We have newborn Australian Shepherd puppies! Six of them and they are beautiful, born yesterday. Mom went into labor unnoticed and had them. I noticed only when I saw the sire with something in the yard that he appeared to be licking and gently moving around. He had a very large puppy still in the sac, and had not broken the sac. Does anyone know if he was trying to hurt or help it? Anyway, mother will not let him around pups anyway. This is her first litter but she seems to be a great mother. Also, why was this pup so large and did she just abandon it knowing something was wrong?

Now we have to dock tails. Is the best way just to wack them off with a knife? Then do you put peroxide or Iodine or something on the stumps? As you can see, I am a first time grand ma of these type of pups. Thanks

-- Shauna Rowan (shamelesscowgirl2001@yahoo.com), December 08, 2001

Answers

Why do you have to dock their tails? That, like cropping the ears, is just a barbaric and totally unnecessary practice, just because some rule book put out by a breed "society" says you must, why listen to them? Even if you are selling them for money as pure breds, still, why?

We have a lovely, sweet tempered pure bred Pit Bull female, we never had her docked or cropped, and she is still registered, but with her being spayed, she sure didn't need registered. The point is, she looks much better "au natural" than artificially endowed, dogs need tails to help with balance and just to wag!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 08, 2001.

The people I bought my Aussie from used bands that are used to dock lamb tails. They said there did not appear to be any discomfort. Who can say?

I don't know what your male dog was doing but my neighbor's dog used to find the litters of barn kittens when they were first born. One by one he would take them away from the nest and lay down somewhere and lick them. Then he would leave the kitten (for example, laying out in the middle of the driveway in the hot summer sun) and go get another kitty to lick - leaving it wherever. My frustrated neighbor would complain that the mother cat did this. I used to feed horses in his barn and saw the dog more than once trotting out of the barn with a kitten! I don't know if this is related behavior or not! I had a RR rooster tried to get a brood of baby chicks to set under him! He forsook his usual place on the roost and laid down in the straw clucking to the chicks. He was unsuccessful. Renee'

-- Renee at Briar Creek (fakeaddy@nomail.com), December 08, 2001.

there is nothing wrong with the male behvior. and a large pup is normal, just as a runt would be. why are you wanting to dock tails? please if you must, find a vet. you obviously dont know a thing about it and im scared for your pups just thinking about it.wacking their tails off with a knife???? GOOD GOD. i realize the benifits of being self sufficent, as we are ourselves but when you dont know how to do something as touchy as cutting a body part off an animal, use common sense. what will you do if infection sets in and you loose your litter?? ihope you do the right thing. good luck

-- cody (urbusted@alltel.net), December 08, 2001.

I agree with Annie. Docking the tail of a dog serves no purpose whatsoever. All because some fool years ago thought it looked better. Those registrar societies have done enough damage to dog breeds, don't play into it.

I think if you still decide to dock their tails, do it yourself with a pair of pruning shears. Maybe the reality of it will set in then.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), December 08, 2001.

are these dogs show dogs? if not I would not dock their tails,seen it done and its really gross. If you do it I believe it must be done w/in 48 hrs from birth or you need a vet. One more thing is there a "standard"for the tails: I know some breeds must have a white tip,mostly hunting dogs. Please skip the tail thing,remember it is part of the spine and an ifection will kill them quick. I hate to say this but you should have learned alittle more before breeding these dogs,if any are pre sold ask the new owners if the tails can stay.

-- renee o'neill (oneillsr@home.com), December 08, 2001.

I used to work for a vet. What he used to do was count the vertebe to the number desired (yes, every breed has a different length) then twist it off. The twisting seemed to close the wound too. Benodine Pups screamed though. If you should decide to do this, be aware of that.

I'm guessing the large pup died. It could have been the first to come out and probably gave her a hard time. The others probably followed fast and she just cleaned them as they came out, forgetting about the first.

Oh, by the way, if you do decide to dock and use a knife, you might want to stitch the wound closed. Probably one would be enough and keep it clean and creamed. Don't let mom get too envoloved with cleaning the stumps, it may irritate them.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 08, 2001.

If you are going to dock the tails, you should do it prior to day three. Make sure you dock the tail the correct length, most Aussies just have a small stump where the tail used to be. The stump will not be long at all. Also, you must make sure that you go between the joints of the tail, not through one. Make sure that you dip the stump in betadine 7%. Use very sharp kitchen shears and do the procedure quickly - do not hack and saw. One clip or you will have a very miserable puppy. And yes, they do holler when you clip off the tail, so if you do it yourself, don't hesitate to go ahead and finish the job. Nothing less pretty than a half docked tail cause the docker got squemish.

I used to dock tails of our poodles when I was in my teens, grew up in my twenties and raised English Pit Bulldogs and decided that the tail and ears were staying on. Not one of the people who bought one complained and I explained that if they absolutely had to have the tail removed and the ears clipped, then off the to vet they had to go. By the time the pups were eight weeks old, it was too late to do it at home - but most of the people who got puppies wanted pets and left them the way they got them. Now all dogs here keep whatever they were born with, tails, ears, dewclaws, etc.

Good luck - ps. it is never to late to take them in to the vet.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), December 08, 2001.

First, DO NOT just whack the tails off with a knife. WAY too inaccurate. You could cut through the bones instead of between them, and your puppies could wind up with little pieces of bone sticking out of the ends of their tails, not to speak of infections.

If you really need to do the tails, I HIGHLY recommend getting a vet to do it, at least the first time. I've helped to castrate bucklings, and have killed chickens and all that, but, especially with the technical aspects involved (to suture or not to suture, for example), I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing tails myself, even after having watched it being done. Vet's usually don't charge much to do the tails. If you ask to watch and they say no, find another vet. After you've watched once or twice, at least you'll have a clue.

I was pretty horrified when I had my poodle puppies' tails docked. The puppies scream alot.

-- Laura Rae Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), December 08, 2001.

I have a Australian Shepard / Border Collie mix. I thank God everyday that I am met by that furiously wagging, happy butt barometer that no one docked her tail when she was a puppy.

I can understand dehorning calves and goats for their own safety and that of their herdmates and handlers, but why did it ever become "fashion" to lob off something as wonderful and communicative as a dog's tail?

And screaming puppies? Oh God -- no thank you.

-- Renee Martin

-- Renee Martin (icehorse@altelco.net), December 10, 2001.

I docked our dobie puppies tails once. The puppies do scream and the mother is very upset. DON"T USE CHEAP PRUNING SHEARS!! They don't necessarily fit together tight enough and can leave the tail hanging by the skin. You must pull the skin on the tail backwards towards the body so there will be a little extra to cover the stump. Put ice on the part to be cut for a minute or so first. After cutting, pull the skin over the stump and hold it there a minute or so, pressing it together. Be sure to have one of those anti-bleeding sticks used when shaving, in case it bleeds. Keep the pups away from the mom for several hours afterwards. You don't want her licking the tails. It must be done in the first few days after birth. But I agree, it is traumatic to the puppies and to you too. Also, it is going to be pretty hard to get a good cut, because Aussies are supposed to have such short tails.

-- Lynne (Lynnie70@cybermesa.com), December 11, 2001.