No the M6AE is not here yet but I have heard from reliable sources (never steered me wrong yet) that the M6AE will be introduced at this spring's PMA. Is it true? I do not know but regardless I would not buy the first version; remember all the bugs with the early TTL cameras. Why am I passing this on? I am hoping we can talk about something else other than baiting each other.

PS: Leica has discontinued the 21mm finder. It is my favourite so I am going to stock up before they become collectibles :-)

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), December 04, 2001

Answers

Why would they discontinue the 21 mm finder? Because of the multi- finder?

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), December 04, 2001.

John: Amen, bro!

However, given Leica's track record with electronics, I am far less enthused by the idea than I was, say, six months ago. (This the bitter opinion of a man who just had 80% of a roll of slide film - NOT exposed by an R3 shutter). I may have to follow Doug Herr into the "Church of the SL".

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), December 04, 2001.

Hi Dennis,

It is a strange decision especially as they are keeping the 24 and 28 finders in production.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), December 05, 2001.

Sometimes I am not fast enough with the M6 having to adjust shutter, aperture and focus in sucession (perhaps not in that order) and do wish for some automation.

Does that mean that the M6AE would not have a mechanical shutter anymore or a hybrid shutter as in the Nikon FM3A ? And so still be battery independent if so called upon ?

-- Yip (koklok@krdl.org.sg), December 05, 2001.

"Something else other than baiting each other" indeed! Even the addition of 1970s technology to the M.....no, I can't zip my lip. Just a short time ago Daniel Taylor remarked that "the crowd has turned ugly, as they say, and I see no need to do so." That sums it up, but what has been happening here, and why? I noticed it first last week when somebody suddenly announced that his ESP had informed him Jay was a poseur. Talk about psychic whiplash! it was like stepping out of the Yale Club for a second and then going back in to find that it had been transformed into a biker bar. That last is not fair to bikers, who tend for obvious reasons to measure their words; but you get the point. Other mean spirited ad hominem utterances quickly followed and have been piling up. I do not think this miasma is will be be dispelled just by waiting it out in silence, if "The best lack all conviction, while the worst "Are full of passionate intensity." So I invite Tony or somebody else senior to me to quote the rule clearly establishing this site as a flame-free zone, and inform those newly arrived that patience and courtesy must be extended here to everyone even if - no, especially if- you don't think he knows his ASPH from a hole in the ground........

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), December 05, 2001.

Hi Yip,

Leica has stated in the recent past that the shutter would stay the same (cloth and horizontally run), only the timing mechanism would be electronically controlled. I strongly doubt they will adopt a hybrid shutter. Still it is a matter of wait and see.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), December 05, 2001.

John:

Any other info relating to faster shutter speed etc?? when is Spring in the US? Sorry, i go by months.

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), December 05, 2001.

Sparkie, 1/1000 is probably the limit for the horizontal cloth shutter.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 05, 2001.

>>>1/1000 is probably the limit for the horizontal cloth shutter<<<

The Leicaflex cameras beginning in the mid-1960s had a horizontal cloth shutter with a 1/2000 sec top speed and 1/100 flash sync. The SL2's 1/2000 sec speed is unreliable but the SL's shutter is nearly indestructible, short of sticking a misplaced thumb through it.


-- Douglas Herr (telyt@earthlink.net), December 05, 2001.

thanks Bob/Douglas. is there still hope for 1/2000 M6AE? ..fingers crossed. regards,

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), December 05, 2001.

I don't know about other cameras, but when Olympus rated their horizontal cloth shutter at 1/2000, it always seemed to be over- rated. Mine measured in (from exposure testing) at somewhere not very much faster than 1/1000.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), December 05, 2001.

Thanks for passing along the rumor. Has there been any indication of how the AE would work? For example, would it simply adjust the shutter speed to whatever aperture is set manually on the lens? (Thus, requiring no lens modification.) Or, might they go all out and try to adjust both, with user setting a choice of priorities? (With the corresponding impact on lens design.)

It also strikes me that power consumption would be an interesting design challenge. I've had limited success in jump-starting the tractor off the M6 TTL's batteries.

Any thoughts?

-- Ralph Barker (rbarker@pacbell.net), December 05, 2001.

The PME is happening in February which is certainly not spring in my part of the world unless -30C is considered balmy where you hail from. It will be an aperture priority camera as otherwise they would have to redesign all their lens mounts. I agree with Doug. I cannot see any problem with squeezing 1/2000 and 1/100 but we wil just have to wait and see. It is a rumour, albeit a seemingly reliable one, but not a spec sheet. Battery consumption will definitely be a concern. Perhaps getting rid of the old mechanical shutter mech might free up more space than is required by the new electronics. Then they could put in a deeper battery compartment like the one in the R7. The problem is that the M camera has no spare space to stick anything extra. They had to raise the top plate 2mm just get in the flash TTL circuitry.

An interesting aside which has been discussed before is that the M6TTL has an exposure lock already built in. The first movement of the shutter release activates the meter but, if you keep on going, before the shutter fires, the meter reading locks. The flash TTL electronics are out of the R8 so perhaps the shutter control from the R8 is also lurking under the hood as well.

Just to remind you, the only thing that the rumour states is that the M6AE will be released in Feruary at the PME.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), December 05, 2001.

[removed. poof. -T]

-- Hugh Jass (Hjass@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

How long would they keep making the m6ttl should this thing be released? Any guesses?

-- Ken Kwok (kk353@yahoo.com), December 05, 2001.

When Leica introduced the M6TTL they opened to door to a slightly larger M6 to incorporate the additional electronics. What will the M6AE bring us? An M6 larger than the M6TTL? The M6TTL is ugly if you ask me, the 2 mm higher top cover ruins the classic looks. I'm very afraid of the looks M6AE...

BTW, an M6AE isn't my cup of tea. I'll stick my M6 Classic.

-- Bert Keuken (bkkn@wanadoo.nl), December 05, 2001.

I am sure that Leica will keep the mechanical camera in production as many people prefer it. A few years ago, when I did not have a M with a built in meter, I thought I needed an aperture priority camera. Now, after hundreds of rolls of film through my TTL, it is all pretty automatic for me to quickly adjust the exposure. Light conditions do not change tha much in a typical situation so I just set the exposure and stop looking at the diodes.

Now Leica will be offering six different cameras! One mechanical and one AE body with three different viewfinders. Oh and two finishes as well! Heck that is twelve different cameras!! Perhaps they will drop the 0.85x finder now that the 1.25x magnifier is available.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), December 05, 2001.

Yes, there could well be cost issues for Leica with more models. Buy your 0.85s now as they might (sensibly) be discontinued!

As someone who always sets his shutter speed first (and usually forgets it thereafter) an AE electronic shutter is a real bore. Still it does seem to be something that so many people want.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Is Hugh Jass a "nom de guerre"?

-- jeff voorhees (debontekou@yahoo.com), December 05, 2001.

I thought the remarks of Hugh Jass exemplified precisely what David Kelly was talking about. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, this is the sort of arrant nonsense, up with which we will not put. We do need a flame-free forum. Maybe some controls are in order.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 05, 2001.

I don't know why Leica would discontinue the 21 finder...even if they started packaging it with the lens people still lose them, etc. and would need a replacement!

About the top shutter speed....they could go faster if they replaced the cloth curtain with titanium ala Nikon. OR...they could copy Contax G and make a vetical curtain. It's electronic and certainly more accurate at faster (and sticky slow) speeds.

I suppose auto-focus is not an option on this AE model? It should be interesting to see what kind of camera this is!

Todd

-- Todd Phillips (toddvphillips@webtv.net), December 05, 2001.

At first i thought, no big deal . But nearly any design for an electronically controlled shutter leica chooses to make (or buy out) would almost have to be more accurate and probably stepless -a very big deal if you shoot slides. And it could even have a respectably high synch, too. If they could pull that off and keep the noise down they'd sell a bunch of them. Maybe Konica finally awakened the sleeping

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), December 05, 2001.

In retrospect, my favorite camera is the Nikon FE2. I work with ap. and within reason I don't care what the shutter speed is. You are suggesting that they may make an FE2 that will use Leitz lenses. Well, I would be first in line.

I will wait and see.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), December 05, 2001.

I second Art's motion but modify it: an affordable Nikon rangefinder (not a collectible retro S3) with the functions and shutter of an FE2 and an M-mount. FE2's were the perfect balance between the tank-like F3 and "everybodies backup body", the FM2. I've been told that an SLR can never take an M-lens because of that little thing called a mirror, but we can dream, can't we?

-- Pat Dunsworth (pdunsworth@aryarch.com), December 06, 2001.