how much do i have to expect to pay for a decent, usable dual range summicron including the eyes?

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), December 27, 2001

Answers

$450 to $550. Make sure to do the flashlight test as many of those lenses have haze in them. Be aware that sometimes the haze can not be cleaned--it can be a failure in the coatings that are becoming opague.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 27, 2001.

Here's a nice one on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1313093934

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 27, 2001.

Buy it from a reputable dealer like Jim Kuehl or Don Chatterton and you will get a fair deal and can be assured that the lens is exactly as advertised or better.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), December 27, 2001.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the flashlight test?

-- Rob Tourtelot (rob@pumpaudio.com), December 27, 2001.

The "flashlight test" is a easy and quick way to see if a lens has cleaning marks,fog,or fungus that otherwise appears clear when looking through the lens under normal light. You take a bright flashlight and look through the lens with the flashlight shining from behind. You tilt the lens slowly back and fourth looking for cleaning marks on the front or rear surface which will look like very fine hairline scratches. These typically happen to older lenses where the coatings were soft. Haze looks like a fine coating of dust on one or more of the inner surfaces.

-- Gerry Widen (gwiden@alliancepartners.org), December 27, 2001.

Stefan: I recently checked out a beautiful dual range Summicron 50. The asking price was $525.00. I am sure with a little "bargaining" the price could be reduced a bit.From what I understand, this price is about right. I thought the lens a bit heavy on my M6 so I decided against the purchase. Besides, I have a collapsible 50 Summicron and a 1970's vintage Summicron 50.Do I really need a third 50mm lens? I think not.Good luck in your search.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), December 27, 2001.

I looked at that 50/2.0 DR provided on the link to eBay (advertised by Heliar). The lens SN 227xxxx is a late model, but NOT the last lens or even close. Lenses with SN 235xxxx or 236xxxx were made for sale with the M2-R (chrome M2 w/ ST plus M4 baseplate and rapid loading system). These lenses date to 1969 and are truly from the last batch of 50/2.0 DR lenses (I know; I have one with SN 235xxxx).

The 50/2-DR is a great lens. It has the same (identical) optical formula as the contemporary rigid 50/2 Summicron 7-element lens, but attachment of the "eyes" allows you to fous from 1 m (3'4") to about 19" (close to 0.5 m). One can argue (and people do!) about the relative merits of the different optical versions of the 50/2 Summicron lenses, but as far as craftsmanship, elegance, and mechanical solidity, there is no doubt that the DR is far better than any of the later products.

As others have posted, the earlier lenses have soft coatings and are prone to accumulate hairline "scratches" (coating marks). Lenses of this vintage also tend to fog and occasionally manifest fungus. DR lenses with perfect glass are not that easy to come by, unless they have had a recent professional cleaning. I think you need to be careful about the condition of the glass.

Lenses in the $ 450-$550 range will often have some imperfections in the glass, which may not (or may) affect the performance. A truly optically perfect DR lens may cost you in the $ 600+ range, especially if the cosmetics are also nice. I have also seen new in the original box DR lenses occasional offered, that sell for $ 900+. My recommendation as far as this lens is to get a later one (DRs were made from 1956-1969), as these have a better harder. Also, Don Chatterton and Jim Keuhl are good choices, since they will describe their products very accurately and give you a good price.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), December 27, 2001.

in the UK, expect to pay around £400+ for a nice one with specs. i managed to pick up a really clean, unscratched one (without the specs) for £260 (or US$365 approx). i couldn't use it on my M6TTL anyway. The 2mm height on the body means the eyes cannot be attached. but i tried it out on a roll of Kodak T400CN on it to test it, and the results were great for a lens thats almost 40 years! I was lucky to find one in such good condition for that price, and I saw several with lots of scratches and fogging. Hunt around. I have read it is THE lens for which other 50's are judged, with exceptional resolution as tested by American Photography mag. And yes, I can vouch that this lens version of the 50's is built to a high standard. Pity they don't build lenses these days like they used too..

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), December 29, 2001.

A few years ago I picked up a superb DR summicron in a flea market for around $450 Australian (around $225 US)It was in top notch condition both cosmetically and optically. Some time later I then found the eyes in a camera store for $30 Australian. ($15 US) Not bad all in all. I have been researching the lens and recently saw an article (might have been Irwin Putts, or possibly on the LHSA web site - I can't recall offhand but can go hunting for the article if anyone is interested in knowing more) in which it was indicated that there were reports to the effect that although the DR has the same optical formula as other summicrons of the period, the components were specially selected ( to be not only within manufacturing tolerance but the best of those) and assembled. If any one knows anything about that it would be of interest. In any event it gives great results.

-- Peter (peterm1@ozemail.com.au), January 07, 2002.

Peter,
Michael Johnston "confirms" the theory in this LUG post:
http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/v13/msg00370.html

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), January 07, 2002.