I am now donning flame suit in preparation ... but have read some of the threads regarding the question the lady posted about the possibility of non-vet neutering of the cat ... and am going to post some thoughts on this thanks to a recent experience of my own.

First ... I do remember (some 50 years ago) my grandfather doing this. We had several neutered tomcats in the barn the stayed there minding their own business ... catching mice and not out "tomcatting". Yes, the circumstances were different. We were on a remote ranch/homestead in Montana ... nearest vet was 50 miles over bad/gravel roads and at the time I remember going to town maybe once a month during the summer and not at all during the winter. So if someone does know what they are doing, obviously it can be done, though I would not personally attempt it.

Second ... for those people who have house cats/pets and anthropormorphize them ... I can understand how it would be a very touchy issue. I have had house cats/pets and house dogs/pets that I would always take to the vet under any circumstances and would gladly tolerate major vet bills (and have done so) for their care and treament.

ON THE OTHER HAND ... I have just had a very rude awakening as to why I feel this woman not only had a legitimate question but that the reasons for her inquiry were not inappropriate ... and why I feel some of the responses were unjustified.

I had a yellow tomcat wander in to the farm this summer, more dead than alive. Very gentle, obviously someone dropped him off as he'd obviously been someone's house cat. He had a nasty abcess in one shoulder and was nothing but hair and hide over bones. The abcess broke and drained, I kept it clean, fed him well and he settled into a useful job ... keeping the mice out of the feed building, which had been a problem. A month ago he was obviously being very useful, is now fat ... but the abcess was not fully healed ... kept breaking open again and draining a little. Decided to take him to the vet to check and see if it was because he had feline lukemia (which can cause this) and if not, give him the shot for that and rabies ... and have him neutered. Certainly felt he was "pulling his weight" at the farm as I haven't seen signs of a mouse in the feed building since shortly after he arrived.

Decided NOT to have him neutered at that time (for which I am extremely glad) ... he stayed overnight for the FELV test ... they cleaned the abcess site ... tranquilized him for it but didn't do anything more than just open it up and flush it ... and I received a bill for $160.00 ... !!!!

This is from the same vet clinic that will come out and do work on half a dozen horses and unless it's something like several major procedures ... the bill is under $200 ...

This is $160 that I really did not have to spend, particularly on a "stray" cat ... if I had any idea the bill for what they did would have been this high, it would not have been done. I could have cleaned out the abcess area myself, got antibiotics and done EXACTLY what they did, other than the FELV test and vaccine ... for $30.00 ...

I like the cat ... but I consider him a "working cat" ... not a pet. And while he does do his job well, I can't see him EVER killing enough mice to pay for $160 worth of mouse poison ... which would have probably taken care of the mice almost as well.

Am I happy with this? ... NO!!!

Will I take the cat back to be neutered? .... NO!!!

If my grandfather were still here and available ... would I let him neuter the cat ... probably, yes ...

... and now I'll duck ...

-- SFM in KY (timberln@hyperaction.net), December 06, 2001

Answers

Quite a brave little soul aren't you! heeheehee! You must be one of those guys that likes to lick flagpoles in the winter time! heehee! DUCK! SHEW! That was close.....those rotten tomatoes are really smelly! heeheehee!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 06, 2001.

Yeee ... haaaa ...

Hey, it's not the tomatoes I worry about ... it's the rotten eggs I really, really HATE!

SFM

-- SFM in KY (timberln@hyperaction.net), December 06, 2001.

SFM I would probably let your grandfather neuter my cats too! Some people just know how to get by and some people don't. Good luck!

-- cowgirlone (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

SFM, I found nothing upsetting about your post, and don't see how anyone will be provoked to flame you. I'd be pissed myself if I had to pay $160 bucks for the services you described. But, "doing the right thing" ain't always easy & it's hardly ever cheap. You did right by the cat in having his wounds treated, and since he can't thank you, please accept mine on his behalf! I gotta tell you, though, your decision not to go ahead and get him neutered is going to backfire. For one thing, that abcess likely came from him fighting with another tom, which he'll continue to do for as long as he's whole, so you'll have more injuries/abcesses to contend with in the future. You're lucky he was leukemia free, but that virus is transmitted by breeding and fighting...both of which he'll do until he's fixed. He won't be leukemia free for very long this way. And three, while you did not seek this cat out nor ask for him to come live with you, fact is, he's yours now. And as this cat's owner, you have a responsibility to neuter him, if for no other reason than to prevent homeless kittens.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), December 06, 2001.

I'm wondering, is it ever satisfactory for the spay and neuter everything in sight crowd to leave an animal alone and let it live naturally? I don't have any cats now. Had one on the farm, that wasn't fixed, never seemed to cause any problems hanging out around the barn. Now I do put out food for several feral cats around here. A few are friendly enough to let me pet them. They appear extremely healthy(long before I started leaving food for them) and mostly stay in a patch of woods here. Should I disrupt their lives and capture them, get them neutured or spayed and find homes for them or have them put to death? Are they somehow suffering because they live wild as opposed to being humanized?

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), December 06, 2001.

Dave, you've made a very good point. I have two inside cats that are neutered. Outside, we have approximately 12 cats. Some are petable but mostly are wild. We provide them with food and water. Also there is shelter in the barn and garage. I cannot justify spending the amount of money needed to neuter them, etc. We enjoy watching their antics and personalities and they enjoy the food. They seem to be doing TOO well as the number is growing. I know there are two females that are at least 5 years old! Now...if i am going to get the sermon on neutering, cruelty and so forth, so be it. I just won't read this thread!

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

How cruel is banding for a tom? I did two. Neither showed the slightest bit of discomfort. Neither seemed to miss the next meal. One went to the vet simply because the elasticator wasn't put on close enough to the body and it cut the scrotum, but not the cords. Even with the scrotum and testicles hanging down it didn't show any discomfort. My mistake. Live and learn. Next time I'll make double sure I do it right. The vet himself said he doesn't disapprove of banding if done properly. An elasticator costs a couple of cents, versus a healthy vet bill for basically the same thing.

I have banded about 100 newborne bull calves. None showed any discomfort. I have cut about 100 older bull calves. Probably 95% showed no discomfort and the other 5% for only a day or two of walking a bit stiff legged. Hey, when I was neutered, I walked a bit gingerly for a couple of days also.

I don't consider either banding or cutting to be inhumane when done properly. Just something which needs to be done.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), December 06, 2001.

Nice post SFM in KY, but why didn't it occur to you to ask about the fees before you had the cat treated, I'm not afraid to ask upfront from my loyal and cheap vet even now if it is an unfamilair procedure being done on our animals. Always, always ask "how much" before hand, cause like everything else the price is wildly variable in a given area.

Dave, having your companion animals neutered and spayed is just the ethical thing to do, otherwise you are contributing to the millions of companion animals who are killed, often painfully, without proper anesthesia, every day in this country. It's like recycling, or having a responsible number of children, just the moral and ethical thing to do; you know the old saying, "You are either part of the problem, or part of the solution".

Ardie, bless your dear and kind soul, I know you love your critters, just like I do, but same thing applies as Dave asked. I have had to borrow a Have-A-Heart live trap many times to have some of our semi- feral barn cats spayed/neutered and innoculated for rabies. I count my blessings that I have found an excellent and cheap (30 dollars for males, 40 for females) vet that works with me on price depending on individual circumtances. A good and loyal vet is priceless!

There is a time when self neutering of males critters would be appropriate, if you already have tons of experience castrating other large animals on the farm, have all the proper sharp and antiseptic tools required, and have a deft and sure hand at surgical skills ( including suturing), and the antibiotics and knowledge to use them if something goes amiss, have at it!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 06, 2001.

Shannon ... I am going to answer to your post specifically, though I told myself I would not do that when I first posted.

First, since the test did show the cat is FELV-free, I have given him the vaccine to prevent future infection ... that and rabies will be given on a regular basis for as long as he lives here. Basic care for a "working cat" ... like the cat food I purchase and provide.

However ... you also posted this comment ... " while you did not seek this cat out you are now this cat's owner and as the owner you have a responsibility" ...

I'm sorry ... no, I do not agree with this. This cat was someone else's responsibility which they did not accept. Yes ... I could have taken him to the local County shelter ... where they would have stuffed him in a cage and euthanized him 3 days later, which would obviously been better than allowing him to die out in the woods.

I do not feel that my choosing NOT to take this route and instead choosing to feed him obligates me to spend $$$ on his care that I need to provide the proper feed and care for the livestock that support me.

I am not a "hobby farmer" ... I do not have "outside income" ... if I don't provide the right care, feed and veterinary care for my income- producing livestock I do not have income.

I choose to have one housedog that is a pet ... and that is her only function. She is spayed, she gets all the necessary vaccinations, worming and flea protection that any beloved (and useless) pet should have. I feel I can afford that care for one pet ... no more.

I will see if there are any local animal rescue organizations that provide assistance for neutering a "stray" animal in circumstances like this. If there is and I feel I can afford what they don't pay ... I will have the cat neutered. But if there is not, I can't and won't use money that I need for the required care of animals I have choosen to have as pets ... and have chosen to accept responsibility for, financial and otherwise, plus the animals that provide my income ... to do things that someone else has not. I will do what I can to see that he has food, shelter and basic vaccinations ... this I feel I "owe" to him in return for his mouse population control ... another $100+ vet bill for neutering ... don't think so ...

Annie ... in response to your query as to why I didn't ask about fees "up front" ... actually, I did. What I didn't ask was what the "total visit" would cost, I asked about the cost about specific charges ... the FELV test and vaccine, etc. This was the "pet vet" side of the clinic and I've always dealt with the "farm vet" side of the clinic ... so communication was definitely not what it should have been. I will definitely not make this mistake again.

-- SFM in KY (timberln@hyperaction.net), December 06, 2001.

SFM, ouch!!! Sorry it was such an expensive mistake!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 06, 2001.

And then there is the story about my friend's father who took all the farm cats in to the vet. They were all neutered/spayed and got their shots and all. That summer they all got killed on the road!

-- Ardie/Wi (ardie54965@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

To those of who find the high cost of spaying and neutering a "volunteer" cat high, I agree with you. Especially if these cats are what are called "feral" cats (volunteers or the ever present "drop-'em- off-at-the-farm" cats). The caretaker (the person who is feeding them) of a "feral" colony is different from the owner of a pet cat. Although it is NOT the responsibility of the caretaker of a "feral" colony to have the animals spayed or neutered, if you seek help, you may find it. Some animal groups have money set aside specifically to assist those who have a "feral" colony on their property. It is usually called "Trap/Neuter/Release--TNR" or something like that. Sometimes, a local university or college has the same type of program. They provide you with a humane trap to trap the animal, and when you bring it in they will neuter it, give it shots (rabies and vaccinations), "tip" the ear (to denote it's have been altered) and return it to you for you to release on your property, or if the animal is young enough, they will try to find a home for it. In many cases there is NO CHARGE to do this. Of course, donations are always welcome, appreciated and needed. These types of programs are for "feral" cats only, not pets. However, some of these same agencies will assist an individual in obtaining a lower cost spay or neuter.

What it does boil down to -- if you voluntarily brought this animal into your home, you are responsible for it for it's lifetime, for ALL it's needs. If it is a volunteer to your home and if you want no obligations, do not feed it and it will (hopefully) move on. Feeding a volunteer animal is welcoming it to your home, it will continue to stay.

My suggestion to the lady who originally started this thread -- have you asked the woman you know who does her dogs (obviously she has experience) if she would do your cat? I do not think banding should be done by a person with no experience.

MissJudi

-- MissJudi (jselig@clemson.edu), December 06, 2001.

I agree with Annie; there's a proper situation for self-neutering. We are fortunate to have a good vet,but just to be sure, I tell them up front what I want done, what I am willing to pay for and I make sure I know fully what they intend to do for the animal. We had a similar experience to SFM's with a large dog, and sometimes you feel like those vets take advantage of your kind-heartedness. Our vet has adopted the practice of fully explaining the procedures before I even get a chance to ask, now.

-- Dawn (olsoncln@ecenet.com), December 06, 2001.

MissJudi ... sorry, it wasn't me that knows someone who bands the dogs for neutering ... my grandfather did do cats years ago ... and if he were still here I'd feel comfortable having him do this one.

Growing up on a Montana ranch, I have castrated large numbers of young bull calves ... I raised dogs for a number of years and banded tails very successfully ... have never had an infected calf or an infected puppy ... but definitely would not try banding a cat (or dog) without knowing how it should be done or knowing that the person doing it knew what they were doing.

SFM

-- SFM in KY (timberln@hyperaction.net), December 06, 2001.

Just a comment on "unwanted kittens". I live in the country like I assume most of you others do. How often have you ever seen an excess of cats? I don't mean a normal rise and fall of the population, I'm talking about too many cats on an ongoing basis. I never have, and I've never neutered any of the barn cats here. The dogs, male and female, are neutered as puppies, but the barn cats aren't done. Seems to me too many cats is a city problem, where a cat population in a small area is taken care of (i.e., well fed) and allowed to breed. I don't think it happens in the country, at least not as a normal situation.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), December 06, 2001.

Jennifer, I have never had a problem with too many "unwanted, homeless" kittens either. The law of the land seems to keep everything in balance. The cats keep the mouse population down and the coyotes an owls keep the cat population down. Sounds like normal life in the country.

-- cowgirlone (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

cowgirl, Jennifer and Ardie, I think you relate to what I was trying to say. At what point do you live and let live. A few are saying I should go trap these cats in the woods. I don't understand why. They're not suffering. As far as I can see they're not causing any harm or being a nuisance to anyone. They're not becoming dependent on my food offerings to the point where they'd forget the survival skills they used before I came along. I only supplement their food supply a bit. What right do I have to pull them out of their natural enviroment? Where do you draw the line? If you'd do that for cats, why not the possums, skunks, mice and all the other animals living wild? I don't see anyone saying we should trap, spay and neuter skunks that live in the woods. So why cats? Is it because for some it's hard to imagine a cat is able live a good healthy life without being dependant on a human?

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), December 06, 2001.

we have way to many cats here running around in the woods,your barn,under the house...ect. many cats wander around half starved. they are trash eaters and a pain in the rear-end. some folks see fit to feed 20 cats from their back porch that all breed ,and then leave their offspring to fend in the wild. when you go to the trash dumpster ther are 3-4 half starved kittens eating what ever they can find. last week my hunting dogs put 3 half grown cats up in a tree in the front yard at 3 dif. times not fun at 2:00am till 4:30am i had to shoot the cats out to make the dogs be quiet again. while hunting we average 1 cat treed every 2-3 hunts i guess i will start shooting them during that time instead of loosing sleep because of owners who do not fix their cats.

-- paul (pacole@statecom.net), December 06, 2001.

Dave, domestic cats are not native to this or any country, they disrupt the balance of nature when allowed to self-overpopulate in the wild, just as packs of feral dogs do. You can't compare wild animals to feral cats, they are not a native species.

The reason you don't "see" an overpopulation problem is because they are feral, they hide from humans, but they are there if you look. The ones that do survive spread rabies, distemper and feline leukemia to the feline wild animals, and in the case of rabies, to all warm blooded animals.

As a biologist their opinion of this question, you will get a resounding "Please neuter/spay your cats!!! The feral ones are interfering with the survival of wild native species." Not to mention that it is immoral and unethical not to act responsibly about the effects of companion animal overpopulation, millions are being killed every day in an effort to control the population growth, is that a good thing to allow to happen to DOMESTIC companion animals???

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 06, 2001.

for cring out loud dont you people have a ffa program in your school system? when i was in high school we had field trips and cut eny thing and every thing for enybody. that was the day us country kids shined because we already knew how. when i was 10 years old i was helping my dad work some 40 lb shoats and i couldnt hold them that was the day i learned the fine art of casturation. Bob se.ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@kans.com), December 06, 2001.

aren't there quite a few species of animals that originally weren't native to this country but later became to be part of wildlife? I can hardly walk outside here without stepping on snails that originated from being brought over by the French 150 years ago. The snails probably helped to increase the population of whatever eats them, maybe all the lizards that these cats love to eat. The balance of nature is constantly being upset or changed, however you look at it. Why not let previously thought of domestic cats evolve into a wild species as they seem to be doing fine by themselves? Do they really spread rabies and other diseases moreso than any other animal in the wild? What is the difference between a forest full of squirrels or a forest full of cats? Is it because we've always looked at cats as cute furry pets that need us? We must have taken them out of the wild at some point long ago. Maybe it was humans who upset the balance of nature. We surely have interferred with the survival of wild native species a whole lot more than feral cats ever have. Humans have homeless, overpoplulation, and starving issues also. Are trap/neuter/release programs for us coming in the future? ; )

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), December 06, 2001.

It seems the coyotes do a decent job of keeping the cat population in check here ensuring only the strong survive. I wish they'd eat these darn snails too though.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), December 06, 2001.

Here's a question for you---

When I was a girl we had an unaltered female cat. Everytime she came into season we were awakened to the sound od fighting as cats came into our yard from what must have been a considerable distance. If tom cats travel that far, how will neutering a MALE cat prevent the conception of the unaltered female???If a female cat is unaltered, wouldn't EVERY tom in the area have to be neutered to prevent the birth of another litter of kittens???

Some how, it doesn't seem llikely that EVERY tom in a 1 mile radius or so would be fixed, so wouldn't the only effective way to prevent kittens be to spay the female?? And, before anyone asks, yes my tom cat IS fixed: I had it done to keep him home and make him less cranky and tired with the kids. Since we fixed him he is home catching mice and being tolerant and even FRIENDLY with the kids!

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), December 06, 2001.

I did have my cats all fixed and as soon as I did I lost 4 of them to road kill or unexplained reasons.I am lucky that i can have them done for 10.00 thru spay and neuter now .Still makes me mad that as soon as I did it the got killed.I feel jinxed !

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

I didn't make it through all of the post yet, but I have wonderd why so many people feel they must pay a vet for something they could learn to do themselves, there is alot of "you should be a responsible pet owner" retortic. I really belive that being a responsible amimal owner (or parent for that matter) means LEARNING how to do what has to be done, and as for making a mistake while learning, do you really think vets do it right very time? They most certainly do not, even on the tv shows they show the new vets having trouble with some procedures, and experienced surgical vets make boo-boo's and the animal dies, or it cost more than they said it wouid.

That is real life, if you have animals you should study them, watch them, learn the anatomy and health concerns for the animals you have, learn to read body language, and eye expression, so you know what is and isn't right with them.

Banding, or home treatment/surgery is not bad husbandry, nor is leaving the animal intact or culling, or not throwing money at a problem before you find out your options, (I suspect that the bad banding experiences were done by someone afraid to smoosh the testicles to the bottom of the scrotum, which is not so easy in cats and/or not watching the animal afterward)

My grandfather and my Dad would get an animal drunk then cut (with the good scissors) or sew as needed, cauterize with a cigarette or a hot iron if needed, and the critter never gave it a thought, at least that anyone could tell, because it would sway from side to side and beg more food as the bucket was moved away.

But not dealing with the consequences that, your choices bring IS bad, not learning to do better is bad, and blasting someone for asking is bad,

If I ever face the choice of 'Do it myself or the animal will die' I could very well cut and sew, and I think in many cases a death at home where the animal is loved on and prayed over would be better than spending money and adding to the stress the poor thing has to go through.

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

Alright, says he, donning the leather apron and the leather gauntlets:

You're all crazy!

Right! When I made a mild comment on a controversial subject before I was told that I'd gone out of my way to offend both sides, so I thought I'd make sure I knew I was doing it this time. On to sensible matters.

I'd have banded the cat, just as I described to Vanessa how it could be done. However, my aim then was to put her off from doing it. I know how, and she didn't (although she's got a better idea of what's onvolved now than she did then, and that's sort of the idea of this forum - information sharing). Flame wars and high indignation on the basis of low information on either side don't really help us with homesteading, do they? My personal opinion of banding is that it's no worse, and may be better, than using a knife (call it surgical procedures if you like, but it's using a knife). As a kid, I put one of those bands on (my FINGER, alright?) and observed. Cut off circulation (they are very VERY strong and VERY small when they contract to their natural size and VERY tight), and ached a bit. After a bit, if I'd left it on, the ache would have died away (along with the isolated extremity). I'd imagine that would be a whole lot less painful than the aftermath of "surgical procedures" - let alone without anaesthesia. If anyone doesn't know this much about the rubber band method (or the knife, which I've used too), then they aren't entitled to criticise - they literally don't know what they're talking about.

As to excess fertile cats - they do make feral cats, and cats are extremely efficient predators of small mammals, birds and reptiles. If your barn cats aren't feral, it's probable that most of their offspring will be - forced away simply by population pressure. Now, I'm talking from experience in Australia here, where feral cats have made enormous inroads into our native wildlife. I'll allow that it may be different in North America, and your feral cats may be little angels, and not hunt, and agree that the right thing for themselves to do is to silently fade away. However, I honestly don't think it's likely.

In fact, your feral cats will be wiping out large percentages of your native birds (cardinals, blue jays, humming birds, mocking birds, nestling bald eagles, any eggs, whatever they can get) and mammals (squirrels, chipmunks, rabbits, mice, voles, shrews) and reptiles (lizards, garter snakes, young turtles and tortoises, any eggs (again), whatever) - and fish and crayfish and frogs and eels and whatever else they can see (cats evolved beside the Nile - they're extremely efficient hunters in shallow water, and can also swim competently). I'm prepared to allow that in North America you've got more moderate-sized predatators preying on feral cats that we do, so their numbers may be fairly-well kept in check. However, they've done a lot of damage first, and any step in the food chain is inefficient - i.e. if a fox or a bobcat takes a feral cat, it will only get about one to ten percent of the food value the cat has consumed, and it's probably been forced to that because the cat has consumed the food the predator would have been eating itself. If that's the case, we could have had a lot more cardinals and lizards (and shrews, to eat the snails), or a lot more bobcats and foxes, or a lot more of everything, just like it used to be, without the intrusion of the feral cat.

Unrestrained breeding of anything that will go feral is ungood in the extreme. Anything that reduces the chances of that happening is better, even if it's not a guarantee.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), December 06, 2001.

You know the problem with this planet is not feral cats or too many dogs or cows or wild horses, it's too many people. Why don't we do the TNR program on humans. We can start in the big cites and move to the third world countries and I know the Arabs would be a lot nicer if they did not have all that testosterone coursing thru their bodies. Before long, we would have lots of clean air and water and trees and no more wars and peace everywhere. The cats and dogs would thank us too.

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), December 06, 2001.

Start in the cities? snicker snicker! Guess that we know where we live huh?

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), December 06, 2001.

Thanks Don, for stressing the point again that feral cats do terrible harm to the ecosystems of the planet, folks still have a hard time understanding that point!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 07, 2001.

I'm sure getting tired of some folks telling others to cut all their critters. Where I live, there's a large population of Spanish folks, and with their heritage, no male is ever cut. Strange, there's not a bunch of cat's dogs, horses and whatever running around and causing havoc.

Guess I should don the flame suit, 'cause I, too, have never cut a male dog/cat. The only reason I cut the females is due to the bloody mess they can make when they're in season.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

Sounds like if there is a large population of Spanish folk, that the males are not cut ( vasectomy)ever either :-)!!! Just couldn't resist the bad pun, it's not rascist, but like the jokes about the Roman Catholics and all their children, and the Jewish families only having two children.... sorry, just couldn't let that one pass without a giggle or two!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 07, 2001.

It's true, Annie.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), December 09, 2001.

I didn't know it was a big deal to neuter your tom cat. I have people dropping off cats and dogs all the time. I had taken in all the girls but my diary farmer came over and did the toms. I thought that was okay and cats were fine. I just assumed everything was okay. I after all we do the sheep and cattle ourselves. Now, someone has dropped off 4 dogs and a cat. I have found homes for two of the dogs but in my backyard is the other two dogs and now this female cat that is probably pregnant. I really can't spend all this money all fixing them. There is no humane place for animals in the country. The vets say I have to pay to put to sleep. I have paid in the past for shots on animals so that the vets could find homes, they probably took the money and put the animal to sleep. If someone knows how to take care of the animals why pay the vets.

-- Debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), December 10, 2001.