midtel.net), December 05, 2001.

Oh, I get it, but remember, I don't milk anyway. And the customer ate the eggs RAW (yuck) But I get it.

Good luck David. I have two Boer does for sale if you change your mind. And a mixed Boer buck. And don't forget to look for those blue eyes.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 05, 2001.

I have known two people in two states who sold raw milk and got around regs this way: either you signed a paper and bought a share in the cow, so it was your milk to go get from the cow for free, providing you paid for the feed and only took your portiion, or you paid a "fee" to have them provide the feed care and milking time on YOUR cow or you joined their dairy cooperative, which was pretty much the same thing...you bought a piece of the business for $20 bucks, which was refunded if you quit. Legally, it works in Wisconsin and Iowa, and we had raw milk.

-- marcee (thathope@mwt.net), December 06, 2001.

We are just starting our Dwarf Nubian herd out here in Oregon. I understand that they actually give around 2/3 the milk of a full sized dairy goat at about 1/2 the feed. So if that holds true, David, and considering the ease of selling extras, I think the Minis will serve you well! Please keep us updated on your new farm! Cara

-- Cara Dailey (daileyd@agalis.net), December 06, 2001.