Copy of a posting from a Leica dealer on the Leica-Users:

Hi LUGGERS!

Well, the crazyness has begun, the new Leica M7 will be here within the next eight weeks and the priority list has started. The info I have is: "similar to M6 but with Aperture priority & higher shutterspeed." Price is around $2595.00...give or take $100.00 either way...

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), January 11, 2002

Answers

Unh huh....

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), January 11, 2002.

I'm with Jack... I'm not swallowing this until it's a reality.

But if/when it does become real, I'm buying two.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), January 11, 2002.

Isn't April 1st a little while from now? :-)

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), January 11, 2002.

Here's my questions and predictions based on past performance:

How long do you think it will take before a rebate is offered on it?

What are the odds that the first several hundred cameras will eat batteries or have a problem with the shutter, etc? (I tip my hat to the brave souls who have to be the first on their block to order one)

How long before a black paint and other special editions show up?

All kidding aside, I do hope it is a winner and still has the look and feel of a Leica M and does well in the market place. I hope it isn't any bigger/heavier than the current M6. I may even have to take a look at one myself, as my CLE is getting pretty old and acting quirky from time to time.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), January 11, 2002.

I wish they'd at least replace the advance lever with the M3/M2 style lever. And engrave the top plate with the Leica script. Loose the red leica dot on the front too. Is that too much to ask? *sigh* ..Faster shutter speed? oh, goodie, something to be smile about.

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), January 11, 2002.

I'll take the bait.

The new M7 looks like the old M5. Current devotees raise a hue and cry. The new shutter is nosier and instead of having the seductive sound of silk tearing, it has the raucous roar of kitchen aluminium foil ripping. Leica aficionados hate it.

I agree with Andrew. It eats batteries like pop corn, has a viewfinder like the Hexar RF, and a film-back that opens the 'right' way, much to the chagrin of the Leica crowd.

All in all, the Leica traditionalists will reject it, sales plummet, the M7 is discontinued after two years, and if not for Panasonic and its digital Leica (see other thread), Solms would nearly be bankrupted by this fiasco. Panasonic buys Leica, lens production moves over to Japan a la Contax, Leica acolytes claim that it is not what it used to be, Japanese manufactured lenses are just not the same, used prices go through the roof, and... and...

Cold chills. I need to wake up from this nightmare. Will I get pie in my face?

-- Erik X (xx@xx.com), January 11, 2002.

God, I hope so. For the last 50 years I've bought a new Leica about every decade, and I'm getting overdue.

-- (bmitch@home.com), January 11, 2002.

I passed on the M6-TTL, the different viewfinder magnifications, and the Hexar-RF. To give you an idea of its vintage, my M6 says "Wetzlar" on it. But I'll look over the new M camera (? M7 or ? M6-AE) when it comes out. I'm especially interested to know if it has a flash sync speed faster than the current 1/50 sec.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), January 11, 2002.

Bring back Oskar!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 11, 2002.

Sorry! - Oscar.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 11, 2002.

P L E A S E !!! LEICA - have a look at the thread "For Leica M USERs only..."

...before it's too late...

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 11, 2002.

How about a thread "For Leica M 6 users only..." or, as far as I'm concerned "For Leica M 6 Classicists only..." or "For Leica M 6 TTL users only..."

Its now too EARLY...

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), January 11, 2002.

Another Leica-User writes:

Reed's Cameras is taking $500 deposits if you have to be first in line. They called it an M7A, and said it would look like an M6 TTL with an "A" on the shutterspeed dial.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), January 11, 2002.

Giles et al -- Sorry, but if it is supposed to be here in 8 weeks it is already too late, way too late!

But don't hold you breath anyway... We are soon to find out it hhas been built via a joint-venture with Voightlander/Cosina (which of course they paid handsomely to be able to place the Leica name on it).

And, I'll go one step further -- next year, the M6TTL will be manufactured in Japan by V/C to Solms specs. Lenses too! I hear a ka- ching ka-ching on prices for the last of the REAL Leica M gear (Solms or Wetzlar, it won't matter)!

;) Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), January 11, 2002.

Sorry Giles. Looks like you are in the minority. Why should Leica go back to 1950s-60s technology (M2/M3) when their new M6 AE model will sport the latest technology from the mid 70s (? early 80s)?

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), January 11, 2002.

Ha Ha! No, I don't dispute that Leica have to move with the times in refining (?) or electrifing (!) the M but they MUST continue to offer a mechanical model as per the "old days".

Enough people seemed to agree on the "For M users only..." thread that a rebuilt M2/M4 would be desirable so all I say is give us a choice - the traditional and the modern.

As I meant in the "...before it's too late..." post above and I think Jack amongst others also is indicating, Leica is the last bastion of proper metal mechanical 35 mm cameras - if the AE electronic M7 is to eventually replace the M6 then that is the slippery slope to the end of 70+ years of Leitz history.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 11, 2002.

"A day late and a dollar short"--or maybe "a year late and $1000 too much". The Hexar RF's already in my bag. I think I might let at least a couple thousand customers take cuts in front of me in line for the M7. The R8 came out in 1996 and they still have problems...but at least they're about $700 cheaper now.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

As a famous American philosopher (Yogi Berra) once said: "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be."

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), January 11, 2002.

Giles,

I disagree,

If the new M7 is an all electronics wunderbar extravaganza just imagine how much your M6 TTL will be worth in a few years!

I can just hear it now... LUG members referring to the M6 TTL as "the last great M camera!"..." the M4 of the 90s".

;-)

-- John Chan (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), January 11, 2002.

Sparkie,

The word is LOSE, not LOOSE. If something is 'loose', it is 'not tight', which means it might fall off, but that is what you want the Red Dot to do.

However what we all want is for Leitz to LOSE the great big bright scarlet 'look at me' DOT. A bit of black electric insulating tape will do wonders. Cut a little circle and 'poof' no RED DOT.

-- Ian MacEachern (iwmac@sympatico.ca), January 11, 2002.

"What are the odds that the first several hundred cameras will eat batteries or have a problem with the shutter, etc?"

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Leica may have wonderful optical and mechnical engineers - but it does seem to me that they have real trouble getting two electrons to go through the same wire at the same time.

My rep said (3 months ago) "An AE shutter in the existing M6 body." We shall see.

If the darn thing actually works I might "super-Hexarize" one with the Motor-M and a .72/.85 finder.

Whether we like the new bod or not, I wish Solms profitability and success.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), January 12, 2002.

Me and my big mouth - in the recent wish-list thread I asked Leica to add something to the TTL shutter dial to make it more stylish.

And they gave me an "A".

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), January 12, 2002.

"A" for Arrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 12, 2002.

From what I understand the new M camera will be the current M6TTL with aperture priority electronics. Eveything else remains the same - cloth shutter.....everything. A selenoid controls the shutter setting. That's it.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), January 12, 2002.

Whatever it is, I'm not about to buy it, but it does accur to me that an AE body the current lightmeter isn't going to be very useful.

While the retro toy brigade whine about innovation of any sort, my whinge is that this body is almost certainly not going to offer any more useful functionality than the existing M6.

I suspect Leica would have had more auccess if they had decided to stop innovation at the M4, with a range of customisation options, such as viewfinder mag, black paint and so on. Then they would have been blatant jewelry and marketed themselves as such.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), January 12, 2002.

The current cloth shutter is definitely capable of being set to a faster shutter speed, but whether even an electronic control can assure its accuracy is questionable...we'll see. I agree with Rob, unless the new body has an autoexposure "lock" function, it will be a problem. The Hexar has both AE and AE-LOCK, and I have only used the non-locking setting with the Visoflex. Even if the AE is not used, it will be nice if the manuall-set shutter speeds are controlled electronically. For shooting slide film, a little more consistency in the timing wouldn't hurt. However if the M7 costs $2500 and another $500 for a winder, that's like 3 Hexar bodies. To buy the Leica you'd really have to do a lot of rationalizing to not admit being a brand-snob. And then, to *tape over* the Leica logo!

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 12, 2002.

Jay wrote: "I agree with Rob (Appleby), unless the new body has an autoexposure "lock" function, it will be a problem."

The M6TTL already has AE lock, it just doesn't have AE. Take a meter reading with an M6TTL, press the shutter release down partially and point the camera at a different brightness area. The exposure remains locked. This feature obviously is useless on the M6TTL, but certainly showed was coming. Apparently the exposure mechanism in the M6TTL is basically the same circuit as in the R8, which, of course, has AE lock. An evaluative meter in the new rangefinder might be a nice touch, but I wonder if we'll even see a flash sync higher than 1/125.

-- Robert Schneider (rolopix@yahoo.com), January 12, 2002.

I don't recall ever seeing a flash sync on a cloth shutter higher than 1/90 second, and 1/60 is the most common.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), January 12, 2002.

I welcome this rumour/announcement of the M camera as very good news. If we can use a higher flash sync speed, we will be able to use the M lenses and cameras more generally and rely less on modern and heavy SLRs.

I do not worry about the future of the current M6 TTL; it will be offered as long as there is demand for it. Remember that the M4-P was offered alongside the M6 in the mid-80s. And it has been retired because of the lack of demand. The M6 has been one of the most popular M camera, being the second most produced after the M3. And that in a time of super sophisticated cameras.

As for the adoration for the classics M cameras as the M3/2/4, I still suspect that it is practised by people who do not take many pictures. Here in Montreal, I do encounter on a regular basis Leica M photographers and they all use M6s. The meter is so convenient. I have not seen in a very good while someone on the street using a "classic from the fifties or sixties" M. I guess that most of them are now being too cherished by their owners to see some light....

-- Pierre Charbonneau (charbonneaup@videotron.ca), January 12, 2002.

Here in Nashville I've never seen anyone using an M6. The only time I spotted another Leica user in action, he was using one of the old IIIs (not sure which variety). And my old M3s are used a lot, often in hostile conditions.

I guess that the people with new M6s have them stored safely on a shelf at home. : )

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), January 12, 2002.

It sounds like an exciting development to me and I congratulate Leica for continuing to update the M series!

I remember hearing a lot of skepticism when the M6 was first introduced too and that turned out to be a very useful camera, at least for my purposes. I'll wait to see this new model first before deciding if its an improvement over the current model M6TTL, or not.

-- Ken Prager (pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), January 13, 2002.

Additional rumor: there will be a new flash that syncs at ANY shutter speed - similar to the one for the Olympus OM-3/4. It fires off a continuous burst of flashes over the period any part of the film is uncovered (e.g 1/50th second for the M) so that as the slit for 1/ 1000th (or any other shutter speed) crosses the film plane all parts of the film get equally exposed. Flash exposure varies with the shutter speed, just as if it were ambient light - but "action-stopping" ability is determined by the shutter speed, NOT the flash.

Seem to me Canon has one of these, too. (??)

It would seem possible that this would work with older Ms as well - IF it just consists of a "FP" switch on the flash so that it creates the burst using any source to close the sync circuit. But not if it requires a dedicated signal from the M(whatever it is).

(BTW I got this off the LUG, so don't feed it back to them as 'confirmation' of their own rumor!)

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), January 13, 2002.

Andy. Several companies have provided a similar system to the original Olympus "full synchro-flash" which, as you describe, gives multiple flash pulses to allow flash throughout the period in which the shutter slit is crossing the film window. I think Minolta and Canon (? others) also offer this. The full-synchro capability is a function of the flash unit rather than the camera shutter, so it should be doable with the Leica cloth focal plane shutter mechanism as is, with its 1/50 flash sync speed.

The availability of this system for Leica M would definitely be an improvement! The major down-side of this system is that the flash output is limiting, so the effective GN will be small at the faster shutter speeds. But if Leica gives us this capability with the M system, they will have done a service for us flash users.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), January 13, 2002.

Yeh, got me Ian. I must hav been tired. But the end result of a 'Loose' dot like you say would hav dropped off eventually. Same desired outcome! I never thought of using tap to cover up the dot. Wouldn't it leave a gooey mess?

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), January 14, 2002.

Sparkie, this sounds like a lot of hassle but it works:

Buy a set of self adhesive labels (WH Smiths etc) - the white round type that come in many sizes (one particular common size covers the dot perfectly), lay a sheet of labels on the floor and spray with a couple of coats of satin black aerosol paint from Homebase etc.

They are easy to stick/un-stick, match the black chrome perfectly and if it gets damaged just stick another on!

This is for the M4-2/P "flat" dot.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 14, 2002.

I agree with Andrew, I will be glad if the camera has AE as my CLE has been through the wars and ready for replacement. I dont sit in a dark room firing the shutter listenting to how quite it is, I prefer to take pictures with it, even though the CLE shutter is definately NOT loud. Leica needs to attract more users to survive not live off exisiting ones, if it doesnt it wont ever have the funds to expand and simply stagnate. For people like Giles there will be plenty of commemorative specials to keep you happy for 20years more but alot of us need camera bodies at least up to 80's standards.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@homail.com), January 16, 2002.

"For people like Giles there will be plenty of commemorative specials"

Hmmm? The day I can afford a new commemorative Leica is not near! I use a battered old M2 and a bargain buy M4-P!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 16, 2002.

Giles,

Thanks for the tip. How about if you have chrome body. I guess I'll be heading to a automotive shop loking for a silver can of spray. Or to WH Smith for one of those silver pens. heh

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), January 16, 2002.