Hi! Please bear with me, I'm very new to photography. I started when I bought my wife a Canon Rebel 2000. Then I started looking around for a smallish camera for myself with a 'solid feel'. I came across Leica on the internet. Can you really use rangefinder style cameras on low light situations? Could I use one indoors without a flash in the evening?

What do I need to about using a camera without a lightmeter? Is it easy to take good pictures without one? What exactly does a lightmeter do? Does is set the shutter speed and apeture automatically? What would be a good price to pay for an M3 or IIIf which takes good pictures (not interested in displaying or whatever).

Thanks in advance for entertaining these questions!

Adnan

-- Adnan Abbas (adnan1976@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001

Answers

Rangefinder cameras live and breath for low light situations. That is one of the things they are good at. With a fast lens you can easily shoot indoors at night without a flash.

The IIIf is a finicky little affair that isn't all that user friendly. A beginner should avoid them. Unless you buy an M6 (which has a built-in light meter), you will need to buy a handheld meter. You will have to transfer the settings from the meter to the camera manually. For a good user M3 (body only) expect to pay around $900 minimum, plus another $500 - $650 for a used f2.0 50mm current design lens.

Make sure you get your hands on one before you buy to make sure this is really the route you want to take. That's a lot of cash to lay down if you aren't absolutely sure this is the camera design for you.

-- Bob Kramer (bobkramer@coopercarry.com), December 18, 2001.

There us little difference between SLR and RF photography under low- light conditions. IMHO There is more difference between the use of different cameras.

-- Wilheomn (bmitch@home.com), December 18, 2001.

From my experience, mirror slap alone makes a good rangefinder better in low light than just about any SLR. YMMV, of course. With the high rangefinder magnification, lack of rangefinder flare, and the superior shutter brake, my personal favorite low light camera is an M3.

-- Bob Kramer (bobkramer@coopercarry.com), December 18, 2001.

Adrian:

I had a IIIF a long time ago. I still have an M3. Both work very well. If you have a lot of experience, they work well in low light situations. The III has a very difficult viewfinder. The M3 has the best viewfinder ever released in a rangefinder.

If you don't have a lot of experience and are just starting out; find a camera with a combination of active and passive AF for use in low light situations. You will get good shots and learn how to handle them. After that you can take the Leica challenge. In my experience, the Leica lenses are difference.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), December 18, 2001.

Adnan, your intentions are noble, and you've come to the correct conclusion--that a Leica is the right camera. :-) The learning curve for one, however, is a bit steep compared to other cameras that are available these days. If you're willing to really learn how the thing works (and that means learning EVERYTHING about photography, on an operating system level), get an M3, or perhaps an M6 would lighten the learning curve a bit. On the other hand, if you're really new to photography, then maybe you want to borrow the Rebel for a while before you start shelling out endless amounts of cash on Leica gear. :-)

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

As to the IIIf being user-unfriendly, I think the main reasons for saying this are just the complexity of setting two different shutter speed dials, and the the tiny viewfinder, and the need to switch back and forth between range- and viewfinder. The rangefinder itself is not so tough to use, IMHO.

On the plus side, it's a smallish camera with a solid feel, all right.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 18, 2001.

Since this is your first foray into rangefinder cameras, I would recommend getting an M6 or M6 TTL with a 50mm Summicron lens. The M3 is a much older camera and although I have two of them and use them regularly, I have to admit I am glad I started with a M6 TTL! Check out the book LEICA M PHOTOGRAPHY by Brian Bower. It will give you a good introduction to the system. The book is available at Borders bookstore (or Amazon.com). Using a Leica M camera is very different (and very difficult) compared to using a Canon EOS Rebel 2000. But once you have crossed the initial hurdles, you will be amazed at the quality of the images produced by Leica lenses!.....................

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), December 19, 2001.

Rangefinder cameras in good condition, and properly adjusted and maintained, are in most hands easier to focus in low light conditions. In the case of the IIIf, remember that they were made about 50 years ago. YMMV. The M3 has what is debatedly the best RF viewfinder ever made. Condition is still important for accurate low light focusing.

The part of the question about indoor use without a flash in the evening is more a function of the speed of the lens and speed of the film. You may be have enough light to focus easily, but not fast enough glass or film to avoid using flash.

You will certainly find enough information in this forum to decide if you want to buy into this system. Also try www.cameraquest.com for lots of information on rangefinder cameras.

-- Hil (hegomez@aol.com), December 19, 2001.

>What do I need to about using a camera without a lightmeter? Is it easy to take good pictures without one? What exactly does a lightmeter do? Does is set the shutter speed and apeture automatically?

IMHO, before spending loads of cash on a Leica it would be a really good idea to immerse yourself in photography in general regardless of brand. I would hate to see you get discouraged with your M3 and abandon Leica forever. I suggest you buy yourself a good cheap manual camera like the Nikon FM2 and learn all there is to know about exposure etc first. The above suggestion that you start with the M6 is better as long as you have ready cash.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), December 19, 2001.

Hi Adnan, I agree with Ray above. Try first. Leicas are superbly made, expensive, and last forever, if treated well - like a classic sportscar. They are lasting proof that you do not need ever more complex electronics to take good pictures. But they are not for everyone. Do you like programming computers, for example? If so, get a modern high-tech camera. If you don't mind fiddling with mechanical controls and learning the basics of phpotography, go for a classic Leica. By classic I mean any old or new rangefinder, or SLR except but not point-and-shoots or digital.

Rangefinders are much better in low light due to the lack of a moving mirror. The old screwmount cameras (III, IIIa, and so on) are fun but far more fiddly than the later Ms.

Rather than buying sight unseen off the Internet, I strongly recommend going to a friendly dealer and try several different cameras - even if this costs a bit more. It will be worth it. You will soon tell if it feels right for you and you like it. Having a camera you feel comfortable with makes a huge difference to your approach to photography.

-- David Killick (Dalex@inet.nz), December 19, 2001.

i think the best first time buy is still the pentax mx. cheap, reliable, well crafted and it sports all you need for learning how to control a camera. i would never recommend a leica m to a beginner.

if you start with photography, a slr with depth of field preview is the best way to understand the system. when you use a rangefinder, you should be familiar with apertures, DOF, focal length and all the other basics.

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), December 19, 2001.

Thanks for all the useful answers above. I've decided to get a nice Canon QL17 as my first range finder. I'm going to put it through its paces and learn all I can, and then decide if I want to continue down the rangefinder path.

Thanks!

-- Adnan Abbas (adnan1976@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.