I asked this question about a year ago (how time flies!): should I exchange my DS M3 for an M6? At the time, the majority of opinion was overwhelmingly in favour of keeping the M3, and despite some persuasive argument in favour of the M6, that is what I did. The M3 is indeed a beautiful camera which has yielded some fine results, but the necessity for a separate meter does make it more time-consuming. I also have a IIIa which preserves that historical flavour. I now see some very reasonably priced M6s - going for not a great deal more than the M3! Some M6 TTLs seem to cost less than “classic” M6s. Why? And which model for an eyeglass-wearer favouring 50s and 35s would be better? 58, 72, 85? (I must admit, the M3 finder is a masterpiece.) Is chrome more classic? Although the DS M3 is going fine, would an M6 be more reliable? As always, all comments gratefully received.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), December 31, 2001

Answers

David,

If you can find a "user" M4 that would be a great alternative to the M6. One thing that I must note about the M6 is that Leica got "lazy" with some of the details that matter. For instance, the film guide rails. On the M4 they are beveled to ensure that the film doesn't catch on the rails when you load it. On the M6 (at least the TTL) Leica decided NOT to bevel the guides and film loading suffers. I want to get my guides CNC machined so that film loads more positive.

A well brassed M4 shouldn't be collector priced and you are getting what is arguably the pinnacle of Leica's golden age of rangefinders. As for the convenience of a built in meter... would you really miss it that much? I usually take 1 incident meter reading and keep the camera set to that for most of the daylight hours (10:00 - 3:00) for outdoor shooting.

Besides, incident metering is much more reliable than reflected.

-- John Chan (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), December 31, 2001.

David: I have both M3's and an M6 "classic". The TTL version has the shutter speed dial rotating in the oposite direction of the prior models to match the LED's for exposure. If you are not using any other models of the M, this should not be a concern. I have read other threads on this BB which allude to the flash not firing when the battery in the body is dead. I am not sure about this fact. The TTL is a little taller, and the viewfinders in the M6, "classic" and TTL have lot of flare in the viewfinders which does not appear in the M3's. The M3's are much easier to focus in low light than the M6 IMHO. I use the M3 as much as the M6 and enjoy the built in meter of the M6. Why not keep them both and decide later (finances permitting). Each person can tell you what their favorite is, but only you can decide for yourself. Good luck and enjoy.

Happy New Year :)

-- M. A. Johnson (logic@gci.net), December 31, 2001.

"Besides, incident metering is much more reliable than reflected. "

Depends who's doing it.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), December 31, 2001.

David, I am sure the general consensus will be DO NOT sell the M3 in order to finance the M6. If you feel you really want an M6 find another way to afford it, selling a loved Leica to fulfil an unsure purchase is a recipe for much future sadness (as Confucious once said....maybe!).

There are many arguments in favour of both cameras but many will agree they "don't build 'em like they used to" and if that is important to you, you may be disapointed with the latest Leica TTL. Plastics, stamped metal parts and less refined finish together with more electronics and unnecessary "improvements" seems to be a necessary evil of modern M manufacture.

The "classic" M6 (especially the "Wetzler" - spiritual home of Leica) models are indeed destined to be future collectables and prices are rising.

Consider an M6 ("classic" - please) but do not sell the M3, it's like will never be seen again.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), December 31, 2001.

If you have had the itch for more than a year -I think you may as well go for it and stop torturing yourself. Most Leica photographers appear to be "closet collectors" and seem to say "don't sell" by default -and rest assured that they will also say so a year from now. I think it is a waste to have rarely used equipment sitting in the closet, I'd rather have it circulating -but you may feel different.

Re. viewfinder mag.: If you find the 50mm frame easy to see in the M3, I think a .72 finder will give you enough eye relief to see the 35mm frame.

-Happy New Year (to everyone)

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), December 31, 2001.

Hi, David: I think you deserve to be congratulated by being really cautious about your Leica issue. And I'm sure it will work in your favor in the long run.

I don't really have any significant comment to add to our friends' above except to present you with a different alternative: since hand metering and viewfinder metering will render the same results (meters calibration permit)if you miss light metering in your viewfinder I tend to assume that what you really miss is the possibility of working faster.

If that were the case, I'd kindly suggest you to get a SLR camera with light metering and DOF preview capabilities. It will free you from the need of thinking about what you see in your viewfinder to apprise the way it will look on paper and will allow you to focus and adjust your exposure/depth of field parameters while still seeing your subject in the viewfinder. All this will certainly make your work faster. In that case I'd suggest a Nikon FM2n. I own one and have only good things to say about it though I seldom use it nowadays.

But then again many of us will tell you that, if speed is the purpose, odds are that you could go faster with your present M3 that with most SLRs (autofocus included, with Program set up being a possible exception) provided you take your time to learn and practice long enough to develop the necessary abilities: apprise light and/or light changes by the eye, pre focus by approaching final focusing ring position from infinity end while taking your camera to eye level, making good use of depth of field properties, and some other practical helps Lutz has contributed to the Leica photo community.

And you still have to consider that RFs allow you to keep your subject visible while shooting, which is not a minor issue when hitting a critical moment in time, i.e many times . . .

Please, David, take into account that I'm doing nothing else than repeating what I've previously read in this same site written by people who know much far more than me about photography and whose advises have greatly helped me to learn how to make better use of my own M3s and, most importantly, to enjoy my photography still more than I used to in my SLR-only days.

Please, excuse the length, David, and finally though not least: Best wishes for the approaching New Year along with your loved people.

-Iván

-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), December 31, 2001.

David,

I wear eyeglasses, use a 35mm lens 100% of the time, and I have the 0.72. I am extremely satisfied. Don't get the 0.58 unless you use the 28mm. The 0.72 is easier to focus since the focusing rectangle is larger than the one in the 0.58. I tried the 0.58 but there is too much room outside the 35mm frame lines, which is a waste of finder space.

Sikaan

-- Sikaan (Sikaan4@aol.com), December 31, 2001.

The only problem with selling a good M3 for an M6 is that it isn't easy to find a really great M3 if you decide later you liked it better. The main benefits of the M6 are the meter, hot shoe, and nice lines for 35mm (at least the .72 version), faster rewind. Drawbacks are it doesn't have as nice of a feel as the M3, and doesn't have that wonderful magnification to the finder. I personally don't like the doubling up of lines in the finder, and the finder flare seemed much worse than on my M3. You have to decide what your priorities are.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 31, 2001.

David:

Keep the M3 and buy a M6 TTL. I have two M3s and one M6 TTL, and use all 3 M cameras regularly. I wear glasses and use a 35mm Summicron ASPH lens most of the time with the M6 TTL. I cannot see the 35mm framelines with glasses on. Sometimes I guess where the framelines are. Most of the time I take off my glasses before taking the picture. It is a hassle. It would be nice to have the M6 TTL 0.58! But my budget for M cameras has been used up for the next few years! :-)

I do like the very accurate metering of the M6 TTL and the fact that I can use TTL flash with the SF20 mounted on it. Doing the same type of photography with a M3 is more cumbersome and time consuming. But the M3s are so nicely built that I cannot bring myself to sell them.

My M3 DS was built in 1955 while my M3 SS dates from 1961. They are both classics. So keep your M3 and save up for a M6 TTL!.............................................

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), December 31, 2001.

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There is a way to solve this problem! I had both of my M3s CLA'd by Leica USA this year. They repaired or replaced anything that was broken. Now both cameras look like new! And should give me many more decades of service............................................

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), December 31, 2001.

David: The disadvantage of the M6, apart from those already noted, is that it tends to make you more conspicuous, as you hold the camera up to your eye and fiddle with exposure. When I've used an M6, I've found the temptation to do that hard to resist! With the M3 you are forced to determine exposure in advance (and many users practice scale focusing as well) so the camera is only up for an instant. You get many second and third shots before your subject becomes self-conscious and begins putting on that "I am being photographed" face. If the rumor about a spring 2002 introduction of an AE M6 are true, that disadvantage will soon disappear, so I suggest waiting just a little bit longer..

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), December 31, 2001.

My first M was an M3 and I disliked it. The spool loading, the viewfinder that required goggles or auxiliary viewfinder to be useful with 35mm lenses, and the small rewind knob all combined to make it less useful for me.

I later have had M4-P and M6TTL (.72x mag) bodies. I find the M6TTL to be my favorite. It solves all the issues I had with the M3 and only introduces one new one, the often mentioned rangefinder flare. I've reduced that with a little "flare shield" in the illuminator window (amazing to me that Leica has not yet found a solution when it's so easy to manage).

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), December 31, 2001.

It all depends on what you can adjust to. Now for me the M6 is a very poorly designed body. The biggest problem is the cluttered finder. I can see the M7; it will have finders for 7 lenses displayed at all times. The M3 was good; everything else has gotten worse.

Now if you are talking about ease of use, the M6 would be the choice. Depends on what you can adjust to; as I said before. Of course an F100 would solve all of those problems. ;o)))

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), December 31, 2001.

Keep the M3 if it's in good shape. It's better for the longer lenses. Save your money and get an M6 classic. You really need two. I'm looking for a nice M2 or M3 to supplement my M6 classic, which I will never sell.

-- Ronald B (theblach@swbell.net), December 31, 2001.

Hi Davis, The consensus seems to be DON'T SELL M3. I agree. You do need both. Save up for an M6. It's worth the wait. Happy New Year, It's got to be better than "01.

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), December 31, 2001.

Sorry David, typo, not Davis.

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), December 31, 2001.

I have used black taped M2 & M3 since 1972. Last year I bought a classic M6 .72 along with several upgrade newer M lenses. It sat in the drawer for approx. 8 months. One day I took it out, attached the strap and it has been my main camera ever since. I like it a lot along with my new to me #11819 50 summicron, and Ken Shipman's soon to be mine 35 summilux aspheric and 21, 28, 90. I haven't sold the M2 or M3 and probably won't but they are definitely backup for the M6 now. I shoot mostly Velvia in the M6 and hardly ever miss an exposure. I really like what I'm getting from it. Good luck.

-- Don (wgpinc@yahoo.com), December 31, 2001.

David, Of course you could save up for a couple of years and buy the ultimate M3 with a meter--the M6J. As a user, there is no finer piece, and you would send shock waves through the "Leica Spotter" collectors; and also some nice Leica people who would eventualy "spot" you and then stop you for polite leica talk. There is no better way to make new friends with the same intrests.

I know, I go there all the time.

Sincerely

Hayden

-- Hayden Eiswirth (hayden_lovesleica@cs.com), January 01, 2002.

David, I have an M2 I've been shooting with for 40 years. I added an M6 3 years ago, and and M3 last month. They all have their uses. You favor 35 and 50mm now (M6 with .72 finder for those); but you never know when the 90 & 135 will become important to you. It would be better not to have to buy an M3 all over again! I say, Keep the M3 and add an M6.

Regards,

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), January 01, 2002.

Thanks Leicaphiles for your collective wisdom, which seems definitely to be keep the M3 and get an M6 too! I am lucky that my M3 seems to be in good condition, especially the rangefinder and viewfinder. There are occasions when speed of metering might help, but not always.

I hadn't heard about the non-bevelled film rails on the M6 TTL. Is this just cost cutting? I have seen a nice M6 classic Wetzlar model for sale. How does this compare with later M6s? A near-new TTL is about the same price.

Thanks again, and I hope everyone had happy New Year celebrations and didn't get too hung over. May 2002 bring peace and happiness to you all!

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), January 01, 2002.