I was away when my young friend had her baby two years ago. She had her heart set on breastfeeding. When I returned, she had already given up and the baby was on the bottle. She was devastated and I hated that I hadn't been there to help her. She said she had no milk and the baby cried and cried.

She is going to have another baby and determined to nurse this time. Please give me some suggestions to help her. -how to help her see if she has milk or how to encourage milk let down - if that was the problem. Warm compresses? Is there much real chance that she didn't have milk?

-- homestead2 (homestead@localnetplus.com), December 07, 2001

Answers

Yes, there is a real chance that she didn't have milk. Same thing happened to me! I wanted so badly to nurse both of my girls, but was unable to, though not for lack of trying, and lots of help from La Leche(sp?) women! I finally had to give up and bottle feed both of my babies.

I hope your friend has better luck than I did!

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), December 08, 2001.

LaLeche League and their book The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding are a must. She also must find a breastfeeding friendly pediatrician, the hospitals actually sabatoge, perhaps unmeaningly buy letting the baby have formula bottles in the nursery etc, with orders written "breast only" this won't happen. I nursed all three of my kids, now very healthy young adults, nursing my middle daughter until I found out I was pregnant with my son, when she was 15 months old. Nursing with two C-sections and with the move to Texas, where I found breastfeeding to be very unpopular! If she does successfully nurse her next child she will be quite surprised at how much healthier and easy going this child will be. There really is a difference, course a difference you can destroy with smoking etc. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

I am a nursing student & a few weeks ago my clinical rotation consisted of following/helping the lactation specialist nurse. I don't have kids, so this was a real eye opener for me. The lactation nurse was wonderful at helping the moms & giving them confidence. This nurse informed me that it is only about 1 in 10 newborns who are born knowing how to latch/suckle correctly right off the bat. She explained that it is a learning experience for them & that women often are not aware of this & that is why they give up & bottle feed. She said it is actually pretty rare for a woman not to have enough milk for a newborn, but what happens is they give the baby a bottle with formula and all the sudden the baby eats alot at one setting, gets very full, and sleeps a long time. Thing is that the bottles are *easy* for the babies while breast feeding requires some work on their part. Bottles practically run/drip out on there own, breasts require sucking! Further, she explained that the big meals provided by bottles are really not that good for the baby and can be related to overweight and colicy babies. She also said that milk letdown can be delayed for a day or so after delivery, especially in 1st time moms, but a teaspoon of colostrum is so rich that it is considered enough for one feeding for a newborn. There were several moms complaining that they couldn't breast feed due to having no milk. We hooked them up to a quality breast pump & wouldn't ya know it...they ALL had milk! Just did not have the technique of feeding down & thought the baby was not getting enough. Please don't think I am a "know it all". I don't even have children yet so i have no room to talk, but I did get a real education that breast feeding requires time & energy. This nurse recommended the "football" hold for new moms. Apparently many women try to nurse the baby with it lying on their tummy and it does not work well. Also, the baby has to get a good latch to nurse correctly. Many women wanted to only place the nipple in the mouth, when the entire areola should be in the mouth. You might try a book, La Leche, or your county health agency for info on technique. Most have free programs for lacation education.

-- ellie (eagle-quest@juno.com), December 08, 2001.

IMO, the most important thing you can give her is reassurance! The time right after giving birth is so emotional. The least problems can seem huge. Explain to her that it's ok that she doesn't know how to do it right. We all had to learn. Tell her that even if it is really painful at first, it will quickly get better. (it's been a while, but I used a product called Masse' breast cream and it really helped with that part) Tell her we're all rooting for her!

-- Mona in OK (modoc@ipa.net), December 08, 2001.

For just some quick tips until you get a book or other referance, she should drink LOTS OF WATER, I drank over one gallon a day every day, some times lightly flavored with pure juice, She should start working her nipples into shape, I am very serious, chapped nipples are extremely painful,(I had swell up to the size of a dime) air dry and get some direct sunlight on them, this also helps heal them later, to get the baby to open it's mouth wide, touch the side of it's cheek or corner of the mouth with a nipple tip, when the mouth opens wide pull the babies head to the breast and get as much of the colored part of the nipple in there as possible, it will adjust out, to fit correctly but it will not suck up into the babies mouth if, not far enough in to start with. (to break the suction press into the nipple at the coner of the baby's mouth with your little finger) Massage the breast gently this helps the tubes etc. open up. It is common for there to be little or no milk for a day or two, so let the bay suck often, (use the breast as a pacifier the more sucking the sooner the milk) she should pinch the nipple as to milk it for a check and to wet the baby's lips, also as soon as she gets some droplets showing spread it over the nipple and let them dry, don't use soap on nipples (some times there is a darkish secretion that triggers the baby to suck), if needed hold the breast like a sandwhich to control the tip and keep the nose clear of the skin for easy breathing, it can take several days to get it going right, and she should consider breast feeding her full time career, it takes up over 8 hours of every day, it becomes the main focus of your life, she should not let worry over any thing else hinder her milk production. And after she gets her confidence up, she can bottle some so others can feed the baby too! (I had enough let down from the off side to fill an 8oz. bottle, almost every feeding time), and if she had a good scale to check the baby's weight it is a good thing to have, a GOOD bathroom scale will work by her holding the baby to weigh herself, and then just weighing herself, the difference is the baby's weight, the baby should show a gain every day.Oh, and eat lots of dark green vegetables, thats how cows etc. get their milk.

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), December 08, 2001.

Another way to deal with nipple soreness -- and mine were cracked, and oh man that hurt -- a nurse brought me hot tea bags. The tea bags had been placed in about as hot a water as I could stand, then placed over the nipple and covered with a hot towel. The relief from pain was almost instant, and then the next feeding didn't hurt so much. I've had babies that knew what to do from birth and others that took over a month to learn to latch properly.

Tell her to rest, rest, rest. Relaxation with the baby snuggled up to her will help her let down a lot.

-- helen (mother@to.many), December 08, 2001.

Yes, drinking plenty of fluids is a must. Also, remember that breast- fed babies nurse more frequently than bottle fed babies. My babies nursed every 1 to 2 hours. I was tired but it was worth it. Get plenty of rest and also be careful of the foods you eat. Spicy or gas producing foods don't agree with the baby.

-- Jean in No. WI (jat@ncis.net), December 08, 2001.

I LOVED nursing my sons! However, the pain of sore, cracked nipples is enough to put off any new mother. The advice I found in a book worked extremely well for me: After every feeding, I repeatedly expressed a couple of drops of milk to spread around the nipple, until it was well "lubed" and soothed. Breast milk is it's own best healer...and readily available!

As for not having milk, did your friend go through a period of having sore or painful, hard breasts? I've read and heard from friends that when the milk in the breast dries up, it's a very uncomfortable feeling, especially for those who bottle feed right from the start.

Make sure she gets help with the right technique before she leaves the hospital. There are LaLeche representatives everywhere these days, and when you call, someone WILL come to help out. Although breastfeeding is usually a natural thing that mother and child can figure out together, having the right technique from the start can circumvent some of the nipple soreness and cracking caused by improper latching on.

Good luck to your friend!

-- Sharon/WI (pinnow@inwave.com), December 08, 2001.

In addition to attending some Le Leche meetings before her baby is born, she should find out if there is a Certified Lactation Consultant in her area. Most hospitals have one on their staff now and some health departments/WIC offices do, too. And there are private consultants who are hired by the woman. I would suggest a meeting with the consultant before delivery to go over her past experience. Usually there are "How-to" breastfeeding classes that give all the basics and will show great videos of moms nursing and all the steps to doing it correctly. It also maybe possible for the consultant to arrive shortly after her delivery (especially if this is one that works in the hospital) to help her with that first nursing. The consultant will continue to check in at LEAST once a day or more if there are problems. And she should be on call to answer questions later on.

I guess all of this depends on the area your friend lives in. She should read everything she can about breastfeeding. Another good book is "The Nursing Mother's Companion" by Kathleen Huggins, RN, MS and Mothering Magazine has lots of good articles about the benefits of breastfeeding. This is a passion of mine and I am currently nursing my third baby. If you or your friend has further questions please feel free to e-mail me.

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), December 08, 2001.

ellie, you are right on girl. i nursed 4 of mine and loved it. drinking fennel tea greatly increases milk production. stay away from peas and milk, it gives the baby gas. cody

-- cody (urbusted@alltel.net), December 08, 2001.

Wonderful post Ellie! At one of my first LaLeche League meetings, San Diego 1977 :) The gals told me to grasp my nipples everytime I went to the bathroom, not until painful but using your bra to scuff them up. If you start this early in pregnancy than by the time you are going to the bathroom every 2 hours at 9 months you won't have any problems with sore or cracked nipples. It worked for me, no pain, no chapping, nothing. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

Wonderful responses and just what I had hoped for. It was years after I had nursed my three, that I learned all the things I could have done to have prevented so much pain.

This girl has a lot of heart and is very determined. I knew, if I could get some experienced input, she can do this.

thanks

-- homestead2 (homestead@localnetplus.com), December 08, 2001.

First, have your friend find either a lactation consultant (some hospitals have them) or a La Leche League person BEFORE the birth so they'll be on hand if she needs them. Make sure they're with her from the beginning so they can show her what a correct latch-on looks like, proper positioning, etc.

Second, tell her to drink lots of water and nurse on demand, at least in the beginning. Some babies will reject the nipple if they've been given pacifiers, so I would avoid these, at least until nursing is well established.

And finally, get rid of every trace of FORMULA from her life. The slightest squeak from the baby will convince her that she's not making enough milk, and once she starts supplementing she will FOR SURE not make enough. Don't let the hubby give the baby any bottles for at least a month, because that feeding that Mom missed will tell the breasts to make less milk, and they will.

-- gita (gita@directcon.net), December 08, 2001.

With my son he was so small when born [ 4 pounds when he left hopital] the doctor wanted him to gain weight so he was breast fed and bottle fed. What I did was breast fed him and then gave him the bottle after breast feeding him and that worked well. By breast feeding first when he was realy hungry he would nurse well and then he got topped off by the bottle.This might be a option for her, that way he atleast gets some breast milk to.another thing she could do is pump her breast milk then add it to his bottle with the formula.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), December 08, 2001.

First of all, she should just assume she has enough milk. She probably won't have anything but colostrum the first three days, possibly four. Sometimes babies do cry during that time, I know mine did. But they are built to be able to go that long with only colostrum. That one post is right, baby's are not born knowing how to nurse and neither are mothers. It takes time and patience. She doesn't need to weigh her baby, she can just make sure that she has at least 6-9 wet diapers a day and some poopy ones. Most breastfed babies poop like a tied coon as my sister likes to say. If it has that it, she can be sure it is getting enough. For the first couple of weeks it will feel like all she can do is nurse, because the babies at that age are slower at pulling the milk out. But wait a while because they get fast. Nurse on demand. Don't even think of scheduling, because the baby is regulating its milk supply. Stay away from pacifiers if she honestly thinks she didn't have enough milk. Some days are just frequency days where the baby nurses all the time. He is just growing and needs more milk. It works on the whole supply and demand idea. If she is fair skinned she will probably have sore nipples. (my doctor told me this) It will pass, but it hurts at the time. Oh and I agree completely with the above poster. NO FORMULA or BOTTLES in the house. Those companies mail that junk to you whether you want it or not and believe at 2:00 in the morning it gets tempting. Babies cry, they just do. But tell her not to worry about not having milk, that is rarely a problem. Time, stress, and sore nipples are what will get ya'. Good Luck to your friend. Breastfeeding is wonderful.

-- renabeth (renabeth@yahoo.com), December 08, 2001.

I'd tell her to get an electric breast pump. The savings from not having to buy formula will easily pay for the cost of the pump itself (about $100). I used one with my third child, and they work great. I used to joke that the pump can extract water from a rock in record time! Moms who cannot nurse find that the pump is the answer to the problem.

-- Liz Rhein (merhein@shentel.net), December 08, 2001.

I agree with the last post. Get her a pump (wonderful present from more than one person, and you can get one used on ebay) and tell her to empty her breasts completely after every feeding. I was breastfeeding every two hours with both my girls and had so much milk I had to freeze it and throw it out! My daughters were both "grazers" and nursed long periods but sometimes did not take much milk. The pump will greatly increase your milk production (use it a lot at first and then less and less), as well as drinking tons of water. A beer helps, too, when you get low on milk. P.S. Tell her to room in with her baby in the hospital and start nursing immediately.

-- carla s. miller (carlasmiller@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

and refer her to breasrfeeding.com's support boards here in virtual- land-a wonderful resource, to supplement, not replace, LaLeche League. (I worked outside the home and nursed my babies 30 years ago!)

-- Mitzi Giles (Egiles2@prodigy.net), December 08, 2001.

Hi, I don't get over here to the forum as much as I used to. Just stopped by to look at the archives for info on bareback pads for horses and saw your post. Have to add my two cents.

What a lot of great information for your friend. I do hope all goes well for her this time. I breast fed my little boy for two years and I get so enthusiastic about this subject you'd think I'd invented the idea!!

Tell her, of all the Christmas gifts this child will ever get, breast feeding is the greatest gift of all!... and besides, it's convenient, it's always warm and the cat can't get at it!!!

I'd had a C-section and I remember laying there on a morphine drip feeling completely spaced out and quite frankly I was so exhausted after 48 hours of labor that I wasn't even thinking much about the baby. Just remember the nurse saying "This little guy's ready to eat, I'm sure you don't feel up to it I'll just give him a bottle" Boy, I almost came flying out of that bed! "Oh no you won't"!!

Like someone else said feed as often as the baby wants it and even hold him close inbetween feedings if possible. DON'T listen to anyone who try's to tell you that the baby will get spoiled or should be going longer between feedings. Yes, it's like they're glued to you 24 hours a day, but it's worth every minute! Some days my little lad would want to eat about every 10 minutes.

Check out Motherwear.com. They have some beautiful clothes for breast feeding mom's. They have a nice catalog. All the models are actually feeding their babies and you would never know it. A bit expensive. I could only afford two T-shirt type tops. The best money I ever spent on clothes. I wore those things just about every day for 2 years! They washed and washed and always looked nice. Could feed him in public and no one even noticed! Makes a big difference when you feel confident that you're not putting on a show for everyone.

When Joshua was 2 months old I flew to England with him to visit Gran and Grandad. Just the two of us from Seattle to London (a 12 hour flight) and then changed planes to Manchester. It was SO easy. All the other babies screaming their lungs out and mothers asking flight attendants to heat bottles etc. That's when I realized just how great breast feeding is. Then as soon as I got back from England we took a month and drove across country and back! Wow! 18,000 miles in two months on nothing but breast milk!! Why anyone would consider all that messing around with bottles a convenience I'll never know.

Drink, drink, drink!! I found that I really had to drink a lot more than I was thirsty for, if you know what I mean.

We've been thinking about adopting a baby from overseas. I commented to my husband what a pain it would be having to make bottles. Then I came across something on the web about breast feeding adopted children. One lady had breast fed all 8 of her adopted children!! Has any one here heard anything like that before? I found it fascinating. Will definitely be giving it a try if we ever save up enough money to adopt. But that's another story.

All best wishes to your friend. Let us know how she does.

Pauline

-- Pauline (tworoosters_farm@altavista.com), December 09, 2001.

Pauline, yes, I have read about women breastfeeding their adopted children. I believe Le Leche may have a book just on the subject. Also, Mothering Magazine had an article on the subject within the last year. Check out their website at www.mothering.com. Maybe the have the article in their archives. Or you can get a backissue. I'll look for which one it was tomorrow. It sounds very rewarding but it takes a very strong dedication.

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), December 09, 2001.

Ditto to everything - but I'd like to add that the birth experience can affect nursing. My first was born in a hospital that didn't allow rooming in & also I had so-called pain killing drugs. Big mistake. The drugs take days to get out of both your body & baby's. The baby being in the nursury makes bonding more difficult.

My second stayed with me all the time & we had no drugs. Much better.

Birthing is a spiritual event & hospitals are not very spiritual places. Do whatever you can to keep interns & nurses from wandering in & out at will. Post a firm-minded friend at the door if necessary. Bring a tape player for peaceful music. All most hospitals provide is TV. If there isn't any oxygen equipment in the room, candles would be a nice touch. I hope your friend has a wonderful birth & nursing experience.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), December 11, 2001.