I am about to take the plunge and step up to Leica M system.

Here in Singapore I can get a new M6TTL for about US$1870.

I would like to ask what would be the highest reasonable price to pay for a used 'mint' one in your opinion?

And should I get the M6 or M6TTL?

I would not use the TTL flash and don't really want additional electronics in the body. But I like the additional LED and the larger shutterspeed dial. I would like to hear from someone who has both, is the LED a big deal and does the bigger wheel make a difference?

I planned to get a 35 Summicron first (new is USD 1200 here). What should I pay for a used ASPH or latest non-ASPH to stay happy?

I appreciate your comments very much.

Thanks, Ilkka

-- Ilkka Kuusisto (ilkka.kuusisto@poyry.com.sg), January 09, 2002

Answers

There are pros and cons to both cameras.

M6 Classic pros:

-slimmer profile -battery only powers meter so lasts longer

M6 Classic cons:

-small shutter speed dial (not a problem if you're use to earlier Ms) -no TTL -less sensitive meter

M6 TTL pros:

-larger shutter speed dial -TTL circuit -more sensitive meter with 3 indicators (better for judging right range)

M6 TTL cons:

-slightly taller than M6 -battery powers meter AND TTL circuit so depending on how many flash shots you do you'll get less mileage out of the battery

Good luck.

-- John (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), January 09, 2002.

One more thing Ilkka,

If you want to get absolute rock bottom prices then buy your equipment from Hong Kong.

With careful shopping you can get a NEW 35 mm ASPH Lux for ~1500 USD so I think the 35 mm ASPH Cron should come in around 1000 USD. Check www.ebay.com for the Leica listings. There is a seller out of Hong Kong who consistently undercuts his competitors.

Otherwise, a used but near mint (ex++) 4th gen 35 mm Cron should run you about $800 USD.

Don Chatterton at www.donchatterton.com has MINT bodies (M6 TTL) going for around 1150 USD.

Regards,

-- John Chan (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), January 09, 2002.

Hi Ilkka, I have an M4P and just bought a few months ago an M6TTL. One of the main reason I bought the M6TTL was for the LED light meter that I didn't have on the M4P. The LED is easy to see and works great. I didn't have any problem with the speed dial turning the other way and can say I much prefer it's size making the speed change almost as on the M2 or M5 wich is easier while looking thru the viewfinder at the same time. The M6TTL bigger size is not really noticeable. I would not consider this an issue. The TTL flash wasn't important for me but since I bought the camera, I also added the tiny SF20 flash just to try it. It was usefull during the Christmas Holidays when shooting inside! It also is a gem to use and it is so compact. The first lens I would buy for an M Leica is a 35mm. The pre-ASPH Summicron is an excellent choice. I have one and will always keep it. It makes great pictures and this lens is very small.

Best Regards,

Jacques Leonard

-- Jacques Leonard (j.leonarddesigner@videotron.ca), January 09, 2002.

Ikka, I am interested in the answers here as I have been thinking along the same lines - though I already have an M3. I can't say which M6 would be best, but I really do recommend choosing a good dealer rather than going for the cheapest price. There are several Leica dealers in Singapore. I did spot one interesting dealer on Orchard Road, about 3/4 the way along going north on the left hand side on the third floor of a big shopping complex (not very specific, but you'll know it when you see it). He has an enormous collection of M cameras just sitting there looking pretty. I always thought what a shame they were not being used. Good luck, I am sure you will thoroughly enjoy whichever M6 you buy.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), January 10, 2002.

Ilkka,

Go the ebay route; buying from one of the several dealers on the site. They probably take returns. AFA models: the classic is cheaper because they're older (mines from 1984, Wetzler, Leitz red dot, no strap rub guards, within the first 1000 made). I DON'T use flash; Leica's are about available darkness and stealth candid photography. Flash is in-your-face photography.

Now, I think, the most important issue is what eyepiece magnification. If you tend toward wide angle, then classic (or TTL) 0.72 would be good. The 50 frame in a 0.58, I would think, would be too small. I love seeing outside the frame for candids (I point in one direction, but can see the subject, meter, focus on an object at a similar distance. Then, "at the decisive moment", I swing to the subject and shoot). The 50 lines are perfect for that in a 0.72.

I've seen "buy it now" prices as low as:

$1199 for current 35 1:1.4 around $1000 for classic M6

As far as the shutter speed dial: I have no problem turning it w/one finger (index).

As far a the LED: I don't need it. In the classic, when both are equally bright the METER thinks the exposure would be perfect. When one is half as bright you get 1/2 stop over/under exposure. The meter seems to indicate in a stepless way as you make adjustments; I like that. Does the TTL work the same with respet to the arrows?

And no, I am NOT Alfie's cousin.

-- Chris Chen (chrischen@msn.com), January 10, 2002.

I think you'll get used to whatever you buy after a while. I have the classic M6's and find them easy to use and very precise for exposing slides. The small shutter dial is a pain, but you get used to that also. I had washers machined to sit beneath the shutter dial and raise it by about 3 mm, this solves any problems I had with it (mainly setting it with cold fingers). If you don't want the TTL aspect, then I think the M6 classic is a perfectly adequate tool for any conceivable purpose (within the limitations of the M system of course).

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), January 10, 2002.

sorry,

$1199 for the 35 1:1.4 ASPH. Temptation, temptation. Too bad it's too big, for me.

-- Chris Chen (chrischen@msn.com), January 10, 2002.

The cost of a nice, clean M6 classic *if* you need to have it serviced soon, is awfully close to a new-with-warranty M6TTL. So my advice is to either look for a very late serial# classic, or one which has been recently serviced by Leica or a factory-trained technician, or else get a new TTL.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 10, 2002.

A good used M6TTL will run you about $1300 (give or take) on eBay. A good used M6 will run about $1100 (again, give or take). As Jay points out, if the M6 is old (used) enough to need a CLA (about $300) then you're money ahead with the M6TTL. However, if the TTL needs a CLA you'd have been ahead of the game with a new one.

FWIW, I have bought 3 used M6TTL bodies - all EXC or better - and not had any problems. Yet. In fact the only piece of Leica gear I have had any problems with is my 3E, which is the only piece I have bought new! Hmmm, makes one pause...

:) Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), January 10, 2002.

Hello,

I bought a classic M6 some months ago from a very good and friendly dealer here in Hamburg, Germany (www.leicabeimeister.com) and he recommended the classic M6 (price issue). I don't think that the so called TTL advantage justifies the price difference, since the classic also has TTL, it also measures lighting through the lens. The only difference imho is usage of flash. Fo New Year's eve I bought a cheap Metz flash (about 125 USD$) together with a long syncro cable and NEVER flashed into people's face directly. I used the ceiling as a reflector. And the pictures are great. No red eyes, no deep shadows on the faces. I would invest the money in lenses, not in Leica fetishes.

Regards,

Alex

-- Alexander Buehler (alexanderbuehler@gmx.de), January 11, 2002.

Thank you all for your comments and advice. They helped me in my thinking process and I decided to go for a new M6TTL and a new 2/35ASPH to begin with.

Best regards, Ilkka

-- Ilkka Kuusisto (ilkka.kuusisto@poyry.com.sg), January 14, 2002.

Ilkka,

You can likely get a Leica M6TTL camera from Hong Kong for less. New Sankyo Camera, Hing Lee Camera, Cameron Camera are all good bets as is Kinefoto.

In Singapore, I've found Cathay Photo in Marina Square to have great service. Ask for Sam Jeva . Feel free to mention my name.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), January 14, 2002.