I have just read in Black and White Photo,UK magazine,by photographer Keith Cardwell his non use of viewfinders!!!Says its no really reqd as M shooters see the world in an open way rather than tunnel vision of SLR.Funny comment was the Leica M6 was like a cuckoo in the nest.. It pushed all the other cameras out! Same experience for me.Mine was a M3.I think its a great idea but need 28 0r 35mm lens for easier "framing".I prefer viewfinders to slrs for this reason.I like being participant to complete voyeur.See his sit www.keithcardwell.com Well worth it! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

-- jason gold (leeu72@hotmail.com), December 24, 2001

Answers

Point a wideangle lens in the general direction of a subject and shoot and it will probably appear somewhere in the neg and perhaps even in focus. With a great deal of experience one can develop an insticnt for what a particular focal length will encompass so practice this often enough and your keeper rate will probably go up. If that sort of photography floats your creative boat, great. Paintings sell for thousands of dollars that someone made sloshing paint at a canvas while blindfolded. My personal bias is that a lot of people buy "art" that they are embarrassed to admit they don't "get".

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 24, 2001.

<< Paintings sell for thousands of dollars that someone made sloshing paint at a canvas while blindfolded. My personal bias is that a lot of people buy "art" that they are embarrassed to admit they don't "get". -- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 24, 2001. >>

One of the all-time classic 60 Minute segments is a piece on Modern Art done by Morley Safer. Among the things shown in that segment: - One moneyed couple had three urinals installed in their living room, to be used as vases. They paid tons for it. - Another "artist" sold cans of his own feces to rich patrons, and couldn't produce it fast enough. - Another "installation" costing $20,000 was just a 40 pound pile of wrapped candy in the corner of a gallery. Visitors were encouraged to eat the candy and contribute their own additions to the pile. I think it was called "living art." - At the Tate Gallery a decade ago there was a controversy about an artist being paid $24,000 for 24 red bricks laid in a rectangular pattern.

There's a saying: "If you're rich you're eccentric, if you're poor you're a lunatic."

A woman whose name I can't recall, but whose work consists of written text (mostly white italic capitals on a red background), said it best: "Money creates taste." There's no accounting for what will be popular.

There was a recent 60 Minutes segment on the "art" of Thomas Kincaid (sp?), and how wildly popular it is. Art critics have called it crap, and say there's no limit to bad taste.

This gets to the perennial question of, "What is art?" Should someone be the arbiter of what is art and what is just exposed film?

-- Sikaan (Sikaan4@aol.com), December 24, 2001.

Jason:

To each his own: His site would be;

Keith Cardwell

Just makes it easier.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), December 24, 2001.

Another "artist" sold cans of his own feces to rich patrons...

I'm in the wrong field... conceptual art, here I come!

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), December 24, 2001.

Many experienced M shooters do not need to use the viewfinder to get accurate framing. Heck some of them were even able to toss their camera in the air and right at the top, where it naturally pauses, the camera would be pointed in the right direction and the shutter would click. A great deal of practice yields a great deal of skill.

I do not do this myself nor do I feel the need to learn but they certainly did get the results. To each his own.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), December 24, 2001.

I don't think I'm game to try that technique John, especially since my Leicas are all out of Passport coverage and I'm not wild about re- defining the term "single-use camera" to include my M6. Anyway you'd need an M4 to do it--no selftimer on later models.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 24, 2001.

Cardwell:".....M shooters see the world in an open way rather than through the tunnel vision of an SLR." I knew there must be a reason I wasn't "seeing" in a different way than when I was using my plebian Nikon; I've made the mistake of using a Minolta CL! And, of course it's not a real "M". What a pile of effete rubbish is Cardwell's statement. What elitists snobs we become when we subscribe to that nonsense.

-- John Myers (mymacv@aol.com), December 24, 2001.

The strage thing is that people must actually begin to believe their crap is truly great after recieving lots of money for it.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 25, 2001.

i am so sick of people complaining about big cash being paid for so called useless and silly modern art. is it your money? did you try to understand the artist? did you ever try it yourself, but no one came and was interested?

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), December 26, 2001.

Oh yea, I'm 'special' and I understand the tortured genius of the true artist. Now can someone tell me where the line starts for buying 'the can of crap'?

-- Doug Ford (dford@san.rr.com), December 27, 2001.

Isn't the tortured genius persona a bit passé by now? I think it died with Francis Bacon. What we have now are very smart and talented young people with excellent promotional skills. Good for them. As to quality, time will sort it all out.

John, is that story about tossing the camera in the air really true? I heard Robert Frank did it once to impress someone, but even if he did, I think he just got lucky!

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), December 27, 2001.

I've used a Bogen monopod as a lift for my camera, and the self timer, to get some really neat overlook shots. One set was in the NASCAR pits at TMS duing a race. Really nice and nobody but the TV crews and me did that. Framing is a guesstimate, but it can work! Too bad I can't do that with mu Leica (no self timer).

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), December 27, 2001.

The flipside of the ignorant provincialism that parades Kinkade's crap as art is the pretentious urbanism that fills cans with artistic feces. Somewhere in the middle is real art, created by people with real souls.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), December 27, 2001.

Yeah, this technique works great on subways because of the fixed distances between the seats. Just set the focus, position yourself, and go, go, go...

Happy New Year,

-- John Chan (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), December 27, 2001.

Peter, if you can come up with a definition of art that makes even halfway sense to the majority of people on this forum (ignorant provincials included), then congrats. For me, art is what I see in galleries and coffee table books. Which is possibly why I would never class myself as an artist. But then I have no real soul. Proof?

My wife took a b+w snap of me recently and it came out as a blank frame. How embarassing! From now on it's colour slide all the way.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), December 27, 2001.

There's a guy here in NYC that takes garbage and seals them up in these little plastic boxes and sells them on the street for $10. Kind of like how people pick up sand or shells when they're in Florida... You can bring home a little something to remind you of NYC. By the way, if anyone wants some of my garbage, contact me...

-- Richard Le (rvle@yahoo.com), December 27, 2001.

Years ago, I asked an art (specializing in photography) professor friend "What is art?" She replied "Whatever the artist claims is art." That's when I stopped using the word art altogether.

As for me, I like making photoz.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), December 27, 2001.

Here's a picture that I took without looking through the view finder with a 35mm lens. Any other examples?

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=442115

-- Doug Ford (dford@san.rr.com), December 27, 2001.

I think it was Don McCullen who said that he always rolled over on his back even under fire to take an incident light metering, because since he was there he might as well get the exposure right. I feel the same about using the viewfinder. The camera has one, I'm there to get a good snap, so I just look through the viewfinder, focus set the exposure and take the picture. The only time I don't go through the whole rigmarole is when I'm in a crowded market or street where people will stop and stare if I take time over it, and there I do use zone focusing. But the percentage of keepers from that is miserably low. Here's a picture that I did take without looking through the viewfinder, with the camera resting on the ground, using the 24. One of the few that has ever worked for me.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), December 28, 2001.

Doug, your picture is little short of miraculous, given the way it was taken. And a very nice picture in any terms. Funny that we've both posted animal snaps on this thread.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), December 28, 2001.

Rob, this is a family forum! Keep your dirty pictures to yourself!

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), December 28, 2001.

Sean Yates: "Art is the guy who lives behind the bowling alley."

-- (bmitch@home.com), December 28, 2001.