I have long sought a Noctilux and think that the time is near. However, I would like some input as to what the Noctilux will do for me, how will it help? I shoot now with a 2.0 50, 2.0 90apo and 2.0 28asph. I love my 2.0 28 for interiors, for the coverage, but think that I could use more speed. I do not shoot enough to load 400 film before indoor shooting, and I do not have many problems shooting 100 speed as my all around-er. btw(my Nikon system defaults to a 1.4 50 inside, but it is not as sharp or true as I would like) My indoor shooting is almost exclusively in restaurants, patisseries or something else related to food and eating! My subject is normally my wife or the staff, but most often just the location itself. If now I am shooting the 28 wide open a 2.0 and usually pleased, what are the more typical situations for the Noctilux. Finally, I always buy my gear new, is there any advice between a new Canada and a new Germany. (That is if the German made is available. I do not care about collectors or investing in gear for resale.)

-- RedCave (redcave@schweiz.com), January 10, 2002

Answers

Well, I think that general views of interiors at f1.0 may disappoint, as the depth of field will be so small (and the high vignetting). For portraits it should work very nicely though and for interesting details with out of focus effects (wine glasses, cutlery, table cloths etc.) For basic interior views though in low light conditions I think you will be better off with the Summicron 28 at f2 (or 35 'lux at f1.4) - you can also handhold a 28mm at slower speeds than a 50mm and they have better performance at the edges at their full apertures.

As to the Canadian vs. German issue. There is no difference, but you might get a higher value for the German version if you attempt to sell it. I am one of those people who is a little sceptical about the real value of a Noctilux...

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), January 10, 2002.

RedCave says, "My indoor shooting is almost exclusively in restaurants, patisseries or something else related to food and eating!"

I saw this shot on the LUG from one of the contributors that participate in the picture of the week (PAW) postings. 28mm Summicron at f/2.0 You might look at it and ask yourself, would it be stronger with less depth of field, a less recognizable environment and possibly less sharpness of the main subject? I don't think it would be improved by any of those things. Your desire to shoot people inside of eateries, would no doubt be contingent on that fact being apparent. The 28mm lens seems to offer the best of everything in this shot, selective focus with the ability to know where the subject is, low light ability, and some pretty good sharpness.

I would personally live for a bit longer with what you have in your bag now. The shot above is making me have some thoughts on the 28mm lens that I previously never had. Using the common logic regarding handhold-ability, the 28mm lens at f/2.0 is about the same as a 50mm lens at f/1.4, but look at that shot. The effect is totally different... you know exactly where that person is, and according to the narrative in your question, that is important to you.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), January 10, 2002.

However, I would like some input as to what the Noctilux will do for me, how will it help?

After use for a while, you will notice that you now walk with a pronounced stoop. :<)

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), January 10, 2002.

Al makes a good point... I just recently sold my second Noctilux and used (some of) that money to buy a 28 asph. In my case I also had a 50 'Lux to fall back on. In your case, you might be better served with a 35 asph 'Lux -- a wider view than you 50 but a bit tighter than your 28, and 1 full stop faster than either. Just a thought.

:) Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), January 10, 2002.

Jack, do you mean you owned 2 Noctiluxes at once, or you sold one and then bought one again and then sold it again? Either way, now I can prove to my wife that someone else rocketed to earth as an infant from the same distant planet as me ;>)

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 10, 2002.

The Noctilux gets the picture when no other lens can.

It's big. It's heavy. It's not portable. On an optical bench, the Summilux and Summicron are a tad better at f/5.6 (so what!). You loose the lower right corner of your viewfinder when using it.

Never mind. A friend of mine, surveying a series of photos I had done for him, said "It's as if the lens makes it's own light!"

The Noctilux is a special lens. It's size and weight make the camera more steady as you hold it. It balances very nicely with my M3, and with ISO 1600 film, you literally can get a decent shot in candelight. No one will believe that you're taking a picture, if they see you at all.

-- Tom Bryant (boffin@gis.net), January 10, 2002.

Jay:

Prove away to thine wife!

I owned one, used it for a bit and sold it. I then bought another one thinking I hadn't really given the first one ample time on the camera. I rapidly discovered that I had indeed given the first one more than ample trial-time, and ended up selling it just a few months after procuring it.

As long as we're sharing ala AA's 12 step program, now might be a good opportunity for me to admit that I own three 90's. I've got the 90TE, the 90APO Summicron, and the 90 pre-APO BK (Bokeh King) Summicron. I am having a bear of a time deciding which one I want to get rid of. My TE is definately a keeper, so I've got to move either the APO or the BK. Any help and/or guidance from the group would be very much appreciated!

And BTW, whoever said Leica gear can become an obsession was absolutely correct! But hey, at least I use it!!!

;-) Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), January 10, 2002.

Red,

As you already have 2 50mm lenses there is no need to explain the pros and cons of this focal length. The Noctilux's advantage is of course speed and a distinct freedom from flare.

You mentioned you were not satisfied with the sharpness or "true as I would like" regards your Nikkor50F1.4. Unfortunately the Noctilux image is not particularly sharp. Certainly you will notice a distinct drop of image sharpness when compared to your other Leica glass. On the other hand you cannot really discribe the image as soft either. It's hard to explain.

The images are contrasty with a very 3D appearance, but as the DOF is so shallow you will notice a very unique narrow focus point of view. Everything outside of a few cm's of your point of focus begins to blur. It is not very good at rendering environments to the eye at a glance. Colour saturation is marked with this lens. This provides an almost surreal, dreamlike quality to the images.

Your ability to capture lowlight images is indeed enhanced with this lens. Both as it is a true F1 lens and equally because of the weight of the lens increased stability is noticed in the handholdablity.

I tend to use my Noctilux for portraiture in indoor available light settings. If there is enough light for you to focus, you can shoot with a Noctilux. The most difficult skill is actually to get the focuspoint where you want it. Not always easy.

The Canada vs German question is not an issue if you intend to buy new. It's not really and issue even if you buy preloved, other than from a collectors point of view.

Simon

-- Simon Wong (drsimonwong@hotmail.com), January 11, 2002.

"The Noctilux gets the picture when no other lens can."

True, but you have to have it with you when actually needed it. This is my problem with the Noctilux. Unless I am planning on taking that type of picture I do not take it anywhere when two other lenses take up the same space.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), January 11, 2002.

Has anyone ever actually seen a German Noctilux? I have seen more than a few, all Canadian made, as is mine. If I could have one lens, this would be it. The only piece of exotic glass you can use anywhere, anytime. Despite all the detractors, I have nothing but praise for this lens. It has made all the difference in the world in my low-light photography.

-- Jim Gumm (jim.gumm@okdhs.org), January 11, 2002.

Red,

I also like to take photo's around food, eating, and DRINKING, especially in Spain. The bars a quite a lively place to photograph. There are many simultaneous emotional (read loud) discussions in the tapas bars, that no one will notice a discreet phtographer, especially if I'm with a bunch of locals. I find the 50 too long for small, intimate, fast moving places. (did I write that right?).

See thread on flash tripod use. They'd probably kick me out of those places if I used either. Or, people, including small children running around would knock my tripod mounted camera to the rubbish covering the floor. Or, mumbling to themselves about the IDIOTA tourist.

35, 1:2.0 works for me; the 1:1.4 might work for you better. The noct. may work with your customer. The benefit you have, that I don't is: you can leave your lens there when your done; me, I gotta haul everything around where ever I go. Got a prizmed 500 C/M stolen out of my hotel room once. No, the front desk can't be trusted with your equipment either; they dropped my bag a few times, or didn't store it correctly. They just don't know what it is they're doing (like airport security; looked through the rangefinder to "ensure" there were no drugs inside).

-- Chris Chen (chrischen@msn.com), January 14, 2002.

I have used the noctilux for awhile now and mostly indoors. I am ready to try something else for awhile now. Why? Lack of depth of field means that I get fewer keepers. It's true that the keepers are unique but it gets frustrating after some time. Another reason that hasnt been mentioned yet is how close you can focus. The noct only goes to 1M. Often the people across the table are at 80cm which means you would have to back up your chair to get the photo. Now I am playing with a 35mm summicron to get the depth of field I want and so I dont have to lean backwards.
Now if you had asked about shooting outdoors at night I would have to say the noct is a must.

-- Russell Brooks (russell@ebrooks.org), January 15, 2002.

I am a novice. I am a novice. That out of the way, how can you use this lens for oudoor landscapes if it has such a shallow DOF? Be kind if you will.

-joshua

-- joshua kessler (jkessler@hotmail.com), January 22, 2002.

Joshua,

You can use the fast lens for landscapes by making the limited depth of field work for the situation... usually to isolate and emphasize. Of course it would get tiring if you did it all of the time, but so would hyper-focused 21mm lens shots. The key is to know when to do it and when to stop the lens down.

Take a look at the work of the photographer below. he like the f/1.0 lens out doors and produces some nice work by exploiting the limited DOF. Notice that at certain distances, the DOF is expanded quite a bit (compared to the tiny sliver when shot close-up), but it is still clear that the main subject is isolated. people in the environment landscapes noct' urban landscapes

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), January 22, 2002.