I have short-listed 3 P&S cameras to supplement my M6ttl. They are 1.Contax T3, 2.Leica Minilux and 3.Konica Hexar (silver?). I am asking comments from knowledgeable friends here who have at least owned or used 2 of them. What and why is your prefence? I concern most about quality of lens and followed by quietness and ease of use, size is not that a matter to me. Any P&S cameras with lens of better quality than the above 3 can be recommended? Thanks a lot for your advices. Regards

-- tom tong (tom.tong@ckh.com.hk), December 06, 2001

Answers

Without hesitation I recommend the Konica Hexar. The 35mm f/2 is supposed to be a copy of the Leica 35mm pre-ASPH Summicron and it is sharp with nice bokeh. The shutter is very quiet, viewfinder nice and bright, meter, AF very accurate. If you are looking for a one body one lens combo this is it.

I had the Contax T3 for a little while and find it hard to use because of the small size. For me at least it was too light to hold studily. If you must have a Contax I recommend the T2 instead.

Haven't used the Minilux but my friends swear by it. If you prefer manual focus then how about a Bessa-R with 35mm Pancake lens?

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), December 07, 2001.

The Konica Hexar (With quiet mode - you can ad this to silver ones by sending it to somebody in Australia - i read about this elsewhere) is as big as (if not a bit bigger) then a M6 and i don't really think it can be considered a point and shoot... its a seperate rangefinder camera with a fixed lens - which may be exactly what you are looking for. I don't own one but have used it in a store and will be buying one as soon as i have the 90cron and 35lux. I personally use a Ricoh GR1 (28/2.8), which is in the same quality league as the others you mentioned, and love it - i find it to be the perfect compliment to my M6 with 50cron when walking around a city. the M around my neck and the cron in my pocket just in case i need a wider view. One of the main draws of this camera is its incredibly small size, plus its wide angle (for a point and shoot)... i guess it would be the one to get if you like wide angles.

-- Matthew Geddert (geddert@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

I use a Hexar Titanium and a Leica Minilux. Both cameras have excellent lenses that can be used wide open without any disappointment. While the compact Minilux actual is ideal for snapshots the Hexar is a camera for serious photograpy with a size comparable with your M6. The Hexar's advantages are its accurate AF, its silent mode (more silent focussing and film transport than Leica M) and its bigger body for male hands. Unfortunately the Hexar's controls are fiddly but the pics are great. IMO the poor man's Leica Hexar is more versatile than P&S cameras like Leica Minilux, Contax T3 or Ricoh GR1 which are really tempting.

-- Frank Thoma (Thoma2811@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

Tom:

I don't meet your criteria as a person who has owned/used two of the models you mention, but I do own/use a Leica Minilux Zoom and can tell you that the lens quality is excellent for a P&S. The lens is not as fast as the modern Leica primes, but resolution and contrast are very good. It's perhaps not a compact as other P&S's, but it's solid and reliable -- built like a little brick. Great little camera to toss in your briefcase.

-- Jim Reed (jimreedpc@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

I handled those cameras and a few more, before settling on a Minilux. The Contax only let me use wide open aperture in Program mode, otherwise f/4 was the widest I could set in aperture-priority. Also, as a one-lens system I wanted the longest lens of the bunch, which was the 40mm in the Minilux (same as the Rollei 335S I've been using for many years). The Hexar's top shutter speed is 1/250, which I don't see the reason for, as leaf shutters have been easily going to 1/500 and higher for years. Given the Hexar's size, I would go for a Contax G1 and have lens interchangeability. I wanted a P&S with manual control as a backup for my M system, and as a weekend- trip camera. The Minilux is just perfect...the only gripes are the low-magnification viewfinder with small image, the lack of filter threads, and the fact that each time you turn it on it defaults to auto-flash-on and I have to manually scroll through several button pushes to cancel the flash.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

Hexar had noticable barrel distortion in the sample I had. Also focus was so quiet (in quiet mode) that I had a job telling whether it had done it's business at all. IF the barrel distortion was atypical I think this is a fine camera. I struggle to find the GR1 lens quality all that special (I've borrowed this camera extensively and a leica friend has one and consistently denegrates it's performance (but hasn't actually got rid of it)). Also, I know a lot of people with broken/semi-faulty versions. It seems to be a must-have camera here in the UK currently. The T2 I owned took brilliant pictures (f4 and smaller) and handled excellently - unfortunately the metal v.f. surround scratched my glasses and in the end I sold it. The T3 I played with in a shop seemed a little too tiny to me and it struck me as in no huge rush to focus - (a bit like the Contax N1 but that's another story) I know that it features a re-computed lens... Optically, from my experience there is nothing to touch the minilux - the 40 f2.4 lens is wonderful even at 2.4. HOWEVER, how annoying is it that you need to turn the flash off (press, press, press) every time you turn the thing on (not the case with the later zoom version- so leica seem to know how annoying this is - so where's the minilux 2?!)? Also, the really useful focus confirmation of the T2 is missing and the v/f (although spectacle friendly) is pretty tiny, the af is not that certain and the reliability isn't perfect. I know rollei have just come up with some 38 2.6 (??) compact for c. £400 which may be good - seems to be aperture priority etc. but I haven't had the chance to get hold of one yet to play with. My advice, on balance, would be to get the T2 s/h or put up with the foibles of the minilux, but there sure is a hole in the market for that new improved minilux...

-- Steve Jones (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), December 07, 2001.

Done it again - failed to read to the end of the previous poster's thread 'til after I wrote my stuff - apologies to Jay who already mentioned the flash quirk on the minilux...

-- Steve (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), December 07, 2001.

In this set of three, I prefer the Contax T3 to the Minilux as I like the smaller size and find the features/lens very suitable. The Hexar Silver is not compact enough to be considered for carrying as an alternative to the Leica M; it does have an excellent lens, no question.

But truth be told, I would carry a Rollei 35S or a Minox 35GT-E in preference to all three of them. I prefer the more manual, user controllable operation of these two.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), December 07, 2001.

I carried a 35S for many years, a Minox for a couple months. The Minox shutter/electronics conked out, it was more expensive to replace than the camera was worth. Both it and the Rollei are guess- focus cameras. Shoot up-close at f/2.8 and you'd better be a really good guesser. The 35S can't meter at eye level and the coverage angle is pretty wide, so slide exposures are tricky with long- distance scenics. Both Minox and Rollei require add-on flash, and the Rollei's shoe (except the ridiculously expensive Classic) is on the bottom of the camera so to avoid upwardly mobile shadows you have to turn the camera upside down to shoot flash. I have not regretted replacing the Rollei with the Minilux...but I still have the Rollei!

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

I don't think the Contax T3 has been given its due credit in the comments above. The focus is as fast as any P&S out there, and it has more features than the Hexar or Leica, such as 13 inch minimum focus, higher shutter speeds (up to 1/1250 at smaller apertures), and very importantly, no measurable vignetting at any f stop/shutter speed combo. There are user settings so you can customize the camera to your needs and it will remember them after the camera is turned off. The Contax T3 can be set to 2.8 in aperture priority, not just f4.0 and smaller. The camera is very quiet for a P&S. The meter is very accurate, and I must not have very big hands, because I do not not find the camera to be too small. It is solidly made out of Titanium (not just a coating like the Leica). The reformulated Sonnar on the T3 was tested out as the best lens ever seen in a P&S camera, and tops over 80LPMM resoltuion, is nearly flare proof, and has no measurable distortion. Color reproducxtion is superb as well. The lens is fantastic wide open, and lends itself to "Leica Summicron quality" low light images.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 07, 2001.

I use the Leica Z2X for my P and S most of the time. It supposed to give nice slide photographs. So far, no complaints at present. This P and S just replaced my Leica Mini :)

alfie

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

I'm happy to hear the T3 can be set to f/2.8 in AE. The T2 couldn't, and neither could the T3 I played with at the store, but maybe it was a very early production or something was wrong with it. I may take another look at a T3 if my Minilux goes belly-up. I bought it used for about 1/2 the new price, so it may have 1/2 the longevity also;>)

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

There are good reviews on the Hexar AF at photo.net:

http://www.photo.net/photo/hex ar

I can strongly recommend it, tho' it seems rather bulky compared even to the M6 now, to my eyes. Someone mentioned the AF was too quiet- it is quiet, but through the VF you can see it working. In 100s of photos, I've never had one incorrectly focused. It's a superb camera, and the shutter release is quite quick- I would assume the other high end P&S' focus before the shutter release is fully pressed.

Hexar is what led me to Leica.

BTW, does anyone know anything about the Rollei Prego 30? It seems like a nice, small metal body. I would like to know how the AF is, and image quality.

-- tse-sung wu (tsesung@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

My favourite compacts: Contax T2 and Minox 35ML

-- martin tai (cg081@torfree.net), December 08, 2001.

Tom, I would have unflinchingly recommended the Minilux for its fine lens, but after four years and about 100 films it has developed an EO2 error message which necessitates a costly new shutter. Apparently, this is not that uncommon, so I wonder about the longevity of P/Ss in general.

-- David Killick (Dalex@inet.net.nz), December 09, 2001.

Of the cameras listed above, I've played with the Minilux extensively first and almost bought it but the Contax T3 came along and made the decision for me. :-) (No experience with Hexar)

I'm holding the T3 here in my hand and can tell you that f2.8 in AE is possible. I've shot using all f-stops from 2.8 to 16. The optical performance of this new Zeiss Sonnar is wonderful... no fall-off, very flare-resistent and almost as sharp as my Contax G 45mm lens, also a Sonnar.

Other features I like: -Can set different Flash defaults -Lens can be set to pre-focus when the shutter release is lightly touched -Long Time (LT) exposure ranges up to 180 secs -Separate AF Lock button -Manual Focus and Exposure Comp can be set in various ways -Bright, clear and contrasty VF -Takes filters and lens hood -Can accomodate the TLA200 Flash with SA2 bracket

As for size, that's personal preference. Noise... not silent like Canon EOS and USM, but doesn't bother me at all. With ambient noise, your subject won't likely hear the camera's operation.

-- Niki (Cadenza_7o@yahoo.com), December 26, 2001.

Thanks guys, I've bought a T3 and the photos come out to be wonderful. No regrets and I will recommend it without reservation.

-- tom tong (tom.tong@ckh.com.hk), January 15, 2002.

I just bought a rollei prego 30. It is not as good as a stylus epic or a leica z2x (both of which I also own, and both of which I paid less for!). The pluses of the rollei are: small size, all aluminum, fast autofocus (if noisy), easy operation, good metering (center weighted for sure), good view finder, very attractive case and storage box, easy to use.

I haven't run high quality film through this, though I usually don't with p&s cameras, so I would say my comparisons are not mixing apples with oranges.

The prego 30 only takes 100-400 film, and has a slow top shutter speed, compared with stylus epic. However, it is so pocketable that I will be sure to take it on trips. And you can't beat that 30mm lens.

-- Steven Weiss (weiss1@fuse.net), June 12, 2002.