O.k. I'm leaving for a month to go overseas, but when I get back, I'll be getting puppies. I asked before what kind of dog was best with poultry but the only answers were the large and larger breeds. I'm not sure I can handle training two large dogs so I'd like to go with somthing smaller. Say, the size of a border collie or cocker spaniel. Maybe a little larger or smaller depending on the dog. So, for those of you who have dogs and poultry, let me know what has worked best. I'll be getting them as puppies so that they can be with the poultry from the earliest age possible. Also, any hints on training pups to respect and not eat or chase the chickens and ducks, would be great! Thanks!

-- c.d. (his4ever@mac.com), January 10, 2002

Answers

My advice would be to avoid herding dogs. I have an Australian Shepherd and he tries to herd (read chase) chickens. If someone has training tips, I'm all ears!

-- Debbie in Mo (risingwind@socket.net), January 10, 2002.

Herding dogs (border collie) will more than likely chase poultry.

-- Joe (botaur2@yahoo.com), January 10, 2002.

We have a springer spaniel that gets along with the poultry. We had the adult chickens first so she learned respect. We also never left her alone with them till she was old enough to listen. Our previous dog was a springer lab cross that never chased or ate a chicken in his 13 years. Were getting ducks next month, so we will see how she is with them. She will chase the pheasants in the field and loves to chase butterflys.

-- shari (smillers@snowcrest.net), January 11, 2002.

I have a Border Collie and also have free rangeing poultry. The only time she chases them is if they move into areas they are restricted from. She moves them out and then leaves them alone. If you are willing to take the time, you can condition or train your Border to leave poultry alone.

-- David A. (mncscott@ak.net), January 11, 2002.

We have a sheltie & she thinks the chickens & ducks & geese are her babies-----she watches them & protects them-----she has been with part of them from the time some have came out of the incubator----she is wonderful with them---she is an indoor---out door dog--- When she is outside she watches her flocks!!!! She is wonderful with them---

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), January 11, 2002.

We had a Shetland Sheepdog. He was amazingly good at killing voles, rabbits and, unfortunately, chickens.

-- Nina (ninasinthegarden@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

We have a Brittany spaniel out of hunting parents. He was easy to train, though we never left him alone with poultry until he was a year old. It really helped that he was bred to point: that gave me several seconds to scold him BEFORE he lunged at the birds! Like most spaniel-types, he is eager to please but he was also FASCINATED by the birds, so it did take a year before I trusted him.

Pointing is an offshoot of the hunting instinct, as is herding. Human breeders have simply exaggerated that part of the hunt that suits them. When a wolf first sees game, he freezes and looks over the situation. An exaggerated freeze is the point. He then may circle to improve his chances for a successful hunt. A circle on command with an approach on command is what herding dogs use, and they are bred to circle well, as well as with a desire to please.

Herding dogs are not usually allowed to run loose because they may "herd" someone elses animals, with tragic consequences if someone sees a strange dog chasing their sheep! For that matter, I keep my dog in a fenced yard unless he is with me. Also, while I have taught my dog not to chase MY chickens, I really don't know if he will respect OTHER peoples chickens! After all, he respects the kids rabbit while chasing any wild rabbit he sees in the yard or garden! (GOOD dog!)

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), January 11, 2002.

Hi,

I used austrailian cattle dogs (red heeler and blue heeler) and pembroke welsh corgis on our farms. They all left the free range poultry alone unless I asked them to round them up. The corgis are easy to keep and small. The heelers prefer work and a ride in the pickup over just about anything else. We sent Annie the corgi down to the meadow in the evening to round up the chickens and put them in the house for the night. Sheloved the work and the chickens knew what to do when she came on. She did not ever do that unless we asked her to do it.

One red heeler was an egg thief, the geese used to get after all of the dogs. Anyway, if you choose a herding breed such as the corgis, raise the pups around the poultry and make it clear that the poultry is your "property" and they will learn to please you rather than themselves very quickly. Over the years we had 8 dogs on the place and not one ever mauled one of our animals. One male corgi was a true bull fighter...this little 35 pound guy loaded 2500 pound angus bulls with me. The bulls respected him. The only poultry losses came from the neighbors dalmation. When you train the pups, consistent patience and reassurance with stern correction works every time. When i say stern correction i mean a low stern voice and an intense stare, not a beating. The pups will adopt you as the top dog in their pack and if you apply the pressure to keep top dog status, they will love you and break their hearts to please you. If they have an accident as youngsters can, reprimand them and kennel them up for a while and then go make nice with them. I used to let the pups come along with me when I did chores. They started out quite intimidated by the poultry...I had to protect them from the geese at the beginning. So the poultry became part of their routine and they rarely randomly chased. If your pups are older, take them with you on a lead as you walk among the poultry. If they try to lunge or chase, correct them. They will get the hang of it.

I would not recommend hunting or retreiving breeds just because of their genetic urge to flush and retreive. They will be confused for a while at least. Still, in the right hands I have no doubt that they can be trained to leave your birds alone. If you have an accident where youo have a young dog that kills you need to catch it early, take the dead chicken and tie it around the dogs neck and let her/him carry this carcass around for a few days. They will leave the birds alone afgter that. You can also beat the dog with the dead chicken, but that is not my style. I have read that it works. I know that the dead chicken works because my neighbor did that to his heeler pup and never had another problem. If you don't nip the kill behavior in the bud, you will have trouble for the duration and the dog will probablyneed to be shipped.

Good luck with this, great dogs are a fantastic gift .

Oscar

-- Oscar H.Will III (owill@mail.whittier.edu), January 11, 2002.

I'm thinking most pups have to be really trained to do well with chickens, but some are definitely more trainable than others. We had a little terrier we finally gave away because if a chicken got too close, it was an instant kill.

We had a collie who was very good with the chickens after much training. (She did harm one or two as a pup.) And we had a sheltie who was really good with them. No problems right from the start, but then we had a broody hen on patrol when we brought Shellie home, and that broody hen let her know first time out that the chickens were not to be harrassed.

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

Dogs and chickens don't mix, you can never, ever really trust them not to kill the chickens for some reason known only to the dog, it is their nature to kill an animal that size.

Some folks have luck with individual dogs respecting their poultry, but I have never been that lucky, when it comes time and the chickens run, a dog usually acts like a dog.....

Keep the chickens is a secure house, if the dogs don't get 'em, some other predator will, and you can't beat 'em all!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), January 11, 2002.

I have a Doberman , He sleeps with the chickens when I know there is a predator about. Havn't lost any chickens (free roaming) for four years.

-- Elizabeth Quintana (rockshelter@webtv.com), January 11, 2002.

My standard poodles (bird dogs, 40 to 45 pounds) leave our chickens alone. Once, when I had just gotten the first one (adult rescue, kennel-raised), I heard peeping and saw the dog crossing the yard with tiny little legs sticking out of its mouth. I yelled at the dog to drop it, and she did. The week-old chick had a very small cut on her tail but was otherwise unharmed. I still have the hen. The dog has never offered to chase any other birds of mine.

Her daughter, now three years old, was raised here and is completely trustworthy. This is not to say she can't hunt. She has captured a live pigeon and a live squirrel, both of which were released unharmed on command. She also LOVES to chase wild birds, and will run tirelessly for hours doing so. The girls have killed numerous voles in the pasture. I guess maybe they are so discerning because they are very smart dogs. So there's my plug for poodles.

-- Laura Rae Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), January 12, 2002.

Yes, poodles ARE smart! My father-in-law worked dogs for the army in WWII, and he said they NEVER used the big poodles because they were too smart for the army! He said they were too good at thinking up new angles, so they weren't predictable enough! The army only wanted big dogs that were absolutely PREDICTABLE as well as steady and smart, so they knew exactly where the dog would be at all times even when the handler sent them out of sight! You understand, the poodles were just as obedient as the shepherds, they were just more inclined to take shortcuts to get the work done faster, which doesn't work AT ALL if your handler has worked out the safest method instead of the quickest method----!

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), January 12, 2002.

We have a Welsh Corgi that was given to us when he was two years old. The breed is a herding breed, and he is a great help at night when I go out to round the "birds" up into their coop. He does get a little excited, and sometimes flusters the fowl with his movements, but does not attack or do anything of a predatory nature. I think that if we had raised him from a pup, he could be trained to be a bit more precise when helping.

We introduced our Bassett to our chickens the first day they arrived (day old chicks). After promptly popping one in her mouth and having her nose bopped for it, she has never made another move against any of them. When the chickens were young, our Bassett would actually keep track of them as they played in the yard. I even have pictures of her sitting patiently as chicks jump on her back to explore the world from a higher altitude!

-- ere (eedeen@hotmail.com), January 25, 2002.

One of my all time favorite dogs was a purebred German Shepherd. We had chickens in the city (barely within code) and he knew that they were part of the family. They would run free, even eat out of his dish.

One day, we decided that a little banty rooster needed killing as this was in the city and being so small, wasn't worth butchering (not to mention that killing chickens wasn't our favorite thing) and decided to just give him to our dog to eat. Now, we had given him raw meat throughout his life of 10 years, so we didn't think there was a problem here.

Anyway, once we did that, he decided that it was okay to kill the family chickens as well as the beautiful canaries that we had in cages. He would pull the canaries next to the walls of the cages right through!

Well, no type of discipline would work. We had to put him to sleep. I cried for a couple days, almost like losing a family member. I had always envisioned moving to the country and letting him roam free as I knew he would want. It was never to be. And, it was all our fault. How could we know that what we did would end like this?

Moral of the story: Train your dog early and don't give him/her a reason to alter that training.

-- HV (veggie@ourplace.com), January 25, 2002.